ThinkPad W520 VS Macbook Pro 15

hi guys,
i want to buy one of these notebooks, but I do not know which one.
please help me out. thanks in advanced!
I study civil engineering and I need it for the university and at home. I would also run Windows7 on the Mac.
(Office, Wlan surfing, CAD and Games)
(sorry for my bad english)

Legend: Black=Uncommitted, GREEN = Positive, RED = Negative
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Lenovo ThinkPad W520
- Full HD 1920x1080, 15,6 Zoll ( 16:9, Matte, LED)
- Nvidia Quadro 2000M 2GB ( CAD-GPU)
- Intel Core i7-2720QM 2,2GHz
- 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 Ram ( 4 Slots, up to 32GB)
- 4x USB ( 2x USB 3.0, 1x USB 2.0 Power supply, 1x eSATA/ USB-Combo)
- WLAN-N, Bluetooth 2.1
- 500GB (7200RPM)
- 60WH Battery (ca. 6h) ( Battery exchangeable with 94WH (ca. 11h))
- SD CardReader
- 2.52kg ( With 60WH Battery)
- 3,18-3,56cm x 37,3cm x 24,5cm
- DisplayPort ++, VGA-15Pins
- DVD-DL Burner
- Firewire 400
- Gigabit LAN
- Titanium-reinforced, Magnesium-reinforced
- HD Webcam + Dual Microphone
- 3 Years warranty
- Multi-Touchpad, Trackpoint + 3 Mouse buttons

- WWAN UMTS-Modem
- Ultra Fast 64GB Mini SSD (In addition to the HDD)
- Ultrabay (Drive can be removed and replaced by dummy, extra battery or additional HDD)
- Optimus (Automatic switch off of the GPU for lower power consumption)
- ExpressCard
- Fingerprint reader

- ca. 2000€
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Apple Macbook Pro 15
- HR 1680x1050, 15,4 Zoll ( 16:10, Matte, LED)
- AMD Radeon HD 6750M 1GB
- Intel Core i7-2720QM 2,2GHz
- 4GB 1333MHz DDR3 Ram ( 2 Slots, up to 8GB)
- 2x USB ( USB 2.0)
- 750GB (5400RPM)
- 77,5WH Battery (ca. 7h MacOS X, ca. 3h Windows 7)
- SD CardReader
- 2,54kg
- 2,54cm x 36,4cm x 24,9cm
- Mini DisplayPort ++
- DVD-DL Burner
- Firewire 800
- Gigabit LAN
- Aluminium Case
- HD Webcam + Microphone
- 1 Year warranty
- Multi-Touchpad

- Thunderbolt (New 10 Gigabit Port)
- Backlight Keyboard
- Automatic switch off the GPU ( only MacOS X)

- ca. 2000€
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Depends on what you are doing with your planned laptop. And will your software run on OS X or do you have a compatible version?

 

as I said in the Apple forum please fill out the form and post in the WNSIB forum.

 

I study civil engineering and I need it for the university and at home. I would also run Windows7 on the Mac.
(Office, Wlan surfing, CAD and Games)

 

They are both excellent machines, but if you're planning to use it a lot under Windows, maybe you should get the Thinkpad. Also consider you can run windows in a virtual machine, at some performance expense.

 

1: Civ 3D and CAD apps SUCK on OSX so you will be in windows alot.... so 3 hours battery life. ( no I am blowing smoke, my wife is an architect and cabinet maker .... fairly heavy on the CAD, and had outright tossed her last gen MBP 15" AND MBP 17" max loaded with SSD's etc in favor of proper workstations .... she calls them $10,000 of junk )

2: gaming is still not going to be so good AMD changed the numbering scheme for the 6000's to integrate the APU procesors the 6700's replaced the 5600's. for gaming you want the 6800 or 6900's especially for more visual games.

I would say look harder at the thinkpads or the newer Elitebooks.

edit:

hard drive is advantage thinkpad, not as large but FASTER

battery advantage to thinkpad, its SWAPABLE without screwdrivers, tou can take extra batteries with the thinkpad

warranty and quality will be 5 times batter on the thinkpad workstation as well ( aluminum is no where near as strong as magnesium or titanium )

thunderbolt holds no advantage for now as no devices support it. secondly it needs a hub or something as it is also your external monitor port. reading the spec its also limited to 6 devices. ESATA is a better choice still for a single external drive.

 

I'm a former Mac user, but now I'm back to Windows after about 10 years!

I personally wouldn't buy a Mac, the quality has fallen hugely. And ironically, repair costs have gone up too! And OS X hasn't really got any better... Just my opinion.
Although the deciding factor was the cost, I could buy two new PC laptops with better specs for the price of one MacBook - a no brainer.

Post again in the what to buy section and see what people say. However, I am sure the W520 would be a good choice.

Good luck!

 

If the thinkpad had the apple GPU Id take that.

 

The AMD and NVIDIA GPUs are almost the same, both are as fast as a GT 540M.
But the NVIDIA had extra CAD-DisplayDrivers.

 

I tend to lean towards choosing the thinkpad as well....

 

Nvidia (especially switchable) causes nothing but heartburn for me. The reason why I gave my m11x to my mom was the issue I had with the switchable gpu in linux. My t400 on the other hand works flawlessly with linux. Aside from that Im more of an ati guy anyways after the whole nvidia failure fiasco, as well as I like cooler running and better power efficiency ATI offers over nvidia too.

 

With the Lenovo, I would still buy the additional battery 94WH for 150 €.
Also, a 1TB hard drive I would buy for 100 €. The mini-SSD for Windows7 and programs and the 1TB hard drive for data.

And thanks for your help!

 

is optimus so bad?

 

I am more of an nVidia person myself ... I think that liquid is saying is that mot only did he have a bad experience with nVidia (and nVidia DID drop the ball with the whole recent recall thing) but that he personally prefers the ATI graphics cards with what he does.

I have not heard anything with optimus that is bad per se - although I am by no means an "authority" or what not.

I have a T400 with switcheable graphics too, although I use win 7 pro solely without any Linux installations, and it does me fine.

 

So you would also say that I would be happier with the ThinkPad?

 

I would second liquidxit2's suggestion, yes.

 

nope Optimus for some of us is a nightmare. it does NOT support Linux or other OS's, and since it actually uses the LVDS drivers and does final output through the IGP, is is an unbearable nightmare in high end apps, such as adobe premier, CAD and many openGL apps. even many games will not use optimus correctly there are literally hundreds of threads here in NBR about problems with it.

I was a rather hard core Nvidia supporter as well but since the rebrandng issues and the optimus problems and terrible performance/cost ratio ..... and now crappy drivers I tend to go AMD/ATI as well now.

 

Ah ha ... good to know! Especially for him the CAD problems reported could be an issue!

Hmm ... well, out of the two he suggested I would still lead towards the thinkpad myself.

 

Damn, but why Lenovo does not use AMD FirePro instead? I thought CUDA etc are important? I'm confused!

 

Quadros are still great just skip anything that is GF/Optimus. I have no idea why Lenovo does not use the FP cards, I use an FP7820 in my elitebook and love it and wished that the W series had it as an option.

 

Thinkpad and elitebook have the same buildquality? same price ca?

 

Elitebooks are AWESOME machines ... for me I actually give them a slight edge (no pun intended) over the Thinkpads.

BY all means check out the Elitebook line! We have a 8710w and an 8440p in our office and I have been really impressed by both of them.

Dunno off the top of my head about price comparisons though....

 

Knowing european ThinkPad pricing, I doubt you can get the top W520 model (quad core + 2000M + FHD) for around 2000€. I'd say around 2500€ would sound more realistic, especially in the beginning. As sad as that is for us who live in Europe

 

In germany we have some student-shops.
Here's the proof:
http://www.addag.de/uploads/media/A..._Lehrer__Hochschulen__Forschung_und_Lehre.pdf

(the most expensive W510 costs 2082 €)

 

similar or a little more expensive dependng on where you are..... and I would say much better build. and much better CTO options available. the only downfall I find it the trackpoint capisnt so good so replace the HP one with a package of lenovo caps

 

the most expensive HP EliteBook 8540w Mobile Workstation costs 2.183,54€!
wow it has some nice hardware like the current W510, but a ulgy case.

 

it can go higher as it is one of 2 laptops that can posess a 10 bit IPS panel and that upgrade is an extra $500 USD.

and hey think of it this way ... fugly and functional beats pretty, polished and pointless.

 

you saved the day!

 

I would second this and stress that the Elitebooks really are excellent machines. I preferred the "look" of the 8x1x series myself, but the 8x4x series I have seen, while maybe not as attractive, have been very reliable thus far.

Do you know anyone (or any place) that owns one of the 8x4x machines so that you could actually see one in person before making a final decision?

 

VERY few places even have heard of them I bought my 8740W sight unseen and dropped over $3000 CDN on it then tossed in another 2K in upgrades immediatly.... the 8x4xW series seems to be absolutly untouchable in quality and equipment.

if you want great images and info on the bigger one hit the reiew section and look for Aikimox's review of the 8740W.

oh heck here it is
http://forum.notebookreview.com/notebook-news-reviews/503121-hp-8740w-review-full-metal-jacket.html

 

Unfortunately, so far I could only use the MacBook Pro in real life.
Our electrical retailers have only Macs, Vaios and Consumer: Asus / Acer / Hp / Dell. i have to wait for a exact review.

 

Macbook run hot, if you are using a very demanding application for a long time. I am note sure if portablity is important to you. If it is, I consider that you take a look at the thickness and weight of each machine. While both machines are 15" they are two different animal.

I am not sure how different the graphic card is, but the Thinkpad will have proper driver for CAD (The Apple is likely a better gaming device of the two).

Personally I like laptop that can be easily service by yourself, Thinkpad are one of easilest laptop to service yourself.

 

The dual core i7 was running pretty hot in a MBP, i would love to see how Apple changed the heat management and heat sink design of the new MBP to accommodate the new CPU.

 

Ah the same thread:
You study civil engineering, so softwarewise you should be able to decide if a Mac would be useful in your situation, otherwise choose the Thinkpad. The workstation-class GPU in the Thinkpad is a big plus for CAD.
It's debatable if the aluminum case is a more positive feature, compared to the Thinkpad. The Thinkpad seems more durable than the MBP case.

 

yes you are right pal. so it was surprising how apple install a quad-core processor and a stronger video card.

 

Lucky you! I wish I had student discount on ThinkPads

 

There is no doubt that the alUmminium shell on Mac dents and scratches, and than repair cost are high. APPLE DOES NOT OFFER A ACCIDENTAL DAMAGE WARRANTE LIKE LENOVO. MOST OF YOUR TIME WILL BE SENT AT THE MAC STORE REPAIRING IT.

I apologize for the spelling

 

what the hell? on an german site they say that apple throttle the i7 in the 13"mpb for reduce temperatur and no turboboost 2.0! under overload the cpu reaches 100°C!

News - Apple Macbook Pro 13,3'' (Early 2011) - 13-Zoll Macbook Pro ohne Intel Turbo Boost auf notebookjournal.de

 

It is true with the metallic shell, it is easily scratch/dented. You have to buy the shell casing for it. I tend to find this true for all Apple products.

The repair costs are high, but that is only if it is out of warranty or you spilled something on it. Apple logic boards (motherboards) are usually 1000+ because the CPU/GPU is soldered onto to the motherboard. Their screens range from 300-700. Basically baby your MBP because the repair costs cost as much as a new one.

Apple only offers AppleCare as their extended warranty which is an extension of the normal warranty + 3 years of software support which Apple tech support is very very good. Apple with not offering accidental damage basically want you to buy a new notebook every 2-3 years. That is the reason why Apple is absent from the business market, that and every 6 months there is a refresh.

 

That's REALLY hot temp wise.

Yep ... the more I read the more it seems that between the two choices you asked about the Lenovo seems the better, if not ideal, choice.

What did you think of the Elitebooks you looked at? Or have you had a chance yet?

 

I will wait about a month and then I decide. Perhaps HP has previously presented the W series in this month.

 

Yea, that's the beef I've always had with the MacBook Pro line. Their thermals suck. Looks like that hasn't changed much. It will be interesting to see all of the reviews over the next few weeks. It's pretty hard to ignore but the Apple fan boys tend to downplay it.

 

between those choices, I would choose the w520.

i have a previous gen w510, and it is just an overall great workstation. not to mention, you can upgrade the ram up to 32GB. thinkpads are built very tough. my w510 is very sturdy, no keyboard flex etc. with the workstation class of video cards, the thinkpad will be better in cad than a mbp.

my wife has the c2d unibody 15" mbp, and while it is fast, to me, it just isn't a serious CAD machine. it has a regular consumer video card, and is more suited to normal users for general office/gaming.

 

One thing I would caution about. Lenovo has apparently certified the W520 with some 8GB SoDIMMs. Very cool!

However, that doesn't mean some of the other machines on the market won't be able to use 8GB SoDIMMs.

For instance, the T61p is listed as a max of 4GB of RAM. And we know it runs perfectly fine with 8.

And my point is that it's quite possible the W510 will do 32GB. I'd try it but I can't afford the darn sticks.

 

Well i guess they can burn themselves and brandish the Apple logo on their lap forever...

 

Let me put it this way, I won't let my MBP sit on my custom made desk. It sits on a Targus coolpad to keep it well away from the oak. The last thing I need is an Apple logo burned into the wood. ThinkPad would be ok.

 

Unless you really need OSX, there are no practical reasons to go for a MBP.

 

Lot of people like MBP because they have a simplistic design for their laptop and their OS. Lot of design and architecture students seem to love them, because this is sort of design philosophy that many university design and architecture departments are teaching.

Personally, i find the MBP to be a good laptop against the likes of consumer laptops. But i have problems with:

1. Price
2. Integrated battery design
3. The hinge design
4. The heatsink sink/vent design
5. screen casing's robustness (the thin walled aluminium casing is pretty weak).
6. The amount of damage suffered when you drop these laptops on the corner. Usually when the corner is bent, you have a problem closing the screen.
7. Finally the price of replacement for the LCD and chassis when you do drop the laptop.

 

As an architecture student who has seen his fair share of MBPs, I can say that they are popular for their industrial design / quality. They cost an arm and a leg, but for someone who isn't hardware savy, it's a safe bet to purchase to get them through their education with having to worry about comparing Dells to Thinkpads, to HPs. However, nearly everyone who is running a MAC in architecture has bootcamp to run their software. And I have got to say one of the smallest-biggest annoyances has to be the lack of a delete key when modeling or drafting (though that can be remedied by remapping keys).

 

I think reliability of MBP lies more with their os rather than the hardware.