ThinkPad X1, X230, X230t, T430, T430s, T530, W530, L430, L530 Official

Can anyone who got the W530 or T530 with quad core and dGPU confirm by now if it still throttles on battery or not?

 

a guy on the lenovo forums with the w530 benchmarked at around 15% throttling on battery

 

One of my friends who got the W530 told me that with AC, he got a Geekbench score of more than 11000 while he got around only 3500 on battery (processor throttled to 1.2 Ghz. I was so disappointed to hear that. I fee like nothing has changed then regarding this issue.

My T530 with 3720QM and dGPU shipped today (just got it for the FHD) and I am starting to become concerned that it may also throttle. I know that many people in this forum are apologists for lenovo regarding this issue but for me, it is a deal breaker.

 

i meant 15% off.. i think the guy benched at 4500 PC Mark on power, and 3800 on battery or something like that

remember there are power settings to change, the power manager scales down the CPU performance and thats an easy fix. otherwise there is a program called ThrottleStop

 

Is there any major difference between T430 and X230 in terms of battery life with the same amount of cells?

Also, does the 9-cell portrude from the back/bottom in either of these?

 

Good question! I actually wanted to know the answer for it too

 

Well, I know this answer has been posted many times before especially with the previous ThinkPad generation. However, to be honest with you, it is a shame that Lenovo acts as the 'gatekeeper' and throttle the system on battery in such a way to do the so-called 'battery-live saving' and they should just leave this as an option for the consumers to opt to that if they want. I should not be obliged to use third-part software to this and mess up with the processor (especially if I am not technically expert). I have tried many other brands and never saw this issue happening and Lenovo should not do this thing. I know that Thinkpad 'by design' and 'apologists' guys will definitely object to that but I guess I am from the other camp who love ThinkPads but wanna be comfortable with them.

 

And which models would those be?

 

Just for example, the new HP DV6 and the new XPS 15 with quad core Ivy Bridge and dGPU.

 

XPS 15:
i7-3612QM: 35W TDP, +10W for Turbo/Package = 45W
GT 630M: 35W
Miscellaneous: 10W
Total: 90W

HP DV6
i7-3720QM: 45W TDP, +10W for Turbo/Package = 55W
GT 650M: 45W
Miscellaneous: 10W
Total: 110W
Problem: GPU is throttled: http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-...e-unthrottled-650m-dv6-7000-dv7-7000-yet.html [EDIT: Disputed.]

W520:
i7-2720QM: 45W TDP, +10W for Turbo/Package = 55W
Quadro 2000M: 55W
Miscellaneous: 10W
Total: 120W

So unless you want to carry around a 12-cell or 15-cell to sustain that kind of wattage, no.

EDIT: Math fix.

 

I know what you mean by these numbers but I am not technically expert and to be honest with you, I no longer care with the numbers at all. I just pay attention to the 'practical' performance on the same tasks in the same conditions and also testing the CPU speed using tools such as HWINFO64. From this, I can tel you that they do not or very lightly throttle that you cannot 'practically' or 'significantly' observe it like in W520. Also, do not bring one comment from one customer about the HP and tel me "see there are complaints".

 

Physics and numbers don't require caring about to apply.

If you want to sustain full performance without experiencing this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5f0VCoFuFM, then you'll have to carry a 12-cell battery like this: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/thitiv/4214704240/

Alternatively, the battery can be made of 12 really small cells and be the same size, but then everyone would complain about how it only got two hours of battery life. Which one is worse to Lenovo and to the end-user? Being unable to advertise 9 hour battery life or being able to get 15% faster numbers (yes benchmarks are numbers too)?

Can you verify that the DV6 doesn't downclock the GPU on battery? If so, then you make a fair point, if not, this is the only presented evidence.

Keeping my CPU throttled to 50% on battery intentionally, and I don't find any noticeable difference practically with things I'd work with on battery power anyway.

EDIT: Math fix on prior post.

 

Any machine would throttle but how much throttling and how significant it is matters. DV6 throttling is very little that you do not feel it. Anyway, I know that this issue will continue to be a life-long debate, so I guess I am gonna stop talking about this issue and just live with it and 'shut up' or find a different machine

 

If by feel, you mean benchmarks, then choose a benchmark that weighs GPU performance more heavily than CPU performance and you'll get better numbers for a W520. Otherwise, just don't use the discrete GPU and you'll get full CPU performance.

The issue will going away either by improvements in device consumption or improvements in battery tech, but not as it stands (given certain constraints like device size, weight, featureset, etc.).

 

practical performance probably won't notice the difference from a 15% throttled cpu

 

This could actually solve the problem but unfortunately, you cannot connect the machine to an external display if you disable the dGPU!

 

How often do you need to connect to an external display where there are no available power outlets? And in those situations, how often do you need max CPU & GPU? It seems to me that the most likely scenarios for connecting to external displays on battery power are for presentations, and I don't know what kind of presentations would require so much power that the throttling became noticeable.

 

Are you kidding me? What are you talking about? The machine would not connect to any external monitor whether it is docked or not if you choose to work with the Intel graphics only in BIOS. The suggestion was that I only use the Intel to avoid the throttling, so how can I connect to my monitor this way?

 

You misunderstood me. By calculations done earlier, the MAXIMUM power consumption of the W530 is roughly 110 watts, including everything. The battery provides a maximum of approximately 94 watts (with the 9-cell) at a time, if I am understanding the numbers correctly. So my assumption is that throttling only comes into play when the computer is using over 94 watts at a time.

Since neither the processor nor the Nvidia card consume anywhere near that much power all the time, I do not see a situation in which you would be drawing enough power on battery to cause throttling while using the Nvidia card to connect to an external display. In other words, it seems like a non-issue except in cases of maximum performance potential (like in benchmarks), and it's unlikely that you will be using or needing maximum performance when connected to an external monitor when on battery power.

Short version: even when using Nvidia graphics, throttling doesn't matter.

 

The bolded part is entirely incorrect: the battery is rated at 94 Wh, which is a measurement of its total energy capacity rather than the maximum power draw at any one time. For example, if the computer used a constant 10W of power, it would take 9.4 hours to drain a 94 Wh battery.

 

Okay, then could you please explain why people are saying that a 12-cell battery would solve throttling issues? I don't get it. I understand that it's the measurement of total energy capacity and thought the two were related. How can you estimate maximum power draw at one time?

 

Is this really true? I can connect my lowly E420 to an external monitor on battery only and my E420 has no dGPU.

 

It's true on the W530, since Lenovo set it up that way. Obviously, any video outputs on your computer would be run by integrated graphics since they're all you have!

 

That is correct. Once you have the dGPU, the system can only use it to connect to external displays. Otherwise, if Intel HD 4000 is all what you have, then the system will use it.

 

Just received my T530. So disappointed as I got 2 red pixels in the display. Thanks Lenovo

I have the i7-3270QM and dGPU and it seems like the machine significantly throttles as I can see from the Geekbench scores (I started to use some numbers):

on AC: 10632
on Battery with Maximum Performance in all setting in Power Manager and BIOS: 3922

Practically, it takes 2 - 3 seconds for the machine to move from one tab to another in Firefox and I get frequent delays when I type something.

 

Thank you for posting this. This ^^ is correct and a 94WHr rating has NOTHING to do with how much max current the battery can supply. It is a measurement of the capacity only. It litterally means 94W for 1 Hour, or 9.4W for 10 hours, or 940W for 0.1 Hr, and so on. At the extremes it wont be dead on accurate, but it is an industry standard way to measure power quantity. For example your power bill is meterd in Kilowatt-Hours, which is units of 1000WHr.

They are wrong. All you need to eliminate the throttling is ThrottleStop. You will just run the battery flat more quickly.

 

From your understanding, will decreasing the load on the battery solve the problem then (i.e. getting dual core processor with only Intel HD 4000)?

 

After getting T530 with 2 dead pixels, I am thinking of getting X230 and i have a couple of questions:

1. Can I use X230 with this docking station (I already have it ) ThinkPad Mini Dock Plus Series 3 with USB 3.0 – 170W (433835U - U.S.) or do I have to get the ultrabase and what is the difference?

2. Does the 9-cell battery on the X230 increase the size of the machine significantly?

 

If the notebook throttles the CPU on battery regardless of power draw, but does not throttle when using ThrottleStop, then it would seem to me that the throttling is a BIOS issue and therefore would happen independent of processor choice.

 

The way I see it (with my limited technical knowledge) is that it is more related to the presence/activity of dGPU which is a must-have option with any quad core processor and that why I am thinking of sacrificing the quad core and getting a dual core with Intel HD 4000. Not sure if this should fix the problem?

 

It really depends on how they implemented the throttling. I would say dual core + igp instead of the quad would definitely make throttling less likely, but it still may happen, I dont know. In either case ThrottleStop should be able to solve your issues. I also doubt that it would matter what battery was in the machine (6cell vs 9cell) however they may in fact have a different throttling 'profile' for the different battery capacities, but even then they should all still be over-ridden with ThrottleStop.

 

I do not think battery capacity matters either since it provides the same amount of power at a time just for longer time. Honestly, I do not think it is rational or convincing to me to pay a premium in a brand new machine then try to fix it to work for me. Many would disagree but that is me.

Do you, by any chance, know of any other business brands/models that would not present the same issue in this significant way?

 

Are you looking at the W530? then there is the HP Elitebook, Dell Prescision (new model coming out in 2-3 weeks), and even possibly some Clevo machines you may be interested in (W150ER, P150EM)

 

I have the docking station with the 170W adapter and just wanna make sure that it would not hurt an X230 since it is only using a 65W adapter.

 

That will be just fine, and will not damage the X230.

 

I know this may not be a valid question/comparison but can someone tell me if the X230 IPS panel better then the FHD panel in regards of colors, quality, and crispiness of the text and images regardless of the work real estate?

 

You should be able to Google or Bing that. There are hundreds of reviews on both with detailed measurements on the color, white balance, blacks, contrast, etc.

 

I am not much expert with technical parameters of display panels and was just hoping to get an overall opinion (just the big picture!) especially that I do not do photo/video editing and just care about how nice the display looks to my eyes.

 

The X220/230 IPS screen is nice. The T/W510/520/530 FHD screen is nicer, larger, and has higher pixel-density.

I really like that AUO FHD screen, perhaps the best 15.6" TN screen today. (I bought a Dell XPS 15 L502X in order to enjoy its glossy twin. The glossiness is very subtle, not disturbingly reflective at all, and does make colors pop.)

 

Really?! I did not expect the IPS panel to be inferior to the TN FHD panel from the color/sharpness aspects but it may be just because I have not seen the IPS panel and do not well understand the technical differences between them.

Are you talking about the XPS 15 that launched a short time ago? Did you also have a chance to see the 1600*900 panel in the Dell Latitude E6430?

 

IPS does not automatically mean "superior." There are other factors that make a screen really good. For example, sharpness, as you mentioned, comes from pixel density (or resolution).

No. I meant the XPS 15 L502X of 2011. The XPS 15 L521X of 2012 uses a different screen (that may be less interesting).

 

I know some people like to match the memory sticks in their machine but I, personally, do not believe that there is something today in the memory called "incompatible" if they have the same speed and from a reputable manufacturer. Why did not you actually get Samsung? It is a great one and not expensive?

 

One more question, does the X230 IPS panel has the same orange/red issue that the HP Envy 15 and Sony S 15 have? If yes, is that an issue with any IPS panel in the world?

 

incompatible meaning the system did not run at 1600mhz, but rather 1333 mhz.

stock stick alone: 1600mhz
aftermarket alone: 1600mhz
mixed: 1333 mhz

 

Ok, got what you are saying now! For me, I got the Samsung 1600 and it did not decrease the speed of the stock RAM and work just fine. Actually, I read that some people prefer the 1333 MHz and not sure if this is true and why?

 

Every display panel has its own quirks in terms of design and production. That orange/red issue is not universal, but is present in the panel used in the recent HP Envy 15. Color reproduction quality can vary widely across various IPS or TN panels by the same manufacturer or by different manufacturers. (For example, the AUO FHD panel in the T520 is excellent whereas the AUO FD+ panel in the T420 is barely acceptable.)

 

My x230 had a yellowish tint to it. Skin color looked really "odd" and unnatural. Reds, orange and other colors were fine with my display. A .icc profile and/or adjusting color within Intel's control panel can easily solve a slight color issue like this.

 

Thanks for advice. I also wanted to know if I would get any additional benefit paying for the dual i7 CPU vs the basic i5-3210M if I am working extensively on Office, web browsing, and some database software. No gaming, no photo/video editing. Is there also any benefit from even upgrading from basic i5 to the fastest i5? I will upgrade RAM to 8GB and have an SSD.

 

With your usage profile, I would stay with the low i5 Ivy Bridge with HD 4000. The 8GB RAM and SSD will contribute significantly to the responsiveness of the system.

(Are you still shopping?)

 

Unfortunately, the answer is Yes! I did not like the display of the T430 and I got T530 but it had 2 dead pixels and returned it. I thought it may be a good opportunity to try the X230 or I am also looking at the new Latitude E6430 but it is still very expensive and cannot find any discounts or coupons for it.