The 7-Layer Keyboard - An End of an Era?

In terms of quality hardware, the Thinkpad is best known for its red nub and legendary keyboard. The keyboard often a topic when discussing the pros of the Thinkpad line of laptops. But has it reached an impasse?

With the introduction of the Thinkpad chiclet keyboard, I think that the 7-layer has finally met its match. Although I haven't had any experience with one, the chiclet has received universal acclaim, with a large proportion of reviewers actually preferring the chiclet over the traditional format. When people are deciding over 'traditional' vs Edge Thinkpads, they list the chiclet as a pro.

What makes the chiclet better? Will Lenovo eventually switch all Thinkpads to the chiclet format as seen with the X1 flagship Thinkpad? I've compiled a list of pros below:

Traditional 7 Layer:


Pros:
1. Familiar Thinkpad Feel/Nostalgia
2. More Keys; I use the "back" and "forward" keys a lot. Beats hitting the back button the browser or hitting backspace, the latter which doesn't always work.
3. Hitting "F1" will do F1. Volume/Contrast/etc should be enabled by "Fn"; not the other way around as it seems in the chiclet.

Modern Chiclet:


Pros:
1. Refined looks. The ugly blue "Enter" key is now black like it should be.
2. Easier typing experience; long nails no longer pose a problem.
3. Smaller keyboard format allows for larger trackpad and wristpad.
4. Backlit keyboards are now possible.

Is a new era upon us? The chiclet seems superior and if Lenovo wants to reduce costs, they may decide to ax the 7-layer right? But will only the "old-school" people miss it?

The ultimate keyboard is not far off. I realize that Lenovo is not due for a retooling of the keyboards yet (T400s only came out a couple of years ago), but here are my suggestions for what should come.

1. Keep the 7-layer format. I need all of my keys. Keep the large "delete." Keep the blue "Fn" keys and F1 equals F1. Some programs use the F keys a lot. I would hate to have to hit "Fn" F1 to do F1.
2. All keys should be the same color. Blacken that "Enter."
3. Backlit should be standard
4. "Fn"/"Ctrl" issue has to be resolved. BIOS switch isn't going to cut it and both sides will never give up.

My solution: Get rid of the "Fn" key altogether. This creates more space for "Crtl"/"Win"/"Alt"/"Space" etc. Add "Fn" functionality to the middle mouse button. Under the current color scheme, all "Fn" labels are blue. The middle mouse is also blue. Hitting and holding the middle mouse and then "F4" would put the laptop to sleep. This was meant to be. One hand affair, easy to locate in the dark, fast, easy, and won't disrupt current functions; Who currently needs to use the middle mouse and F keys? No cons. Everyone would like it and "Ctrl" will be in the right place for certain hand-wringing programs.

5. Chiclet formfactor. I hate to say it, but it seems that it has no weaknesses. Easier on our female companions.

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. Feel free to chime in on my questions/thoughts, or to root for your side of the issue. If you have comments on the design of the "ultimate" keyboard, please voice in.

*UPDATE*

For those who would like to go the extra mile and have access to BOTH chiclet and classic keyboards (I know, only a few will). Please take a few minutes and report you WPM score on this thread after visiting this site:

Test #1: Traditional/Chiclet Keyboard
FreeTypingGame.net - Timed Typing Test, a 1 to 5 minute Free Typing Test

Just click "START." Type until 1 minute is up and record your time (the program will do all of the recording/timing automatically, just type!). To make the assessment fair, switch keyboards and go to:

Test #2: Chiclet/Traditional Keyboard
FreeTypingGame.net - Timed Typing Test, a 1 to 5 minute Free Typing Test

It doesn't matter which keyboard you start/end with. Just so long that you end up using both. Each test is 1 minute long, so it shouldn't be too painful. I know that this is asking a lot on a forum, but I hope that the results will be interesting.

Post times with the following format:

Test #1: 52 WPM - Traditional/Chiclet
Test #2: 52 WPM - Chiclet/Traditional

Every now and then (if we get a lot of participants), I'll try to average the WPM times on this post.

 

for backlit alone, i'd take chicklet any day.

 

1. The Fn - Ctrl dilemma can be solved if it is possible to physically swap the key caps as well as swapping the logic in the BIOS.

2. I can't see why backlighting can't be applied to the 7 row keyboard. Dell has backlit and non-backlit options of its Latitude keyboards.

3. I prefer the Pg Up and Pg Dn keys near the front of the keyboard.

John

 

i don't think you'll see island/chiclet style keyboards on the traditional T/X/W series for a while. these laptops tend to only have cpu/chipset refreshes and nothing else that's major. an exception would be the displays. the move from 16:10 screen to 16:9 isn't something that Lenovo can really control.

you can look at dell latitudes and hp elitebooks. both companies haven't switched over their business laptops to the island/chiclet style.

the x1, edge, etc., aren't in the line with the traditional lineup, so you may see some newer technologies on those model. tradtional in a sense that there's a lineage for the model. eg., x30, x40, x60, etc etc.

 

I prefer the traditional Thinkpad keyboard. Not the new style checklist "Edge" design.

 

1. With the keys (Fn/Ctrl) being different sizes, I don't think it would be possible from an engineering standpoint.

2. Probably possible, but it would make an already 'thick' keyboard even thicker, and everyone likes a thin laptop.

 

I'd guess there's no backlighting due to the "spillproof" design. That's just a guess though.

 

The X1 keyboard is backlit and spill-proof, although it is a chiclet.

 

Lenovo will never switch ThinkPads to chicklet. Only cheapo fake ThinkPads get them.

 

The engineer's solution (I'm one) would be to make them the same size.

John

 

The X1 is getting one and it starts at $1400.

 

I don't consider the ThinkPad X1 as a real ThinkPad. Only x220/x201, W, T series are what I consider real ThinkPads.

 

Seems like a no-brainer!

 

1. Keep the 7 layer. I want all my keys please and thank you.

2. Keys themselves, chiclet since it seems to be better than the traditional in all ways except appearance.

3. Blue Enter Key. Its part of the charm.

4. F# keys should always be default mapped to the F# instead of their FN function imho.

5. On the idea of the middle mouse button as FN. I like this. A lot. Mainly because the spacebar is tiny on some keyboards. [rant]I'm looking straight at you Japan, and your convert, nonconvert, half/full width, and hiragana/katakana keys. I seem to be able to type your language perfectly fine without making my spacebar barely larger than twice a normal key.[/rant]

 

i rather like the blue enter key as well. i dont have a perference between chicklet or normal, except i feel chicklet might be easier to keep clean as the gaps seem tighter.
whats the difficulty of keeping a 7 row keyboard but making it a chicklet?on the 11" models i can understand, but on 12 and above it could easily have the F keys too.

i've tried both the chicklet and the normal and i find both great. the chicklet looks better though. cleaner.

i dont like the back/forward buttons, i'd much rather the page up and page down to be there.

personally i prefer the M4400's keyboard, the downside is it has some flex compared to the thinkpad, but other than that i feel its superior in terms of feel, texture, pressing force, etc. and the keys dont get shiny after years of use, unlike the thinkpad keys

 

The Best Feeling Keyboard Ever Put on a Laptop is: Tandy Model 100/102, from the 1980s.

Try one.

~

I write, and have written about 220,000 words on Thinkpad keyboards. The scissor-action ones feel good, but the the tension is a little high for my tastes, but then again, the I don't care for the pointer thingie because of the pressure needed to move it.

From my use, I find that the scissor action keycaps on my T61P rock, which is making it harder to type.

I actually like the new island/chicklet keyboard, but I'm not sure how it would feel after a few hours. Initially it feels good. In a quest for compactness, they might try to take the dish/concavity out of the keys; this would be a mistake.

I know how to make the new one feel even better, and Lenovo should give me a computer for this: use Delrin to make the keyboards, perhaps with just a little teflon in the mix to reduce the friction between the keys and the island. They would probably last longer, and feel just a little nicer --especially after a few months.

I agree with the previous poster in that the keyboards should be made interchangeable.

 

The browser back/forward buttons are useful as they are a unique keycode for binding stuff to. I have Dexpot set to use them as previous/next desktop.

 

There are plenty of 6-row keyboards out there, so if lenovo would hold on to the old-fashioned 7-row for as long as possible, that would be best.

 

The X1 is mainly aimed at non traditional thinkpad user, more like people whom would consider Mac Air but want a traditional business style laptop... so it is slightly different. Even the naming convention is not aimed at traditional Thinkpad user, X1... and not something like Xxxx.

 

How about a 7-row chiclet?

Personally, I like the typing feel on my T500 and X120e equally, as they both have a great feel and satisfying typing feel. I really do, however, appreciate the extra keys that the T500 has in its 7-row layout--while I can manage with the X120e, I often find myself missing the back/forward keys and the conveniently-placed Insert/Delete/Home/End block.

So I can't really vote in this poll. In terms of feel alone, I prefer neither--both are equally nice. In terms of layout, I prefer the traditional 7-row keyboard (and the blue Enter key!) by far.

 

Your post seems to have a built-in bias, based on very subjective experiences.

First off, I like the Blue Enter key. Saying it is "ugly" is your personal opinion, and subjective. Plenty of people think one or the other design looks good.

An easier typing experience is also subjective. I like more travel in my keyboard keys. Not everyone agrees with me, of course, but plenty of people do.

The aluminum Powerbook G4 had a backlit keyboard long before chiclets were common. This was carried through to the Macbook Pro as well. The same is true of Dell Latitudes. You don't need a chiclet keyboard to have a backlit keyboard.



Finally, a lot of people buy a ThinkPad for the Trackpoint. For them, a trackpad is secondary. Also, the T-series has gotten a larger trackpad without changing the keyboard with the new T420 and T520.

I'm not sure if there's any numbers to conclusively show a majority on either side, but there are plenty of people choosing a T-Series ThinkPad because it has the keyboard it has. If the T-series changed to chiclet, I'd find myself another brand of laptop next time around.

 

Hahaha I love that blue Enter key. I'm using a Lenovo keyboard on my workstation and both Enter keys are blue.

It's also that feel of a ThinkPad keyboard that you cannot beat, though I find the older D series Latitudes is on par with the ThinkPad keyboard.

Does Lenovo's chicklet keyboard have the spill drainage holes?

 

I seriously doubt any of the 'real' ThinkPads (T etc.) will ever switch to chiclet keyboards.

Chiclet = style over substance

Businesses don't care about style.

 

dont entirely understand what you mean. is there a away for me to remap them? if so, i'd be really grateful if i could remap them to pgup pgdn as its the ideal place for them IMO

 

I don't care for the placement of the keys, as long the typing experience is good. Either one of the Thinkpad keyboard would be great. I have type on both and they feel a slight difference but I can't pinpoint exactly tell how the two keyboard differ from each other. Overall the typing experience is fine on either keyboard as long as there is not a lot of flex.

As you could probably tell by now I am not that picky when it come to keyboard. But even so, I could tell the typing experience is a lot better when I am on a Thinkpad Keyboard.

 

from the flurry of reviews of the X1 out today, it seems like its chicklet keyboard does have the drainage holes.

 

There is substance in the chiclet design though, its supposedly better typing experience for some people at no expense to the rest of us and allows for thinner keyboards. There isn't much advantage the traditional keycap has over the chiclet ones beyond the nostaligic look. Try it, typing experience is just as good as chiclet, some even call it better.

@afh
I think he means having Dexpot virtual desktop software use back/fwd keys to switch between desktops.

On the topic of remapping keys, there's a registry hack to do that I think for Windows.

 

My decision point between a X120 and an X220 was the keyboard. I went to a Best Buy that has a couple of Lenovo display models, and tried both. No question, I wanted the traditional.

 

Do note that the X120e keyboard stroke depth is shallower than the other Thinkpad chiclets.

2mm vs 2.5mm for every other Thinkpad including Edge/X1

 

I used to like backlit keys.

Then I learned to type.

Kidding aside, I hope that they don't get rid of the top row... Hacking without SysRq can be a painful experience.

 

I don't find backlit keys useful either, but I can touch-type with my eyes closed --like right now.

I think backlit keyboards look cool, but I'm not paying what most vendors charge for "cool". If I really needed a light, the ThinkLight is enough, but I use it once in a blue moon.

 

Backlit keyboards are nice to have but aren't necessary. Production costs can't be that much more expensive over non-backlit and sales would generate additional profit for Lenovo.

I find I cannot do any productive work with any chicklet keyboard. I would prefer Dell's new squishy keyboard over chicklet.

 

Yep--some laptops with Lenovo's chiclet keyboard have drainage holes (ie: X1) while others do not (ie: X120e).

 

I don't care how big or heavy the laptop has to be, I want Buckling Springs in my ThinkPad's keyboard.



<--And she agrees with me.

 

dell charged me 5 pounds more for the backlit version. hardly a huge amount. and i touch type too, but when entering passwords, or leaning over the edge of your bed in the middle of the night, it is useful. 5 pounds is certainly worth the convenience....thats the price of a take away chinese meal!

 

Well, I have examples of both worlds: the 7-row, traditional ThinkPad keyboards on my T500 and X200, and the 6-row, backlit chiclet keyboard on my Asus G73. I'm a writer and have definitely logged quite a few words on the myriad of ThinkPads I have owned, but the Asus is my first chiclet.

I can function on both but I prefer the ThinkPad. The spacing between the chiclet keys on the Asus trips me up at times, even though the general key feel isn't that bad. The ThinkLight does have added uses beyond illuminating the keyboard; being able to read nearby documents as well as the fact the added ambient light helps me with eyestrain. I like both systems, but I'd be in absolute heaven if the G73 could miraculously take, say, a keyboard from a W700, for instance. I also greatly prefer my trackpoint over a touchpad, so I have some bias there as well.

 

IMO:
1. Keep the 7 row keyboard for the traditional (aka real) ThinkPad models.
In my experience with ThinkPad isolation keyboard and traditional, the traditional keyboard just feels better than chiclet. I also have less mistyped and missed characters (higher accuracy) on the traditional.
2. Maintain independent Function F1-F12 keys.
3. Maintain Fn key on outside to the left of Ctrl, however to satisfy non-ThinkPad loyalists (argh!) consider making Fn/Ctrl the same size so it can be physically swapped.
4. No Fn functionality on middle UltraNav button, that's blasphemy.
5. Maintain PgUp/PgDn in top corner as paging up/down makes more sense and feels better in the corner. Maintain back/forward in their current place above arrow keys.
6. Maintain Volume, mute, mic mute, ThinkVantage keys and power button on the very top. I don't think like them on the side as on the X1 as Power button is too easy to press when single handedly holding laptop up with right hand.
7. Keep the blue [Enter] key. To suggest otherwise is blasphemy!
8. Keep the useful LED indicator lights under the monitor! I like my Wifi, BT, mobile broadband, numlock, scroll lock, HDD, poewr on, battery connected. AC on, and sleep indicators visible in one place. Thank you! Though power on indicator can be a light ring around power button if need be (as on some ThinkPads).
9. Backlit+ThinkLight+drainage holes = Win/Win/Win! Never take away ThinkLight! I need it for reading dead-tree format notes in the dark!

 

I wouldnt be surprised if Lenovo introduced chiclet keyboard on all of their ThinkPad laptops, only difference could be more advanced chiclet on X/T/W series compared to current Edge series.
I think only one Edge laptop had slightly "enhanced" chiclet keyboard with enlarged delete and escape keys, it was either E420s or E220s, but that wouldnt be enough for me to choose it over current classic 7 row keyboard.
As for F1 vs function keys you change it in BIOS, at least on Edge 15 you can.

I find current Edge keyboard big and responsive, contrary to HP's ProBook 4x20s series that are shallow and small and with big gaps between tiny keys, real failure.

So, my opinion is I wouldnt mind chiclet as long as Lenovo keeps the layout with all the pg/home/end page frwd/bckwd keys and enlarged esc/delete keys and at the same time manage to add bigger trackpad.

 

I think it's like $37.50USD for that upgrade here in the States (for the upgrade on a Dell Latitude E6420). For me, that's the price of four Chinese meals.

I could afford it. However, it would benefit me very little considering how little I look at the keys when I type. Just give me F and J keys with finger-ridges that won't wear smooth over time, and I'm good to go.

 

thats before you consider the discounts they give after you add whatever you want to. the more you add, the bigger the discount. usually makes a lot of small upgrades almost free

 

One of the main reasons I got a T410 was because of Lenovo/IBM's keyboard. It's really nice and I like typing on it a lot. I've used my friend's business Dell keyboard and mine is a lot better.

Regarding a chicklet or a standard keyboard, it's really all about preference. I don't think I'd mind a chicklet keyboard as long as it gives me the ability to type as fast and gives good tactile feedback as my T410. After getting used to the trackpoint which I use quite often now without even realizing it, I wish more companies incorporated it into their design. While backlit keys are nice, I don't really find a need for them. The Thinklight is fine for illuminating the keyboard without being too bright/distraction.

I do agree that the Aluminium Powerbook G4 has a nice keyboard with backlit keys. The current MBPs are also nice but I think I'd hold off from getting one until it gets a redesign. I still think that the traditional keyboard is more functional than a chicklet one but like I've already said, my T410's keyboard is superior to my friend's Dell keyboard.

I've also gotten really used to Lenovo's Fn/Ctrl switch and find it weird to use another non-Apple laptop. It's actually not that bad once you get used to it.

 

If customers want it, Lenovo will keep making it. I'm pretty sure loyalists will demand that they stay with the 7 layer keyboard, so they will. I'm also pretty sure Lenovo won't be going glossy screens, non-removable batteries, and no docking ports either. Backlit keyboard's a maybe for a future traditional Thinkpad, assuming they can still fit the drain holes.

 

Right.. Could you point me to the new LENOVO 16:10 1440x900 IPS notebooks please?

 

Out of Lenovo's control. 16:10 displays aren't even manufactured anymore.

 

Apple still has them. Heck, their tablet has a 4:3 screen. HP's newest convertible tablet is also 16:10 and I believe that it came out this month? Lenovo is just conforming to other PC standards. Glossy screens and chiclets may be next.

 

Display manufacturers will produce what the market asks for (at a price) Obviously most notebook manufacturers have decide to go for the cheaper standard 16:9 screens instead of paying more for the 16:10.

I bet LG would start making 16:10 instantly if only Lenovo would order 500,000 of them

So true.. My point exactly, first the IBM logo disappears, regular keyboard, 4:3 and 16:10 screens, thinklight, matte display and hell, even the trackpoint will probably be next.. And the new Asus/Dell/Packard Bell is born!

 

Yep, ask me 5 years ago about chiclet keyboards, and I'd say that I'll probably die before I saw one on a Thinkpad. I'm sure others would've felt the same. Now look where we are at. Although it is true that Lenovo is creating other laptop "sub"lines to add conforming features, I wonder how long the X,T,W and L series can hold out. I reckon that it's a matter of time before the T and W series get chiclets (T120e anyone?).

 

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Interesting vid. I bet that Lenovo tested their typists with a WPM program (words per minute). Maybe I should set up something for those people that have both chiclet and traditional classic keyboards to see which one is faster? Of course speed is only one measure of a great keyboard, but it is important nonetheless.

EDIT: Updated OP, if you have both keyboards and some time (probably 3 mins), please take the tests! Thanks!

 

You'll notice that Apple is switching slowly to 16:9 (iMac and Macbook Air 11 inch). they can hold out because they probably had a big contract and bought a huge stockpile or something. Also the tablet is pretty much irrelevant to a laptop discussion, you might as well bring up the fact that they have a 3:2 phone.

Well it pretty much is out of Lenovo's control, if they held out, they probably would have to raise prices dramatically (16:10 screens would get more expensive as the economies of scale shrank), and do you really think they want to raise prices now? They had no choice. It's sad but it's true, we've seen a lot of great screens over the years get phased out because the production costs are too high in order for it to be economical.