ThinkPad T60 Screen is Amazing

I received the ThinkPad T60 from Lenovo this Friday and just wanted to post a couple of pics and let everyone know how ecstatic I am about the screen. It's certainly the best ThinkPad screen experience I've had, and I've gone through a lot of 'em. The viewing angles are seemingly limitless with little to no color distortion and the brightness is very good. I've uploaded some pics of the screen from various angles and alongside the new Dell e1705 laptop with a TrueLife screen. I'll post more on the T60 for Monday.



the specs for the T60 I have are the 2623-D3U SKU you see in the above chart. In the pictures with two screens below the ThinkPad T60 is on the left, the e1705 is on the right.

 

and some more pictures of just the T60, notice the color and brightness remain true even from very wide angles. Sorry for any blurriness, it's one of those "you need to see it in person" to appreciate how nicely the screen behaves in various angles of viewing.

 

Thanks, abaxter. This is so good to hear--I guess I am one who has foolishly fretted about a drop in Thinkpad quality.

Thanks again.

 

and as an example for comparison of what often happens with LCD displays when you view from a high or low angle (not perpendicular) let's look at the Dell Inspiron B130 screen from a few angles.

Notice the colors and contrast completely change depending on the angle of looking at the B130 screen, almost to the point it's hard to view.

 

what do those graphics terms mean .. M52-64?

 

ewww ogre love...

but nice thinkpad =)

 

I'm missing this :centrino: sticker at the photo most right.
Ow, and of course, nice pics and I'm looking forward to the review and more pics

 

hi abaxter, i know you'll post a complete review soon, but does your T60 run cooler and quieter than t43 or t42? thank.

chris

 

WOW!! Looks very sweet, thanks alot abaxter

M52 - Ati Mobility Radeon X1300
M54 - Ati Mobility Radeon X1400
M56GL - Ati Mobility Radeon X1600
and guessing the 2nd number is the ram

Good 'ol Lenovo Australia, the only t60 we get is a 14" 1024x768 with integrated graphics WTF!! T series in Oz But we do get the 'Olympic Edition' Z series ... Woo ... Hoo

Cheers

 

Oh god, I hate thee I cant even get my Z60m yet and it is outdated on many levels already.

 

So is this just becuase you have an IPS screen?
Cause those results are unreal to say the least ... AMAZING. Quality deteriorates with photos and yet they look this good.

But the prices are high ... it seems they are back to pre lenovo days, when $3500 was a common occurrence

 

hmm, a T60 with an x1600 could give the Asus V6J a serious run for its money! infact it seems to be the best standard 15" dual core out so far! (in terms of gaming potential)

 

I thought the T60 wasn't going to use the x1600?

 

> ...
> So is this just becuase you have an IPS screen?

Yes, the 15" IPS FlexView TFT-panels are in many aspects much better than the usual standard panels, especially related to viewing angels, contrasts and colorings.

 

abaxter - Have you experienced with the Flexview screens on earlier T-series, i.e. T42/T43? If so, does the Flexview screen on the T60 differs somehow?

 

Here is my T42 with FlexView for comparative purposes.

 

Does Lenovo use the S-IPS ( Super In Plane Switching) LCDs from LG.Philips?

They have a nice cyber tour on their website, explaining the advantages and the technology of S-IPS. (takes a while before it's loaded)

 

In the T42/T43 Lenovo used an LG IPS (not S-IPS) panel - the LP150E05 from this page:
http://www.lgphilips-lcd.com/homeContain/jsp/eng/prd/prd300_j_e.jsp

I'm not sure whether LG-Philips (or anyone for that matter) has true 8-bit S-IPS panels for notebooks.

 

The T60 model 2623-D3U 15" SXGA+ IPS TFT is also from LG-Philips, just the T60 15" UXGA IPS TFTs will probably be from BOE-Hydis instead.

Note that LG-Philips only lists some older TFT-panels online and that they have some more panels in their program than those listed publicly on their website.

 

Thanks for the information. I guess your right, they only use IPS and not S-IPS.

Do you've any idea why they don't use S-IPS? (drains too much power, too expensive?)

 

To prevent possible misunderstandings here, I used the term IPS in general like Lenovo does, which means related to LG-Philips panels, that this might be what LG-Philips calls nowadays S-IPS panels. I don't know for sure if LG-Philips distinguishes between IPS and S-IPS in that way, or if they also still build plain IPS panels at all. - So I used the term IPS in a general way for those via in plane switching technology build TFT-panels.

And most notebook tft-panels have just a 6-bit color depth in order to reach ~262,144 colors.

 

So there won't be any IPS 14" screens, just as was the case with the previous T series?

Is it simply that no one makes the screens in 14", or is it that lenovo/Ibm never used them?

 

I think there is improvement. Mainly with the light leakage when looking from above. Plus a bit crispier/sharper.

Right?

 

WOW the T60p is one sweet setup, but it's SOOOOOOO expensive (and I can just imagine how much more expensive it would be here in Canada).

 

Will the T series soon put such new ips screens on their 14 inch models? Or even dare I say it have such screens made for their X-series? JL

 

I have a feeling once this review comes out there is going to be an influx of orders for a T60. I may be included in that.

 

I'm very curious about the review, but why do you think that will happen?
I hope there is coming info about more models available soon, though...

 

Thanks Zaz. I wish I could say the T42 I used had FlexView so I had a better benchmark to compare too, but the T42 I used was a regular 14" SXGA. Pictures can only convey so much but it looks to me like the T42 FlexView provides very good view angles, but the T60 maybe be slightly better from what I can tell based on these pics.

 

Well since the last couple of models some people have been talking about a supposed decrease in workmanship of the Thinkpads, a glowing review claiming that all has been saved coupled with the latest technology (since other models have been lagging a bit behind) will imo push people back to the thinkpad line.

 

Related to 14,1" standard 4:3 panels with "in planar switching" (IPS, S-IPS, FFS etc.) technology, I haven't seen any so far from a panel supplier like IDTech, LG-Philips, Samsung, BOE Hydis, AUO, TMD (Toshiba Matsu****a Display), Sharp etc.

Even there are brighter 14,1 TFT-panels available, none of these offers the same higher viewing angles like specific 15" IPS panels here.

For 12,1" TFTs there will be an 12.1" UltraLight XGA display for the X60s series, which is supposed to be ~25% lighter and up to ~20% brighter than the standard 12.1" XGA display.

Further note, that most panel suppliers nowadays tend to build glare type TFTs, but IBM/Lenovo uses mate business style TFTs.

 

Ah, OK! I get it now.

 

I'm looking on Tabook and on Lenovo's website and it list the model Abaxter has as using an ATI GL v5200. Is that comprable to a x1600? I wanted to use my notebook for gaming also, so a x1600 will be alot better than a x1400 . Does the ATI GL take regular Radeon drivers?

 

It _is_ the X1600, with different drivers and a different name.

Yes. It will make it look like an X1600, will even say it's an X1600 and you may gain some performance (5%-10%).

 

So the SXGA+ should be just like the current LG Flexviews on the T42 and T43. Rumor says that they are a bit better than the IDTech Flexviews used on the same T42 and T43 - less ghosting, shadowing. I don't know what zazonz has and whether the subjective feel that the T60 screens show better quality (judging by the pics) is due to the actual differences in the panels or just due to imperfection of the pictures.

As far as I know, the S- in S-IPS refers to an improvement of the technology that allows for 8-bit color (instead of the 6-bit of regular IPS and TN panels) and lower response time. LG-Philips _do_ distinguish IPS and S-IPS, as you can see if you look at their desktop monitor line versus notebook monitor line. IDTech doesn't seem to distinguish. In any case, the Flexview panels are plain IPS, not Super-IPS.

 

At LG-Philips from those 15" notebook application panels listet, just the LP150E05 is an IPS (IPS not S-IPS) panel. And yes, as I saw now in an panel overview document from them, S-IPS panels are there only listed and named for desktop monitors and TV modules, so they do distinguish between IPS and S-IPS.

Boe Hydis FFS panel technology, whose panels are used in some TP 15" IPS UXGA models, is also based on an slightly enhanced IPS technology, but it's still refered to under the usual term IPS at least by IBM/Lenovo.

 

Great, thanks for the response. Pending a review from Abaxter and to see if the T60 fixes the heat issue I'm sold on the T60p :buyIBM:

 

I'd be interested to hear/read (in the review, posts, etc) if the speakers have improved in ThinkPads now that they have better GPUs.

Also at those prices & solid build quality I'd like to see a standard 3 yr warranty.

 

"For 12,1" TFTs there will be an 12.1" UltraLight XGA display for the X60s series, which is supposed to be ~25% lighter and up to ~20% brighter than the standard 12.1" XGA display."

I recently spoke with an IBM rep, who told me that the new "ultraLight" on the new X60, was rated at 180 nits, 30 more than the "normal" 12 inch screens. I told him that was one of the most foolish claims I've ever heard. 180nits is still dim. They should call it Ultra-Average. Not sure what they're smoking at lenovo. Or is it their ventilation system?

 

I believe they're ready for shipment.
http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/s...000001&catalogId=-840&langId=-1&re=tptevp_tab

 

Yeah if anyone can post up when representatives are estimating ship dates on this I would appreciate it.

 

Lenovo lists the model Abaxter has (2623-D3U) as using the ATI X1400:

http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/s...yId=2049168&dualCurrId=1000073&catalogId=-840

The FireGL v5200 (X1600) model is the T60p, which is not the model Abaxter has ...

 

Actually, if the screen lives up to that claim, then it would indeed be of above average brightness - here are some independent lab results that were posted previously by vykr in another thread:

As you can see, 180 nits wouldn't be too bad compared to a lot of laptops. Chances are the screen won't actually manage that, though, but it should still be decent.

 

I was trying to get the same scene in Shrek, but did not have time to find it.

 

can you give a sample picture of t60 with some dark background?

 

Note however, that those above from trippytiger referenced TFT lab results were only for notebooks with 14" TFT panels.

The panels of Thinkpads models with a 14" 4:3 SXGA+ TFT panel are - sadly said- always not this well. For example, below are luminance measurements of 9 dispay regions for a T41p, were the maximal value of 131 cd/cm² is only reached in the center of the display:

Code:

 96,3 cd/cm²    112,0 cd/cm²     104,4 cd/cm² 
108,3 cd/cm²    131,0 cd/cm²     108,4 cd/cm² 
100,6 cd/cm²    122,0 cd/cm²     109,7 cd/cm² 

The measurements for the 8 brightness settings points of the T41p display resulted to the following values:

1: 12,0 cd/cm² 2: 18,8 cd/cm² 3: 25,7 cd/cm² 4: 36,3 cd/cm² 5: 49,0 cd/cm² 6: 67,7 cd/cm² 7: 95,0 cd/cm² 8: 130,8 cd/cm².


In contrast here an R50p with a 15" 1600 x 1200 Pixel (UXGA IPS) FlexView TFT gives for a 9 regions measurement:

Code:

136,5 cd/cm²    144,6 cd/cm²     139,9 cd/cm² 
139,9 cd/cm²    153,5 cd/cm²     155,5 cd/cm² 
153,9 cd/cm²    149,9 cd/cm²     165,4 cd/cm² 

...so a max. value of 165,4 cd/m² for the lower right panel region. The overall brightness distribution is 82,5 %.


Here are some other Thinkpad models luminance datas from 9 dispay regions measurements (showing the max. on battery and ac power):

Thinkpad T43p (2668-F8G #UC3F8UK), 15" Flexview 1600 x 1200 Pixel (UXGA):
- Average max. luminance on ac power: 136,60 cd/m²
- Average max. luminance on battery power: 82,80 cd/m²
- Brigthness difference between the most light und dim area on battery power is 34%.


ThinkPad T42 (2373K1G / UC2K1UK), 14,1" 1024 x 768 Pixel (XGA):
- Average max. luminance on ac power: 109,50 cd/m²
- Best of the 9 screen segments showed 134 cd/m², worst 85 cd/m², others between 103 und 122 cd/m².
- Average max. luminance on battery power: 66,60 cd/m²


ThinkPad R52 (UN34CGE, 18464CG), 15" 1400 x 1050 Pixel (SXGA+):
- Average max. luminance on ac power: 116,80 cd/m²
- Average max. luminance on battery power: 65,00 cd/m²


ThinkPad Z60m (2373K1G / UC2K1UK), 15,4" 1280 x 800 Pixel (WXGA):
- Average max. luminance on ac power: 111,50 cd/m²
- Average max. luminance on battery power: 112,60 cd/m²
- Brigthness difference between some screen sectors is slightly over 30%.


Thinkpad Z60t (25113BU), 14" 1280 x 768 Pixel (WXGA):
- Average max. luminance on ac power: 114,10 cd/m²
- Average max. luminance on battery power: 55,50 cd/m²
- Brigthness difference between some screen sectors on battery until 53%.
- Brigthness difference between some screen sectors on ac power until 42%.


Thinkpad X41 (2525-6NG US26NUK), 12,1" 1024 x 768 Pixel (XGA):
- Average max. luminance on ac power: 124,20 cd/m²
- Average max. luminance on battery power: 81,30 cd/m²
- Brigthness difference between some screen sectors on battery until 19,5%.
- Brigthness difference between some screen sectors on ac power until 25,8%


And here is instead some comparision data for mostly subnotebooks with 12" TFT panels, but among the list are also notebooks with a 7,2" TFT panel (Libretto U100), 10,6" TFT (Averatec 1000), one with a 13,3" TFT (Sony S4M) and one 14" Wide-TFT notebook (Asus W3400V):

• Thinkpad X41 12" XGA
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 270:1/172:1
  - Brightness distribution: 90%
  - Luminance: 22...125 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./top/bottom: 50°/ 60°, 25°
• Acer TM 3000 12,1" WXGA
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 327:1/204:1
  - Brightness distribution: 79%
  - Luminance: 35...173 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./top/bottom: 45°/ 60°, 25°
• Asus W3400V 14" WXGA
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 499:1/291:1
  - Brightness distribution: 85%
  - Luminance: 0...190 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./top/bottom: 50°/ 30°, 65°
• Averatec 1000 10,6" WXGA
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 294:1/222:1
  - Brightness distribution: 85%
  - Luminance: 20...180 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./top/bottom: 50°/ 30°, 60°
• Dell Latitude X1 12,1" WXGA
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 430:1/261:1
  - Brightness distribution: 80%
  - Luminance: 25...145 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./top/bottom: 50°/ 60°, 30°
• HP Compaq nc4200 12,1" XGA
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 448:1/275:1
  - Brightness distribution: 81%
  - Luminance: 26...112 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./top/bottom: 55°/ 30°, 60°
• Sony VGN-S4M/S 13,3" WXGA
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 818:1/624:1
  - Brightness distribution: 78%
  - Luminance: 35...180 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./top/bottom: 70°/ 50°, 70°
• Toshiba Libretto U100 7,3" WXGA
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 503:1/455:1
  - Brightness distribution: 87%
  - Luminance: 7...188 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./top/bottom: 70°/ 75°, 50°
• Toshiba Portege R200 12,1" XGA
  - Contrast min./enh. viewfield: 360:1/210:1
  - Brightness distribution: 83%
  - Luminance: 10...91 cd/m²
  - Viewing angles horiz./top/bottom: 50°/ 20°, 60°

As can be seen the plain business line subs, as the Thinkpad X41, HP nc4200 and Toshiba R200 don't have this luminant panels at all.

 

VKYR,
Thanks for the info.
Do you have any thoughts on what sort of screen this new X60 "Ultralight" screen will be?

Also do you have any stats for Fujitsu's cristal views screens?

 

is the panel on your T60 made by LG? if you're not sure, just do a parts lookup here:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/warranty/partsLookup.vm

 

@jl123

The X60 "Ultralight" TFT-panel could be either from TMD (Toshiba-Matu****a), Boe Hidys or Samsung, all of them do also offer brighter 12,1" XGA TFT-panels. - So far I haven't seen any specific supplier naming for the Ultralight panel.

Related to the Fujitsu panel, I would need a named Fujitsu-Siemens notebook modelltype where these cristal view panels are ought to be supplied for sure.


@murphyja

Yes, these T60 SXGA+ IPS FlexView panels are LG-Philips panels.

 

VKYR,

A good example of the cristal view is probably the 6240 13.3, I have been told it is rated at 300 nits. And I must say it really looks a *lot brighter than anything else I've seen at 13 or 12 in.

It's so hard to go back and forth in deciding between something like the fujitsu-which is so flimsy, and the new IBM-which is very well built but which looks like its screen improvement will be barely noticable in brightness! Thats why I still wait for portable ones SX 13.3 which I hear will be the closest comprimise between the two. JL

 

And by Boe-Hydis themselves. The screen is 6-bit, so it cannot be called Super-IPS.