ThinkPad T431s / X230s Leaked

The new keyboard is still a lot better than every other keyboard out there, even if it is missing important keys. The Trackpoint, feeling a bit iffy. I haven't gotten a chance to use the non discrete button machines yet but I'm not a fan.

If they remove the Trackpoint entirely or the new buttons really really suck, I'm switching to EliteBook or Tecra. MacBooks don't have trackpoints, nor any wonderful durability and connectivity features.

 

The MacBooks are hit or miss, the body is incredibly durable thanks to the unibody but I believe the screen is glass (!). So close, yet so far.

 

Durabile compared to a cheap Wintel, but it doesn't hold a candle to something like a Thinkpad or Elitebook. I think that's the point Pseudorandom was getting at.

 

I have the opposite experience. The glass touchpad found on MacBooks is way superior to anything else I've tried. Whenever I sit with a Windows laptop and their touch pads/trackpoints I feel crippled. Fluidity, drivers and gesture support is very important as well. The OS and drivers needs to evolve to support such gestures. You'll get more of that with Windows 8. While it is a blatant copying, I am glad we see more of these bigger buttonless touchpads coming.

 

I think the MacBook's trackpad is great, mostly because OSX provides such good integration for it. Lenovo better have some awesome windows integration to even come close, since everyone else has failed miserably. I know for certain the classic trackpoint works great on many operating systems as well, so it is a shame that Lenovo took a gamble to go button-less.

 

Except for those of us who do real work. I'm a developer and have to do lots of object dragging by holding down left click then using the pointer to move the object. I also have to do a lot of right clicking to access items on the context menu. These integrated buttons from a practical perspective make both those tasks much more difficult.

Additionally, buttonless touchpads tend to be larger resulting in accidental palm brushing when typing. I've lost count the number of times my cursor jumps to the middle of a paragraph I've already written and I start typing in the middle of another sentence.

Changes like this are for the sake of aesthetics and change for changes sake. If touchpads used to be a single pad then someone added two physical buttons everyone would rave how much of an improvement it was.

Some things are just best left alone.

 

I kind of agree, though I'm not completely convinced that a buttonless trackpad can't be better than one with buttons. At least with the track point even if the buttons are integrated dragging is not a problem. Actually now that I think about it for the track point it's not as big a deal in theory because the movement is all from the nub and the buttons only act as buttons. My previous poor experience with integrated buttons has been because, as you said, when you have to click and drag using an integrated touchpad it often thinks you're trying to do a two finger zoom or other gesture, or just flips out completely, but for the trackpoint you still only need one finger on the touchpad part so there's no ambiguity. For my current laptop I basically stopped using the fake buttons completely, because they were so unreliable, in favor of just using gestures like double tap click to drag and two finger tap to right click and I'm not completely sure that it's worse than having buttons there. That's why I want to get a Thinkpad, so that I can use the trackpoint. Hopefully it's not worse than with physical buttons. Besides that I, as a non thinkpad owner, really like the new design but obviously my perspective is quite different from yours (besides the fact that I really care about having good input devices as a developer).

 

I am always curious about comments like this from coders. Do you not use a desk with a keyboard, mouse and external display? I can't imagine coding using just the notebook. Especially with no mouse.

 

I use my laptop for coding all the time without issue. A single 1080p monitor is fine for what I do (though I can always hook up to my 1080p TV too) and the keyboards on my laptops are comfortable enough to code on for a few hours. Obviously, the desktop's keyboard is better, but most of the time I'm not at home and able to use it. As for a mouse, the TrackPoint is good enough.

Just my two cents.

 

Sure. Virtually all traveling "consultants" (Accenture, say) do software at client sites using notebooks. (I did my share!)

This is the thing. You "just can't" live without a mouse.

 

Yea, but I take a wireless mouse everywhere I go.

Maybe that is why I am less concerned about the changes to trackpads and buttons. The percentage of time I actually use them is really low so the impact to me isn't great.

I am curious to hear how the T431s fairs in real world use. My expectation is that it meets or exceeds the qualities of the Apple glass trackpad on the MacBook Air, Retina MacBook Pro, etc.

 

In my company most developers use mouses, but one or two people just use the trackpoint on a Dell.

 

I always use my wireless mouse at the desk, with the screen tilted back and a 24" monitor connected. Can't get on with Desktop keyboards. The number pad makes the mouse further away, which gives me shoulder pains so I use the narrow laptop keyboard instead - another reason the keyboard is so important to me.

I do however use the touchpad if I'm working on the train or doing a bit of coding at home on the sofa with the laptop on my lap!

 

There we go.

Emphases added. Serious development work, all day long, all week long, "requires" a serious mouse.

 

Just to throw one example out there, when I'm called into meetings I usually just grab the ThinkPad and nothing else. The trackpoint certainly isn't as fast as a mouse, but it's 75% of the way there.

 

The underlying point is that buttons are better than no buttons for every possible reason other than aesthetics. With business notebooks, aesthetics don't need to bow to consumer whims.

So why change it?

 

Some impressions about the new TrackPoint-buttons (free-translated from German, taken from here, not from me):

 

I personally, and a couple of my colleagues, do a lot of software development. Quad-core laptop with 32GB RAM provides very adequate performance for development even with several VMs running. At least 2 big monitors is pretty much a must, 3 is better. So is the external keyboard with TrackPoint. Mouse, while still connected to the docked station, is used few times a week, at best : for coding in particular, where there is a lot of typing and not so much of extended periods of cursor navigation, Trackpoint really shines. Plus can press a dock button, and move the whole development setup out of the office, sacrificing only the screen real estate, not keyboard shortcuts or cursor navigation movements.

This was awesome with T/W 510/520 series, got broken with W530, and, the way things are going, will be worse with T/W540.

 

Thank you for the information. It's always good to hear how people use their machines in the real world. My W530 is docked a lot right now so I am using three external displays, keyboard, mouse, KVM, virtualization, etc.

 

Hmm, are they going to release T431s by mid April (initial target date)?

 

Given that this is Lenovo, I'm willing to bet "no".

 

Well, here in Germany, there are already several resellers, who list the T431s. Availability will be in week 17/18, according to these resellers.

 

how can i scroll using trackpoint now ?
oh dear god. seems like they start throwing all the thinkpad feature one by one.

first keyboard layout > island style
battery > non removable
trackpoint non clickable now.

 

...
TrackPoint eventually removed?
And/or build quality heavily suffers?

Lenovo's heading down a bad path here, if you ask me. :/

 

No, not really. Bad screens stay. Pieces of plastic that crack, creak, or just don't fit together well -- they stay.

 

...press the middle TrackPoint button???

See this post, first user experience is good.

The build quality of the T431s is probably miles ahead from T430s, because they have dropped optical drive and the removable battery. So the answer is: No.

 

I'm weary of absolute, definitive answers like this one. No "maybe," "possibly" and "probably" needed.

 

Then tell me: How should the build quality suffer? The Base is completely made out of Magnesium, the palmrest is plastic with a additional roll-cage underneath. They have dropped optical drive (good for stability) and the replaceable battery (also good for the stability, no wobbling battery anymore). Also, the latches are gone, so no more wobbling of the screen if the notebook is closed (like on T420), and they finally replaced the rubber bumpers with a rubber lip. The lid is made of Carbon-Fiber. Again, how should the build quality (heavily!) suffer?

Also, according to "The Verge", the new rubber paint feels better than the old one.

 

You mentioned "build quality," then you proceeded to list various materials and components (or lack thereof).

Hmm...

 

No one will be able to say much about build quality until these have been in use for a couple of years...until then, it's all sheer speculation.

 

Wow, I didn't know the battery wasn't removable. That seems like an annoying change, although the only ThinkPad I've had to change the battery on is the relatively old x60s. I suppose the plan now for ThinkPad ownership is to sell it after a couple of years before the battery gives way.

 

The hard drive, battery, mSATA drive, etc. are removable.

 

But is it customer-replaceable with a CRU?

Not mSATA, but M.2 (NGFF, Next-Generation Form Factor) SSD, right?

 

I won't tell if you don't.

When the battery is under warranty, you would obviously want to follow the warranty procedures for defect replacement. After the warranty expires, you can certainly replace it with genuine Lenovo batteries.

Regarding the mSATA comment, I said mSATA because most people don't know yet what M.2 is. I guess it is time to start the education process.

My point was, they can all be replaced and from my review of the Hardware Maintenance Manual, replacement isn't all that difficult if you have the right tools and skills.

 

When will the T431s be on sale? Thats still the BIGGEST question.

 

The file link at first page is dead, anyone know what is the display resolution of X230s? I hope it's 1600x900 at least

 

I was really looking forward to the T431s, but I will not purchase one due to these inexcusable problems:

• Still no IPS display option
• Soldered memory (4GB) on-board

Datasheet

 

Can't say much about the display but only one slot is soldered, there's still a free slot.

 

Max RAM capacity is 12GB on the T431s which should be more than sufficient for most people.

The screen should be similar if not identical to the T430s.

 

Well, not identical, the FRUs are different. Also, the PSREF says "400:1" contrast, not 300:1 like on T430(s). But still, not a big difference, and the new screens will be maybe nearly as the old ones.

 

Good point. I didn't pick up on that in the tabook.pdf until you mentioned it. Better contrast should help. Like a lot of people, I keep hoping for a better 14" panel.

Have any of you seen the prices associated with all of the models listed in the tabook?

And FYI, there appears to be an error in the tabook, as usual. Clearly the T431s comes with a smartcard slot. However, tabook says it doesn't have one. Whenever I see something like that, all of the other data becomes suspect.

 

1000$ laptop with a 10$ screen. Waste of time.

 

First "Hands-On" Video in the Internet with the T431s: Lenovo ThinkPad T431S hands-on: business facelift | CNET TV | Video Product Reviews, CNET Podcasts, Tech Shows, Live CNET Video

As I said: Red stripes are there!

 

I think that video is a little old, right?

The pics at ThinkPad T431s | Premium Business Ultrabook With Windows 8 Pro | Lenovo (US) look more representative to me.

 

Nope, this video is just from today Pictures at lenovo.com are showing prototypes. The user guide also shows the red stripes.

It is the same thing as last year: Pictures on the Lenovo site showed the new ThinkPads with a blue ThinkVantage button and a blue FN-key, the user guide and the final production models had a black ThinkVantage Button and a grey FN-key.

 

Yeah, red stripes are there, on that demo unit in the hands of Scott Stein.

In the final product, they would be a $15 upgrade option, or they could be ordered as a replacement item for $80.

 

Nail polish is cheaper.

 

I will be happy if they improve upon just two items, a better screen and a MBA comparable touchpad.

 

Its mid April and NO NEWS about sale of he T431s? Well done, Lenovo.

 

It's listed on the UK site. Complete without the red lines on the touchpad