Thinkpad T420s Owners' Thread

Just for you mate,



I started around 49 degrees C, and after 20 mins of prime95, it raised to around 56 degrees C.

It doesn't test the GPU though.

 

Thank you for your excellent aid!

So temperatures seems to be under good control during 100% CPU load, that is a good sign. However, do anyone know a good stress-test that also utilizes the GPU and and perhaps some heavy south- and north bridge IO? (Except for Portal 2 of course )

Once again, thank you for your help, I appreciate it!

//TT

 

If you find a good and free GPU/IO stress test process or program, feel free to shout out here, I'll get it running for you on my machine.

 

Hi guys,

I'm new here! haha. And I stumbled upon this brilliant site, and read thru all the debate of T420 V T420s thread, and why there is an additional for T42s alone. Interesting stuff.

Anw, one question to ask. Is removing of the optical drive easy?

And, I see the different weight of the components, but I just can't really fathom the full picture. Can someone help by listing the weight of INDIVIDUAL components, like the battery, bay battery and optical drive?

Also, I want sth light and small, but 13.3" and above, long battery life. Does the T420s suffice for me? I see many versions of battery measurement. How abt just normal (visible) brightness and wifi and working on say word? How long can T420s last?

Thanks alot dudes, whoever can help me!

=)

 

Very easy, it takes about 1 second.

I'd say about 3.5 hours with just the main battery. You might wanna look into the ultrabay battery, it's well worth the price.

 

Here's some HWiNFO32 sensor output after running 3DMark06. Power Manager was set to maximum performance (the 3DM06 score is ~4700). I was also watching the power drain at the mains socket which peaked at 63W. I'm not sure where the rest of the power went.

It is easy except for operating the latch mechanism on the bottom of the computer is quite fiddly if you don't want to turn the computer over. The release mechanism on the Dell latitudes is much more convenient to use.

My T420s (Intel graphics + HDD as delivered:

With 6 cell battery and ODD = 1.83kg
With 6 cell battery without ODD = 1.70kg
With 6 cell battery and 3 cell bay battery = 1.94kg

On half brightness and working on Word you may get up to 5 hours on the main battery and 8 hours with main + bay battery provided you shut down your web browser and Bluetooth. That's what I reckon I can managed based on my power drain observations (7.5 to 8W with occasional spikes). Power Manager has predicted 10 hours but I'm not convinced so I bought an extra, previous generation, bay battery (easier to find at a reasonable price and works OK).

John

 

WOAHA! 90 C is quite hot! :O On the other hand, the i7-2620M seems to have a specified max temperature of 100 C, according to Intel Core i7 2620M Notebook Processor - Notebookcheck.net Tech so perhaps that is no problem. How do you experience the overall heat in the chassis? Is it running hot or just warm?

John, that was integrated graphics (without the GPU Optimus option), right?

And also: Thank you very much for your input! I do appreciate it a lot!

 

The chassis doesn't get exceptionally hot - the highest I've seen is 39C on the base near the CPU / fan. The data I posted above shows that the fan didn't reach its maximum (and noisy speed) of about 4600rpm on that occasion.

Yes. There's currently no Optimus option for UK purchasers, not that I would want it. One point that I've never quite managed to figure out is whether the maximum CPU performance would be increased if I used a dedicated GPU. The HWiNFO32 output shows a maximum package power of 38W (it's nominally 35W) but the individual CPU and GPU maximum powers are 25W and 15W so they didn't happen concurrently. (I'm not sure about the absolute accuracy of HWiNFO32's power data but they are fairly close.). Would the CPU power ceiling be increased if the GPU wasn't running? However, the overall power may not be much different. Notebookcheck thinks that the 4200M is a derivative of the 520M which is shown as a 17W part.

And if you need any more info let me know.

John

 

Thanks Manu and John!

Boy, am I glad I found this forum! =)

Hmm, 8 hours with bay battery requiring me to off my WIFI, sounds pretty impressive enough. 1.9kg sounds good enough too. Any of you guys got any idea any other alternatives may be better?

 

I can't think of anything else that is better, otherwise I would have bought it. I wanted the lightest 14" machine that offered me 900 vertical pixels. You may need to do a bit of tweaking to get the battery run time you want, but Lenovo's Power Manager helps and now that I've got my display tuned it is quite acceptable.

John

 

If you want something lighter, don't mind a smaller screen (but with a high quality IPS screen option), don't need Optimus, then I think the X220 is a better bet.

 

Thank you for that input.

If I've understood things correctly, the integrated graphics is just about a display interface for the CPU. All graphics rendering are done in software, in the CPU. That would mean that the graphics calculation are just as any other calculations within the CPU. In other words: Wether you load the CPU with graphics calculations or whatever calculations, does not matter for the power consumption.

But one thing is for sure. If you add a GPU to the system, it will allow the system to consume more power. However, if a GPU would be more power efficient than the integrated graphics (CPU) in terms of graphics rendering, I am not sure. It could be very much possible. But since adding a GPU would increase the overall potential computing power, a real life usage scenario (such as gaming) could potentially consume more power overall. More computations, more power.

So, yes, adding a GPU would increase the overall CPU performance. In terms of offloading it from graphics operations or any other data-parallel algorithms (such as audio/video/image processing) to run in the GPU instead. It's just like adding an additional processing unit, but optimized for data-parallel tasks.

So an optimized software could utilize the CPU for serial executing tasks and the GPU for parallel executing tasks. Since the CPU and the GPU are optimized for their corresponding types of tasks, this may result in a better utilization of the hardware (job done faster, less power consumed).

Oh btw, when I say GPU, I never mean the integrated graphics.

Hope my rambling helps.

Thanx! Good to know.

//TT

 

The Sandy Bridge integrated GPU is in the same piece of silicon as the CPU and the memory controller. See here for a schematic layout. It is this close integration that has boosted the performance of the Intel graphics. It also means that the power / performance for CPU, Intel GPU and memory controller have to be managed within the package power ceiling.

John

 

I knew that all those components are housed within the same SoC. But I did not know that we're talking about a full-fledged GPU! This calls for further investigation!

I have come to wonder how much performance gain that differs from the Intel GPU and the Nvidia GPU.. Anyone have experience about this? I once saw some specs on the NVS 4200M mentioning 7.1 HDMI output as well (docking station in the case of T420s).

Thanx!

//TT

 

Arrandale has the GPU and memory controller within the CPU package. One of Sandy Bridge's big impovements is to put them on the same silicon (perhaps the other big improvement is better power management).

Notebookcheck has good summaries of the Intel and Nvidia GPUs. For reasons that aren't completely clear to me, my Intel GPU performs better in the 3D benchmarks than the range given by notebookcheck. Perhaps it is the GPU overclocking: HWiNFO32 showed a maximum GPU clock speed of 1300MHz (which is the maximum GPU turbo speed indicated by Intel) and perhaps it sustains that speed for significant periods.

I have to assume that the Nvidia GPU has some extra tricks up its sleeve but the Intel GPU does all I want and more.

John

 

Hey John, I think intel has been doing a lot of optimizations to pull even more power out of the 3000.

 

I fired up the Sims 3 (lowest gfx setting) and played for an hour or so,



The core temp varied from 65 to 69 degrees celsius, and the game was very much playable.

 

Hi guys,
I am considering a hard drive back up for t420s and wondering which one is better between external HD with usb 3.0 and HDD Bay with WD 7200 rpm. Which of the two is faster considering cost is about the same? USB drive is more flexible to use with desktop though.

 

^^^ Yes, the USB-powered external HDD is definitely more flexible as a back-up device. I have had no concerns regarding speed, even with USB 2.0.

 

A drive in the Ultrabay hard drive adapter will have better bandwidth and will be faster, but external enclosure is much more flexible for using with other machines.

 

Thanks John for starting this thread and all the invaluable information and advices given here. I have just ordered my T420S with the following configuration:

2.5GHz, 3MB L3, 1333MHz DDR3
Windows 7 Home Premium 64
14.0 HD+ (1600 x 900) LED
Intel HD Graphics 3000
4 GB DDR3 - 1333MHz (1 DIMM)
UltraNav with TrackPoint & touchpad plus Fingerprint reader
720p HD Camera
320 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
DVD Recordable
Express Card Slot & 4 in 1 Card Reader
6 cell Li-Ion Battery
Bluetooth 3.0
Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (3x3 AGN)
Mini Dock Series 3
Easy Reach Monitor Stand

Scheduled shipment is on 6/6. This will be the laptop for my son who is attending college this August. Total cost of $1300 looks reasonable to me, even though I guess additional promotional discount could be available during the Memorial Day holiday. Items on my shopping list to complete the setup are:

1. 4GB RAM
2. Intel 320 160GB SSD to replace the stock 320GB HD. Knowing how my son handle his stuff, I feel more comfortable having no mechanical HD in the laptop.
3. An USB enclosure for the 320GB HD for external storage in dorm.
4. A displayport to HDMI cable for connecting up to an existing 24" HP monitor which has only HDMI and no DVI input.
5. Wireless keyboard and mouse, and maybe a 14" sleeve
6. A compact black and white or color laser printer

I am now reading all the threads here for a clean install of Windows 7 in the SSD as well as the pros & cons on the followings:
a. Intel 320 vs 510 - inclining towards 320
b. BIOS vs EFI installation - inclining towards BIOS
c. RamDisk or not - inclining towards no

Any advice would be welcomed .. thanks again.

 

Hi mate, if you're looking for a DP to HDMI converter, do check out the following 2 threads to make sure you get one that works with HD3000.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo-ibm/578530-x220-video-audio-out-through-displayport.html

http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo-ibm/577973-t420-displayport-audio-problems.html

Also, besides the Intel 320, there are a number of other drives that you may consider, like the crucial M4, and the Vertex 3 (!), as reported by numerous others in this thread.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo-ibm/572243-list-drives-compatible-x220-35.html

 

Thanks finkfad for your advices. The threads are indeed helpful. I never thought displayport to HDMI could be that tricky. It is really good to be able to learn from other's experience.

For harddisk, reliablity is my top concern over performance or price. Correct me if I am wrong, it just seems to me that Intel 320 SSD could be the best bet in term of reliability.

 

I remember some hardware site placing the intel SSDs as the most reliable, so if thats your thing, I say go for it. Between SSDs, you won't get tremendous performance differences as compared to between HDDs and SSDs, so the 320 should suit your need just fine.

 

I measured a speed of up to about 180MB/s for my Intel 320 SSD using USB 3.0 (using this - the cable and plug can be used independently of the enclosure). I was pleasantly suprised by this. It's well above the ~100MB/s peak transfer speed of the current 7200 rpm 2.5" HDDs. One drawback of USB 3.0 is the cables are quite thick and heavy - about the same as a 3 core mains cable. I'm looking for a sensibly priced 0.3m USB 3.0 cable to replace the 1m cable that came with my enclosure.

I have also encountered some data transfer hangups while using an Ultrabay caddy. It's possible that this is related to using an older caddy (it says 1.5Gb/s on the label) or may be related to one SSD copying to another but using USB 3.0 resulted in no problems.

John

 

I just ordered the T420 and was wondering how long it'll take for it to ship? My estimated shipping date is 6/3.

I know last month it was like a 3 week wait but is there any reason why it would take that long to ship? Any chance I can get it next week?

I'm without a laptop right now and its killing me.

 

I think that is because Lenovo don't really have the thinkpads in stock that can ship out right against an order received. Each thinkpad is being assembled to order based on the specific configurations in China. And, to minimize their stocks, Lenovo probably are not carrying every part needed either. Some of the parts could also be coming from their suppliers through their supply chain management system. So, it will take a while before they got all the parts, have the thinkpad assembled, tested and packed for shipment out from China.

 

Thanks John again for the insight. Considering USB 3.0 is one of the key feature of T420S, it make perfect sense to use a USB 3.0 enclosure for the harddisk to maximize the transfer speed. My only concern is that as the Mini Dock Series 3 is having only USB 2 ports and that the only USB 3.0 port of the T420S is at the back, would it means the only way to connect up an external harddisk through USB 3.0 would be to undock it? If so, that would not be my preferred solution.

 

Does anyone know if the t420 has a USB 3.0 port?

 

T420 should have no USB 3.0 port

 

Mine arrived much sooner than they estimated it would ship -- Ordered the 4th, shipped the 10th, arrived the 13th. The original estimate had it complete six days or so from now.

I've been more and more content with it -- I've gotten used to the screen. Kicking myself over not researching more on the intel Sandy Bridge graphics and Linux, though; in, oh, six months or so, things will be pretty nice, but right now... ow. I'd have gone with Nvidia if I had thought to check if there were still issues with Sandy Bridge.

I still think my X301 was the perfect balance of size and performance, but the T420s is very close, and the extra pixels are appreciated.

 

The T420s is in a different position when docked on the Series III dock. All of the ports including the USB 3.0 port can be access and used.

 

Are you guys sure that the T420 doesnt have a usb 3.0??

I've read on comments from other review sites and a lot of people say that the T420 has only 1 usb 3.0 while the T420s has 2?

Update: Nevermind I see that it only has usb 2.0, oh well its still not going to sway me away from this model!

 

T420s has USB 3.0
It's the blue one in the back and I can confirm it by looking over device manager in windows 7.

 

Good! I shall go ahead to get an USB 3.0 external case then. Thanks!

 

I got a USB 3.0 external harddisk, I can further confirm that the USB 3.0 port in T420s is really fast. If one copies a single file, the average speed is about 50-60m/s. So 1 G bytes file takes about only 20 seconds. It is almost 2-3 times faster than USB 2.0 port.

 

HDTune measured about 180MB/s when testing an Intel 320SSD connected to to my T420s' USB 3.0. That's not quite as fast as eSATA but very acceptable.

My annoyance with the USB 3.0 is that it is on the back of the computer and very difficult to see which one it is. There looks to be space on the T420s for at least one more USB port.

John

 

I agree 3x USB can be a problem sometimes, 4x would be perfect. And I hate those in the back.

 

I like to have the two usb ports in the back. I have a usb hub connected to one of those ports. I use the usb hub to connect my printer/scanner and wireless mouse receptor. Having the hub in the back means more space in my desk. Things look tidy this way.

The usb located in the left-hand side is used to temporary stuff, like storage devices.

So... I'm happy with the position of the usb ports.

I'm also happy that the wireless switch is not near any port. I hated the position in my X200. I used to switch it off by mistake when disconnecting things from the usb port on the left-hand side.

 

By the way: I'm still waiting for my Intel 320 160 Gb SSD. Customs and mail are quite slow these days...

The T420s is working quite well and it's fast. The 320Gb 7.2K rpm HDD is snappy. I'm beginning to wonder if I should really install the lower storage SDD.

I'm also wondering if I really need to do a clean install. It's too much work for something that is working perfectly well. I heard about "alignment" issues with SSD imaging. Should I be concerned?

 

If you do a clean install with windows 7 on your SSD, it will align automatically.

Anyway, my personal opinion is that your 320 will still be much much faster than your 7.2k rpm hdd. I personally cold open (program not loaded since boot, no quick launch programs in background) office 2010 files in less 2 seconds, and photoshop CS5.1 less than 14 seconds with my crucial M4. Needless to say, I don't think any 7.2k rpm that I use can come close to that.

 

Thank you for asking this question! i thought i was going crazy until i found yoru question and the persons reply. thank you both!

 

i do have! a lot of! same prob like on my older T400. no solution yet. it seems to be a prob with the nvidia driver (latency-prob)

 

Hi all,

Anyone with experience trying to install the mSATA 80gb? I changed the BIOS boot option to UEFI Only, popped it into the RAM/PCIe slot at the bottom of the laptop, removed the current HD, and restarted the computer.

However, instead of loading up Windows 7 and beginning the installation, it took me to a 'Boot Menu'. I've checked to make sure it's booting from the CD/DVD drive and it doesn't seem to work. I then tried replacing the original HD into the computer and it booted fine, and began to run the Windows 7 install process. Any ideas as to how to fix this?

 

What happens when the BIOS is set to Legacy ?

 

When set to Legacy mode, it boots and works. Any idea what this means?

 

Sounds like an incompatibility with the mSATA drive and mini PCIE connection. I would probably call that one into Lenovo Support and get them to confirm it is supported or not.

 

hi John Ratsey, can you tell me how much noise does the t420s make, when you turn it off, do you hear a notable difference?
thanks

 

The lowest default fan speed (~1800 rprm) is inaudible. However, a short burst of CPU activity is enough to switch the fan to a faster and very audible ~4,000 rpm. Once the fan is at that speed the temperature needs to drop quite low for get the speed to drop again. I am using Thinkpad Fan Control set to activate the faster fan speed at 70C and drop to the lower speed at 60C.

Lenovo need to do more work on the default fan rules. The faster fan speed seems to have limited cooling benefit when the CPU is a only 60C. I suspect there is an imbalance between the fan's ability to dispose of the heat and the heat pipe's ability to conduct heat when there is only a small differential temperature. They probably also need to include at least one and probably two intermediate fan speeds.

John

 

I had the same problem on my x220. I just gave up and installed through legacy. My slower 40gb intel 310 still boots in ~15 seconds, with the drive 75% full of programs and files. I don't really see a big advantage in UEFI vs BIOS unless you're planning to get a 3TB+ drive anytime soon.