T61p 14" vs 15"

I read the information on the web about the upcoming Intel mobile processors and gave serious thought to what near term benifits they may offer to me while running my usual apps (Office 2007, AutoCad etc.). The answer was none.

Armed with this knowledge I began to search for a fairly portable 14" bedroom computer that can do work. I was scared off by what I read about the graphics and display system on the 14" T61p. I didn't expect that it would compare favorably with the Flexview screen in my T60p but yikes! Is it really dim? And the 64 bit bus on the graphics adapter? I like to be capable whether I ever need the capability or not.

As I look at the measurements and weights on the two boxes, they do not seem to be that different. Are the complaints about the 14" just isolated cases and is the graphics system really good enough? Is the size and portability difference between the 14" and the 15" not enough to take the 15" with its better graphics/screen out of consideration?

 

The 64-bit bus will only hurt in gaming, otherwise, go with the 14" for portability.

 

Isn't the only difference between the graphics card in the T61p 14" and 15.4" the amount of RAM?

 

Of course not, the RAM difference is almost insignificant compared to halved bandwidth.

James, have you looked at the LG P300? It's only 13.3" and offers a 8600GS. In theory, the P300 might outperform 14" T61p at native resolutions.

 

Is the screen tolerable and is the difference in bulk between the two boxes really noticeable?

 

Both 14" and 15.4" models of the T61p use the Quadro FX 570M, which nVidia's website lists as being a 128-bit card with up to 256MB of RAM. It says nothing about about a version with different bandwidth. The T61 (not the P model), which is also available in 14" or 15.4" screen sizes, uses the NVS 140M, which is a 64-bit card.

 

The NVS 140M is a completely different matter, no idea why you brought it in.

Anyways, the 14" Quadro FX570M is found to be crippled a long time ago and it's known by a lot of people already. You can find more information on it by searching this forum itself or go to http://forum.thinkpads.com/ and look there; I believe this fact was first discovered over there.

 

There were some posts about the difference in the chipsets used in the 14" and 15" models. From what I read, the 14" model may only accept a 64 bit adapter.

 

The 14" widesceen model is only available with the 64-bit NVS140. The 14" 4:3 SXGA+ model is available with the NVS140 (T61) or Quadro FX570M (T61P). There are some reviews out there that confuse the 14" widescreen T61 as being a T61p model. Based on the specs listed at lenovo.com and nVidia.com, the T61p 14.1" 4:3 aspect ratio notebook uses a 128MB Quadro FX570M 128-bit GPU.

 

Remember to take into account one other thing --the 14" T61p, unlike the T61, is not available in widescreen. If you want a widescreen display, you'll want the 15.4"

EDIT: MattB85 beat me by a couple of minutes!

 

So nVidia's specs are wrong? http://www.nvidia.com/page/quadrofx_go.html says nothing about a 64-bit bus on the 570M.

 

Ask the people on thinkpads forums if you still choose to not believe me. Every point that you put forward has been brought up before, I don't feel like discussing about each all over again.

 

Not saying that you're wrong, I'm just confused as to why a manufacturer would intentionally cripple a GPU.

 

A full-fledged FX570 generates too much heat for such a small form factor.

 

Thanks MattB85. This helps with the decision.

I really do not need a widescreen. This computer would be for the bedroom/light work and personal travel. I had hoped to get some feedback on the screen before the clock runs out on the sale but that may not happen. It may be a subjective thing.

 

Is the 128MB crippled 570M at least still DX10 capable?

 

Oh well. Looks like the 15 incher is back in the running.

 

I don't believe it is a deliberate cripple, just the design.

Note that the 14" model only has 128MB of video RAM, vs. the 256MB of the 15.4" model. Less RAM = narrower path to it.

It's not unusual. The best comparison I can think of is back when PCI video cards were new. My workplace (I worked for a mom-n-pop computer shop back then, around `96) sold cards based on the S3 Trio64 family. They came with 1MB onboard, upgradeable to 2MB. The important thing to know was that doubling the RAM brought the data path to the GPU from 32 to 64-bits, important back then if you wanted better performance at 32-bit color.

I'd guess there is less RAM due to a smaller space in the system.

 

Will someone please step up and say whether or not the 14’ display is good or bad on the recent production models. I promise not to hate you if I find out you were wrong. I just want an opinion.

 

It definitely is DX10 capable. It's only crippled in memory and bandwidth.

 

The screen is bright enough for me. Much brighter than my t43 14.1" screen. No problem in gaming also.

 

Thank you.

 

For "bedroom, light work and personal travel" as you describe do you really need high end graphics that the p offers? Comes at a price of cost and battery life and doesn't improve 2D performance at all. Of course if your light work is 3D rendering or CGI then I'll just shut up...

 

Good to know. That's a big advantage that the T61P has over the HP 6910P.

 

Lungdoc -

I thought that the graphics adapters in the P line were mid range for the manufacturer however I do not doubt that the computer is up to the tasks that you suggest it is.

You are right. It is more computer than I really need but that holds true for a lot of us and the computers that we buy. One thing that that I failed to mention is that this computer would also be the backupfor my bread and butter 15" T60p. I am a contractor working for a large firm from home. I earn my money on these things. If it ever breaks and I do not have this realatively cheap reliable backup, I am in deep do do.

 

also recently bought a 14" t61p.

the screen is great. much much better than expected given all the negative reviews on the web.

viewing angles are limited, but screen is plenty bright enough.

I came from a x40, and I don't know how I lived with the XGA resolution for so long!

 

Many people are under the misconception (I was also until recently) that the video card matters vs. integrated graphics for 2D performance. "More than you really need" is fine, but if you don't do 3D work or 3D gaming then you don't need the advantages of the p series and may find that longer battery life of integrated graphics suits your needs better. I just wanted to point out that your listed tasks so far haven't included a clear need for 3D performance.

 

I just want to jump in and say spare machine is a really good idea. I also work from home, as do many in my firm. I came out looking golden when my PC died this January. I had a spare machine loaded up with software and ready to go, and I had backup of my files that I'd made the night before. I lost maybe an hour while my backup restored onto my spare. Essentially, I continued working across a PC meltdown with only that one-hour hiccup. My boss was favorably impressed.

Spare PC = good plan, especially if you work from a home office.

 

I would posit that it does matter, at least in the case of running Windows Vista's Aero Glass UI. While Intel's new X3100 can run it, I don't believe it does so as well as, say, a base Quadro NVS 140M from a T61, and it takes system RAM that would be useful to other programs.

Discrete graphics is less of a factor on XP, but for those planning on running Vista, I still encourage having a real GPU.

 

I took an $1100 leap of faith last night. I am certain that there is one line item that I will regret later. I am already second guessing myself. Does the word "downgrade" give you a clue as to what it might be?

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hey man let me put it like this the the thinkpad is a great computer and that you have a option of 14.1 or a 15.4inche screen. ther is really no difference in the screen when your using the laptop. but yes the 15.4 screen is more cleaner or roomyer. wat i mean is that the 15.4 inch screen supports 1920x 1200 resolution. so it just looks better i have a 14.1 the reason i choose a 14.1 screen was the ability to take it out in class and us it one the desk and still have room to write. 14.1 is really great when it comes to traveling. it is the best. i love it . i have a 6cell battery and my laptop only weights about 5.3 lbs that is really nothing. compared to my Dell inspiron 5160 which wieghted 10.4lb and with adapter it was lik 13-15lb.

another difference is the video card. the 15.4 just has a better video card. and if your going to use autoCAD i would recommend that you should get the most and the best graphic card man. hahahah


you know something thinkpads are just great computers. i just love them. i hope this has helped you understanding everything. from expience, if your traveling you should get the 14.1 if you like to travle small and light. but you dont care about size and your a power demon then go ahead and get the thinkpad t61p. it is a great laptop i just love it. i am actually saving up to get another one for games and this time i am going to get the t61p with 256mb video card

 

I assume you mean the OS when you talk about a downgrade. That's a lot of computer for $1100. The only things I would add are more ram and an extended warranty, but that's just a matter of personal preference.

 

Maybe it will seem like a not so good deal but the exact price was $1122 and I had to pay tax on that but there was a considerable savings. I'll order memory when the thing ships. One of these days I will pay the price for not buying the warranty but I never have.

 

That's a heck of a deal. Good point about the memory, it probably is cheaper to buy it and add it later.

 

Let me know how you like the 4:3 aspect. I got an R61 a month ago, but really want a T61P either 14" or 15", still debating if I like the fullscreen or widescreen aspect. My R61 (NVS 140M) is pretty nice, though my latches suck, and I am getting the penryn whine (inducter probobly). So I am looking to get those things fixed, sell it, and get a T but really am not sure about the fit and finish of the 14" and 15" models.