The 410S Screen - is it that bad?

Hey All,

I know this is subjective to some, but I was wondering if I could get the opinion of others regarding the 410S WXGA Screen. I've been considering purchasing one, but the comments have really been giving me pause.

Has anyone run any acutal number test for color accuracy, etc... I just tend to wonder if some are not trying to compare matte to glossy, where the latter is just always going to have an advantage in some catagories, as well as a disadvantage in others.

....just looking for opinions.

Btw -I use my laptops for a bit of everything, work, surfing, movies, and light gaming.

 

I believe notebookcheck has a review with numbers (Lenovo uses multiple panels though), but in the end it's best to see it with your own eyes.

 

I agree- you have to factor in your use and see for your yourself. My wxga stock panel in my x201 feels fine for working, browsing, and online videos, and plenty bright, but i would not even think about watching a movie, for instance.

 

If you know someone with a calibration sensor and software, they help immensely. They're pretty pricey but most photographers that are serious have them.

 

I tried a T410 with the 1280x800 screen first before ending up with the T410s and its 1440x900 panel. I can easily say that the 1440x900 display is better, but not by much. Viewing angles are ok, especially in the horizontal plane, but like you've probably read, color is washed out, and blacks are all light gray. It isn't as bad as the 1440x900 display on the X200s and X201s, though.

 

Hhhm, well, think I'll pass. For the life of me, I don't know why Lenovo skimps on screen quality or at least doesn't off a "premium screen" option. I'd go for the better screen for sure, bet lot's of customers would.

 

Lenovo has stated that they don't believe it is worth the cost or effort to bring in premium panels (like before, when they had IPS panels on a few of their models). Unfortunately, those that would like a premium screen (ie. most of us) are in the vast minority.

 

@TomNJ, when you say 410S, are you talking about multiple T410 or T410s laptop.

The T410s laptop only has WXGA+ LCD AFAIK.

The colour of the T410s WXGA+ LCD tends to be slightly washed out, unless you use the LCD at above 70% brightness level.

 

Lot of people i talk to, don't understand the difference between IPS and TN panel. Most of people ask me why Dell U2410 LCD costs so much more than their regular consumer range 24 inch LCD.

This problem is also faced by TV manufacturers, for example people think a 500 dollars LCD TV has similar quality panel as a Sony Bravia TV costing 2000 dollars, just because they are all using the same resolution and have the same ports.

It is only when you show them the difference in the picture quality do they understand the difference (hence why shops have many display TV to give comparisons), but vast majority of people would still choose a cheaper LCD (but avoids the 500 dollars dollar one).

Given that most companies that procure laptops for employees, generally use them for word processing, web surfing, powerpoint, excels, etc, where screen quality is not the primary concern. It is therefore sometime hard to justify the extra expense of a non-TN LCD panels, even if it brings amazing picture quality.

 

lead org,

I'm only looking at the 410S (I like the formfactor, ssd, etc...).

I should've probably mentioned that I'm "kicking aroud" with a T43. Don't know how the 410S would compare.

Interestingly - I own a U2410 and understand what your saying about picture quality and what the average consumer thinks about panels (or really just doesn't know/understand). Of course, I don't expect notebooks to match U2410 design...at least not yet.

I give Apple ALOT of credit here, they seem to understand screen quality better than most.

Your point on business being the major purchaser of these machines is well taken. Though it's still a pity there are no upgrade options.

 

Hhhmm, and just to add to the confusion - here's one from "Computer Shopper"

"Another highlight on the T410s is the 14.1-inch screen. The panel is exceedingly bright and delivers very vibrant colors. The barely-there antiglare coating eliminates annoying reflectivity, but it does not detract from the panel’s clarity. The 1,440x900 screen resolution delivers crisp, legible text, and the panel delivered excellent color reproduction in images and video. The panel has a wide viewing angle in Windows apps, making it a good bet for using for PowerPoint presentations to a small group, but the video-watching sweet spot is more constrained, as you’ll see a color/brightness shift if you move too far off-center."

 

I want the Dell U3011. If my 27" ever bites the dust I'll get one.

 

Apple does do well with their vertical integration, they don't offer so many options on their laptop range as compared to Thinkpads, Elitebooks, or Latitudes, i guess this way they can find a better part supplier. Also lot of Apple's computer customers are graphics designer, so having a good screen is important.

 

"Hhhm, well, think I'll pass. For the life of me, I don't know why Lenovo skimps on screen quality or at least doesn't off a "premium screen" option. I'd go for the better screen for sure, bet lot's of customers would."

Hello? Lenovo makes a "business" computer. The display is not engineered for entertainment or gaming.

Renee

 

Renee,

You're kidding? Thanks, I didn't realize ThinkPads were business targeted! Really appreciate the feedback - very helpfull, now I get it.

 

People, don’t get excited! The screen quality, as everything else when you’re purchasing a laptop, is a matter of personal preference in conjunction with usage needs and budget, more so than specs and numbers.

I mean, the vast majority of consumers like glossy displays because they look more vivid... Do you think they care if it’s TN or S-IPS or H-IPS or P-IPS? Or whether it covers 50% or 90% of color gamut? Ok, maybe they’ll check the brightness and contrast but that’s about it.

True, I would also like an IPS or a Superbright on my X201, and I wouldn’t mind spending another $300 for it; however this did not, and will not, prevent me from buying a TP because I want to use it for specific tasks. As if I work on my TP from a horizontal or vertical angle and I care so much about viewing angles! As for blacks and whites, oh, I assure you they look pretty black and pretty white when working on documents and spreadsheets and statistics, or browsing! (you can always tweak the stock panel to get better results, you know). If you want to watch bluray or 3D game on your TP, oh, well, don’t buy it! Get a gaming laptop or use your desktop or HDTV. After all, laptops, by definition, are for portable use and have to compromise between weight, size, performance, battery life, etc. Somewhere along the way (recently) we forgot about that and now everybody thinks that all laptops can serve as desktop replacements. Well they can’t.

I guess we would all love a superbright P-IPS but we would then complain about battery life, or end up using it at brightness 3 – and don’t get me wrong, when on-the-go, I prefer my stock TN at brightness 10 than an IPS at 3!

 

How do some of you create the false dichotomy that because these are supposedly business machines that the screen must absolutely suck? It completely oversimplifies the matter, which works if you want to dumb it down and be a fanboy, but it does a disservice to people who want answers. ThinkPads were at one point considered the standard for business-class laptops, including the screen.

I have a word for those of you who accept mediocrity: FlexView.

On the other hand, I also have three words that express the reality of the situation: Not coming back.

Nevertheless, that doesn't mean that the panels today must necessarily be of inferior quality, regardless of whether they are TN- or IPS-based. There are decent TN-based panels out there as well, but Lenovo largely hasn't been using them.

 

Personally, this is my first TP ever – far from a fanboy – but I still do believe it’s all about personal preference and usage. I absolutely like my X201 stock panel for what I use it for, period. I agree though about the false dichotomy of business laptops with poor screens; if anything, I would expect business laptops to have a best-in-class screen, at least spec-wise, because the actual image quality is more of a subjective thing, I believe.

 

@Snakecharmed.

No one is saying that business machine's LCD must suck or anything like that. But rather that most companies don't place high priority on the quality of LCD, they only focus on screen quality in their workstation grade machines (even then the choices are quite limited) or if large market demand exists for such features. Computer companies (other than Apple) are operating in a low margin and highly competitive market environment, where product pricing is the most important factor that they consider. You would only have to look at how the amount of discounts available is related to the sales volume.

Also, regarding Flexview LCD, laptops price were still relatively high back then. Furthermore, IBM also had interests in LCD production technologies (i.e. IDTech). In 2001, IBM released a desktop 22.2 inch LCD with 3840×2400 resolution, which till this day still remains the highest resolution desktop LCD.

It is not us whom is uninterested in high quality LCD, but rather it is the large corporate market segment whom is not interested. They command the market share, and therefore they have the larger influence on the product parts specification.

 

I just bought a used T400s over the weekend and love it
The size and weight is absolutely amazing for a 14" laptop and it has a thinkpad keyboard.
The screen is more than adequate for accounting, office, email and browsing.
It looks better to me than my T61 and T42 by far, regardless how it measures in benchmarks

 

if you want a light laptop with a great screen, then lenovo is not the best option, but that doesn't mean lenovo doesn't offer good screen quality laptops. Check out the w510 or the t510 with 1080p option - both of those screens are suppose to be top of their class...

 

I have already commented on the screen quality of my T410s. To say, before I had a Z61m, which screen was by far not as bright, could not read it outside with sun,but for watching movies the viewing angles were better, blacks were better and I'm not professional, but for movies it was better. Considering the Z series was meant to be a little multimedia it was understandable.

The T410s screen is viewable in summer with the brightest sun, the brightness is far better, never use it on maximum. The viewing angles are but worse than on the Z61m, blacks when viewing movies are bad and the colours doesn't seem so nice.

Maybe if I found somebody with a calibrator that would help. But for now, I can just live with that. And yes, I watch movies on it, because in college don't have an external display yet and on trains or buses you can not carry the external display.

 

Well, really? When you mentioned 1080p, you're referring to resolution: 1920 pixels wide by 1080 pixels high, in Full HD aspect ratio. This says next to nothing about the LCD quality in terms of color, brightness, viewing angles, and so on...

I don't want to put my T510 1920x1080 laptop next to my Dell Studio 1558 1920x1080 laptop, because I get really frustrated whenever I happen to do so. The display quality of the 1558 (which has a Philips LCD in my case) puts the T510 to shame. Nevertheless, I use the two machines for different functions, so the inferior quality of the T510 LCD is not something I want to complain about, or try to defend for.

I enjoy my T410s (the 's' model, not plural!) for reasons other than the LCD. The only "problem" is that you look at the LCD every time you use a laptop!

By the way, I found out that, on the same LCD, Ubuntu 10.10 renders fonts much better than Windows 7 with ClearType. All of a sudden, my T510 display is clearer and sharper, and the characters appear as if on a laser-printed page! But it is still not as good as the 15" Flexview on my five-year-old T43p, heh heh...

So, there are a lot of factors - some related to hardware design/components per manufacturer, some related to software sophistication, and the rest subjective - that you personally must experience in order to decide for yourself. Spec numbers alone are not always useful.

 

I have the T410s and the same panel as everyone else seems to have (Monitor Type: LTN141BT08001). It's a Samsung LCD which don't have the best reputation. That said, the screen is insanely bright, to the point it could potentially be used out doors in the sun if you just squint a bit, so that's a plus. To me the colors seem good but the contrast not the best. For my needs the screen is just fine though, I don't do a whole lot of movie watching on my laptop, movie trailers and YouTube/Vimeo/Brightcove are the extent of it. If you are really into multimedia and are a photography buff that needs faithful color reproduction and contrast the screen might be an issue. I have used past ThinkPads with IPS panels and it's true the T410s can't compare. However, 99% of my use of a laptop involves web browsers, Excel, Notepad++ and MS Visual Studio and those software programs all have about 16 colors so I wouldn't complain if the color palette were the same range as a Nintendo, in other words I may not be the best person to give an opinion. I'll quote Kevin O'Brien's review below for a fairly level headed take that is certainly honest and based on hundreds of other laptop screen he has worked seen:

Lenovo ThinkPad T410s Review

 

Judging the sometimes called a-washed-out-color screen from Thinkpad range, i think it is better to choose the highest resolution available from every screen size.

For 14' for instance, it is better and safe to choose 1440X900 than 1280X800.

Just for playing safe, usually higher resolution have better quality. IMHO

 

The t400s' screen is poor for watching movies. For white backgrounds it's totally fine. I believe that it's the vertical viewing angles that are very horrible. The horizontal is even above average. The black level is terrible, meaning, you're looking at a dark gray at best. The brightness is definitely extremely bright, like for sure > 300 nits. At least I've got no complaints there.

All in all, the best way to guarantee a good panel is to go with an apple product (say what you want, but they don't use junk panels in any of their latest laptops) and Sony's premium series. Dell and Lenovo have good panels in selected (read: behemoth) 15.4" laptops.

I personally would not buy a T410s b/c of the screen, but that's b/c this is a premium-priced notebook. I don't pay premium prices for things (anymore) that skimp on something as critical as the screen.

 

I don't think so, "higher resolution" does not directly translate to "better quality". My T510 has 1920x1080 LCD and my T410s has 1440x900 LCD, which may be considered high resolutions for their physical sizes.

But the "washed-out-color" problem, as you stated, does exist on both. Yes, they are bright, but the contrast is mediocre, the blacks are grays, and the colors (especially the red and the green) are really "washed out" and look quite "cheap". I say all this as a "business user" of the ThinkPads, and not from the perspective of a graphics designer or media developer, or someone watching movies.

 

I agree. "Business" or whatever, the user of a laptop looks at the screen for long periods almost every day.

The "legendary" ThinkPad keyboard pampers my fingers (well, not as good as compared to the T41/43 keyboards). I want an option of a really good LCD to pamper my eyes.

And I don't mind spending extra money for it.

 

You missed my point. What i mean is to compare various resolution for the same screen size. Like i said above, 14' 1440X900 is better than 14' 1280X800.

What you compare is different sizes. Just compare 15' 1920X1080 with 15' 1366X768 and you know what i mean.

For some of us, which order by internet or catalogue, sometimes it is hard to judge the screen quality. So it is better choose the highest resolution available for every screen size you pick, since Thinkpad are not known for its "blazing" screen quality.

 

Agreed.

I've long pondered making "the switch" and I've played with plenty of Mac Laptops in the stores. They do have nice screens. I also find it interesting that they're moving towards "retina display" pixel density with their new MB Air line.

As an aside - I also hate touchpads, but Apple clearly has the best on the market in this category.

Someday OLED will be cheap enough to render the issue of screen quality academic... I for one am looking forward to that day.

 

Just received my T410s. The screen looks great so far. Better that my T410 for work.