Thinkpad T510 vs. W510

Has there been much speculation over the specs of the upcoming W510 and T510? I'm looking for a 15" workstation to do Photoshop work with in the next few months. Discreet graphics and a quality screen are going to be very important. The current T500 and W500 are pretty close to what I'm looking for, but with January around the corner, I able to wait if the refreshes are going to be significantly better...

Advantages of the W line or T line over the other?
What's going to be new/upgraded?
Thoughts on when these models are gonna be released?

Thanks,
Brett

 

One generation to the next are usually not significant. I'd say if you can find a good deal on one new, buy. The GPU and the WUXGA screen are the main benefits of the W series. The WSXGA+ if you get the LG is above average I would say, but the trend in all laptop sales is price is the preponderant factor for most people. They don't care about screen quality enough to pay for it. There are some who care about screen quality, but we're in the minority.

 

The T usually has consumer GPU, while W has workstation GPU. It will be updated in Q1 2010 according to the Lenovo roadmap. Does Photoshop even require a workstion card? Same as all other notebooks in Q1 2010, notebooks will have the new dual core i5/i7s and an updated GPU (most likely HD 4650/workstation variant for the T/W510 series)

 

is W510 even gonna happen? I didnt see it on the roadmaps

 

If anyone notices the X302 isn't on the road-map either. From what I'm told, they will be updated later along in 2010 (Feb, or March probably).

 

On this specific go-round there is a good chance of seeing a different screen size and screen quality from Lenovo, so I would't be so quick to dismiss the generation change.

I myself am holding out until january. The current generation has screens bad enough that there is nothing to lose by waiting. Worst come to worst if the screens arent better on 510 series, then I can pick up a 500 for dirt cheap in the outlet at that point anyway. Just no downside to waiting.

 

i'm guessing all the next gen thinkpads would have 16:9 after watching engadget's video on a presentation by someone (sorry, don't remember what, but he's in charge of designing thinkpads) from lenovo japan. they probably would get core i5/i7 as well.

both these (if true) are most definitely significant.

 

I wouldn't think from a performance perspective the i7s will be markedly better than what's available right now.

If they do indeed go 16:9, that would be a pretty significant because it means no more WSXGA+. You're left with WXGA++(1600x900), another decrease in vertical resolution, or WUXGA(1920x1080), which has a pixels per inch over 140. That's higher than my 15" UXGA, which means text will be small and harder to read. I'd like to think they're going to offer something better, but if history is a guide, I think it's unlikely. I'd say if you want a WSXGA+ screen now's the time to buy with all the coupons. Pray for the LG.

 

15.4" WUXGA (1920X1200) is 147 PPI. 15.4" 1920x1080 is 143 PPI.

Size of text is defined by software and its settings in relation to hardware. Properly setup software-wise, so the fonts are the size wished for, the higher the PPI the easier on the eyes, not harder. Myths based on a lack of understanding of how PC's operate do not become true by repetition/rumour. The new resolution will not be quite as easy on the eyes as 15.4" WUXGA, but better than 15" UXGA; in each case, as always, dependent on software settings.

If you are at present reading text comfortably on a 15" UXGA (133 PPP - the same as 17" WUXGA), and you know how to set the software, then you will be quite happy with 15.4" 1920x1080. If 15" UXGA is at present hard on the eyes (i.e poor software settings), then any increase of PPI will also be unpleasant.

 

It's been my experience that most people stick with the default, which means a PPI of 143 or 147 will make for very small text.

 

Not specifically workstation over consumer, but definitely something moderately powerful. And since I'm looking for something very well built, reliable and proven, a workstation seems to be the best choice. I definitely don't need the bells and whistles plus bloatware/bloatfeatures of most consumer laptops...

Brett

 

The T500 and W500 share almost exactly the same chassis and hardware other than the graphics adapter. The T certainly any more consumer than the W.

With regard to text size, it you can easily change the default size, but I find even when you do, many applications haven't been designed to accommodate the larger size which causes many annoying alignment issues.

 

Agreed. The default of course is not setup for HD screens, and is quite inappropriate. I think Lenovo and others who provide HD screens should send them out with better settings to at least give the average user a chance. Sending them out with tiny fonts etc is self-defeating - very poor PR for Lenovo. It wouldn't be that hard to image a properly setup HD-system - though, given primitive stage of HD-friendly OS and program development, there is still much to do by the end user, depending on which programs are subsequently installed and used...

Re above post - quite correct too! - some programs just will never look good in HD, whatever the font size - one just has to or try to avoid them....I am lucky i don't use any of them!

 

You probably meant to have an "isn't" in between "certainly any". I know the W isn't any more workstation-y than the T, which is why I've narrowed it down to the T line, the W line and the Dell M4400.

Brett

 

a 15-ish inch 16:9 would actually be 15.6", not 15.4"

 

i recently moved from 1900x1200 to 1600x1200 with a t42p i got off ebay. this is so far the best resolution for me, since i like to have vertical space for programming and the ppi causes less eye strain for me.

 

I would totally wait. my biggest complaint about my T500 is the screen - it's terrible. backlight bleed or blacks are all really bad...

 

Photoshop isn't even GPU driven. It doesn't matter.

 

Not sure what screen you have, but my T500's WSXGA+ LG panel has no backlight bleed that I can notice even on my black screensaver, and the blacks seem to be very nice.

The main advantages of the M4400 over the T500, in my opinion, are the stronger graphics options and better screen options. For your purposes, I would think the first point is rather moot, since Photoshop does not even need a discrete graphics card - so the M4400's graphics card would just lower battery life. The M4400 does have some very nice screen options, though, that make it quite attractive. That said, it is more expensive than the T500 as well.

 

well obviously you're not using cs4.

it's not gpu driven, but it IS gpu accelerated

 

Bingo. RAM and a fast HD are more important, but a decent GPU definitely helps with rendering large files. Plus this isn't solely for Photoshop. I do some gaming, so between that, aero, and work... and the hope that this will continue to be useful into the future, I can definitely justify needing a decent gpu...

Brett

 

you don't need anything more than an integrated gpu for aero

 

Right, for aero alone, but when you're doing a whole lot more on top (i.e. streaming HD video, playing Blu-rays or anything else) on a large screen or external monitor/tv, you'll definitely have stuttering if it works at all. I have no doubt aero would run with integrated graphics.

Brett

 

I guess that sounds about right, but are there actually really rumours that point to ATI rather than NVIDIA as discrete GPUs for this round of Thinkpad updates?

 

well, apart from the t6x series thinkpads have always used ati's. the reason the t6x used nvidia was because ati had severe delays in delivering their gpu's.

so it's probably a safer bet that the next gen t's use ati

 

Coincidentally, the one time Lenovo did go with NVIDIA, they got saddled with the G84M/G86M.

 

I would hope the new CPUs going in would be the quad core variants for the t5XX/w5XX and larger. If they must follow the industry and use the terrible 16:9 ratio I hope the 15.6 and larger have dedicated numpads as there will be plenty of space to do so.

 

There are definitely advantages to getting discrete graphics other than photoshop cs4 now, many mainstream apps are getting gpu accelerated too--take a look at flash 10.1 among other things.

As for the ATI vs Nvidia, the w700 is another current system with an quadro card. And at the time, besides the T61, the R61 had an Nvidia option as well. If you are thinking worstation graphics, Nvidia's Quadro drivers are ahead of ATI's FirePro in terms of optimization, so I would actually hope they dropped ATI next round...

 

well thats just bad luck

well t61 and r61 is from the same era, so

and flash 10.1 makes flash even on x4500mhd faster

 

The T/W510 will have switchable graphics anyways, so you get the best of both worlds.

 

According to http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3678 the x4500 isnt working so well now

 

well there are improvements too! the average cpu usage is lower (slightly)

i mean, it's still a beta release, so bugs are expected.

 

W701 will use FX2800M & FX3800M which are quite similar as pervious one. Forget Nvidia...
Hope W510 can use the card like Firepro M7740

 

and I'm here hoping the W701 will use a FirePro instead. The current ATI lines up are solid and better than Nvidia in many ways.

 

Please elaborate, this hasn't been my experience in the workstation graphics segment and from what i've read.

 

Too bad the current ATI V5700 in the W500 had some a bad rep.

 

Since the HD 5000 series is out and the mobility version is on the way, ATI's professional lines will also get an update.
Nvidia? Not so much exciting this time.
and I'm incline to believe that the FX3800 is just a higher clock version of the current FX3700.

 

If they keep the same form factor as the w500 while changing the cpu to a mobile core i7, any performance increase on the hardware side is going to be incremental anyway due to the inability of the form factor to displace more heat. All the while, Nvidia still has better optimized workstation drivers which is just as important as the hardware... On the W700 though I suppose it could make a difference, the M7740 looks pretty good... hopefully they'll have a good midrange offering to compliment it.

 

The W500 will most likely use the dual core i7s and be fairly efficient with power consumption.

 

If even the consumer range HP Pavilion can put a core i7 quad in, you think Lenovo will just offer a lower dual core on their premium notebook line?
And again, keeping the same form factor thing is not what everyone expecting. Every time there is a change in platform there is a change in internal design.

 

ati had nice video cards for laptops...but ati sucks if you are going to run linux on your lappy

 

Gents and Ladies,
would really appreciate some advice.

Due to a local institution offer, I can get a W510 at the same price as a T510 on the open market (actually cheaper, because it comes bundled with CS5 and MS Office).

That's a no-brainer, except that I'm looking for a Thinkpad with a decent battery life. I'm also not keen to carry around a 135W brick for the W510.

I was looking to spec my T510 with only integrated graphics card and a 540 as compared to the W510's 720 and workstation graphics, which would impact the batt life.

Does anyone have experience on the battery life of the two laptops (9 - cell)? I've read many differing accounts. How much can I throttle the W510's consumption?

Thanks for any thoughts.

I currently have a 3 year old T60 (9 cell) which is serving well, but heading back to school, so would like a new laptop to take me through it.

 

W510 for the same price as the T510? whoa i would get that.

Given that you got the T60, just keep that and use it as portable machine, if you need more processing power just use the W510.

 

True, but I don't want to synchronise stuff over two computers, so was going to use the T60 as a backup in case stuff crashes. The W510 comes with CS5 as well, which is a really expensive package, except that I don't really use graphics. One of those cases of great deals, but just not right for me. But feels stupid paying more for a less powered system.

Is there any way to squeeze more life out of the W510?

 

We did a 'Head to Head' review comparing the ThinkPad T510 versus the ThinkPad W510 because we get a lot of people asking the same question. Which 15" ThinkPad should I buy? T510 or W510. It makes interesting reading if your comparing the two for a prospective purchase

http://www./thinkpad-head-to-head-the-thinkpad-t510-vs-thinkpad-w510.htm

Ian Orford - Editor, ThinkPadToday