Thinkpad T400s vs Sony Z11/Z12

I've been a Thinkpad man for almost 10 years now, so much so that I'm like a Thinkpad Hermit. I've owned the T20, T23, T41, T43, T61, X300 and T400s. I wanted to switch up to the T410s but after so many years of tolerating the miserable screens on Thinkpads and also hearing that the T400s with discrete graphics implementation overheats very easily, I decided to give the Sony top-end thin and light Z11 a whirl.

Spec - Z11, Intel i5 560, 64x4 SSD in RAID 0 (that's how Sony does it, I worry about the reliability of the coniguration), DVD, extended battery, 4gb RAM

My laptop is used for both work and play. Image editing, Microsoft Office, e-mail, movies, music and games (Starcraft 2, Heroes of Newerth). I won't make a performance comparison, the spec on the Sony is considerably newer and better so obviously it performs like a modern computer should. I will just point out usability points in this post.

Keyboard -
T400s - standard Thinkpad feel, nice key travel and nice moulded keykaps.
Sony - this is my first time using a chiclet keyboard, I thought it would be comparable but it is not. The smooth, flat surfaces on a chiclet keyboard are not nice to use and affect accuracy. The keyboard layout is not as nice either. I much prefer having dedicated PgUp PgDn keys as well as Home and End.

Mouse -
This boils down to trackpoint vs touchpad, of which I much prefer trackpoint.

Port Selection -
Pretty similar for both but the Sony manages to fit an Expresscard interface in as well. Having onboard HDMI on the Sony is preferable to DisplayPort, too.

Sturdiness -
While the fit and finish of the Sony is very good, it still feels like a toy next to the T400s. Ever since I started using SSDs only in my X300, I've stopped using carrying cases or slip cases for my laptops. I was pretty confident about abusing my laptops but I'm not sure the Z11 can take the same sort of punishment.

Screen -
The Sony absolutely blows the T400s out of the water. In terms of colour, the Sony is outstanding. The blacks are much blacker, the colours in general are richer and the Sony strikes a surprisingly nice balance between gloss and matte. I still miss the extra inch that I had on the T400s.

Battery -
I used to use the main battery + an Ultrabay battery in my T400s which gave it about 6-7 hours of life and no increase in profile, minor increase in weight. The Sony extended battery, which is basically a double battery, does not extend backwards like you might expect with extended batteries, but downwards by about three quarters of an inch, thus tilting the laptop upwards. I really dislike this arrangement since it no longer fits in a portfolio nicely and surprisingly, makes it heavier than the T400s with second battery! Nonetheless, the battery life is good and it should be able to hit 8 hours with the extended battery.

Expandability -
God forbid I ever have to take the Sony apart to do upgrades, it seems like a real nightmare. I am working on getting the drive caddy though so I can switch the DVD drive for another hard drive. It would have been nice to slot a battery in there instead.

Power Adapter -
The Sony Power adapter is surprisingly large and ugly. I'm surprised they don't have a 60w one like Lenovo. There have been some reports of Sony users using a 40w one on their Z11, I don't know if that's a good idea though.

Conclusion -
I come off sounding a bit negative about the Sony. It really is a very good machine and I'm definitely giving up my T400s for it. However I'm going back to Thinkpads as soon as Lenovo/Thinkpad get their act together and fix:

1. Discrete graphics that blow up the computer ahem T410s
2. Screens that came from the 1990s

It's a crying shame that the T4x0s doesn't get the recognition it deserves and the X30x series got discontinued. Those were really good machines for power users on the go. If you are considering a jump from a T400s, T410s, X300, X301, I would recommend considering the Sony. Despite its flaws and quirks, the improved screen, solid port selection and decent 3D graphics performance are what really make it worth it.

 

X301 is still my favourite, Sony Z series is good for what it is (a ultraportable machine with a good design), but their warranty service sucks in Australia. And no you wouldn't want to take apart the Z series, it is a nightmare to put everything back.

Screen wise, yes Lenovo does need to get their act together on this front, so much so many people are still keeping their T4xp and their T60p so that they could still use the IPS LCD.

Thinkpad may have a bad LCD compared to the Sony, it beats it hands down with robustness, user upgradability and higher quality keyboards. You can get a X20x and upgrade the LCD to an AFFS LCD, so the LCD problem is manageable. But you can't upgrade the Z series to make it more robust, user serviceable or a higher quality keyboard.

 

I also hope that Lenovo realized that screen quality is very important to people, Maybe they could offer it for only a selected machine (i.e. T410s-Elite).

 

OP: I agree with you on most points about the Vaio Z vs T400s/ThinkPads in general.

However you are comparing machines which are meant for different purposes and often different crowds. They have different selling points.

The impressive thing about the Vaio Z is how they have jam packed the machine with very powerful specs and the design is quite appealing to many. I think the Vaio Z is currently the most powerful 13" notebook around and also the lightest one with those kind of specs. However the feel is not confidence inspiring.

A ThinkPad is still meant for business/professional users, regardless of how many students and gamers have chosen to pick one up lately. All the ThinkPad features you have described are characteristics which you will have a hard time finding in any other laptop - at least the full combination of these.

Below you'll find my take on why I have stuck with ThinkPads for many years:

Although ThinkPads will be flawed like any other thing in this world, I still consider it to be the best line of business notebooks out there today. A benchmark for many others.

What I appreciate about the ThinkPads in no particular order:
- Generally very good build quality
- Rugged and durable
- Spill proof keyboard
- Keyboard responsiveness and feel
- Internal protection frame
- Professional and attractive industrial type of design
- The general solid and confidence inspiring "feel"
- The feel and practicality of the Trackpoint and buttons
- The metal hinges in contrast to the black design
- ThinkLight (the ThinkPad feature I use the most frequently)
- The rubberized paint
- The upgradeability and service support, i.e. HMM or Lenovo Service training videos
- The fact that I always feel "at home" with ThinkPads regardless of model and size
- They generally run cooler and quieter than most if not all other laptops

The screen quality discussion can go on and on forever, but as long as the bulk of the business comes from business users who have no issues with the screen, chances are that Lenovo will not change them. Even if business users would be dissatisfied with their screens, keep in mind that most get their laptops from their employer and will most likely not complain about something they are given to be used as a working tool.

I am both a private and a business user and although I think having a vibrant screen is nice (like those found in some Vaios), I don't have any issue with the screens on the ThinkPads at all. I find them to be fine, bright and serving their purpose. I still need to use a privacy filter when working on planes, so I do not want better viewing angles either.

 

I have never owned a Thinkpad. but I have owned a Sony.

Sony is fragile and tends to break often, the service at Sony could not be worse.

Level one support dont know anything..
MY Sony was constantly being sent in

I would go with The Thinkpad, from the ones I have seen in the stores threy are a lot more solid..

Yes the Sony Graphics rock, but that is only one item to look at

 

I couldn't buy t410s because of its discrete graphics overheating problem. I didn't even care about the mediocre battery life or terrible screen but having a graphics card which didn't actually work properly was inexcusable.

They need to put better screens into their laptops, you are right. If the t or x series had a good one I wouldn't even think twice about any other laptop. I have x201, I've used t410, both screens (hell all thinkpad non-IPS ones) are horrific. This is a matter of opinion I guess because some people dont have a problem with it but to me everything just looks washed out.

 

It's pretty sad that Sony can cram an nvidia 330 part into a 13.1 inch chassis with no overheating issues and Thinkpad can't do the same with a weaker part and a large chassis. I guess what I was looking for is more like a W series machine but in ultraportable form. I consider the T4x0s to be borderline ultraportable because it is surprisingly light and the dimensions are reasonable. Just.

I really hope there will come a time when we see "premium" Thinkpads again. This Sony keyboard is really starting to bother me.

 

Canfrag, there are currently many premium ThinkPads, including your T400s. Unfortunately it seems you have been struck by issues with the graphics which I can definitely understand you find frustrating. All you can do is contact ThinkPad support and explore solutions offered.

The fact is that there have been bigger and smaller issues with other ThinkPads in the past (pre and post Lenovo acquisition). This is unfortunate, but no different compared to other laptop manufacturers, incl. Sony.

Overall I still find ThinkPads on average to be much above the average consumer type laptop and still better than most if not all business type laptops. I have listed my reasons in my first post. I just sold one of my ThinkPads to a person who in the past used different types of laptop brands for her hotel and internet cafe and the only type of laptops she now buys are ThinkPads as they in general can take much more abuse than other brands like HP, Acer, Asus and Dell and are better at being exposed to bad climate conditions like humidity, heat and even the occassional wet dripping hands from her hotel customers. The location? Philippines. Near the beach Obviously we are not talking Toughbook territory, but she still swears by ThinkPads as they have been very durable.

In any event, I hope things work out for you and that your confidence in ThinkPads is not completely lost

 

Having recently taken delivery of a T410s, I can't say I agree with the above statement. While this is a great machine, I think the very poor quality of screen should keep it from being considered a premium ThinkPad. As far as I can tell, the only decent quality screens currently available are in the W series. The screen on my T410s is a blemish on an otherwise great machine - hardly premium.

 

Can't go wrong with a Lenovo

 

I understand what you are saying and premium is obviously in the eye of the beholder. Since I am satisfied with the screens on all the ThinkPads I have had (none were IPS or AFFS) I find them to be premium as long as the rest of the usual ThinkPad traits are there.

If you flip it around and look at the Vaio Z, I am sure that for many it has all the traits of a so-called premium laptop. It comes with a nice screen, impressive performance specs and a stylish look (subjective of course). But I wouldn't trust its durability over i.e. my "old" X61s or its reliability as a business tool. Hence I find it to be a very nice multimedia/ultraportable show case, but it is not premium when it comes to my 'non-spec' preferences.

 

most of the T410s is used as a portable laptop for word processing and the like, so screen quality in relation to say a AFFS+ and IPS is not that important.

Whereas, W510 would require a premium LCD since they maybe used with photographic work, etc.

While, most of us wishes there are option for higher quality LCD, this is not going to happen for a while, so i guess right now just use what we got.

 

I have a feeling that in the next generation, when the supply of non-HD widescreen finally dries up, Lenovo will switch to HD LCD screens. While offering less vertical space, these screens will likely be newer and receive fewer complaints.

 

this has already happened for T510 and W510, so it is a matter of time for the T410/s and X201 to adopt the same fate.

 

Indeed, and the general opinion is that the T510 screen is good. There is a silver lining in the eventual switch to HD widescreens.

 

This is a very good point.

Bodes well for the next revision of T4x0s. Hopefully they will stand up and take notice of the discrete graphics issues with the current generation and fix it for the next. Sony keyboard hurts my wrists. It's almost as bad as typing on a touchscreen.

 

That is a great point, but it doesn't address the current offerings. I wonder what the next generation will bring. I'd love to see IPS-level quality screens back on ThinkPads.

Anyhow, I'm learning to live with the display of the T410s and I have no doubt that it is a better machine than the Sony.

 

Sony has a great screen and graphics but the build quality is terrible.
I never had a Thinkpad but ordering one htis week..

But build quality has to be better, the plastic components they use constantly crack and fall off

 

The ThinkPad build quality and keyboards are top notch. The screens used to be (or at least had options).

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the ThinkPad machines.

 

I used to own a high-end carbon-fiber Sony Z laptop, but will not again—too proprietary, insufficient driver/firmware updates and, overall, a faux-business-class machine (though it was well built and reliable). However, I completely concur—LENOVO CONSISTENTLY HAS DROPPED THE BALL WHEN IT COMES TO THE SCREEN. SHAME ON YOU LENOVO.