The Upcoming ThinkPad X230, X230i, T430, T430i, T530, T530i and W530?

I personally think the Thinklight is a better solution. I use my Thinklight to illuminate papers and stuff or provide basic ambient lighting to avoid eye strain than as a method to illuminate the keyboard most of the time.

Backlit is a much better way to illuminate a keyboard, but it's not very useful for anything beyond that.

 

I would like to see both. That way the think light fans are appeased and those seeking the new tech of back lighting are also satisfied. This would not increase costs that much an I feel it would be a win win!

 

I think in this case the emphasis is on the layout, rather than the chiclet thing itself. The 7 row layout is gone, and the new chiclet layout has some keys missing.

 

Oh, that. Well, I'm rather disappointed by the absence of the 7-row layout myself.

 

I have more problems with the chicklets than with the number of rows.

People say that Lenovo's chicklets are the best available on the market, that reviews are very enthousiastic about them... but the slight problem is: as good as they may be, they're still chicklets. Inferior to legacy Thinkpad keyboards.

I have to use the x100e's chicklets, which is supposed to be very good. It's probably very good... by chicklets standards. In reality, again compared to true Thinkpad keyboards, it just sucks.

 

We have the X100e and X120e, and the E420 and E520 at work. I have an X61s at home, and once had a T60p. To me, the chiclets just don't scale down well at all. I don't know if it's the space between the keys, or the hard edges, or what, but they just feel more cramped than a similarly sized traditional Thinkpad keyboard. On the Edge models, though, while I fully admit it's not as good as the traditional keyboards, the chiclets are quite nice. Definitely better than all our non-Thinkpad laptops at work. That includes some mixed Elitebooks and Fujitsu T730's.

Now, where I suspect the chiclets are going to shine is 3-4 years down the road. My X61s has been in service for about 4 years, and I'm having to start thinking about a new keyboard because a lot of the keys have become pretty unresponsive. The travel is still perfect, but a lot of key presses just don't register. I'm thinking that a chiclet would let less dust and grime under there (I do live in the desert), and would age better.

But yeah, the 6 row layout is a deal breaker for me. There's no world where pgup and pgdn should be in a different area of the keyboard as home and end. I'm pretty militant about them being in the traditional relation to each other too, but being in different corners is totally unacceptable to me.

 

Perhaps because there's less key pitch in the X100e and X120e keyboards than the Edge keyboards (which have the same pitch as traditional Thinkpad keyboards)?

 

So does my X61s. I don't know about the key pitch in the X61s vs the X120e, but the gap in my preference between the X61s and the T60p compared to the X120e and the E520 is very much disproportianate. I just can't get used to the X120e machines even though I'm used to the smaller keyboard on my X61s. The E520 machines are just fine, though, so long as I don't have to actually work on them since the key layout blows.

 

The X series keyboards before the X200 generation were significantly smaller than the T series keyboards since there wasn't enough width to fit a full sized keyboard. The X220 uses the exact same keyboard assembly as the T and W series. All traditional keyboards have been 2.5mm pitch for a while though I believe. The new chiclets are 2.0mm, but the X100e/X120e keyboards were 1.5mm.

Also, Lenovo also uses multiple keyboard suppliers. There are pretty minor differences in feel between the same keyboard from different manufacturers.

The X100e keyboard has less key pitch depth compared to other chiclets and the traditional keyboards.

I would try an X1 keyboard, or a full sized Edge keyboard before saying that the chiclet keycaps are really inferior.

 

W530 with a Chiclet keyboard...

 

Is it me or does it look a bit thinner than it's predecessor.

Actually this is the computer I want when the Edge was first release, I guess gone back to my root, as for keyboard preferences.

 

Has Lenovo gone mad? I've got like 10 Thinkpads for 1 main reason, the keyboard.. and now they're changing it? Who's in charge there?

 

So, no browser back/forward keys, no menu key (replaced by Print Screen), no F-Key-Separation for blind typing... I guess that's it for Thinkpads as an industry standard.

Time to start buying all the T400/T500/W500/X200 you can get your hands on...

 

I just don't get this at all. Look at all that empty space above the F keys. They could have left the power button in the middle and had the seventh row up there like current.

 

Depth is less of a problem (to me), actually.

I have more gripes with chiclets by essence. Since such design involves isolated keycaps, finger tips are knocking the keycaps' edges whilst moving along the layout.
This very displeasing feeling wasn't present on Thinkpads' previous keyboards.

 

Except for the big whining about the new keyboard is there any indication of higher res screens for sub 15" ?

 

Do you mean higher res screens?

 

I wouldn't mind having a chicklet keyboard if they kept the 7 rows. But in overall design, I think the chicklet style kinda clashes with the rest of the TP design. The keyboard on the W530 just looks out of place.

 

Can you tell from the picture whether the Think Light is gone?

More importantly, when Lenovo makes an announcement about a new model, do they usually keep selling the old one for a while? Do they discount it? I'm hoping to see if there are any other major changes (especially to the screen) that would keep my from going for a W520.

 

yes they the E.O.L (end of life) W520 should go on discount to clear out the old stock.

The Thinklight should be gone now.

 

I think there is a ThinkLight, because there is enough room right of the webcam for the ThinkLight.

 

I love chiclet keyboards, so long as the keys have just the right amount of travel. Unfortunately, not digging the layout. They should have kept the old 7-row layout...

 

Where did you get this information from? If it is confirmed, then I should prepare selling my X220 asap.

 

it is not an issue of room, but rather now that the keyboard has backlight, the thinklight is now defunct according to Lenovo.

 

What if one could swap the current X220 palmrest with that of an X230, and the new touchpad was compatible?

 

I wonder how they come to these decisions regarding the ThinkLight, the keyboard and other changes they are making. Because clearly the majority of people who discuss these things online - enthusiasts if you will - are against these changes. So where do they come from?

I would think Lenovo does market research?

Is it then, that us "enthusiasts" / geeks / whatever have a differing opinion to that of the majority of users, who:

• prefer chiclet keyboards and do not care about typing experience (blind typing in case of missing F key gaps, extra keys for back/forward, home-end-pgup-pgdn in one island, etc)
• prefer keyboard backlight to ThinkLight, because it is more stylish?
• prefer a clickpad (X220/X230), because some other manufacturers use that

 

I don't have much faith in this, cuz if the physical buttons are back ,then it's likely that the number of rows of keys is likely to be reduced, resulting in a completely different layout.

 

Yet they managed to keep the latches on the upcoming W530... come on Lenovo, if you're that determined to follow (bad) trends, just remove them too. Look, the Macbooks don't have any, even on their 17" model!

 

I don't actually think they do. Though I'd be interested in seeing the numbers- of who actually bought an X1 over an X220 for the better "keyboard" (if you can indeed call it that).

Personally, I wish they would just split the series- rename the notebooks that don't have an option for interchangeable keyboards (assuming the mounting is different).
Call them the R series... sounding familiar?
So we can make do with the cheap look because it's designed to be a cheaper, low-end machine.

So we'd have the R530, with the "trendy" stuff, chiclet "keyboard", and the R530p (the imminent W530).
Also, the R230 (an X230 design with an X1's keyboard).

So that leaves the T and W series blank. Insert a decent keyboard on those machines and beef up the design a bit (so you still have the ThinkLight, the proper keyboard, and a bit better construction with plastics that don't crack as easily and better EMI shielding, for starters).

Until then, though, it's time to say goodbye to the brand. Unless the situation improves... well, I'm glad I have the last ThinkPad with an actual keyboard.

 

Lenovo introduced the Clickpad in its X-Series because there were too many complaints about the small Touchpad in the X201. In order to increase the Size, they had to integrate the buttons. In their X220 Video, they claim a size gain of 45% and seem very proud of it, even though they have basically ruined it.

 

I still find it unbelievable that they'll want to change the keyboard on the flagship T and W series. It almost seems a bit surreal.

I'm so totally used to the layout (including the home/end/PgUp/PgDown format) that I can't imagine having to get used to another different keyboard.

I'm honestly curious to know what exactly they can be thinking to want to make these wholesale changes to the only laptop brand I've ever wanted to use. I've always found it a joy to use my Thinkpads, leave them alone, and leave these changes to whatever IdeaPads or Edge laptops you want to make!

 

If you don't change, you don't move forward.

 

Exactly, I'm open to progresive changes! I will not judge it before handing it personally...

 

There's a risk you move backward.

 

True. But isn't there another saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it?

 

Well there is nothing wrong with the idea of a clickpad. Look at the MacBook Pro, they work like a charm (and I do love it). But the one on the x220 does not even come close to that.

 

Everyone makes notebooks with chiclet keyboards these days... Guess those of you who are more conservative may have to hold on to your notebooks a bit longer...

 

If you're going to change away from what people consider perfection, you better pull it off absolutely cleanly.
Nothing wrong with chicklet. They've screwed with the layout in a bad way.

 

Just becasue "everyone does ist" doesn't mean you have to follow. Don't Manufacturers want to be different and unique? After all, that's the way Apple does and it is the way IBM did it back then.

 

There is plenty of room for innovation in the form of the chassis, cooling solutions, audio, screen (much room for improvement there surely), weight considerations, power efficiency (many people want more battery life from their laptops), these are only the things that come to mind.

Messing with the aspect of the laptop that accounts for my productivity in my opinion is foolish, and they risk alienating the many people who, through the years, have built up a sense of familiarity with the Thinkpad. I almost wish this becomes a miserable failure, so that they will have to revert to the original keyboard.

Every time a new generation of Thinkpad comes out, I try to give myself a reason to splash out on a new toy - yes, the CPU upgrades over the past couple of generations have hardly been essentials to me. Sometimes I can't resist buying 2 or 3 different ones per generation, in fact. This time round, Lenovo has given me a perfect reason to skip one entire generation, since Ivy Bridge is hardly compelling, and this joke of a keyboard isn't something I need to get used to after almost a decade of using the same one.

 

You've not seen or touched it, but are ready to pronounce it a failure?

 

We've seen the future TP keyboard many times in this thread alone. I already said in that post I'm not denouncing chicklet or the feel of it. X1 seems to be very good in that regard. It's the layout that's irritating a lot of people.

 

My point remains, you've not even touched or seen it, outside of a picture, but are ready to say it's a failure? Why be so negative? The world is full of surprises. You may like it. The layout is not as important as the feel. I can adapt to the layout with time, but the firmness and pitch must be used to be quantified.

 

I'm pretty surprised about this keyboard change. I think I understand the main decision to move to chiclet keys (even while I might not like it), but so many of the surrounding issues don't make sense for a business-oriented notebook:

1) Why take away the seventh row? Clearly it's more cost-effective to use the same keyboard across all models and maybe a few of them don't have room for it in new designs, but it's unfortunate for the other models that have the space
2) Why make this change now, when there's not a major chassis change that could bring the benefit of thinner notebooks?
3) Why move some of the function key combinations, especially the media keys that used to be on the arrow keys?
4) Why remove numlock / the numpad? I don't use it often personally, but I'm surprised by how many people I know who do
5) Getting rid of the ThinkLight? I'm not ready to start entertaining that idea yet...

In regard to 3) and 4), I really think Lenovo has chosen aesthetics over function, which doesn't bode well for the brand in my estimation. I think they didn't want additional symbols "cluttering up" the keys, so they moved some of the shortcuts to the top and did away with the rest and the number pad. The keyboard is obviously aimed at consumers who never use home, end, insert, pause, the number pad...

In regard to 2), "why now?", I'm hoping--but not holding my breath--that this generation the new keyboard will simply be an option to test out market acceptance. It wouldn't be hard to make the new keyboard the same shape as the old one, and in the pictures it looks like this might be the case. If this was a chassis-change generation, the established and loved keyboard might be too thick, but since there won't be thinner notebooks this generation, it would be a perfect time to offer both keyboard options and let the market decide whether it's an acceptable move.

 

This, the amount of notebooks borrowing or imitating design elements of an Apple notebook these days is all becoming rather clichéd.

 

For the third time.. Not negative, the feel will likely be great if it's like the X1. I don't need to touch it to to know that deleting and moving important keys has been done for the worse. This isn't difficult. Sometimes sticking to this fanboi position is silly.

 

The awesome feeling (still speculative at this point) will take away all your needs for keys.

Would you count your money by the nice feel of the bills?

 

You can say it a 1,000 times for all I care. Dismissing it out of hand without using it seems shorted-sited. I'm not sticking to any position. It could turn out to be terrible, but I'll reserve judgment until I use it before declaring it worse.

 

It's kind of like when Ford Motor Company renamed the Taurus the Ford 500 until Alan Mulally took over as CEO explained to them they just gave up one of the best known brands in the auto industry - companies spend billions trying to build a reputation and brand. Thats exactly what Lenovo has in the ThinkPad keyboard and they are going to walk away from it just like that. Lenovo will end up doing what Ford did - switching back to it's original format and then spend millions marketing the change 'back'. Not to mention lost sales and customers....

 

that is actually the most sane opinion. Wait till you see it, sometimes moving away from something ''tried and true'' is a good proposition. I dont miss at all the dedicated pages, and used to use those a lot.

I miss a lot the feel of the lenovo keyboard in my mbp, however one thing I never saw IBM or lenovo do something great is in the touchpad area, be it buttonless or with it, it doesnt matter, they were always sub par. And no I dislike immensily the nipple, never saw the claimed precision or anything like that, I used the x61 extensively for work, and I was always finding myself looking and cursing for the lack of space for my mouse.