It breaks my heart - except for the screen, the X230 is basically perfect.
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moogleassassin Notebook Consultant
I must agree... if it *does* support 2x 8GB chips for 16GB RAM and *does* come with a quad core CPU then... if they put a 1600x900 screen in there I would be throwing big wads of cash at them.
Sadly while I think the CPU and the RAM will be ok - I think they are going to scrimp on the screen. Its stupid, I don't think it is unfair to say that if they sorted the screen out they would have 50% additional sales. Crazy.
Due to the screen I'm torn between the X230T and the new Ivy Bridge Sony Z23. The Sony is 13" with 1920x1080p, has quad core, supports 16GB and although it comes with a POS external GPU, it seems that the Z community have some sort of a deal with ViDock to make a eGPU that supports the light peak port on it...
So *if* that is true, it is basically Lenovo 1366x"f'all" Touchscreen VS Sony 1920x1080. Sadly that Sony screen is arguably the best screen on the market today. I've got the Z11 from 2010 and it is easily the best laptop I have ever owned... unless Lenovo sort the screen I could see myself buying another Sony.
Not sure...
Another critical thing for the Lenovo is the throttling which they seem to make standard on their models recently. I think it is very important that any reviews look for this in detail as I'm a tech user and I've already sent back a W520 for that exact reason.
Don't fancy wasting my time again on ordering an X230T only to do some basic testing, watch it throttle and then send it back again.
EDIT - Apparently they have fixed the W520 throttling when plugged in now, but it still throttles on battery power because the battery doesn't have enough power to support the CPU and discrete graphics on load.... oh well, that's much better. Note sarcasm. -
can't you just turn off throttling?
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moogleassassin Notebook Consultant
hopefully yes. But if they do something dumb again like supply a battery or PSU that doesn't have enough to support the CPU/GPU on load then no, its just a limitation.
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moogleassassin, if you are happy with Sony, why lose your time with Lenovo?
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Not for long, of course, and customers generally value battery life and mobility a lot more than performance (hence the whole netbook/tablets popularity). People who don't like this throttling, can easily switch it off.
Can't see why it would be different in the new series, as they are even more power efficient. Same about 16GB. It's unlikely Lenovo would deliberately cripple their machines, especially as even the current generation does support 8GB sticks. They however may choose not to bother verifying compatibility of their dual core setups with 8GB, as they do for quad cores, yet it would work all the same. -
moogleassassin Notebook Consultant
I was on the train to London and I was hot and frustrated. I think what I was trying to say is that although the Sony Z11 is the best PC I have ever owned, it isn't without its flaws either (heat/noise/no_drivers_updates/etc) and I think that the X230T *could* be a better fit for me at this time due to tablet/touch, I just really hope they don't put out an underpowered spec that removes it as a possible option for me.
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My W520 with Q2000 was manufactured in spring 2011, and does exhibit the same throttling on battery by default, which is fine most of the time. ThrottleStop fixes this issue when I need full power on battery, and it performs exactly the same as with AC power.
Are there W520 machines where ThrottleStop does not work? -
At least Asus gets it. They're even offering a 1920x1080 IPS screen on their 11" UX21A !
As rumored, the lineup includes Core i5 and i7 Ivy Bridge processors, with 1920 x 1080 IPS displays offered even on the 11-incher. (If you don't need that kind of pixel density, 1366 x 768 displays will be available as well.) -
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Thors.Hammer Notebook Enthusiast
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You may point to Apple and the retina screen craze. However, tablets are a bit different, and frankly, Apple can market a can of dung and people would wait in line for it lately.
Separately, I separated with my last Mac, which makes me Mac free for the first time in I don't know how long. My x220 has really hastened my exodus from OS X. Unfortunately, I'm still a lurker on Mac threads...work is kind of boring of late.
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Apparently it has both a mini VGA and micro HDMI port. You can either use an inexpensive VGA to DP cable or a micro HDMI to DP adapter.
As ever, this kind of skinniness comes at a cost: the UX21A only makes room for a handful of ports, including two USB 3.0 sockets, a headphone jack, mini-VGA and micro-HDMI. -
New Zenbooks: ASUS bringing Zenbook Prime UX21A, UX31A, UX32A and UX32VD to the US, prices start at $799 -- Engadget
Can't Lenovo do the same with the X and T series? -
Thors.Hammer Notebook Enthusiast
Let me know when you've actually tested a mini VGA -> DP connector. That isn't possible either. And you certainly aren't going to get to 2560x1440 or higher across the connection.
Your link points to DisplayPort -> VGA cables. Mini VGA -> DP isn't the same thing as DP to VGA. -
Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
throttling under battery is not just common, its implemented by intel as well. Throttling when your plugged in, is another matter, and the only model that they didnt fix it, was the i7 x220 -
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HDMI Male to DP Male 6ft cable
But we're really off topic now and mostly my fault. Just wanted to underscore that Asus had implemented HD 1920 x 1080 screens even in their 11" ultraportables in contrast to Lenovo's flagship X230 ultraportable stagnating with a 4 year old 1366 resolution. -
Thors.Hammer Notebook Enthusiast
As for the other adapter converting from one HDMI form factor to another, those are everywhere and cheap. But mini or micro HDMI isn't the same thing as mini DP.
And to your point about the screen on the notebook itself, yea, that's freaking impressive. If the Samsung 15" comes with the PLS screen, it's going to be a great buying season with all the choices from Samsung and ASUS.
I guess I need to start looking into the warranty and support channel for ASUS. The hardware looks solid. -
The UX32VD looks very nice... Discrete graphics, all under three pounds... IPS screen... $1,500 seems fair.
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Thors.Hammer Notebook Enthusiast
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I am considering a UX32VD over a T430s.
EDIT: Looks like the UX32VD is just $1,300, according to Anandtech:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5843/asus-zenbook-prime-ux21a-review -
a thinkpad 430 costs about $850, and a decent IPS 24" monitor about $250. Combined together, a rock solid notebook with the excellent monitor that can be reused. Easy choice for me.
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Next Hands-On of the X230: Lenovo ThinkPad X230 Hands-On: Does the New Keyboard Cut It?
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Next Hands-On X230
: Quick look at the Lenovo ThinkPad X230 (hands-on) | ZDNet
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Also the tech spec of the t430 on lenovo.com does not mention any quad cores... I thought the 35w quad cores would be available in the t430 and possibly x230 as well? -
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Reassuring to say the least! -
you guys know a preview/hands-on about the new W530 with the new keyboard pictures ?
Tkz,
BR -
User Retired 2 Notebook Nobel Laureate NBR Reviewer
With the addition of pci-e 3.0 lanes on the northbridge side of the Series-7 chipset, Lenovo could double the expresscard slot's bandwidth from x1 2.0 to x1 3.0 by routing the northbridge port rather than southbridge ports to it. Latest Keplar cards are pci-e 3.0 compliant as is the PE4L 2.1b hardware.
Is there any way to start a dialog with the Lenovo hardware development team to get such a suggestion + more here through? Such a move would place Lenovo at pole position for eGPU implementations. I'm getting the impression from the Ivy Bridge refresh that someone is dripfeeding NBR user desirable features to the Lenovo product development team. -
"Fortunately, the keyboard still has a great tactile feel with the kind of industry-leading force-feedback weve come to expect from Lenovo." -
Jayayess1190 Waiting on Intel Cannonlake
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Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
For example its stupid to launch a dock with a measly USB3 powering the whole thing, with 2 displays out and several usb3 in there, its going to be bandwidth starved, instead just go for thunderbolt.. -
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Thors.Hammer Notebook Enthusiast
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Palmrest is for rest when not typing. Pretty much any ergonomic guide, discussing carpal tunnel and its prevention, describes that too. E.g. HealthyComputing - Keyboard Setup and Usage or http://www.doereport.com/generateexhibit.php?ID=10390 or even IBM's own http://www.pc.ibm.com/ww/healthycomputing/we-key.html :
* Your wrists should be extended straight, not bent up or down uncomfortably.
* If you use a wrist/palm rest, it should NOT be used while actually keying but in between periods of keying.
* Your hands should glide over the keys. Hands remaining in a fixed position cause fingers to over-reach for the keys. Use a light touch
for keying, keeping your hands and fingers relaxed. -
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The last benefit will cease to exist with the new Thinkpads, unless Lenovo introduces an external USB keyboard with the 6 row layout too. -
As for the dock itself. The only part of the dock I might worry about being bandwidth starved would be the display outputs. What is typically plugged into a docking station? Stuff that is left plugged in and on the desk when the laptop is used on a lap. Screen, mouse, keyboard. USB3 provides sufficient bandwidth for those needs imho. I don't see why the USB3 dock was stupid at all from Lenovo. From a tech geek standpoint, Thunderbolt would have been cool, but there isn't really a need for it. -
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Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
Not to mention added storage that usually gets connected as well. There are 2 display outputs there, if you use those, its going to starve. there is a very palpable difference between the theoretical speed of something and the actual.
Another thing when you buy a dock for your company, you buy it with the idea of using it for more than 1 cycle. A cycle on the larger enterprises that I worked before were 3 years for a total change of the pcs that they have.
I dont see thunderbolt being a niche in the next future, or do you see laptops getting larger and thicker? I dont see that, specially considering that the ulv chips can deliver good enough performance for most people.
Variable TDP cpus + docking stations = death of desktops for most people
Haswell will probably deliver us some interesting designs. -
I just think it's funny because everybody pooped themselves when they doubled the size of the ESC and DEL keys. And Lenovo insisted it was because those were heavily used keys and it reduced errors yadda yadda. And now they're back to normal haha. The keyboard will be difficult to get used to, but if it's done in lenovo style, then hopefully it will be head and shoulders above the other chiclet keyboards out there. And me being the biggest hater-ade drinker when it comes to chiclets, I guess you gotta just go with the flow. The only thing I'll truly miss are the navigate forward/backwards keys that have been replaced by the pg up pg down keys. I really use those a lot! Also I wonder where the FPR's will be on this body style's palmrest. Off under the D-pad, or right by the trackpad.
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You can see that here on the X1 keyboard:
Attached Files:
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External storage might be a problem though.
As for how long the dock will be useful for, I don't see a difference between USB3 and Thunderbolt.
I think that Thunderbolt will be niche since it is more expensive than USB and it's advantages over USB3 aren't needed by most people. It might become the main way to dock ultrabooks or even normal laptops, but docks themselves are somewhat niche. Even if docks do become popular, what advantages does Thunderbolt provide over USB3 when all that is being hooked up to the dock is a mouse keyboard and screen? Would a regular consumer use that advantage and would that consumer find the advantage important enough to spend a lot more on a Thunderbolt dock compared to a USB3 one? -
Just a single display 1920x1080 * 3 bytes/pixel * 60Hz without compression and overhead needs 3Gbps channel, far exceeding capabilities of USB2, but still within theoretical limit of USB3.
Thunderbolt with its current 10 Gbps is better, but still will have difficulties driving 4K+ retina displays of (hopefully) tomorrow without compression.
So for today, DisplayPort 1.2 (17Gbps+) + USB3 is as future-proofed as it gets IMO. Great compatibility with legacy stuff too. -
Karamazovmm Overthinking? Always!
If you are only using a dock for 2 cables, I wouldnt buy a dock. Simple as that.
I dont know, I wouldnt buy a product that I can use only parts of it, do you buy overheating notebooks? I dont.
Do you buy a car that if you have AC on, you can only go up to 60km/h? I dont.
If Im buying something I want it to work as it should.
Its simple:
2 DVI outputs
5 USB 3, if you are doing more than 1 transfer it will bottleneck here already
1 ethernet gigabit
I found out how they are going to use that dual dvi link, via DisplayLink DL-3900 Dual Head Graphics
Is thunderbolt expensive? no it isnt. The new chips are cheap, quite cheap.
Does everybody needs it? No they dont.
Is the idea of intel to have ultrabooks dominating the industry a great idea? For me yes, take it, you have good battery life, dock it, desktop performance.
Building something that it will have limited functionality, I dont think that constitutes as a good idea.
Just imagine that you are downloading something and transferring another thing to a thumb drive in the dock, you are out of bandwidth, and if you are driving the 2 monitors, it will be out of bandwidth. And sincerely that is not an uncommon uber taxing scenario, its a down to earth scenario.
ThinkPad X1, X230, X230t, T430, T430s, T530, W530, L430, L530 Official
Discussion in 'Lenovo' started by Andrew Baxter, May 15, 2012.