Thinking about trying out Lenovo Thinkpads

Hello everyone. I'm a frustrated Dell user. I've used only Dells for years. I got turned on to the Latitude series at work and stuck with them since the D630. However, build quality issues have made me start to consider moving to a different manufacturer.

I loved my Latitude E6410, but it had serious build quality issues. It seemed that every time Dell dispatched a technician to fix one thing, it broke another. Especially the lid assembly, over time the front bezel would seperate for no reason, and after that was fixed, the lid would sometimes pop open on its own.

I then decided to get the E6420 because of its very sturdy build. I like the fact that its mostly metal and seems like a tank. My E6410 had so many problems that Dell replaced it, with another E6420. So now I have two of them.

Although the durability of the E6420 seems better, there are plenty of other problems. The bottom cover on one of them seperates, causing a "creaking" noise each time I put my hands on the palmrest. On the other, the palmrest doesn't attach on the bottom right corner, causing a tapping noise when I put my hands on the palmrest. Also, the two laptops have heat issues, causing the fan to turn on for the simplest tasks, it doesn't make sense. (Even when I'm not running a VM and running only a single browser).
There have been at least 10 dispatches on both, each problem fixed causes another one to appear.

So now, I am considering selling one of my E6420s to get a Lenovo Thinkpad. I'm not sure which one to get though. I am currently researching the difference between the T430, T430s, X1 Carbon, and Thinkpad Edge (is the latter a consumer model)?

I am hoping for the following options:
* Core i7
* Integrated Graphics (I don't care for Nvidia, just another heat generator)
* 1600x900 resolution
* Upgradeable RAM to 16GB (buying RAM from Lenovo is expensive, I'll upgrade it)
* Has to fit my existing 256GB SSD.
* Build quality is very important, I want to make sure it lasts
* If it does have Nvidia, the ability to disable Optimus is mandatory
* I need a decent warranty, that I can extend in the future
* Needs to be able to handle heat well
* I also primarily run Linux, but I doubt this is a problem since Linux works great on modern Intel hardware

With that in mind, is the Lenovo Thinkpad a good choice for me? And if so, which one?

 

The ThinkPad T430 (or second hand T420) would be a good fit, I'm surprised you're having issues with your Latitude E6420 as I found them to be robust with the Tri-Metal casing. Though I do know the early batches had manufacturing issues as my friend had the base separation problem that you mentioned.

Build Quality is a subjective matter, generally I find the current ThinkPads to be above average and solid overall. Though if you expect the tank like feel from your Dell E6420 then you probably find the plastics to feel a bit cheap in comparison, but on the upside it's much lighter to carry around and less bulky than the Latitude while still maintaining that business grade robustness. Coming from the Latitude I would avoid the ThinkPad Edge, they're not your typical ThinkPads despite the name.

Answering your questions:

- For your 256GB SSD it depends on the size, any 7mm drive would fit nicely in the ThinkPad. If it's a 9.5mm drive then you may need an Ultrabay (DVD) Caddy to fit in some models like the T430, the older T420 can cater such sizes natively without an adapter however.

- Some ThinkPad models come with NVIDIA cards that uses Optimus Technology, they're not that much expensive compared to the stock Intel HD Graphics so it could be worth having if you want that extra boost in graphics performance.

- Lenovo does provide Warranty Extensions which you can purchase any time. Bear in mind it's usually cheaper to extend when your system is within the warranty period than for it to expire.

- ThinkPads generally have good cooling solutions, there are also third party applications where you can manually configure the fan speeds to your liking as well.

- Linux and ThinkPads goes well together, well they have been for quite a while now. You may want to browse on the ThinkWiki site for further info on configuring Linux on select ThinkPad models.

 

Thanks for the response. The Thinkpads sound good, but I really wish I had one near me I could play with to get a feel for them before spending the money. How are the idle temperatures, and fan loudness?

My issues with the E6420 have been very numerous. I contacted Dell about replacing the bottom cover and the palm rest, but my experience has been that it will likely cause another issue, such as my luck has been. Here are my current issues in case you were curious:

* I have to use sticky tape to keep my bottom cover from seperating.

* I have had the keyboard replaced a few times. (I'm a heavy typer). Some of the keyboards are good, but some of them are very flimsy, leading me to believe that more than one company manufacturers their keyboards.

* The cooling system completely sucks. 140F with only a web browser open, and 7% total load? I find that bad. I can correct the problem with Arctic Silver, but I don't like to use that.

* I have an SSD in the machine, and find it loud even when the fan is not on. It makes chirping and scratching noises depending on the status of the cstates (it makes the noises most of the time). Sometimes moving the mouse can cause noise. Both of my E6420s do this.

* The palm rest seems flimsy to me. Sometimes it just doesn't connect flush with the base, causing fluctuations where the palm rest meets the frame. At its worst, I've seen bulges in the palm rest, but at its best you can see slight bulges.

* The wireless on/off switch doesn't actually turn on and off the WWAN port, even though its enabled to do so in the BIOS. (I can live without the WWAN port).

There are other issues but I'll stop there. I loved the keyboard on my old E6410 though. Best keyboard I've ever used on a laptop. But with the numerous dispatches on the lid assembly alone, I couldn't deal with it. It's a shame, because I liked that one slightly better.

 

A customer just picked up their E6430, superb little machines. However no issues witnesses that were stated by the OP. Must of been a lemon or something.

Dell uses few (maybe 2-3) different keyboards in their line up for the E6420, each a different manufacturer in my opinion. However I don't believe they have multiple manufacturers per keyboard.
Thinkpad's keyboards are legendary, let's leave it at that. If they dont satisfy you, no other keyboard will.

Anyways a T420 or T430 sound like fine options.

Temperatures are very good, currently using my T420 (i5 2540M). Temperatures hover at around 35c-42c during web surfing. The other great thing about the Thinkpad T series is that the power management lets you rev up the fan to max for when you need it.
Under heavy load, like Prime95, you're looking at around 88c with lenovo's fan control, or around 77c-80c with the max fan on.

They run fairly quiet, very similar to the E6420/30, and E6520/30.

 

Thanks for the reply. I can assure you though that the E6420 problems I have were not uncommon, as I've had those issues on three machines of my own, plus others that a company has ordered. Those temperatures you mentioned in regards to the T420 seem better than I experience. I'd be curious about the T430, if it's the same. The fan on the E6420 is extremely loud in my experience, though.

 

The E64** series uses a maglev fan with around 1w of power. It is not loud itself bu it does distribute a rather weird higher frequency sound at higher rpms compared to other fans (something I noticed on Maglev fans). The higher frequency sound it self is not loud but it's hard to ignore.

As far as quiet goes, the T420 can get a little loud when at max fan speed but if I remember correctly not as loud as the E6420 I used to use.
PS: The airflow on the T420 is darn good for the noise. The utilization of dual heat fins greatly increases the efficiency of the cooling system in long term application (mostly preventing saturation of the system).

If you are looking for a system that is dead quiet, look elsewhere because none of the "top notch" business notebooks I've used have been dead quiet. The best I've found was the E6320 but still not dead quiet.
That includes in recent models (past few years):
Thinkpads T400/10/20, T510/20/30, W520/W530, T60-T61's
Latitude E63**/E64**/E65**
Precision M4600, M4700, M6500/M6600/M6700 <-- Quietest workstations in my opinion.
Elitebook 8510/40, 8410/40/60
Elitebook workstations 15-17, up to Sandy bridge, havent tried any ivy bridge yet.
Of these systems, a couple systems failed thermals in 12 hour heavy usage. (E63** and I forget the other, I think the E6500 or E6510)

Most of them have to have slightly overbuilt cooling system to help keep a 24/7 Stable system, this includes fans that are more efficient, and must be capable of running at max speeds with good efficiency. Higher end consumer laptops are rather poorly built in terms of thermals while they may be efficient at keeping laptops cool for a few hours at most, most consumer laptops have inadequate cooling systems when you speak about long term stability. Most consumer laptops fall to heat saturation.

Heatpipes while efficient, loose that efficiency the hotter they get, not to mention have very low capacity to store heat compared to say water cooling. When that heat capacity is reached, and exhausting the heat cannot keep up with the heat source then saturation occurs (which occurs usually 8-12 hours into heavy load testing like P95).
Once that happens you hit heat spikes. The computer should throttle before this happens, but that's the point: it shouldn't throttle.

 

It doesn't have to be completely silent, but hopefully it's better than the fan being on virtually all the time, even with minimal load.

I hear a lot of comments about the T420. Is that the one I should get? I'm pretty sure the T430 is the only one being sold right now, correct? Hopefully the keyboard on the T430 is as good, being chiclet and all...

 

T420 is what I would recommend.
I am not a fan of the Chiclet keyboard used by Lenovo. While it seems to have fairly similar feedback, it doesn't feel quite the same as far as depth in pressing and distancing between keys. A NBR review says it was "clicky" but I didn't really notice that. The new chiclet keyboard doesn't bug me as far as function goes, however the aesthetics I don't like. I prefer more of the traditional keyboard.

Eh fan is definitely not on at max all the time on my T420 or T430's I've used.

 

The cooling and fan noise of my E6410 are not as good as my T430. By the way, Lenovo just released a BIOS update for T430 to lower the fan noise, but not sure if it applies to T420.

 

Hello everyone! Here is a little update.

I had the palmrest replaced on one of my E6420's, because it was raised and wouldn't properly snap in to the laptop. The new palmrest fits nice and snug but it has a different problem, when on a docking station and the lid is closed, the mouse drifts all over the place. In fact, I can hold my index finger several milimeters above the trackpad, and move the mouse without touching it. My second E6420 is fine right now, but the other E6420 must be a lemon or some sort of bad luck charm. So I decided to get rid of it after I fix the trackpad problem.

In fact, I already ordered my T420:
Lenovo ThinkPad T420 i7 2620M 3 4GHz 8GB 500GB 72K HD LED 1600x900 W764 3YR Wty | eBay

So this is a trial, if I like it a lot better than my other E6420, I might replace them both, but I figured I'd start with one for right now. I'm excited to get it and try it out.

I really wanted to like the E6420, the trimetal casing is cool and all, but their refurbished parts are JUNK and each time my laptops need work, the part I get installed typically has a different problem. I'm tired of dealing with it, so I'll be trying a Thinkpad as soon as it comes in.

 

Not a bad deal you got there.

Sorry to hear about your bad experienced with Dell. At least you are getting a replacement system which should keep you satisfied. Hope it goes well, let me know if you got any questions.

 

My T420 should arrive in 4 days. I hate waiting for technology to arrive, the wait is unbearable. Anyway, in the meantime I do have a question about how Lenovo does their warranties. Is it pretty much the same as Dell? With my E6420's I have NBD with complete care. I have seen Lenovo offer their equivalent of accident protection. Is it pretty much the same level of protection, or does anything differ in some way? I'm thinking of upgrading the warranty once I get it.

 

I am unsure how Lenovo deals with warranties, I've only had to deal with Lenovo for accidental protection once for a customer, and I had to ship the laptop to Lenovo for that. (Screen, top assembly, and usb ports were busted up).
I'd recommend going through their literature.
First difference I can say is: Dell CompleteCare tends to cover some cosmetic damage (at least anytime I've called for my Latitudes and Precisions I am always asked how the condition of the assembly is, any rubber feet missing. Once I mentioned my Latitude had some scratches and the LCD bezel was not fitting tightly. They shipped out an LCD assembly.

Lenovo Services

 

jlacroix, once you get your T420 I highly recommend installing TPFancontrol to optimize the fan, I have mine using the default setting and it's mostly deal quite with SSD. I think you got a decent deal with that T420 config, but if you decide to replace the other E6420 I'd say get a T430, yeah you'll have to deal with the 7mm HDD bay and new keyboard style but Ivy Bridge CPUs are very good, the backlit keyboard is gorgeous, and USB3.0 is nice to have.

 

I run Linux, so I won't have to worry about the fan. I've written a few bash scripts that configure the fan to be more quiet.

In regards to my other E6420, I will probably replace it with a T430s (is that any good)? If I have the extra cash to do so. My other E6420 is working fine right now, but I don't really trust it after all I've been through. I've come to the conclusion that there isn't anything wrong with the E6420's themselves, the problem must be with the QA process in regards to Dell's replacement (refurbished) parts. Because every time something is replaced on one of my E6420's, something else goes wrong.

Whether or not I replace my other E6420 with a T430 or T430s may come down to the warranty. I don't want to spend over $1300 on a laptop unless I can get good accident coverage.

 

T430s is good too, if you get the i7 model you will get Thunderbolt port as well.

 

Thunderbolt is only available on the i7 with integrated GPU.

 

Integrated is fine with me, I prefer not to have Nvidia graphics if I can at all help it. (Extra source of heat).

 

Plus for T430s you can only get the NVS 5200M, which has even less performance advantage over the integrated HD4000.

 

That may be a deal killer in regards to the T430s. If I'm going to get another Lenovo it may be a T430. I really wish someone I knew had a T430 so I could check it out.

 

The sky is the limit.

All it takes is more money.

 

Hello everyone!

My Thinkpad arrived. I've only had it for a few hours now, but so far my initial reaction is that it is great. After I get more accustomed to the machine, I'll decide if I want to replace my current E6420 with another Thinkpad. Not sure what to do with that yet. I may transfer my 16GB of RAM from my E6420 to my Thinkpad if they take the exact same type.

How do I transfer the warranty into my name?

 

The Dell E6420 (Sandy Bridge) uses DDR3 204-pin 1333MHz RAM.

If you get a T420, you can transfer the existing RAM modules to the T420.

If you get a T430, those modules would work fine in the T430, but not at 1600MHz supported by Ivy Bridge memory controller.

 

Wow! This laptop is really awesome. It's even running cooler than my Latitude, and it feels so much nicer. I can't say enough good things about it. Is the general consensus that Thinkpads are received better than Latitudes?

I am thinking about adding accident coverage on it. I imagine that should be doable.

Thanks. The one I have now is a T420 so that should work then.

 

Hello again everyone. I am loving my Thinkpad but have the following two issues:

1.) This is VERY trivial, but I'm just curious if this is normal. The trackpad seems to have flex if I press down between the top middle of the trackpad and the middle click button. Is that normal?

2.) The fan seems to want to run at 3200+ RPM all the time. It seems to only take off after about 15 minutes of usage, however. But after that, it's nonstop. The temperatures are not overheating or anything. It's running somewhere between 40-50c most of the time. Is this a normal Thinkpad thing? So far I've updated the BIOS, and in the BIOS setup I set the power management scheme to battery optimized and balanced instead of performance.

 

There is flex in the chassis, but minimal and not a concern right below it is the magnesium roll cage which will prevent it from flexing to the point of breaking.

No Thinkpad's are not better than latitudes, and vice versa.
They each have their pro's and cons. (Latitude feel a bit more solid for example, and have better LCD construction).

The fan will stay around 3000-3300 rpm using it's BIOS fan management. It is normal, you can use something like TPFancontrol and set it to "smart" which will help a bit.

 

Thank you. Has the T430 made any improvements to the constant fan noise/speed?

 

I am not 100% sure on the T430 but the T530 was the same as the T520.
I would say it's the same.

 

Here's an update for you guys.

I've had some time with my T420, and while I had mixed feelings at first, I now prefer it over my E6420. My first complaint was the loud and constant fan, but I realize now that the trade-off is that my T420 always runs about 20 degrees cooler than my E6420 (same exact processor). That makes me feel more confident about its longevity. I also notice that the fan doesn't run all the time with the AC adapter unplugged, even when I'm running the processor at the exact same frequency as when the AC adapter is plugged in. This leads me to believe that there is some sort of intelligence in the BIOS that tells the fan to run more often when plugged in. I can set my watch to it, unplug the AC adapter, and 30 seconds later, the fan slows down dramatically. (No load at all when I tested it, using the same ondemand scheduler). Just thought that would be interesting to note.

The only remaining complaint I have with the T420 vs the E6420 is that the screen is MUCH better on the E6420 (both HD+). On the E6420, the screen is much brighter and crisper. I'm able to live with this, though. I can't have everything perfect.

I decided on 02/01/2013 to replace my E6420 and I ordered a T430. I should have it next week. I hope that the screen on the T430 isn't dim like the T420 screen is. I'll probably still accept it if it is, I just hope that Lenovo made an improvement there.

Here is how my T430 looks, total is $1246.27.
---
Processor Intel Core i7-3520M
Operating system Windows 7 Home Premium 64
Operating system Language Win7 HP64 English
Total memory 4 GB PC3-12800 DDR3 (1 DIMM)
Hard drive 320GB HDD 7200rpm
Optical device DVD Recordable, UBE w/SWR
Battery 9cell LI Battery TWL70++
Bluetooth Bluetooth 4.0 w/ antenna
WiFi wireless LAN adapters Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205
Wireless WAN accessories Mobile Broadband upgradable
Warranty Type 1 Year Depot/Express Warranty
AC Adapter and Power Cord 90W AC Adpt US (2pin)
Camera T430 720p HD Camera Mic
Display Panel T430 14.0HD+ Anti-Glare, WWAN
Keyboard Language KYB US English
Pointing device T430 UltraNav without FPR
Publication Language Pub; US English
Security Chip 2 Security Chip Enabled
Storage Adapter No Micro Solid State Drive
System Unit T430 NVIDIA Optimus with 1GB
System expansion slots T430 Exp CS & 4-1 CR
45K5980 1YR Onsite + 1YR ThinkPad Protection

The accident protection and NBD warranty drove the cost up a bit, but I'd rather have my investment protected. I ordered it with Windows 7 Home, because I'll be putting Linux on it, so no need for upgrading to Professional. If I ever do decide to run Windows on it, I have several unused Windows 7 Pro licenses anyway.

I'm really looking forward to my T430, but the suspense with the waiting period of getting a new laptop is extremely tough to handle. I ordered a 16GB memory upgrade, and a 7mm SSD to put in it, which will probably arrive before the laptop does.

Thanks guys!

 

Zero improvement there. Same low-quality screens.

 

Well, at least now I know not to get my hopes up on the LCD.

 

Don't get your hopes up. However..... My new T430s (these use the same screens as the T430) has a nicer screen than the ones most T420/s and T430/s owners have been complaining about. My AUO-made screen is markedly brighter and nicer than the one in my friend's T420s and I don't notice a 'screen door' effect (although the antiglare does allow a slight shimmer). The Samsung and LG screens seem to be the dimmer/grainier ones but I think Lenovo are using them less for recent builds.

So I hope you get a screen like I got. I'm picky (and found some things to complain about on my Thinkpad) but I'm satisfied with this screen. The one thing I did change to get the screen to my satisfaction is to add a better color profile to the system.

I should also mention that I read a ton of support forum posts to get a feel for the qualities of various systems before buying my new system... There are a couple of other problems that some T430's have suffered besides a crummy screen: 1) Wifi connection repeatedly drops/reconnects for no obvious reason, and 2) complaints of fan noise (uh oh). The first problem has been officially addressed and you probably won't encounter it if your system was made after November (if you do encounter it, it is a defect and you should treat it as such). The second problem also seems to have been addressed with a BIOS update according to a comment earlier in this thread.

Good luck with your new Thinkpad!

 

Thank you. I will have it eventually, after Lenovo finally decides to ship it.

In regards to the Wifi problem, if I have that issue, how often does it disconnect?

 

My T430s doesn't seem to have the problem. But I noticed others were complaining (esp. around last summer-fall) of repeated disconnects every few minutes. If you have a unit made after November like mine then you should be fine.

FWIW on the noise issue, the 14" Thinkpads go something like this order (loudest to quietest): T420s, T430, T420, T430s... At least judging by the forum activity for each model at Lenovo.com.

 

Thanks. Mine shipped today so I guess I'll get it in a week or so and I'll see for myself.

 

Hope you love your T430s...

As a cautionary note about wireless, see this message I posted about a possible pitfall with the T430s antenna wires:
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-and-newer-T-series/T430s-no-WLAN/m-p/1041931#M75610

So your RAM door should not have a bulge in it, and you need to be really careful when closing the door to avoid pinching the wires.

 

I purchased a T430, not T430s. Does that still apply to me?

I have only a few minor issues with my T430:

1.) If I set it to discrete graphics only (Linux doesn't support Optimus) my Linux install freezes within a few seconds of the desktop appearing. I am pretty sure this is because the kernel in Ubuntu 12.10 may not support this chipset as well as newer kernels do so this will probably resolve itself. Right now I have it set to Integrated graphics and it works beautifully.

2.) I notice that there is some flex in the keyboard. The flex is basically in the bottom right corner of the keyboard, where the right arrow is. Is this normal? I notice it too from a lesser extent on the bottom left side as well.

Overall, I have only had the laptop for six days but so far I think it is the best laptop I have ever owned. My initial opinion is that this machine is far superior to the E6420/E6430. While the E6420/E6430 has tri-metal casing, the build quality of them seem to be a joke. I had someone bring me an E6430 to look at so I can see if the problems from the E6420 were fixed, and I noticed it had the same palm rest issue where it doesn't connect all the way and has flex that makes edges of the palmrest rise ABOVE the frame. Not a big problem, but with the Latitude being a $1300-ish laptop, that kind of build quality is inexcusable. Dell can put whatever metal they want on the Latitudes and that's all well and good, but it doesn't hide the fact that the new Latitudes are cheap garbage. After having my T430 for almost a week, there's no way I would use a Latitude again unless they finally fix all their build issues. As far as the cooling system, both my T420 and T430 run 20-30 degrees cooler than my Latitudes by comparison, and they use the same chips! (Yes, I have tried Arctic Silver on the newer Latitudes, they still have heat issues).

In regards to the T430 keyboard, I think it is one of the best keyboards I have ever used. I know a lot of people complain about it not being traditional, but I think the keyboard is absolutely perfect. I am actually thinking about selling my spare T420 to get another T430 because it's hard for me to go back to the T420 keyboard after using the T430 keyboard. The reason I say that the T430 keyboard is "one of the best" and not the absolute best is because the Latitude E6410 had an amazing keyboard. On the E6410 I used to have, the non-backlit keyboard is still the best typing experience I've ever had on a keyboard. I don't know if it was the specific part source I got for the keyboard, but it was great. I later upgraded to the backlit keyboard on the E6410 and found it to be completely terrible. I don't know what Dell was thinking when they designed their backlit keyboards. The keyboards got much worse on the E6420/E64230 so the T430 easily dwarfs them as far as typing experience goes.

On my T430, I don't have a backlit keyboard which is kind of a drag but not a deal killer. I didn't have an option for that when I built it.

The RAM upgrade was a complete chore. I had such a hard time removing the keyboard on this thing that it took me 30 minutes to get the blasted thing off, and in the process the metal clips of the keyboard scratched the palm rest. I was able to put the 16GB upgrade in, but seriously, the keyboard is not made to be removed!

 

A drag? You wouldn't praise the keyboard had your T430 come with a backlit keyboard. The non-backlit feels and types better. Also, keyboard sources/suppliers (there being 3) do create differences.

Removing the keyboard? Undo the screws underneath. Put your longer fingers of both hands near the top edge of the keyboard (toward the screen), push down and forward (toward the screen). The keyboard's bottom edge (toward you) simply pops up. That's all.

 

Ah. I noticed the same exact thing on the Latitude. Maybe I'll steer clear from backlit keyboards going forward.

It wasn't that easy on mine. I did exactly that, following the service manual. On my T420 it was a cinch. On the T430 I had to keep working it for a long time before it would come off..

Edit: I just tried for the heck of it to get the keyboard off. It was easier this time, but still a pain. I pushed down and forward and the keyboard slid out, but it does not pop up. I had to carefully coax it to lift up by placing a very skinny screwdriver in the crack. It was still hard, but not as bad as the first time.

Since I took the keyboard out, I went ahead and bent the bottom left and bottom right corners of the keyboard downward, so when I put the keyboard back in it eliminated most of the flex.

 

Bingo! (I would put some pieces of masking tape at those spots on the underside of the keyboard.)

 

Maybe I'll do that but I think that it's fine now.

Overall I'm very pleased with this thing. It's one hell of a machine and I think it will last me a long time. I love the battery life with the 9-cell battery. This thing is fast, lasts a long time on battery, stays cool, and I am able to get my work done.

 

Yeah, it is. If Lenovo cared enough to equip the T430 with a great 1600x900 screen, it would be "near perfect."

I love the size of my T420, but spend more time with my T520 because of its FHD screen.

 

Maybe I lucked out but I really don't see anything wrong with my 1600x900 screen. I think it looks great.