Thinkpad Series durability?

I know that there is no way you can take an entire series of products (such as thinkpads, or ford cars, or whatever) and sum it up and say they are all universally "good" products or anything like that.

However, I got my hands on a thinkpad that was 4 years old yesterday and I was amazed. It looked brand new. The owner claims she has abused the hell out of it, and I for the most part believe her.

I had an HP NC8430 that I got around the same time as her and within 3 years my computer looked very old, very used while hers still looks brand new.

It's design is a bit timeless IMHO because, while it looks physically brand new.. the design made me originally question just how old it was..

The way manufacturers make laptops now.. there is such a focus on on aesthetics that having a minimalistic/industrial/utilitarian alone makes a laptop appear 10 years old..

Either way.. I personally love the over all look, and I really love the way even after 4 years her thinkpad looks brand new.

I have never seen this with any other laptop that has actually been moved around. My hp showed wear and tear, My friend had to completely replace her dell after two years, My girlfriends mac looks like absolute crap after like a year and a half.

I am wondering if this the owner of the thinkpad is just lucky? or if maybe lenovo just pays more attention to the durability aspect of laptops in their thinkpad brand?

 

My little brother's friend had a thinkpad, it had something like a 1.2Ghz processor and a 40gb hard drive. It flew with linux on it and wasn't too shabby with windows xp.

He beat that thing up real good, the only damage I remember on it was a crack in the upper right corner where he dropped it... while it was on.

The style is pretty timeless, they want it to look like a laptop; not something an alien or millionare would have. Still, they are some great computers, that is, as long as your not going to game on it. (although I don't believe in gaming on a laptop) cheers mate, I pretty much completely agree.

 

With the higher end models such as the W520, even gaming is completely possible. Sure, they are not designed for gaming, but if it works, it works.

 

I remember reading someplace (possibly this forum) a comment on Thinkpad's durability. It went something like this:

'I'd never want to try to steal a Thinkpad from someone. They'd yank it out of my hands, beat me to death with it, then use it to email all their friends.'

That's the level of durability people expect out of a Thinkpad.

 

I think it's the materials. I dropped my battery on the ground, and there were some scratches, but I rubbed the plastic bits that were still hanging off and it looks smooth and good as new. Similarly the entire outside of the case is metal with dull finish, so it's hard to tell if there's a scratch. The black finish seems like it's anodized so it is very durable and doesn't come off at all. Scratches, dents, don't show up at all. Thinkpads will stay new looking because of this.

However I think with regards to actual durability, they might not be doing so well anymore. My X220 hit something with the left corner and the 2 piece screen proved untrustworthy; the metal holding the plastic piece that has the antennas and webcam snapped clean off. It was a tiny 1/4" piece on both sides. I was VERY surprised that so little material was holding the screen together. The bottom side of the chassis also took a bit of damage but just a little dent and when I bent it back a bit it formed a small crack in a non-essential area.

All that said when I opened it up, I could see how there are basically...crumple zones...designed to protect the internal components in the case of an impact. Magnesium alloy makes it pretty much impossible to repair but it keeps the weight down. It's pretty amazing design, I just really wish they made the screen a bit stronger on the X220. I'd give up a tiny weight increase for that, as I now have a tough epoxy job to do.

 

What model Thinkpad did you get ?

I have a T61 that is 3 1/2 years old and (besides a slightly glossy looking keyboard), still looks 99% brand new. Even the original yellow tape that holds the card reader thingy on the left side next to the Intel / Windows stickers on the palm rests are still intact lol

The longest I have kept a laptop (I keep them until there is NO possible way of fixing them if / when they break ) was a 5 year old Toshiba Satellite laptop. That thing looked VERY used at the end of 2 years. At 5 years, I had missing keys, battery lasting 10 minutes, DVD player stopped working, laptop would shut off occasionally because of overheating issues, etc.
I can't wait to see how my T61 will be at the 5 year mark !

 

My newest ThinkPad is a T60 and it still looks relatively new. The 2 refurbished Z61t's I bought had slightly faded keyboards, but overall good condition. Can't beat that timeless ThinkPad look..

 

I used my ThinkPad X30 as my main computer for 7 years (2003-2010) while I was in the computer science PhD program. I took it with me on my daily bike commute. I finally retired it when I graduated in 2010. It is still in decent cosmetic condition, and it still works. The LCD hinges are a little loose, but that is about it.

I expect that my X200 will hold up just as well, but I have only had it for less than a year. Time will tell.

 

Was your Thinkpad in a saddlebag, or a backpack?

 

I bought my T61 in late 2008 and it's still going strong and looks almost new.

 

Timelessness black box design and durability are the two most important things that draws me to the Thinkpad laptops.

No other laptop companies kept their laptop design faithful to the original design goal after couple of years. But Thinkpad design has been what it is (with slight modifications along the way) since the heyday of the Thinkpad brand.

 

Backpack for the first 3 years, saddlebag for the rest 4 years. I do keep it in a ZeroShock sleeve during transportation though.

 

To the person asking what thinkpad I got. I have not gotten it yet but, am probably going to get the x120e around the 23rd.

After seeing a 4 year old laptop with no signs of wear and tear I'm just about sold really.

I wish other manufacturers would take a hint from this.. Its not all about looks. Oh well "speak with your wallet" as the saying goes.

 

We rotate our old Thinkpads out onto the factory floor (CNC machines, air thick with oil) and they still look good. Almost all of our T42s and T60s are out there now... chugging along perfectly.

We've recycled very few laptops in the last 7 years. The few issues we do have with laptops are the T60s with bad fan assemblies - replacing them takes a $50 part and 10 minutes.

The only physical wear that's really noticeable is the keyboard wear. If that bothers you though, it's something like $50 to replace.

 

Sounds like it'd be easier than greasing a grinding fan manually.

 

Yeah, I was using my T410 that I got last year when my friend commented on it looking like a 10 year old computer. I really do love the timeless Thinkpad design and am actually glad to be using their redesigned trackpad that's rough feeling and bigger. It does look nice and clean like Apple's laptops. As for laptops, I'd probably stick with Lenovo, Apple, or HP's Elite-series.

 

My X220i is as good as any ThinkPad I've used, but as always, plain old dumb luck probably plays the preponderant role in determining durability.

 

I have had my T400 for nearly 3 years now and still looks brand new.

 

lol. I love that it looks 10 years old and brand new at the same time.

It has what I'd call a "classic shape".

I mean really.. as the saying goes "if its not broke don't fix it". and I would rather a computer that still looks brand new in terms of wear and tear even if it looks much older in terms of design.

To me a computer that doesn't show every little bit of wear and tear is much more important than a more "modern" design or the computer itself looking "pretty".

Honestly, I personally think the Thinkpad logo on the outside and inside of the device gives it a very edgy look.

@ZaZ

I do imagine that luck has a part in it. I mean lemons exist in every brand/category.

And dumb luck does have a part in it however, I have never seen a laptop age that well in my life and there seems to be a few people saying the same thing.. Not something I can say for other brands.

 

Can't comment on the previous owner of my T61 (bought it used), but even if he did beat it up, it lasted. When I got it, I had to put some work into restoring it (along with some in-warranty depot work), but it's been chugging along quite well in my lab with zero problems. It also stays decently cool, with the stock Merom processor and stock thermal paste.

Maybe, if I get around to it, I'll swap the proc and thermal paste. I expect this laptop to last me for a few more years.

 

I have a T60 that's four years old.

People sometimes refer to me as destructive, not sure why. When I was using a desktop computer, It wasn't uncommon for a keyboard to last a week, and in one case a day.

Got the laptop. Dropped it. Still worked. Continue to drop it on average once a week from off the counter, the bed, the table, etc. I trip over it, ripped it out of the wall and it sometimes bounces a few times before it stops. The dogs jump on it. The dog likes to jump on the screen and make it fly backwards. it went to vegas with me and almost got me kicked out of Treasure Island because I had it in a zero shock backpack and it went flying out of my arms and bounced around the floor of the casino. The security people don't like it when you crawl on their floor chasing backpacks and spilled soda drinks.

Last week I dropped it or smashed it against something, and chipped a tiny piece off. I was bitter but I guess it's not bad for four years of torture. Oh yes, it also travels every weekend getting tossed in the trunk, the backseat, under the luggage....under the dogs....

I probably should treat it nicer but eh, why? It'll last another four years I'm sure

 

Unless you bought keyboards made of chocolate muffin, it is very uncommon for a keyboard to just last a week, or another explanation maybe that you are using your keyboard as a chopping board. And from your post, who drops their laptop once a week, how clumpy can people get?

 

The nickname I was given as a kid is the "walking disaster". I have a hard time doing just one thing...if I'm watching TV I'm also reading or working on the computer...and the computer will have several programs I'm switching between. So when I get up, my mind is somewhere else and snags the edge of the laptop as I run out of the room, causing it to crash...or slides off my lap when I stand up, or I knock it off trying to reach for something else! I dropped my cell phone twice yesterday alone while I was talking on it. I always have bruises I can't explain, and walk into doors and wall corners on a pretty consistent basis.
The thinkpad has done great surviving! I pick it up by the screen all the time when I walk by, and that has no issues either. I have had to replace five keyboards in the last four years, but twice was only because the cockatoo escaped and flew to the keyboard and tore it up.

 

Had a T400 for 3 years. I lost one of the arrow keys, but otherwise no complaints at all. To compare, I had a Dell beforehand. After 3 years, lost two keyboard keys, hinges were coming loose, the plastic vent/grill around the fan assembly was collapsing. It was basically ready to go into a dumpster.

 

My fiancee has said my ThinkPads look like 10-year old computers. They're solid as rocks and structurally sound. Meanwhile, her 3-year old Dell Studio is falling apart and has horrible hinges. My 3-year old T61 is still like new.

 

I agree w/ formerglory because my T61 has the same feeling as I first used it (no keyboard flex and great horizontal views).

 

This thread is full of accolades for Thinkpads of "yore," especially T61's, and how they look and perform like new years later.

I have concerns about the latest crop of their products, especially the X-220, which I am about to buy. I have seen more reports of quality problems - and poor support from Lenovo when they occur - for this hugely popular (and bargain priced) model, that I wonder if the insanely aggressive pricing and likely unprecedentedly high volumes have resulted in un-Thinkpad-like quality control problems and perhaps durability issues as well. Can we hear from more, like Zaz, who have purchased recent models and have owned Thinkpads through the years, and comment on the apparent quality control and design, since only time will tell if shortcuts were taken but initial quality will tell much about the future for these models.

Thanks.

 

aggressive pricing is due to several things:

1. Lenovo wants to increase sales and dropped the profit margin they are making from each machine.

2. Because the technology and manufacturing process that is used to make the ultraportable is no longer any more advanced or tedious than making say a T420. And they are priced accordingly.

3. Lenovo no longer charging a premium for a ultraportable machine, and priced accordingly.

4. X220 have increased the fraction of parts shared with other Thinkpad laptop. For the first time i can remember that the X series laptop use the same keyboard (i.e. interchangable) as the other T, W series Thinkpads. This lowered production cost is passed onto the final consumers.

Producing more doesn't mean the quality would necessary would go down. Traditionally many laptop manufacturer have used prestige pricing model on ultraportable grade machines, to ensure exclusivity to only a small selected market. But in the recent years, most manufacturers have started to move away from that sort of business models.

 

Yeah I've had 3 Thinkpads over the years, and my new X220 feels just as solid and well built as my two previous.

I am not doubting the durability of this machine one bit.

 

You sure *do* seem to have quite a lot of posts where you're "just wondering" about quality...

Good idea!

Hi.

Since the early 90s I've owned and/or used: 750cs, multiple 600s, T41, T43p, X40, X60, X60s, X61, X61s, T60 (14 inch), T60p, T400, T500, T420i, X200, X200s and have used (through work) an X201, T410, T42, T60 (15 inch), T61 (16:10), T61p, and an X200 tablet. There's probably a few more in there that I can't remember or that I mis-remembered, but let's move on.

Has quality control relaxed a bit? Well... since when?

Since the 750cs? Sure -- that was made by IBM's Mexico production when laptops were still Shiny New Technology! and cost many thousands of dollars.

Since the 600X? Probably -- but a lot less then you'd expect, considering that the 600 cost several times what a T420 or X220 does today. (And let's not forget that all the nice fit and finish of the 600 series didn't do a bit of good to stop the batteries from dying early.)

Since the T4x series? Maybe, but I wouldn't place a wager on it. Lenovo was already involved in the production of the machines by then, and many of the later machines were actually made under Lenovo's watch in some of the same facilities with parts from some of the same suppliers that make today's ThinkPads.

Has it relaxed since the T60? Possibly, but I'd hesitate to say it's done so in a way that would affect the vast majority of users. Really anything I can say here would be speculation, because I can't think of any obvious signs of a major change in QC.

Has it changed since the T/X x00 era? Not as far as I can tell.

So I guess if you started in the early 90s, yes, you could make a case for a downward trend in QC. And I don't think you'd be wrong.

Oh no! We should all stop buying ThinkPads at once! They're Chinese junk!

Right? Well... maybe not. Let's review a couple things:

The 600 series was made by IBM themselves, not in China. Its batteries died prematurely.

The T20 series were made by IBM in Mexico (for some) and by IBM and/or subcontractors in China (for later models -- this has proven a little tricky to track down). Their memory slots failed.

The X30 series were made by (IIRC) Wistron under contract for IBM (for most of the run) and Lenovo (for the last part of the the run.) Their plastics fractured due to manufacturing defects/poor quality materials (depending on who you want to believe.)

The T40 series were made under contract for Lenovo (who handled production for IBM). Their GPUs failed at exceptionally high rates due to planar flex.

The T60 series was made by Foxconn under contract for Lenovo. With the exception of the NVIDIA GPU failures (which were industry-wide), there were no major widespread issues with the line.

Now we're seeing people (such as yourself) trying to stir up the sentiment that there's some recent change in events, and that QC under Lenovo is somehow a serious problem. In light of the above, I hope you'll forgive my severe lack of concern.

 

@suezb you knocked a chip out of your laptop??? :O I honestly don't see how that could happen lol. The finish on the magnesium is ridiculously durable.

I looked at my dad's T400 and compared to my X220, which has already suffered imo severe damage. Everything is a bit more rugged on the T400. I think it's not a quality control issue, but rather a design one. Lenovo wants to push Thinkpads into the consumer market, and consumers are clamoring for thin, lightweight, cheap, and so they responded by making the X220 ridiculously cheap, relatively thin, and ridiculously light. I still think it's a great buy, but I'm hearing all these stories of people throwing their laptops around and not having any problems, and I really have to say, I really wouldn't recommend it for the X220 at least. The screen assembly is so much thinner and less sturdy than previous years, this is not a laptop you can toss around and expect nothing to go wrong with.

A strong bump in the corner (not as bad as dropping it on the floor from the height of a desk) basically destroyed the left side of my palmrest, and broke my screen assembly in 2. The bottom piece of the chassis took a dent in the corner and developed a small crack. My Expresscard slot cover doesn't really work anymore. Being able to drop this on the floor and have nothing go wrong? Good luck with that. It's designed to protect your components, but it's not strong enough to stay in 1 piece if it takes serious punishment. I've said this in 5 posts or something, and it seems like no one really paid attention. I don't mean to be whiny, but I hope people don't look at these stories of people dropping their laptops on a hard floor and think that their X220 will survive fully intact, because it won't. You don't have to baby this the way you'd have to baby an acer or toshiba which would completely fall apart, but this isn't indestructible.

 

It's also worth noting that you're comparing an X series to a T series. You have to make compromises in a subnotebook, and strength is one of those.

The X series has *always* sacrificed durability for weight savings. The X20 series was nowhere near as strong as the T20 series, the X30 series was prone to cracking while the T30 series was not, and the X40 series had a rather fragile screen cover especially when compared to the T40 series. The X60 series lacked the base roll-cage of the T60 series, and the X61 had neither the lid nor base roll cage of the T61.

Basically, the X220 is in no way different than its predecessors in terms of durability -- provided you consider its predecessors to be the c. 3 lb X series ThinkPads rather than the 5-6+ lb T series.

 

I was so very sad and mad I had a very loud scream fest of profanity when i found it! I found it in the morning, and didn't remember dropping it the day before so I dunno what happened! I glare at that chip every time I look at it though lol

 

ThinkRob, that was quite the post there. And a history lesson too! You should be like a thinkpad salesman for all of the experience you've had. And it's nice to hear what you have to say. A lot of what I think people perceived as a weakening of the machine is just in their head. I read a post in one of the threads where someone had seen a man complaining about how crappy his new thinkpad was compared to his old one. Little did he know that, despite the IBM branding of his "old, classic thinkpad" it had been produced by Lenovo because as part of their acquisition of the line IBM agreed to let them keep the brand name on their laptops for a few years. (Personally I think it's ugly. Glad it's gone). As far as I know, many of the original thinkpad engineers migrated with the line itself and I very much expect the thinkpads to keep or even improve in quality.

 

Insomnia tends to lead to that sort of post. I'm glad you found it useful.

 

@ThinkRob my point wasn't so much as to agree that old thinkpads were better, as I don't have much direct comparison to draw on. My point is that people might be misled by these stories of laptops surviving completely brutal treatment, and that they should try to be careful with their laptops.

 

I have my T42 for almost 7 years now and still use it on a daily base as my main computer (beautiful Flexview screen makes it a joy to work with). Only the rubber finish has been rubbed off the edges caused by regularly sliding it into my bag, there are no other cosmetic damages. I still take it with me, not a daily base however. I recently had to buy a new adapter because the cable broke, and the USB ports operate on USB 1 speed, those are the only issues I've ever had. I have to add that I treat all my devices quite carefully.

 

Another very important point of the timeless ThinkPad design is the secret I will now share.

Since many look similar if you are careful and only have one out at a time your wife will never know you have more than one.

Keep it down if my wife hears you laughing I will be in big trouble ... wait ... I already am....

Brad