ThinkPad W520 VS Macbook Pro 15

No arguments there, but i honestly don't think that's the biggest reason people buy them. I would put it up there, but behind the hardware. People are seduced (as they should be) by the gorgeous body and screens, if they weren't so pretty I doubt they would sell nearly as many.

 

The funny thing is that while their build quality and screens are above average, they're far from great. The thing is Apple has great marketing so they're more well known than say the Elitebook 8540w and 8740w, which are among the top in both of those categories.

 

Yeah few people know much about Elitebooks.

I guess you can say they are...

*puts on sunglasses*

for the Elites

 

Apple products are more well known in the consumer market than specific hp, Dell or lenovo business notebooks. Regarding whether people in corporate market knows about elitebook, depends on whether they ever come into contact with such laptops in their personal or work life.

 

Actually it's interesting that the new Elitebooks seem MBP-ish, metal body and a chiclet keyboard.


Vs


Now getting back on topic, the new W520 is still classic Thinkpad style. I think I like the look of the metal body laptops (MBP and Elitebooks) but Thinkpads have a better feel to it (like the palmrest is soft and you won't get cut like the hard edges of the MBP). And maybe Dell's new Latitudes are supposed to be a mix of Thinkpad-type plastics for the palmrest and metal like the Elitebooks.


vs

 

Still haven't figured out how to center the trackpad though. Even though they removed the numeric keys on the right side. Can we get an engineer? Please.

 

I posted the Elitebook 8460p so they never had numeric keys in the first place on those models. Come to think of it, it's pretty much standard that the optical is on the right side, so my guess is they don't have them centered usually because the optical drive takes up a lot of room on the right side.

 

No, it's to center the touchpad with the spacebar and the home row keys, so it's exactly in the middle of your two hands when you type. My Averatec has the ODD on the left side, but the touchpad is still shifted to the left.

If you pull out a ruler and measure your Thinkpad, you'll notice that the Thinkpad touchpads are not centered with the laptop body either - they're offset to the left, as in most laptops. This is because there is only a Caps Lock key to the left, whereas there are the semicolon, quotation mark, and Enter keys to the right of the home row. In addition, the HP Elitebooks have another row to the right of that, so their trackpads are even more offset to the left than that of the Thinkpads.

In fact, one of the only laptops where the trackpad is exactly dead center is the MacBook, for aesthetic reasons only. If you notice, their home row keys are not aligned with the touchpad, which introduces two issues - first of all, it's not as natural to access the trackpad, second, there is more of a chance that your right palm will rub the touchpad when you are typing.

There is reason to the madness

 

They can't place it dead center because that would mean moving the keyboard with it (speaker will be uneven then)(think about trackpoint). They could make key longer on one side, but one major reason why people love the Thinkpad is because of their keyboard so unless it is for function purposes Lenovo wouldn't change their keyboard.

 

I didn't like the Elitebook keyboard arrangement. I could get used to it if forced, but so far we've always had ThinkPads in the mix of the machines we could order.

 

Dell have always used (AFAIK) plastic/polymer palmrest and external metallic bottom casing... while, Elitebooks have shifted its design through mimicking certain positive traits of its competitors' laptops.

 

What graphics cards do you guys anticipate HP will use in the 8560w?

 

Is that cheaper than ok1.de - Shop für Lehre und Forschung ?

 

Elitebook 8560w should have Quadro 1000M, 2000M, and the latest AMD Firepro (I heard it'll be called the M5950)

 

same price

 

Yep it's the M5950 and it will replace the M5800, specs are pretty unknown right now except that it will most likely be 128-bit GDDR5 like the previous model (M5800 has 400 shaders). I expect the Dell Precision M4600 to offer the ATI card once it comes out, though I'm not sure if Lenovo will use the card.

 

I had a Macbook and a Sony, and I just bought a x201 last week. The Thinkpad is far superior to any of the other two. It's built better and easier to service and Windows 7 is a lot better than osx. Better warantee and better software..
If you buy the mac than you are falling for the Apple marketing campaign which is to be "cool", you got to have one.

I would never go back to Mac

 

Yes. They had alot of issues for a long time in windows and with the fact that drivers are all done by people like you and me for GPUs in linux its even worse. My m11x didnt have optimus (thank God!), but it didnt have an option to disable the 335m gt and run solely on the IGP. So even with nvidia support its not working well.

 

So there is issues in Linux but not in Windows now?

 

Optimus has never been supported in linux or any other OS other than windows. all other OS work has been done by the average joe with no help from Nvidia. and after having an 11xr2 and a couple other Optimus based laptops I wont touch it again with a 10 foot pole. its a NIGHTMARE with CAD and other openGL optimized software and even pretty flakey on games and average use. there are thousands of threads here and elsewhere with directly Optimus based issues.

 

Not issues in Linux, it doesn't work. No drivers. Optimus doesn't work well in Windows either. There are many documented issues in NBR forums.

 

This.

Definitely if Optimus is so plagued with problems (even in Windows) then if it were me I would go away from it (esp for high intensive work like CAD, etc.) and stick with a machine that had graphics cards like these.

****

BTW Tsunade - nice new avatar. Three cheers for Haruhi.

 

Is it possible to switch manually from integrated GPU to nVidia Quadro with Optimus? This could fix most of the problems?!

 

no Nvidia implemented it where the discreet GPU ( Quadro or G-force ) outputs itself to the Intel IGP display buffers and makes the IGP do the final display. in all but 2 thinkpads we have found there is no MUX for the discreet card to display directly to the LVDS ( screen ). and with the display moved from IGP to Discreet and Back makes it both inefficient and a monumental pain in the lower anatomy.

in quite a few cases you CAN disable the discreet card and run on the IGP entirely but wheres the point in that.

 

Hahahaha thanks, I knew people would love it.

I thought the T400/T500 can disable switching graphics in BIOS?

 

Nvidia Quadros are paired with Optimus, oftentimes. If it's that bad then wait for AMD Firepro laptops to come out, and I don't think Lenovo has any.

 

one of them can I just cant remember which has the second MUX to enable the discreet card ONLY at the bios level. ( I would have to go hunting through some lenovo threads ) lots can just disable the discreet card and use IGP only

 

The T500 definitely can do that. There are three options in BIOS: integrated, switchable and discreet. Have tried them all when tested battery life.

 

The T400/T500 only have manual GPU-switching. On T400/T500 machines running XP, GPU-switching has to be done in BIOS, to either integrated or discrete graphics. In Vista and 7 systems, any of the three modes will work, and with the latest switchable graphics drivers and support from both AMD and Lenovo, I would suggest that unless you're experiencing problems, to stick with the "Switchable" setting.

 

Optimus technology is not the same as switchable graphic The final output always gos through the Intel gpu. The Nvidia gpu kicks in whenever demand arises. It will simply stop working if the intel gpu is disabled.

 

Is there a performance hit for Optimus, because the final output goes through the Intel card?

Or put in another way, would the same GPU without Optimus be faster than with Optimus?

 

Nvidia Optimus Review - Notebookcheck.net Reviews

The only direct performance hit is higher latency. The review says lower, but that's most likely translation error (original article in German).

 

Lenovo integrated into the whole ThinkPads both! Optimus and switchable graphics!

german forum:
Notebook Forum - Test Lenovo ThinkPad T510 Notebook (Optimus) - NotebookCHECK.com

 

While the idea of switching graphics is great! I love it in my t400 and it made for an awesome setup for when I was a gamer. 9-10 hours on battery when I want of the ability to casually game. But that is manual switching. Having software detect and choose for you is only good on paper IMHO. Alot of times the software that detects wont initiate the discrete gpu when the game executable is run and it crashes the game. If youre working with cad or gaming switchable is good if its manual, discrete is good, but auto switching will yield weird random slow downs in certain situations that will lead you to think there is another issue. Honestly if graphics (gaming or production) is your task for the computer then I would steer clear of optimus.

Some still have issues

The sad thing is nobody writes GPU drivers for linux. Its the one type of hardware thats always behind due to having to be written by end users.

Yeah, if you want to hear about optimus issues check out the m11x r2 complaints.

 

I know this thread is a bit old, but I think I can help clear up some of the issues with the w520's graphics situation in linux.

From what I understand, there are 2 different kinds of Optimus laptops. Most of the new ones are Optimus only and all graphics calls go through the integrated card, with some then getting passed on to the discrete card. These are the kind of laptops that Linux has no support for, and can only use the integrated card.

The second kind of Optimus, which includes the w520, has a hardware multiplexer that can allow you to choose how graphics calls are set. With the w520, in the BIOS you can select either Integrated, Optimus, or Discrete. With Integrated, the discrete card is disabled (should work in Linux). with Optimus, calls go through the integrated card, with some being sent to the discrete card automatically (won't work in Linux). With discrete, all calls are sent to the discrete card and the Integrated one is disabled (should work in Linux).

So, while you may not get the battery saving benefits of Optimus in Linux with the w520, you should stlil be able to use the discrete NVidia card and you should also be able to switch back and forth between the integrated and discrete cards with a reboot and making the necessarry changes in the BIOS.

Hope this clears some things up.

 

I apologize for grave digging, but I'm currently torn between

Lenovo ThinkPad W520 4276-37U 15.6" Notebook 427637U B&H for full price

and

MacBook Pro - Shop Apple Laptop & Notebook Computers - Apple Store (U.S.)
15-inch: 2.2 GHz
2.2GHz quad-core
Intel Core i7
4GB 1333MHz
500GB 5400-rpm1
Intel HD Graphics 3000
AMD Radeon HD 6750M with 512MB GDDR5
Built-in battery (7 hours)2

The base model 15" MBP for $850(brand new). I was set on the W520 and would never think of buying a MBP(because of their exorbitant price), but at $850...

What do you guys think?

 

I'm also a former Mac user and recently switched to Win 7 after 10 years, and I would agree that Mac quality has fallen quite a bit (or maybe I didn't notice the quality and build as much until recently). This is also my opinion, but for the price, Macs are very overrated. Windows has also caught up and surpassed in some respects Mac OS X.

EDIT: My previous MacBook Pros have a long history of overheating and denting from ordinary use. Mac fanboys try to downplay the overheating and denting by saying that the owner was somehow mistreating the laptop. Do some research on various Mac forums. I used to frequent MacRumors, and I guarantee you will find quite a few threads about heating and denting problems. My x220 isn't perfect, but it has been my favorite laptop that I've owned, and it requires much less maintenance than my Macs did.

 

The link sends me to the Apple store, and the base price is $1,799. Where are you finding a new MBP for $850? Admittedly, that would be a great price for the hardware, and I too would be tempted despite my rant above. Just be sure to get a cooling pad for your precious.

 

Relative in the tech industry; I'm going off to college.

Yeah, I just realized that I can add a SATA 3 SSD to the MacBook Pro and still save ~$300, so it's sort of a no-brainer... SSD... want... now...

Thanks! I was sooo set on the W520, though... Oh well...

 

I think anytime you can buy that MacBook Pro configuration with a discount of $950, you should. But I have my doubts ANYONE is offering a $950 discount on a 15" MBP unless you are a student and this is a special deal through your college. If that's the case, someone if funding part of that discount and it isn't open to the public.

 

If i can get a 15 inch MBP for 850 dollars with that spec i would jump at it.

 

Agreed... Heck you can't even get a refurb that cheap...