T61 Video Failure...options?

I've had my T61 for about 1.5 years now and the video just recently went out. I called Lenovo and they said it was the LCD but it's not. I'm fairly certain it's the Nvidia discrete graphics. I have the 14.1" model with Nvidia.

Basically, the computer still loads up and works except there is no picture on the LCD. I have been able to get it working slightly on an external monitor in safe mode, but that's it (and the picture is slightly scrambled).

Since it is out of warranty, I have to look at repair options or a new laptop. I've been reading about the problems with Nvidia graphics cards, so I'm slightly skeptical about repairing the thing if it might die again anyways. I was quoted from laptopservice.com for $399 to replace the systemboard with the graphics...which seems like a good price. However, it's a refurb board and they don't say if it has a new video card or not (since I hear that Nvidia solved their problem with new boards).

Should I risk getting the thing repaired for $400 or just look at getting a new laptop all together? The thing was working fine otherwise. Also, does anyone have any experience with laptopservice.com? Good work? Any other options to consider out there? Anyone else have this problem?

 

Hard to say. You can probably sell your notebook for parts on eBay and add that to what you're going to spend on the repair. You could probably get a low speced R series from the Outlet, which would give you a warranty. I've no experience with laptopservice.com. You can buy a board too and do it yourself for less. In addition to eBay, you might want to post this in the Marketplace forum on ThinkPads. Someone there may have a board for less.

 

I've thought about replacing it myself, is it fairly easy?

The one thing I'm worried about is purchasing a systemboard that might not be the same as the one that came with the unit. For instance, can I buy the model for the T61p and will that work with all my components in the T61? Do I have to get the part that is listed on Lenovo's website?

Thanks for your help

 

I hope we can keep this thread alive because I'm am bristling about this whole issue.

I bought a T61 with the 140M graphics card In Sept. 07 and just yesterday the graphic card stopped working. Then I read about this whole fiasco with Nivdia and called Lenovo about it, they flatly refused to do anything.

The call went something like this,
1. I call up and tell them about my problem, ask the rep if they've had anyone else with issues like this, he says no.
2. I then bring up the fact that Nvidia has admitted the error and Dell/HP are extending the warranty on their laptops with the G84/86m cores.
3. He then backtracks and states they are aware of the issue but are not extending any warranty on these notebooks.

I don't care if it's Nvidia or Lenovo or Santa Clauses fault, seems to me like we were sold laptops with defective parts and are getting stuck with the bill.

Thanks for letting me rant, I still feel like tossing my $1500 brick off the roof though.

 

Which notebook do you have?

 

You could find a used T61/R61 board (not sure if those are interchangeable) that corresponds to your form factor machine (4:3 or 16:10)
Reason I went for integrated graphics on my T61 was to avoid this kind of trouble, just like in the T4x series with the ATi cards being disoldered from the board.

 

same problem here on a 7662 t61 widescreen. Lenovo was no help since I was outside the warranty period (even though I provided proof there was an nvidia defect/recall)

My credit card covered it and I got a new t400. then I spent $100(+ship) to get a replacement board with the intel gfx and swapped it out myself.

I would have probably filed a BBB complaint with a copy of the nvidia 8k showing the defect if my visa card had not covered it.

good luck

 

Batman I have the same laptop as you

T61: 7662-CTO: 14.1", T7500 (2x 2.2ghz), 4GB, Nvidia 140M.

I'm going back through our records, if this was put on the company card it may be covered like yours was, thanks for the tip on that.

Also, I did file a complaint with the BBB on this. We'll see where that goes from here, I'll keep the board posted.

 

I don't think it's the video card as it works with the external monitor....LCDs have a component that is called an inverter that is the most likely to fail and it's "easily" replaced. I woudn't suggest trying to fix it yourself but take it some place where it can be repaired by someone qualified (I just fried my notebook trying to fix a video problem), also a problem with the motherboard it's not easy to diagnose. I know my way around desktops but a notebook it's a whole different story.

 

the op says the picture is scrambled (even on external lcd) so there is a good chance its the gpu. mine was scrambled as well and the colors would bleed all over the place. I could get a somewhat stable image via safe mode and a very low resolution. fairly certain that this is the nvidia issue

 

so batman, did you get working your T61 with the GMAx3100 gfx then?s

 

yup, replaced it using the guides at lenovo support. pretty easy actually (assuming you have some experience). I used a motherboard from the 7661 (i forgot the exact part number)

the only problem is that the board was not flashed with a serial number or machine type (bought off ebay). So the only way I can get system update to work is via a registry hack

I first thought my CC company would want the old unit back, but they said they didnt. so i figured 100 is worth it vs parting it out

 

I've been doing some analysis by using safe mode and the external monitor. I uninstalled Nvidia Driver and got the thing to load in non-safe mode using the Windows graphics driver. I can even put the external monitor in 1280x1024 (16 bit). In 32-bit, there are serious blue lines up and down the picture, but not in 16-bit. I'm actually on the laptop right now.

The LCD still does not engage. I still think it's a video card issue and I'm fairly certain it's the memory since the card seems to work in some formats (likely those that do not attempt to use the onboard memory.

However, does anyone have any other opinions? I was going to buy a new motherboard ($300) and put it in myself. I'm going with the same one that came with the machine but I plan to run to fan 24/7 to keep it cool. The motherboard model that came with this one is $300. I was told to get the specific motherboard part that fits my Laptop (by Lenovo). The guy said specifically (several times) to get one designed for my screen size. However, I'm curious if I can get a different part that is designed for a T61 14.1" but maybe not my specific model. Any thoughts?

Hopefully I'll get to this sometime between work and grad school.

 

300 bucks for a MoBo is a lot to ask, I'd rather sell the laptop and buy a new one from the outlet IMO.

Good luck and wait for better answers

 

this might sound a bit out there but you could buy the msi barebones MS1651 off of ebay for 350. switch your processor into it memory and hard drive. now you spent 50 dollars less and you upgraded your gpu to a 9600gt.

 

I'm guessing that the MSI board does not fix the Lenovo parts.

I had thought about buying a new laptop but I'm not sure what I could get for my laptop. If I could get $300 out of this one, I'd consider it. Does anyone think this is possible?

What if I stripped it for parts? Could i get $300 to $500?

 

call up tech support and ask for a list of compatible motherboards to your machine type. then scour ebay for a deal or try a 3rd party.

I dont think 300 is worth it for just a new mobo. i am sure you can find a better deal

 

Hey all. Couple of things tonight:

1. Mikhail, what appleusr is referring to is stripping out the useable parts from the T61 (CPU, Mem, HD, Optical?) to an MSI barebones. It will work as the MSI has its own Motherboard/Video card that you plug your T61 parts into (like swapping parts in a desktop).

2. I RECEIVED A CALL FROM LENOVO!!! after filing my Better Business complaint against them Sunday. Unfortunately the guy caught me at a bad time (at a different building working on a computer) so I have to get him the model/serial# of my machine tomorrow.

However it sounds like they are probably going to fix it free of charge and possibly let me put it back under maintenace if I want to pay for it. I'll let everyone know for sure tomorrow.

Moral of story, if Lenovo is refusing to fix your defective Nvidia card, file a complaint with the BBB and demand a resolution from them. HP/Dell are already doing this without all the hassle!

 

Man, I've read several posts where T61 users have had troubles with the Nvidia NVS 140M card, and it's freaking me out, I mean, this sort of things put thoughts in your head...

 

so you guys all have the wide screen model ?

cause I have no problems with mine, and I run it overclocked big time .. like 650/950 where the stock was 400/600 MHz for core/memory. However, I use TPFanControl to speed up the fan and not let the GPU go over 72 deg C.

bought it Sept 2007 as well, no warranty

but I use external monitor almost all the time (like today I used the laptop off the external monitor for 1 hour, and the last time I did that was like a month ago)

 

actually its rather funny. My T61 (the one I bought for myself) is overclocked heavily and runs just fine. I modded it to run cooler via undervolting, bending the clips to apply more pressure and applying OCZ freeze.

THAT t61 is still fine. I bought another for my cousin which did die that was purely stock. The stock t61 is the one that died on me. So my cousin now has my OC'd t61 and I got a new t400. Our fixed t61 (with the replaced mobo) is now the community pc

 

Glad to hear it. I was part of the unlucky group that had to wait 1.5 months for our t61s. After I filed a BBB complaint, I got an extra free battery, extra 5% off and put on the top of the shipment list (if there is one - not sure)

Lenovo does respond well to BBB complaints

 

uhh .. what is BBB ?

 

better business bureau

 

I filed a complaint today. I asked for a free repair or a credit toward a new laptop. I will also update the thread if I hear back from Lenovo. I forgot to write down the claim number though, so hopefully BBB sends it to me.

On the other hand, if Lenovo does not respond, I might just buy a T400 and keep the T61 until I find a cheap motherboard deal (there is seriously very little out there for less than $300). If I ever do fix it, maybe I'll just have two laptops or sell one of them. You can never have too many computers, right? It'll be a good tech experience either way.

 

I'm wondering if I should undervolt the CPU and overclock the GPU. Or I'm just being paranoic?

Sanchez, good luck solving your problem, maybe the BBB forces _Lenovo to address your MoBo issue.

If you want to consider another laptop, you also can take a look at the Dell E6400, seems to be a solid laptop and they are offering good discount coupons for their outlet products.

 

I would do whatever it takes to keep it cool if I didnt have a warranty to cover me (either with lenovo or CC company)

 

All,

I'd like to share a couple thoughts...

While some of the failures discussed in this thread may indeed be related to the video subsystem, it does not necessarily mean it's the GPU itself, nor that even a GPU failure is due to the same root cause. When these kinds of issues become well publicized, there is an understandable tendancy for everyone that has a system based on one of these nvidia GPUs to be concerned and look to associate any failure with the known issue.

While we provide coverage in accordance with the terms and conditions of the product warranty, some customers may have extenuating circumstances and we do have exception processes to review these and take actions as appropriate.

Filing a complaint through the BBB is way to register a formal complaint against a company, but this is sometimes a bit misunderstood. Generally, the BBB is there to provide advocacy to ensure a company responds to it's customers, but does not necessarily mean that the response must be an affirmative one. In the kinds of cases above, it is not necessary to go through the BBB as an intermediary - there are existing escalation paths through the company which reach the same team that handles all the BBB complaints.

Before going to the BBB, I would suggest that you escalate your issue either through sales, or service channels as most relevant to your particular issue - (I.e. product delivery, credits, incorrect config, billing dispute, etc, etc = sales, while warranty repair, product quality concerns, etc = service)

After making reasonable attempts to get your issue resolved through these normal channels, you can request that a formal complaint be opened on your behalf. Please keep in mind that these are for exceptions and should be a reasonable last resort in working directly through the company.

You can also reach me by PM here and on the Lenovo forum at http://forums.lenovo.com if you need help getting your situation reviewed.

Best regards,

Mark

 

Thanks Mark!

 

Hi -- I just want to add my machine to the list. I've got a 15.4 R-61 with the Nvidia 140 discreet graphics chip. The machine had been running hot. And this past Saturday, in the middle of a web browsing session, the display first turned purple (as if the green signal had died,) and then froze, shut off, and rebooted.

The machine worked intermittently for the next 24 hours, then froze again (following the color shift.)

And now, it boots into a gray screen, with a darker horizontal bar to the right of center, and a barely visible "snow" of red and and blue lines.

Underneath this, I can hear the machine still booting up and entering vista.

I'm only writing all this for the record -- because it seems to me that if this GPU is bad, we're going to start seeing a lot of them fail over the next few months.

 

Hi guys,
you scare me, i have my R61 with nvs 140m just almost one year. So far have no problems, but this all is pretty crap! If the problem *is* real, lenovo should recognize it and address it!
Out of curiosity: what is the temperature of your gpu core - you can find it in nvidia panel? Mine is between 50-55 degrees Celsia. I run mostly linux on machine.

 

This has happened to me, as well. It started a few weeks ago, while I was web browsing. The screen colors went all glitchy for a moment, and then the computer shut down. At the time, I ignored it, thinking it to be just some random graphic crash. It happened once more upon starting up, but then went away for a few days.

Then about a week ago, the problem came back suddenly. I had been using my computer all morning without a problem, but coming back to it later that day, the screen would only display a bunch of messed up colors. Like others have posted here, you can tell the system is still booting and running in some fashion in the background. I've even tried booting into the bios and resetting everything to default values through looking up the key commands. But that's the problem, because I've had graphical issues with other computers before, but this occurs at the very second of bootup, before even the Lenovo logo is displayed. That made it immediately obvious that it wasn't a simple driver issue.

My next instinct was to plug in my external monitor and see if it was the LCD itself. The same problem tranferred over to that display, too.

You have to admit, it's hard not to blame the faulty Nvidia GPUs on this one, considering the outright admittance of both Nvidia and other laptop manufacturers. I hadn't even used my graphics card for anything intense since I upgraded my desktop and stopped pretty much any form of gaming on my laptop. Its primary use for probably over a year now has been basically web browsing and a little video watching.

And of course, my warranty is up. The problem at least outlasted that. It's situations like these that make me wary enough to consider purchasing a longer warranty, but who is really expecting catastrophic failure of their product that has worked without a hitch for over a year?

All I know is that there is a very good chance that I threw $1500 down the toilet a year and a half ago.

 

Yup, sorry I read that on the external monitor was working fine.

 

Hi, I haven't posted here for a while, but I think that I am having a similar problem as well, except that in my case using an external monitor works fine.

My laptop has had problems in the past as well, mainly due to the cpu fan and it not working, it seems to work now though.

As for the current problem, one day my laptop screen did not work, the bios screen wouldn't even show up when i boot up my laptop. I tried using an external monitor and that works fine. I noticed that my laptop wont even detect the laptop monitor and will only recognize the external monitor on bootup.
I also noticed that after I closed the lid on my laptop and opened it, my laptop would finally detect the laptop display and turn on the backlight but nothing else would show. It would detect it as generic non Pnp monitor and with the max resolution set to 1024*768, when it should be 1440*900.

I was wondering if any of you could help me fix this problem or if I should just buy another laptop and use this laptop as basically a desktop.

 

Oh sure, just come and see us when you've got a problem, eh? My money is on the board, not the screen, but it's hard to diagnose over the internet. There's two monitor ports on the board - one internal and one external. One can work while the other does not, which is my guess as to why your internal screen doesn't work. That's not to say it couldn't be something else. The cable is probably the next best option. Your choices would be - 1) sell it for parts. I've no idea of the value. 2) Replace the board. I'd recommend one without the nVidia card, but they're not cheap. Maybe you could post over in the marketplace forums on ThinkPads.com. Maybe someone has one on the cheap. 3) Use it as a desktop. I guess it would depend on your situation as to your best option.

 

Ok thanks, i was hoping that it might be more of a non-hardware issue, but it seems like maybe the board is the problem, possibly as a result of the cpu getting too hot and maybe causing something to malfunction? because like I said for a while my laptop cpu fan wasn't working well, it was making all sorts of strange scrapping noises.
Thanks again

 

I have a t61 with what sounds like the exact same problem. 2 months out of warranty the screen stopped working. Shawn at Levovo service was very insistent that it could only be the screen because there were no other parts that could cause this problem. The repair quoted was 575 (in advance only) and there was no talking about it. I happen to be pretty good technically so I went ahead and replaced my screen and inverted board. Guess what, that’s not the problem. Now it is suspected that is is the nvda on the motherboard needs to be replaced, I did call lenove back to discuss this and when I asked if this problem could have had something to do with all the OVERHEATING service tickets i created when the machine was actually under warranty, do you want to know what happened. Well here is what happened, HE said, SiR, the unit is out of warranty, and he hung up on me.
I think it is so nice of you Mark to come on here and try to give information about talking to supervisors and try to maybe effect some positive thoughts. But I must say, that from my perspective, This t61 was sold to me DEFECTIVE. I complained during the warranty and was stalled from doing anything by lenove service, then as soon as the warranty expires, no more staling, just send in your 575.00 and maybe we can fix. So mark, forgive me if a sound a bit harsh. But based on this experience I will Never EVER purchase another lenove produced. Further, It will give me much personal satisfaction every time I convince a business leader that Lenove is the wrong company to be doing business with if you need good customer service, I'm not dismissing your advise to take the complaint farther within lenove, but honestly, what do i get for that. Maybe if I'm lucky i could get exactly what I was supposed to get in the first place and have my laptop repaired under warranty instead of being convinced to wait until it expires. And another thing, I have already had 4 conversations with Lenove the last one ending with a hang up. At this point I believe I can chose to report this to any agency I want to, consumer protection, bbb, Local radio and tv, newspaper and magazines are always looking for human interest stories about how large corporations promise everything and deliver nothing in the way of service, Me my self will never ever own another Lenovo product. I have owned 5 apples and 2 dells and am now so sorry I tried lenove i just can not begin to tell you. And to anyone reading, My experience with the Lenove has been so bad that I would personally recommend that to think twice, and then again, about ever doing business with this once repeatable company who now I would say is significantly deteriorate at best.. Mark if you are interesting in helping please do, just please understat that I have already been burned and just have no patience left for it. I'm not interested in telling my story over and over again so the someone at lernovo can act like they are saving the day by doing something that that should have been done in the first place. You were us out Mark. If you and lenove want it to stop, Simply stand behind your desegregating product and stop hiding behind the warranty as like that makes all ok.

 

Not to sound harsh either, but if you needed it work, you should have got the warranty extension. It was $120 when you bought your notebook. You might have even been able to bargain it down a bit.

 

No problem sounding harsh with me. But here is the another side of that. One does not expect a high quality product like Lenove to sell defective products and then hide behind the warranty. That is what recalls are for. Reputable companies do it all that time. . I do not buy extended warranties because I am technically competent and can complete repairs myself. HOWEVER, when a manufacture sells defective equipment, and the when people like me call with overheating problems during the warranty period and hear that is probably the bios, so you update and think everything is fine. THEN, when the real problem happens and your laptop is now completely unusable and you call lenovo and hear, oh, that is definitely the screen, couldn't be anything else. So, You use your technical competence and money to buy a new screen and replace only to find that haha, that not what it is. It the video, and not only is it the video, but it was caused by the over heating problem you called in about during the warranty. But since we stalled you past the warranty by telling you it was something it wasn't, and now its out of warranty, its not out problem.

So be harsh all you want. But my only mistake was mistaking Lenovo as a reputable company. Will not make that mistake again and would suggest anyone reading this do the same. Also understand this is just my opinion and everyone is entitled to make their own. But my opinion is based on real facts that Leveno has chosen to ignore not only from me but others who are posting here. Remember, they hung up when I asked about the overheating problem. When I first read these forums before I purchased my t61, there was nothing like this being posted. Only how great these old IBM machines are and how Lenovo has managed to carry on the quality. I would say that that has now run its course.

 

I have a question after reading this. I am the owner of a t61p thats been stolen and is due to be returned at any time. The last time I saw it, the t61p worked and worked well. Now come the questions...

How do we identify the systems that may be bad?
If ours is a bad one, is there any way to fix or to prolong it's life?
When was this problem fixed by Nvidia? At what serial number was the repair in effect?

I want to add that I bought this machine new off of ebay when the time lenovo needed to deliver the system went to three months.

Thats about all I can think of right now other than I hope everyone has bought both insurance (warranty ) and Computrace.

-Renee

 

<Mark@Lenovo said: While some of the failures discussed in this thread may indeed be related to the video subsystem, it does not necessarily mean it's the GPU itself, nor that even a GPU failure is due to the same root cause. When these kinds of issues become well publicized, there is an understandable tendancy for everyone that has a system based on one of these nvidia GPUs to be concerned and look to associate any failure with the known issue.>

Mark, is there a place where these failures related to the video subsystem are documented and quantified. This would allow us customers to look it up and know instead of not knowing and causing panic.

<Mark@Lenovo said While we provide coverage in accordance with the terms and conditions of the product warranty, some customers may have extenuating circumstances and we do have exception processes to review these and take actions as appropriate.>

Could you explain the exact criteria for that process?

<Mark@Lenovo said Filing a complaint through the BBB is way to register a formal complaint against a company, but this is sometimes a bit misunderstood. Generally, the BBB is there to provide advocacy to ensure a company responds to it's customers, but does not necessarily mean that the response must be an affirmative one. In the kinds of cases above, it is not necessary to go through the BBB as an intermediary - there are existing escalation paths through the company which reach the same team that handles all the BBB complaints. >

True enough, but Mark, the BBB is one of the few gauges a general consumer has to judge where to purchase. I understand that a manufacture would be well served by keeping BBB complaints at a minimum for whatever reason. I myself do not use the BBB, (but I certainly have a complaint against lenovo that I simply chose to voice here and through my social and business network), but when I was in business I took the one and only BBB complaint I ever relieved very seriously.

<Mark@Lenovo said Before going to the BBB, I would suggest that you escalate your issue either through sales, or service channels as most relevant to your particular issue - (I.e. product delivery, credits, incorrect config, billing dispute, etc, etc = sales, while warranty repair, product quality concerns, etc = service) >

I don’t know about the others with problems, but when I called to escalate, they hung up on me Mark, they hung up…

<Mark@Lenovo said After making reasonable attempts to get your issue resolved through these normal channels, you can request that a formal complaint be opened on your behalf. Please keep in mind that these are for exceptions and should be a reasonable last resort in working directly through the company. >

Is this exception stated policy or more of a damage control secrete. This is the first I am hearing about it. Is this exception stated in the lenove warrenty statement, (which by the way Lenovo WOULD NOT provide in writing when I asked for it).


<Mark@Lenovo said You can also reach me by PM here and on the Lenovo forum at http://forums.lenovo.com if you need help getting your situation reviewed.>

You should be commended for your efforts. That alone says there may still be hope.

 

So since I'm out of warranty with lenovo, I want to do the thing with visa where they extend the warranty for one year. I was wondering how and where I could get an estimate for repair on my laptop, so that I can send that into visa and get a reimbursement for it.
i talked to someone from lenovo the other day and they said to use the website bplocator.lenovo.com but it seems like a lot of the results are companies and not repair shops like i thought. Has anyone ever gone through visa to get their laptop repaired?

 

Have you tried calling Visa directly and explaining this? This is what I would try. Every credit card and credit card companies policies are different. I think AMEX is the most comprehensive but things are changing fast with the financial meltdown. From what I am reading many of the credit cards are removing these nice perks for the customer. If the card you have purchased your machine on has this warranty extension policy, you should be able to just call them up and ask for directions for what to do.

 

This thread is very interesting. This exact thing has been in the back of my mind since the time I heard of this problem, but that was much after I had purchased my T61p. My personal belief is that it was Nvidia, that has dropped the ball. I read a few articles on this problem and they mention that Nvidia knew about these issues with their 8x series cards but sold them anyways. Nvidia should have been the ones to issue a recall and accepted responsibility to fix any machine that were verified to have this problem. That would have been the proactive stance to take, but instead they decided to take a reactive stance by just dealing with cards on a "as they fail basis". From other things that I read I found out that Nvidia would have been finished if they acknowledged this problem since their were so many affected machines(both desktops and laptops for my understanding).

 

Firesnake,

Your right, of course. But what can be done for the owners of working t61p's at this date? How about a class action suit against Nvidia, IBM (my t61p on its way back now, has an IBM sticker on it) and Lenovo?

Renee

 

Guess I am the next unlucky one. T61 video stopped working. [Core 2 Duo 7500 (2.2GHz), 14.1 WXAG+ w/camera, Nvidia Quadro NVS 140M]. It is not producing a usable image at all and when I attach it to an external monitor it outputs no signal at all. My guess is that the LCD is fine, but that the video card has died. I can see that it is running "behind the video problems". Bought it 16 months ago, so warranty is up, but I think (hope) that since I used my Amex card it might be covered. I called Lenovo today to get help diagnosing it - the level 1 guy was an idiot (sorry - not trying to be mean, just accurate) and his supervisor listened to me and told me it would be $475 to fix. When I suggested that this was not reasonable, he hung up on me. Nice. I actually would rather make Lenovo suffer than Amex based on this poor experience. My last Lenovo product, in any case.

 

Wow, thats terrible. I feel bad for you. I can't believe that you are the second one who says that you were hung up on. AMEX is one of the better companies in terms of warranty coverage by purchase on their cards. From what I read they add a year on top of what ever manufacturer warranty you have. Since you have 16 months of use, you should be covered. My advice would be to call them as soon as possible. Like I said I am reading that a lot of the credit cards and going to drop a lot of these nice perks and are planning on charging annual fees again.

 

I think if there's anyone to point the finger at here, it's nVidia. They sold defective cards to their costumers like Dell, Lenovo, HP, Acer, etc., then went into hiding when the problem became apparent.

People seem to want to hang onto the good old day when notebooks were well built and serviced, but they seem to forget the cost 2-3x as much back then. There's no guarantees in life. If you needed it to work, again, you should have gotten the warranty extension.

 

Yes it is true that there are no guarantees in life. However, what I believe most of us here are talking about is reasonable expectation. For instance, we do not expect that Levono, being the reputable company that it is, (still giving benefit of doubt), would intentionally sell defect products. Nor do we thing Nvida would. But many of us here have experienced overheating problem during the warranty period and were not advised that it may be a defect with the Nvida video. If fact, in my case I was clearly told that it was probably the bios and to update and not worry about it. Then within a short time the entire failed.

I have 3 points to make here.

1, we the customers did not purchase anything directly from Nvida, so even if they are the problem here, our beef is with Lenove. That is who we paid our money to and who we rely on for service and support. If there is someone who can get some consideration from Nvida its Lenovo, not you or me.

2, When a manufacture in sells a product in good faith with a specified warranty period that they believe to free from defects, then again, you are correct that it is the customers problem and that is what an additional warranty period is for. But, what we are suspecting here is different. If a manufacture knowingly sells a defective product, (even if discovered it later), and then attempts to stall complaints by saying the problem is something else, (like bios update or something), that is not good faith and crosses the line of good business.

3, As far as the product used to cost 2 x 3 times more and we should expect less, that is baloney. We expect to get a working product free of defects at any price. The reason the price is lower today is because the market is different and Lenovo is more aggressive than IBM ever was. A lower selling price is not an excuse for a manufacture to skirt their responsibility to repair defects.

Now, no one here is saying that we are sure that Lenovo is guilty of knowingly selling defective product. But what many of us are saying is that we had problems during the warranty period and shortly after that we suspect is now a known defect, and we would like Lenove to speak up and take care of these machines. That is what high quality companies who care about long tern reputation do.

On the contrary, my personal experience has been to log a complaint during the warranty period, only to have it dismissed by Lenovo as something else. Then when my screen apparently failed Lenovo told me it had to be the screen. I only know it is not because I actually replaced it. No I am making an assumption here that it is the video, But when I asked Lenovo if my service complaint about overheating could be related to this video failure, they told me in a heated voice that " the product is out of warranty" and hung up on me.

So zaz, I appreciate your opinion and all the work you put in around here. You are of course free to assume its the price, or its nvida or things are different than the old days and selling defective products is somehow to be accepted these days, but some of us here are not quite so naive.

 

I have a T61p with the 570m, do I need to worry? It seems as though all of the failures are related to the 140m. Have there been a lot of reports of the 570 going bad too?? Does it help that I took off the stock paste and applied AS5? I guess I shouldn't worry, I have a little less than 2 years of warranty (Yay 3 year warranty) left, but still, I kinda would hate to see my lappy have problems.