Thinkpad T61 Deadly Slow PCMCIA - eSATA Problem

Hi everyone,

I have just bought a Thinkpad T61 7665 series with 1 Card Reader and 1 PCMCIA slot.

I've been using an Express Card to eSATA adapter for long with my previous T60 with blazing fast speed (> 70MB / s comparing with only 20MB/s USB 2.0) for data backup without any problem.

Since this new Thinkpad T61 does not have an Express Card slot, I have to buy a PCMCIA to eSATA adapter card instead, and now I face this annoying problem: The transfer speed is deadly slow, and limited to only 10MB/s. With this same card, I plug into the Dell Latitude D630's PCMCIA slot and the speed is just as expected (at least 60MB/s). That means the problem comes from the Thinkpad T61 itself.

I tried on both Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista (with and without SP1) an no luck for me. For both OS, the same driver for the PCMCIA slot is used, and it's provided by default from MS, which is Ricoh R/RL/5C476(II) or Compatible Cardbus Controller. Unfortunately there's no such similar PCMCIA driver provided by Lenovo themself for the T61 / T61p series on this page

I've been hopelessly googling around for a few continuously, and this seems to be a common issue with Thinkpad users, such as this thread from the official Lenovo forums. Until now, no one has an answer for this problem. Now all my external HDD with eSATA support are just lying on the floor doing nothing. Backing up huge data amount with USB2.0 is extremely slow, and the same task can be done 3 times faster with eSATA.

Anyone here has a solution please help!

 

Turns out that the problem is the same with every Thinkpad T61 that has PCMCIA slot. You will only realize it only when you actually use it. Carl, a hardware engineer has just put up this excellent article named "Lenovo Thinkpad T61 Slow PCMCIA Performance" covering the whole issue with detailed benchmark to prove the truth. Please do take a look:

http://2xod.com/articles/Lenovo T61 Slow PCMCIA/

I borrow his benchmark graph and put here for easy understanding:

 

Hey,

I want to buy an esata drive that uses my PCMCIA CARD SLOT..

According to your post, there is no problem in that right?

I wish i did not have to use an external power source for the esata drive.thats the only issue for me right now.What do you think?

 

As I mentioned, this issue is the same with every single Thinkpad T61(p) I've ever experimented. The speed is simply unusable and we will soon throw away the PCMCIA to eSATA adapter. If yours happens to be an exception, please do let us know.

 

good information. i was going to pickup a card for my R61 expresscard slot. i wonder if this problem applies with my model. jobin, not to worry, sata is scheduled to have power through the cable sometime in the near future (or so as they would have everyone believe)

 

After seeing this, I asked my co-worker who has a 14" T61 to benchmark my external Seagate 500 GB drive with my PCMCIA Firewire 400 card. The average is around 40 MB/s. I tried the same test on both my T60's 15.4" and 15" and those too were at about 40 MB/s. I have the Texas Instruments PCMCIA adapter and he has the Ricoh controller.

I don't believe that all T61's have dead slow PCMCIA throughput.

Scott

 

I created that write-up, and I hope to get to the bottom of this issue.

It could definitely be a flaw in the pcmcia to sata adapter used in the testing.

I will be obtaining 2 different cardbus to esata adapters based on 2 different chipsets to compare these results with.

 

I have found some more information regarding this issue. Unfortunately I see no solution yet, but more information is always good. I added information for sata to cardbus devices that use different controllers, and I found an 8 year old laptop that rivals the cardbus performance of the T61, which is quite ironic.

Now it is clear that the sata cardbus device is not responsible for the poor performance because I have verified that two other controllers work great in other notebooks. This includes the Silicon Image 3112 and Initio INIC-1620TA2 controllers.

http://2xod.com/articles/Lenovo%20T61%20Slow%20PCMCIA/

 

I've created a new page that compares various cardbus controllers and esata cards, hopefully this will be of some help to this issue:

eSATA Performance of Various Cardbus Controllers

 

That is a really interesting write-up! If Lenovo does not get its act together after seeing your page, they never will. It is not only the Cardbus interface that is slow on Thinkpads, the built in SD-card reader of the X6x-models is very poor. I get twice the read and write speed using a generic USB SD-card reader than using the internal card reader.

However, I digress .... My question in regards to your articles concerned the results when using the express card adapter. It was my impression that a real express card slot exposes two interfaces to an express card. The express card can either connect to the system over PCI-Express or over USB. However, it was also my impression that the combo PCMCIA/Express Card slots that exist on Thinkpads only offer the USB interface when using express cards. However, the results from your benchmarks would indicate that the express card is connecting via PCI-Express since you get transfer speeds that are higher than maximum USB transfer speeds.

Do you know if the Thinkpads in fact do offer the PCI-Express interface to express cards?


Ouups .. just found out that there are different models of the T61. Some of them actually have a real express card slot, while others substitute the express card slot (thus only leaving the PCMCIA slot) for a multi card reader.

 

You are asking about expresscard slot. The OP is talking about the standard PCMCIA slot.

I have an expresscard slot on my T61. I use a SIIG eSATA II ExpressCard adapter for an external hard drive as well as an external DVD burner with great performance. I also have a KPC680 expresscard that works really well.

I haven't ever used the PCMCIA slot.

 

It is important to note that the Ricoh chip used is a multi-function asic. It provides the Cardbus and SD card interfaces. I was not aware that the SD card slot is extremely poor.

I'm glad you found that information out yourself!

 

stallen,
thanks for the info. ill have to check that adapter out.

 

The performance of the integrated SD card reader is pathetic. I get sustained read/write speeds of approx 3 MB/sec. When I use a no-name USB SD-Card reader, I almost get 7 MB/sec in sustained write/read !?! WTF!!!

 

Just curious, what PCMCIA to eSATA card did you get? I've got a D630 and looking to get a PCMCIA to eSATA card for it.

 

Hello, I got the Silicon Image Sil3112 controller with maxtor 300gb and ,metal gear box sata+usb I saw the post and did the test rightaway 14mb/ps with the SATA and 27mb/ps avarage with the USB what a suprice! I'm about to buy new external hdd with 2 drives in RAID 0 and I was about to use the PCMCIA but I guess I'll have to get express card ...any suggestions for brand or model?!
Thanks.

 

I have exactly the same problem with X60
lenovo claims to work on this:
http://forums.lenovo.com/lnv/board/...&thread.id=1365&view=by_date_ascending&page=4
let's hope they come up with a solution, it's only been what 2 years?

 

It looks like lenovo has fixed this problem with a bios update.

My T61 now performs about 5 times better on the PCMCIA / Cardbus slot:
------------------------
seagate 160gb sata
BIOS 2.12

HD Tune: ST3160815AS Benchmark

Transfer Rate Minimum : 10.9 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Maximum : 11.0 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Average : 11.0 MB/sec
Access Time : 15.4 ms
Burst Rate : 10.6 MB/sec
CPU Usage : 1.6%
------------------------

After the update:

------------------------
seagate 160gb sata
BIOS 2.19

HD Tune: ST3160815AS Benchmark

Transfer Rate Minimum : 35.4 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Maximum : 59.8 MB/sec
Transfer Rate Average : 54.9 MB/sec
Access Time : 15.3 ms
Burst Rate : 53.5 MB/sec
CPU Usage : 4.3%
------------------------

The BIOS update I installed can be found here:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-67988

Their changelog specifically states that they fixed this issue:
--------------
Version 7LETB9WW (2.19-1.08)

(New) Support for ICH8 revision B2.
(New) Support for Intel AMT Management Engine Region Firmware Update Utility version 2.6.4.1034 (or higher).
(Fix) The error, "0191 System Security-Invalid Remote Change requested." may occur at the power-on.
(Fix) Some CardBus and IEEE 1394 devices may slow down the performance.
--------------

 

Thanks for all this informations.
But I am still a bit confused.
Shall I choose a new t61 with the PC Card Slot & Express Card Slot or with the PC Card Slot & Smart Card Slot.
The second option is a bit more expansive, but after reading this, it seems that the first one is a better option.

Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks!

 

That is great news. It seems that your webpage actually made them solve the problem. However, the sub-par performance due to the RICOH controller is prevalent in many more models (e.g. x60/x61) and Lenovo has not issued BIOS fixes for them :-(

 

Hello..

This is my first posting. Please help me out on this issue.

I've updated the bios to 2.19-1.08 version as required, but I'm still have poor speed in the cardbus system. I tested the cardbus (ACRyan eSATA Cardbus) and driver with another system running Vista and they are fast but not on the T61p.

With the HD Tune, the external HD on the eSATA cardbus is only about 10MB/s or lower. I shipped the unit back to Lenovo and they replaced the motherboard but it's still slow.

I must have done something wrong and any help would be appreciate.

Thank you.

 

Have you tried testing out the card/drive on another laptop?

 

Hello..

Yes, it has been tested on a Dell laptop and it works fine.. As I mentioned, I'm using the same driver & card on the same OS (Vista).

I know for certain that the card/HD is OK.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

 

Hello..
It looks like the new bios (2.19) fixes the problem for pcmcia cardbus for the non-p append of the T-Series Thinkpad. I have the T61p and it's still slow. I google around and it appears I'm not the only one.

I hope Lenovo is looking into a solution.
It's like a Toyota Yaris running faster than a Corvette!!.

Thank you.