The truth about the newer models and keyboard flex..

THINKPAD KEYBOARD CHANGES

And finally – the updated T series keyboards. Yes, there is quite a visible change when you pull the keyboards off of a ThinkPad T400 system and look underneath. However, I have seen some data from our ThinkPad Engineering team that shows that the keyboards still have the same strength as the previous generation. There is no reason for me to doubt these data points nor the veracity of those engineers. I’d like to see some of our naysayers participate in a double blind study to see if they really can feel a difference. Otherwise this is just a tempest in a teapot. Just because it seems horrible doesn’t mean it necessarily is. Maybe if we had proactively marketed the change as reducing weight without impacting strength we might have been able to promote this positively. There’s probably a corporate lesson here.


http://lenovoblogs.com
/insidethebox/?p=155


Can anyone please confirm that this is true? if so, can all the naysayers STFU and stop spreading FUD (Fear, uncertainty, and doubt) ?

 

I have seen/used/examined the T400, it's just the same as the older models. Keyboard flexes but not like the flexes of a cheap laptop, and only noticeable if you press really hard. Other parts are just as strong as ever.

 

thta's straight from LENOVO

of course they're not going to admit that the keyboard has more flex

 

This is going to be a very long thread.

 

I've pulled the keyboard off my T61 and put the T400 keyboard on it. It has considerably less flex, ON THE LEFT SIDE, when mounted on the T61. Why? I noticed the T400 has some empty space under the keyboard in that area. This allows the keyboard to flex inward when you push hard enough. True that the swiss cheese metal on bottom adds to the flex, but it's a combo of both.

The T61 doesn't have this space between the keyboard and motherboard on the left side and thus, there is less flexing going on.

Point here is that the T400 keyboard isn't that bad. An older T60/61 keyboard WILL improve the flex to basically zero. However, if you're a little tight on cash, then you can just rig something under the keyboard to keep it from flexing into the empty space.


Just a last comment though. NMB on T400 is straight butta.

 

A friend of mine just got a 14" T400. I tried typing on it for a few minutes, and I did not notice any flex. How many people that talk about flex actually notice it while typing, versus think it might be there based on some picture they saw on the web?

I used a T43 for over a year, and I don't notice the T400 keyboard being inferior in any way.

- Miles

 

I'm not bothered by the keyboard flex on my T400, but it does hurt the perception of quality...it's a non-issue when i'm typing on it...the "legendary thinkpad keyboard" was far from the list of reasons I got a T400, so i really didn't care too much about it...that said, i was still disappointed and surprised how easily it flexes near the 'W' and 'S' keys...i have to disagree with others who say you have to push hard...it doesn't take much pressure at all!...i'm not going to rush out and replace a new keyboard with an old model's, but you can't deny the flex is there...the keyboard on our Dell 600m actually takes more pressure to exhibit flex, but of course i still like the T400 better...for the record, the dell did serve our purposes well.

 

I just received my T400, and the flex is VERY noticeable and VERY obvious. I noticed it immediately. It is as bad as my old Dell Inspiron 8600 from a few years ago. My T61 (work-issued) has zero flex.

This is not a deal breaker, as I have already ordered a T61 keyboard to replace it.

I just can't believe that that they changed it. As the addage goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

It really is unforgiveable, as one of the best features of the IBM/Lenovos has always been their superior keyboards. What a shame.

 

I think most of the people here are speaking from firsthand experience, especially as more T400s are delivered. I certainly am; I definitely find the keyboard feel of the T400 to be inferior to that of earlier models. It's not about what the keyboard looks like, or pictures on the web. It's just the tactile experience of typing. Maybe I tend to hit the keys hard when I type, but for whatever reason, it's a prominent difference to me.

I would LOVE to participate in this. There's no doubt in my mind that I could tell the difference in a few seconds. I know--I compared my old T40 and my new T400 side-by-side, and there was an obvious difference (one that has now been erased by replacing my T400's keyboard).

 

Which keyboard did you put in your T400? T40 or T61?

I agree with you the flex is very noticeable and the feel of the keyboard is different. That said I like my new T400.

 

I very much like my T400 as well. I replaced the keyboard with one from a T60. (The T40 keyboard uses a different connector.)

 

how long will you be able tyo buy t60 keyboards?

 

Does anyone have the direct to the older keyboards?

I only come up with replacement stand alone type keyboards
on their parts/accessories pages.

Thanks, just order a T400 and am curious how much it is to replace it.

Thanks,
Sean

 

Yaknow, regardless what a lot of people have been saying here, you may just find that you like the keyboard the way it is. =)

 

I am finding that the keys don't register as well as they did on my T60 and T40. Different feel. Not sure why Lenovo felt they had to make a change.

 

to make the machine lighter, as he said above.

 

Yes I have read that post but I don't agree. A couple of ounces saved that results in a lot of keyboard flex. Not a good trade off in my mind. Contrary to what some posts have said you don't have to press hard to have the keyboard flex on both the left and right hand sides. The middle is much better. Perhaps more mounting posts would have been a solution if they felt they really needed to drill out the base plate.

In practice one may have all sorts of things in one's laptop bag and a few ounces is not going to make any difference. And carrying the T400 in one's hand across the room...is a few ounces that important?

The could also have used thinner plastics, removed the mag alloy roll cages and ended up with a cheaper and lighter laptop all round.

As more people start to use the T400s I think we'll be hearing more about this issue.

 

Let me just start out to say that I'm a first time Thinkpad user and I've had my T400 for about 2 weeks now and I love this laptop. I didn't really find the "flex" that Kevin described to be a big deal and I probably would have thought nothing of it had I not been browsing the forums regularly. Initially I was not going to replace the keyboard on my machine but after reading over and over about the dissapointment in the keyboard, I decided to see what the fuss was about and ordered an NMB keyboard (from upgradebay). I recieved it today, and to my slight dismay they sent me the equivalent Chicony Keyboard (so users beware if you decide to order from upgradebay, my case is not the first you can read about another case on the thinkpad forums).

All I can say is that it is a shame that lenovo had to go and change the keyboard. It really does feel different and there is virtually no flex. The machine feels like even more of a Tank and I think I might have fallen in love all over again. I can see why past thinkpad users are disappointed in the current generation keyboard. I'm not saying its bad to make changes to the keyboard, but I think that the savings in weight do not outweigh loss in structural integrity of the keyboard.

Now with all that being said, whether it is worth the (almost) 60 bucks to upgrade the keyboard is a different issue. If you have not taken a bite from the apple, its probably better to stay that way. The current keyboard works great and if you the flex doesn't bother you then just leave it. On the other hand, If you're even the least bit curious and have the extra cash, I would say get a previous gen T60(which is what I got) or a T61 keyboard.

 

I too ordered a T60 keyboard when I ordered the T400 based on complaints by others.

My initial thoughts upon receiving the keyboard was that there was much more flex than my old T42. Especially near the top right and left hand sides of the board. Then after I used it for a few days I really didn't notice the difference anymore. I guess you just get used to it.

Today I received the T60 keyboard from upgradeby (I was also sent a Chicony board - boooo). But once you put it in there really is a difference. Way more solid.

Moral of the story: I agree with Aestiel.

PS: aside from the flex, I find the T60 board to have better response feel. Whereas the T400 keyboard felt "softer."

 

I didn't notice any flex when going from my T60 to T400, I do type very lightly. My T60 keyboard is pretty worn out so i wouldn't put it on the new T400

 

heh, my desktop microsoft keyboard flexes, the whole key area sinks in when i press hard on the keys.

 

Good to hear about your experiences. I agree the integrity of the keyboard is more important than a few ounces.

I am a long time TP user and I think the T400 is a wonderful machine. It's way better in so many ways to other PC laptops.

The LED display is really really good. I had an SXGA+ display before and I thought I would miss the resolution but the 1440x900 resolution with LED back light is so much brighter and very crisp.

Why did you go with the T60 as opposed to the T61? Is there any difference?

Did you talk with upgradebay and would they have exchanged for an NMB?

Kevin's review was right on the mark!

Enjoy your machine.

 

I'm really enjoying the LED display too (mine came with the LG panel). although the viewing angles are poorer than most, It's a non-issue for me since as the sole user of the laptop. As long as it looks great straight on, thats all that matters.

There is no particular reason that I went with the T60.. except for perhaps a lack of knowledge? lol
I was reading the thinkpad forums and someone had found the T60 NMB keyboard at the upgradebay site (Although they just send you the Chicony one). A few days after using my T400 and debating whether the price was worth the unknown benefit, curiosity got the best of me and I ordered the T60 keyboard. I questioned whether I should go for the T61 keyboard but nobody really had any part numbers for it so I just stuck with the T60 since Kevin's worked.

Currently if you go to the Thinkpad forums they have the part numbers listed for the T61 keyboards, and supposedly a few NMB T61 keyboards are (or were) in stock at the ibm website.

As far as asking for an exchange for the NMB keyboard, I haven't had a chance to do it yet (I'm going to do it tomorrow). I'm going to at least complain that I ordered the NMB keyboard, and that they shouldn't list it in stock if it actually isn't. Granted the Chicony keyboard is an "equivalent" part, it's misleading for the consumers who actually want the NMB keyboard.

 

As a first time T400 user i think the keyboard is an upgrade vs anything i've ever used. I think the strength of the older thinkpad probably gave the keys a little more bounce overall but from an old asus to a thinkpad definitely feels like a very good upgrade. Any user who has never had a good keyboard on a laptop before will find the default T400 perfectly fine.

 

The more I use it the more I'm in love with the T60/T61 keyboard. If you have $60 to burn I'd highly recommend it.