T61 Unstable

I got my T61 in October 2007. Running Vista. Its been ok, BUT In the past 6 months I've had to run rescue and recovery and totally start from scratch. (I then figured out Quick Recovery, which just replaces the operating system and keeps old files).

The crashes occur when I am using the machine on my lap, on the couch, etc. In other words, it crashes when the computer is on an unstable surface and is subject to slight movement. (No, i'm not using the machine on roller coasters or anything like that)

I am out of warranty and running rescue and recovery every few days is getting annoying. I'm also afraid that this thing crashes on the way to an important meeting/presentation.

What should I do?

I'm assuming its a motherboard problem.
Eric

 

hmmm... could be the hdd. did you replace your HDD with WD model? or any HDD with built-in movement sensor?

or broken HDD on its last legs might also has its problem exagurated when it received movements.

or heat problem. cooling vents might get obstructed by you blocking the vents.

or... the t61 with nvidia G92 based GPU is reported to have a defect; in which the GPU chip can seperate from its electrical packaging board under thermal cycling stress.

 

The Nvidia Quadro series was never affected by the thermal material defect, nor is the T61 susceptible to motherboard flex as it is reinforced with a roll cage.

I would try removing the HD Active Protection software before trying anything further. It is likely an HD issue, as wobble suggested above.

 

I have just disabled ThinkVantage Active Protection System.

Is that what you meant BOG?

Right now the machine is on my desk, and works fine. I'll let you know what happens when it experiences turbulence.

Eric

 

Yes, that is the software I was referring to. Hopefully the issue is solved as simply as that, although experience has taught me not to be so sure...

 

actually it has, the GPU does have issues but lenovo has not offically declared this. HP and Dell have offered extended warranties on several nvidia gpus including the quadro's. I personally have had to deal with this on one of my 7662s. Another friend (with an HP) had to get a mobo swap.

this is nvidia's fault (they admit it in the notice to shareholders and have set millions aside to deal with the issue) but Lenovo has been terrible at dealing with out of warranty machines.


however i doubt the OP's problem is gpu related. I agree, sounds like the hard drive

 

October 2007? Are you sure you are out of warranty? Did you go to the Lenovo site and check the warranty using your serial number?

Do you have a cat? This is not a stupid question. Cat hair is like kryptonite. And like the animal, it goes where it doesn't belong. And, under the right circumstances it is conductive.

If you have the expertise, it might be worth your while to do a thorough service of the laptop (that means clean it.) Never blow into the vents--it just moves the dreck around. You have to do the deal properly. It doesn't have to be cat hair--dust is conductive and it doesn't take much (if it's in the right place) to cause data corruption and weird problems. If you do not have the expertise--do not disassemble your laptop.

I know that it is a real pain to find someone who is actually talented in servicing laptops--qualifications don't mean much; a history of success is more important. Laptops take patience, gentleness and attention to detail.

While it is likely that your hard drive is sick, and that you should back everything up and make sure you have installation media--I strongly suggest that you have a legitimate service performed at the same time you replace your hard drive. Especially if you have any critters in your house with fluffy short fur or you use the laptop in places which may have dust. You only have to empty that electric pencil-sharpener ONCE near a running laptop to have weird things start to happen.

I'm kind of iffy on turning off hard drive protection myself.

Eric

PS: Another thought on the matter: A desktop with that symptom of OS corruption (usually an E-Machine or Gateway,) would immediately have the PSU replaced, a CRC check on the files in both partitions and fingers would be crossed while checkdisk was run--with the backup and installation media in hand. (To be safe, I would usually write zeros to the drive using the utility from the drive manufacturer to remap bad sectors, then format and do a clean rebuild of both the recovery and service partitions on the drive.)

Make sure that the fit of the battery is firm. Run the laptop on just the battery, then just the external power supply with the battery out of the unit to be sure that the power port connection is nice and consistent. Do these things while on the couch and jiggling your foot.

If everything is tight, and you can't get the laptop to crash by jiggling your foot with it on your lap--you are probably right; the hard drive isn't getting consistent power. That can be the fault of the drive--or--the capacitors and controls in power section of the mother board (planar)--or--cat fur (or conductive dust.) **In rare cases, it can be the memory, but generally the drivers and buffers for the hard drive are written to the same general address range and the crashes would be more consistent.

Oh, and if you do get it serviced, and you happen to own a cat--be sure to tell the technician that you have a cat.

 

Thanks for the reply. I do not have a cat, but I do live in New York City and leave my windows open all the time so I do tend to have a dusty apartment.

I do not have expertise to do a service on my laptop. Where is the best place to have this done (service center etc?) and how much does it cost?

Everything after your "PS" is kind of over my head.

Things seem to be working fine since i turned HD protection off. We'll see though.

Confirmed that I'm out of warranty.

 

Things started acting up again while sitting on my couch. The system32 file opens after i restarted computer. it wont close after trying to close it numerous times. This has happened in the past, and is consistent with symptoms i've seen pre-crashing.

NOW what? Do i just buy a new computer? How do I get this fixed?

 

You really have two options at this point:

1) Sell it as is; you could recover a decent fraction of it's cost toward your next laptop.

2) Send it in for repair to Lenovo and hope that they don't replace any expensive parts (such as the motherboard).

 

The word "Laptop" is an oxymoron--that is to say that the exact opposite is closer to the truth than a straight-forward definition of the word. You never should actually use the laptop in your lap--Get one of those TV-Trays and use that as a portable desk for your Thinkpad.

The stuff after the "PS" is directly related to a person who runs the laptop on their lap and absent-mindedly jiggles their foot. (Vibration is a problem with any powered device.)

If the battery isn't really tight--and the connections to the battery aren't really tight--jiggling your foot will cause momentary disconnection to the battery. The same is true for the power port connection to the AC-Adapter. Vibration will loosen the connections--literally wear them out.

A foot-jiggler can cause rapid switching between the battery and AC-Adapter power and interupt the power to the computer and hard drive. There is a tiny amount of power stored on the motherboard itself--but that will be sufficient only to make it almost impossible to diagnose the problem.

If the power is not consistent, the files will be corrupted on the hard drive and in the running programs in memory.

That is why I wanted you to TRY to make it crash by jiggling your foot with only the battery or AC-Adapter running the laptop. The solution to the problem could be as simple as NEVER RUNNING YOUR LAPTOP ON YOUR LAP.

If things have gotten goofy with the laptop--chances are that the filesystem/registry on the hard drive has become corrupted.

Until you are absolutely positive that your own actions are not interfering with the operation of the laptop--it is not a good idea to start buying parts or new computers.

Post Script: As you might guess, I have run into cat-related problems--and had a person with a similar problem as yours. It was the owner of the business who spotted the foot-jiggle when they were both seated and talking with one another. It was the third return for service, the second hard drive, and the fourth reinstallation on that laptop. Good techs are part detective.

 

I certainly am the "but for" cause of the problem. But for me taking my laptop to my couch, the issue would never happen. It would just sit over the fan system I have on my desk. Idle.

However, this doesn't necessarily mean that I'm the problem. Any laptop should be able to endure some movement. It is made to be portable.

i can tell you with confidence that the 6 foot walk from my room to my couch, and the 2-3 seconds i take to set the laptop on my coffee table is not an unreasonable amount of movement. Any laptop should be able to endure that journey.

Yes i do set it on my lap for a few minutes at a time, and probably put it back on the coffee table, then back on my lap. I can assure you that I'm gentle with it. Again, any laptop should be able to sustain these regular movements.

I'm just confused was to what I should do about it.

Note: I never use AC power when in the couch, usually just battery.

 

When I have a laptop in for service, it is never moved when it is running. If I am going to move it--even from one bench to another--I suspend/shut-it-down.

In a perfect world, one could use a laptop whilst performing "Riverdance" and having Parkinson's disease--on amphetamines--but this isn't a perfect world.