T61 rant/problem solving

I purchased a 15.4" T61 back at the end of December 2007, and it's practically put me off Thinkpads for life. I knew up front it was nowhere near as nice as my old T42, but it's just been a neverending stream of problems the whole time I've owned it. I have some issues that are pressing, but I'd also like to highlight some other complaints.

Specs in brief: WSXGA+ screen, T7300, NVS 140m, 3GB memory.



"Minor" issues:

LCD is installed tilted slightly to the left. Compared to the IPS panel in my old T42, but that's hardly unique to the T61...

Left speaker buzzes frequently when playing sound. I removed the keyboard bezel to inspect it, which stopped the buzzing completely. The problem is caused by a complete lack of damping material between the speaker and surrounding case components. Interestingly, with the keyboard bezel removed, the RIGHT speaker buzzes because it's so loosely mounted to the case (mainly held in place by the bezel).

Battery. The battery essentially died less than a year after receiving the laptop. I should have had this replaced under warranty at the time, but I did not realize it was in such a poor state until after the battery warranty expired. For a while last year, I was receiving battery errors from the Lenovo software. The power manager shows it can only hold 25% of its original charge, which means perhaps 30 minutes on battery. It's at 399 cycles, most of which are short discharges because of the poor battery life since it died. I haven't bought a new battery because I could never decide whether or not to just ditch this laptop. That, and the battery life wasn't all that great to begin with.

Power manager software issue. For a long time, I had the apparently common problem of the Thinkvantage power manager creating hundreds of profiles in the registry. This makes it impossible to create new profiles of your own that the software can access, and it limited me to two random profiles I was actually able to set. I had absolutely no idea what was wrong, and assumed it was caused by the dying battery. I was able to fix the issue by deleting all the profiles, having it recreate new ones, renaming them, and manually setting one in the registry. New profiles are still assigned numbers in the hundreds. The software will not access anything above 50, so again I must manually renumber anything I create with regedit.

The touchpad drivers have a bug that causes them to be unloaded every now and then when waking up from standby. Nothing but basic functions work, until the computer is put into standby and started up again. I've tried every new driver as it's released, but the problem is always present. At least they managed to fix the driver issue with the left speaker cutting out (requiring reboot) after a year or so...

General poor fit of components. The keyrest and other parts of the case are very creaky, the right touchpad button has occasionally stopped clicking properly for long periods, and other similar complaints. The crooked LCD mounting pretty much says it all here. Even the battery is really loose.



Major issues:

Lately, I've had an intermittent issue where I return to the computer after leaving it turned on (idle) all day, and find it in a completely unuseable state that requires a reboot. There are video issues like text missing in *patches* from various applications, blank icons, etc. Additionally, attempting to launch any applications results in "failed to initialize" errors, invalid dll errors, and the like. Often I can't even shut down the computer properly, so I have to do a hard power off.

The other problem is that it runs ridiculously hot. This has been more of an issue since I fixed the power manager problem, as I'm finally able to run it in the "maximum performance" mode, which increases temperatures maybe 10C. I use tpfancontrol in smart mode. It shows the fan reaching a maximum speed of around 3300rpm, which is also what it runs at with manual speed set to 7. Running it in the "unmetered" mode shows 6000rpm. In the BIOS control mode, the fan doesn't ever go above around 3100rpm, and is usually slower, even with utterly ridiculous temperatures.

I did a test earlier this evening using the "maximum performance" mode, running prime95 then letting it sit idle, in two separate fan modes. At the end of the prime95 tests, the laptop case was actually too hot to have it on my lap. Here are the results:

Under load, manual = 7 (~3300rpm)

1 CPU 99°C (0x78)
2 APS 58°C (0x79)
3 PCM 46°C (0x7a)
4 GPU 93°C (0x7b)
5 BAT 38°C (0x7c)
7 BAT 34°C (0x7e)
9 BUS 54°C (0xc0)
10 PCI 61°C (0xc1)
11 PWR 79°C (0xc2)

Under load, unmetered (6000 rpm)

1 CPU 91°C (0x78)
2 APS 56°C (0x79)
3 PCM 44°C (0x7a)
4 GPU 86°C (0x7b)
5 BAT 38°C (0x7c)
7 BAT 34°C (0x7e)
9 BUS 53°C (0xc0)
10 PCI 59°C (0xc1)
11 PWR 74°C (0xc2)

Idle, manual = 7 (~3300rpm)

1 cpu 67°C
2 aps 45°C
3 crd 39°C
4 gpu 69°C
5 no5 38°C
7 bat 34°C
9 bus 43°C
10 pci 48°C
11 pwr 56°C

Idle, unmetered (6000 rpm)

1 cpu 56°C
2 aps 44°C
3 crd 35°C
4 gpu 60°C
5 no5 38°C
7 bat 34°C
9 bus 42°C
10 pci 47°C
11 pwr 49°C

More typical operation would be idle with the fan control running in smart mode. CPU temp rises to the low 70s.

There is no dust anywhere in the HSF system. The laptop is still under warranty, so I don't want to replace the thermal compound. I guess it's finally time to give in and send it for service. I've always struggled through the issues because there is no local service centre, and any hardware issues require a 1-1/2 to 2 week trip to Lenovo. It's my only laptop, and I need it on a daily basis, so it's pretty hard to do without it for two weeks.

 

Very sorry to hear about all your problems. I too would avoid a brand if I had all the problems you do.

I can say that I bought a new T61p from Lenovo and a X200 from a private seller(used) and they are both great machines. I have no complaints and have no problems. I think a large factor that determines the machines performance has to do with who assembled it. I think there are people who are not as well qualified as others in terms of assembling the machine. I have seen pictures and read stories of machines that rock back and fourth on the table, bulges in the case due to improper assembly and forcing to components to go where they don't belong. I don't have any of these issues, both machines are rock solid and are a pleasure to use.

I have never had the touchpad issues you mention. As far as your battery, maybe it was defective to begin with? I am just starting to use Power manager now and just got done creating my own custom power profile and it works great, no problems. Maybe your defective battery was giving your Power Manager problems?

I am suprised about the high amount of heat. Both my machines are great with heat and my X200 doesn't even get warm. In fact I don't even feel warm air coming from the vent. I have heard that certain machines didn't have their heat sink pipe fit properly. Some people disassembled the machine and bent the heat pipe to the proper direction and things were better.

In any event, this is your machine and you are not satisfied. If I were you I would start shopping for a new machine and sell your T61. I would be bold enough to ask you to try Lenovo again.

 

The most trouble free computer I've had has been a t61p and and a clean-install of Vista.

Renee

 

I don't have a T61, so I cannot comment on your hardware issues. All I can say is that my T500 has none of these issues, not even the common wobbly battery.

I'm pretty surprised by your software problems as well. Do you have the latest version of Power Manager and the UltraNav drivers? Funnily enough, I think Power Manager is the least buggy piece of Lenovo ThinkVantage software.

Your CPU (and to a degree, GPU) temperatures are dangerously high at load. Perhaps you have a lot of dust caked in your heat vent or have a dying fan? My CPU never passed 60 degrees at full load and idles at 28-37 degrees (and sometimes much cooler at night).

Maybe you should also try a clean install of Windows and see if that resolves your software issues.

 

I wouldn't say doom and gloom just yet, but I would firstly check your heat sinks to make sure there isn't excess dust and etc. in them. The best way to do this would be to remove the keyboard, although I wouldn't pull the heat sink out since this will void your warranty. See if getting in there and cleaning any dust/etc out could be causing an issue.

Now, I will also say that there has been a huge stink over Nvidia's G84-core cards... 8400/8600M, some 8700Mcards(IIRC), and a few others. The fact of the matter is that Nvidia really dropped the ball on quality control... and unfortunately the Quadro cards in the T61/p are these G84 ones. If you're having serious stability/heat issues, I would highly suggest sending it in, and they may have to end up replacing your motherboard. This is the Achilles' heel of an otherwise good design, and I personally struck out the T61 because of the Nvidia issue. I ended up with my T60, which has a less powerful(but still pretty capable) ATI X1400, and as a bonus I still have the 4:3 Flexview I loved with my old T42.

 

I have been nothing but happy with my T61. I bought in new in February 2008, and has been totally trouble free (knock on wood). My T61 also has the "battery wobble", but that does not bother me at all. In fact, most of the T61 owners I've talked to has it as well, and is of no concern to most of them.
But, everyone is different, and I'm sorry for the problems you are having with your T61. I would give the Thinkpad another chance and get a new T500/W500. You will not be disappointed !!
The T61 is not only the best laptop I've ever owned, but I would go out of my way to have my friends get a Think-pad as well.

 

I'm going to call Lenovo and request warranty service. I'm pretty sure I haven't done anything to void the warranty, but I have had the keyboard, keyboard bezel, etc. off to check the speakers and dust off the HSF. Is it okay to mention this if it comes up?

Describing the intermittent meltdown issue should be fun...

 

The T61p runs hot. The keybooard is considered user replaceable, not sure about the bezel.

 

So.. the T4x series had their issues as well, they ran hotter than the T6x series ever did or do because IBM/Lenovo made them rather thin notebooks for their time.

 

I wouldn't say that across the board. The T43 units run pretty hot, especially with the higher end Sonoma Penitum Ms. My own T42 ran cool and quiet.

 

Have you tried undervolting? It might help a little, even though it seems like your laptop was not assembled correctly at the factory.

 

Yes.. it's true that the T43/p ran quite a bit hotter than the rest of the series, mine goes to 86 when playing CoD 2 and the X300 GPU overclocked to 425-core 350-mem, which isn't really that hot when you look at it i suppose.

Proud to be able to run CoD 2 using DirectX 9.0 with 30+ FPS

 

I have a T61p that was purchased from Lenovo at about exactly the same time. I insured it with Computrace for years. Then almost exactly a year ago, I was run over by an illegal alien and hospitalized for a whole year. The T61p was stolen. Then they tried to put it on the internet long enough for the lenovo to place a call. The code is in the bios and they didn't know it. The police recovered the lenovo and they made arrests. The point is that I have been treated like royalty by lenovo and I have no complaints at all. The t61p had the largest processor made and the battery is like new and runs Windows 7 like greased lightening. I'm installing a development based machine and it's going together well.

The T61p is almost as fast as my Extreme as measured by Windows 7.

Renee

 

Lenovo has a recall on some T61 batteries; it has just been announced. Google "lenovo t61 battery recall" for more info; your model may be affected.

I had the same problem with my T61's battery; otherwise, the machine has been fine. I'll be looking into this recall myself, as my SO now has the T61.