Thinking of X60s

Hi

I'm thinking of making a move on a Thinkpad X60s. Dispite the fact that I'm a resolution-freak

Some questions though.
Is it possible to upgrade the CPU to a merom? Or perhaps the CPU is soldered?
Haven't seen any mention of this in the bios upgrades.

Any new ultraportable from lenovo coming out? The x60s isn't that new and wouln't be fun to get one just before a new one comes out.

Also I'm a bit worried about the noise/heat, any comments on that?

 

No.

Yes, but when is anyone's guess.

The X60s is very quiet but some people feel that the palm rest gets too warm. A forum search will yield additional answers to your questions.

 

As far as ultraportables from Lenovo, just the X60 tablet in October but nothing until next year after that. Fred is correct, no Merom upgrade available.

 

Thanks.

Haven't found much info about the x60s actually. More than a couple of reviews but I value user experiences alot too.

But it is theoretically possible for Lenovo to release an BIOS so that you can upgrade it?
Perhaps I'm beeing to optimistic.

Just feels wrong to spend that much money on a laptop that I'm planning on using for many years and not get 64 bit. I will run Vista and *nix, both of which utilizes 64 bits (MS stating that 32-bit Vista won't support HDCP (not that HDCP is a deal-breaker on an ultraportable that doesn't even have DVI but that makes one wonder what other features that you might losse (due to unsufficient *DRM security*))). Although might not be an issue. Don't know what to think, the performance of the CPU is good although still so are pretty much all CPUs today and tomorrow applications might get (more) adapted to that - and compared to other dualcores it isn't that fast. It's among the slowest dualcores around actually.

Gah, I'm just rambling :\
Chances are great that I will live happily ever after with an x60s, I just don't feel good about gambling. Although there aren't that many alternatives that can compare to the x60s - even fewer (if any?) when considering merom.

Besides 64bit it would certainly be possible to prolong the lifespan of the laptop if the CPU could be upgradable in the future.

 

I thought Meroe is impossible for the LV Core Duos but possible with the T Core Duos?

Anyways, I think the X60 is great. Although 1024 x 760 is small it is actually great with with 12.1" sized screen.

 

Merom runs about 30% hotter and drains the battery much more. Not good things in an ultraportable. I doubt that 64-bit computing is an issue if you buy now, for the lifespan of the X60. I say that based on the history of 32-bit processing when it first emerged. No apps are gonna ignore 32-bit processing for at least a couple of years, given that the vast majority of computers in existence will still be 32-bit for at least a couple of years .

 

Hum?
I've read that Merom performs better and runs cooler (although the difference are barely noticable when it comes to heat). Sure, the performance isn't much better either although noticable in multimedia (/me like).

You are probably right, no major apps are going to ignore 32-bit computers. But as said, even now restrictions of 32 bit systems are showing in vista (which hasn't even been released). And there are plenty of small *must-have* utilities that might not be supported for 32 bit in 2-4 years. Would be a pity.

From the conclusion of anandtechs test:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808&p=17

Power consumption test:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808&p=14

Granted they didn't use a low-voltage CPU but nothing that I know of indicates that a low-voltage merom would consume more power than the one in x60s.
Same price, better performance, slightly better (although barely noticable) battery-life and 64-bit support. Really not much that isn't speaking for merom.

You are probably right but still, I'm not feeling comfortable with it (I'm certain that most people can live with 32 bit for atleast 5 years but I don't count myself to *most people* when it comes to computers)

(from same article)
The x60s uses 945 GM if I'm not misstaken so it should work (with BIOS support).

 

SkiBunny is correct. The Merom drains more battery than the Yonah. If you want to upgrade to Vista, why not wait for VMware Workstation to support Vista 64bit. It already supports 64bit Linux (Ubuntu).

 

I'm in need of a laptop too (dorm). However, I can't allow myself to buy the X60s either until I know for a fact nothing better from Lenovo is coming out before January.

 

No, this is just a misstatement being repeated by people who got bamboozled by the DailyTech articles. Merom's TDP is a design parameter to use when designing notebooks. What matters to users is what the processor actually does...which the tests from AnandTech articles are showing turns out to be just holding steady with some slightly improved performance.

 

I think the L2400 is only offered by Intel in a soldered on package. No ZIF means no upgrade. But maybe Lenovo is getting special chips.

 

The T2400 on the system board of the X60 is also, soldered. This...and the 1024x768 is what made me get a T60p. I probably would've jumped on the X60 if not for the non-upgradeable CPU.

 

don't even get started on who's biased and who's not..i mean you're using anandtech..might as well have said tomshardware or pcmag..but back to the topic..since costs are more less the same as yonah..best to go with the 7200 i believe which is lowest proc speed you can buy that would come with the 4MB cache

 

I'm in the same boat you guys are regarding the x60s. If you need something now, get it. If you don't, wait until next summer.

Merom is a nice upgrade over Yonah- 64 bits, the same battery life in real world testing, about 10-15% real world performance gains over Yonah. If all you're doing is webbrowsing and typing, I don't really see why you need more power. If you do need more power, perhaps you should pick up a T series when Merom is available in October. Like other people have said, the x series from IBM/Lenovo have soldered CPUs.

The TDP is merely an envelope of maximum power the CPU is expected to use. I doubt that the lower clocked Meroms utilize the full 34W TDP. It's just a measure of safety for Intel to have a higher TDP.

You could wait until next year when the low voltage Merom comes out. But if you're going to wait that long, you might as well wait for Santa Rosa in the summer which include: a much better integrated graphics processor (8 pipelines), 802.11n (a much faster wireless with greater range than g), a faster front side bus (800mhz) to utilize Merom's full potential (approximately Conroe performance) and that Robson flash memory HD (for quick boots w/Vista.) Also, Vista should be out so you won't have to upgrade. Plus you can pay the premium on all those new features when they come out (sort of how WWAN is an extra 250 dollars on x60s/x60). It's your money.

 

It looks like power consumption was a problem with some engineering samples, but it appears it's been straightened out. Well, these very brief tests indicate they have to some degree, but only time in our hands will tell just how much. But these tests actually show a faster Merom having lower temps and longer battery life than a slower Yonah.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=288

 

It should also be pointed out that with a 20% higher IPC and a 10% higher TDP, the chip still offers better power consumption even by Intel's numbers.

 

?
That would defeat pretty much any purpose of having 64 bit anyway.


Too bad that the CPU was soldered. That kinda limits future upgrades
Although shouldn't lenovo upgrade the CPU anyway?

Normal Core Duo CPUs are being replaced by merom (as far as I know) and I doubt that lenovo has enough stock to supply with old Core Duo CPUs until next year.

But if low-voltage Meroms isn't coming out until next year I'm out of luck anyway (thought they would launch at the same time).

 

Maybe, but from what I assume, the virtual drive that is created by VMware would make the OS think that it is running under 64bits. I don't know. I'm new to VMware anyway. Wishful thinking.

 

Yeah and instead of a small performance-increase you would probably see a huge performance loss.

 

No matter what, it'll be obsolete in 2 years. Even if you could/did upgrade the processor, so many other components will be behind that you'll want a completely new system instead. IMHO

 

I don't agree. In an ultraportable (from my point of view) I will mainly use the CPU, memory and harddrive.
Such things as graphics, sound, wireless doesn't really matter as long as it just works - and will surely do that just fine in 5 years too.
And I would have the option for an wireless-card in the future too.

The speed of the memory isn't that important - the size of it greatly overcompensates the need for speed (generally speaking). I will get atleast 1 gig pretty soon (if I decide to go with an x60s). The CPU - well if I could I'd love an 64 bit merom...

And harddrives doesn't evolve that much at all. And thats also the cheapest and easiest part to replace (pretty much, ram isn't that big a deal either ). And with upcoming NAND-drives that would make quite a difference - perhaps way more than an whole new laptop (if you ignore graphics, sound, wireless - which to me doesn't matter that much at all (as long as it just works) - otherwise I wouldn't be looking for an ultraportable). Of course an NAND drive wouldn't be cheap (although I'd certainly wait for the prices to drop quite a bit). But it wouldn't be cheaper buying one inside a whole new laptop either.

The resolution might be considered dull in a couple of years (I think it is today, but thats what I'm willing to trade for an ultraportable). And considering what you do on an ultraportable it isn't that big a deal I think.

My father bought an (non-ultraportable) laptop three years ago and there are mainly two things that I would like to upgrade to make it feel fast again. And thats the harddrive and more ram.
Although the CPU was more state of the art than an L2400 is today and I think that the demand will increase (plus 64 bits) - thats why I would like too have the option to upgrade the CPU later on.

Laptops doesn't age as fast as ordinary computers do.
IMHO

 

I think laptops age faster than desktops because desktops are easier to upgrade.

Two years from now, by Sept 2008, there will be terrabyte drives spinning much faster than 5400 rpm. And your x60s will be incompatible with that technology. It will also be incompatible with the massively larger and faster RAM then too. And yep the screen will be much better.
IMHO hehe

 

We'll probably have terabyte drives by the first quarter of next year, but I doubt we'll be above 400-500GB for notebook drives by Sept. 2008. I'm really not sure if we should expect 10k drives in notebooks by then either, but it sure would be sweet if someone started taking advantage of the space in 15 and 17" notebooks and threw in a SCSI controller and a Savvio drive, maybe when the Savvio goes SAS. That's just my speculation, though.

I'm not very excited over NAND. It's pretty horribly slow when it comes to anything beyond the smallest files. That's because access time is great, but transfer speeds are still very poor. Sure they could use some striping, but that will just enhance the other major problem with NAND flash, and that's the limited write cycles. That makes it very poorly suited for anything that's rewritten regularly. I'm much more excited about MRAM ramping up.

 

Yeah, hopefully those issues will be fixed. I'm couting on it but perhaps I'm being optimistic.

SATA 2 is backward compatible with SATA (which the X60s uses). 3-4 years from now you will probably be able to put any top-of-the-line harddrives in your current notebook (as long as your notebook supports SATA). 2 years from now I would be very surprised if they have skipped on SATA 2 and jumped on another technology. Such things just doesn't happen. The market moves slowly because everyone relies on everyone else.

And even if something new comes out in the first three years that isn't backwardcompatible ( very unlikely) SATA would still be supported for many years. Just look at PATA...

And SATA is not going to be a bottleneck for notebook-drives for probably atleast 5 years or something (probably *never* - until we move to some other storage-media).

 

What is under my right palm rest??
Because it's very warm there, even when the machine isn't busy.

 

Last year when I was looking everyone was saying wait for 64 bit and vista. It looks like there is always something new to wait for. In an ultra potable notebook like my x31 all I really need and plan to do is word, spread sheets and internet. It will even run any program I use at work and I highly doubt the company will upgrade all the computers in the next 3 years.

If I need to play games or graphic intensive software I use a desktop. Untill the Microsoft office on my computer is not compatable with newer versions of office or my wallet somehow grows I'll keep using my X31. I am afraid there are many many everyday people out there like myself that are in the same position.

If you need a computer and want an ultraportable then get the X60s. If it is anything like my X31 you will be thrilled for the next several years.

 

It is your wifi card. Atheros tends to run hotter than the Intel.

 

Really? (makes sense cuz mine is hot even while idling)

Darn, I specifically wanted Atheros for its better range.

Many of the preconfigured X60 and X60s come with atheros... that means the X60s will be a hot little bugger too?

My T-series has Atheros and it's not warm whatsoever (much bigger case)

 

bumping old x60 thread-

ski bunny, when you turn off your wireless, does the heat reduce any? So the wireless accounts for more heat than the processor even? x60s has a 15w vs 31w in x60. Hopefully a little cooler.

What is hotter at the palmrest- your t60 or your x60?

 

LOL this thread is almost a year old!! You obviously were searching for answers, good onya!

My X60 right palmrest is much much warmer than the T60. The X has an atheros wifi under the palmrest but the T has a 7200rpm drive. Warmth is not an issue with the T, but it was uncomfortable with the X in summer. It's a common complaint among X60/s owners. It appears to still be warm with the X61, according to the review here by dietcokefiend.

When the wifi is off, the X is considerably coooler on the right palmrest.

I dont think the LV vs regular processor makes a perceptible difference as far as the warmth of the palmrest is concerned. It's the wifi card. The intel card might not be as warm, but users reported other issues about very poor wifi connectivity on the X with the intel (but not the T). The LV will give you slightly longer life on battery, but if you set the power setting to max battery on the X60, the difference is small. So I'd say buy the one that happens to be the better deal at the time. If you dont mind a hot palmrest while surfing wirelessly.

 

Ah, thanks.

Pick your poison then. Too hot, or poor connectivity. Can't have ultraportable w/o some sacrifice.

 

Yes. But i dont know if everyone had poor wifi with the intel card. Some ppl did last year tho.

The thing I dislike about the X is the small xga screen. Whether UL or not.

The thing I love about it is the size. The X60/s is HALF the size of the 14" T61, and about one-third the size of the 15.4" T61. The X also weighs almost 3 pounds less.

Pros and cons.