Thinkpad Users/ Mac Users

Maybe I am crazy, but the more I read on this forum, the more I realize that a lot of users that have Thinkpads used to be Mac users or vice versa .... is that something that I am just noticing or is that a unofficial stat that I just realized?

I came over from the Macbook Pro (which is still running) .... and I still use it once in a while to surf the web (very rarely which is a shame, and I should probably just sell it while is still has a resale value)

 

I think we just attract each other - we're equally fierce in our loyalties, unlike most other brands, so curiosity gets us looking to the other side. You're also talking about the only two brands with hefty innovation that has paid off - Mac with the unibody, and the magsafe connector, Thinkpads with the rollcage chassis and amazing keyboards. Users who look for that level of innovation tend to have a lot in common.

I will say this, the only other portable system I've ever been able to tolerate was a MacBook Pro. Mine was from the last generation before they switched to the Unibody, 15 inch, either 2008/2007 vintage. It was my work issue computer for about a year, and I liked it enough that I've been trawling eBay looking for one as a tinkerers box. Unfortunately, all the examples I see are either very, very broken, or very, very expensive - like "I'm better off buying a new MacBook Air" level expensive.

 

Ironically, we could not be more different.

Thinkpad= Utilitarian

Mac = Style

 

I personally love the look of the thinkpad series, and they seem to be very durable.

 

i was a MBP user, but it was inadequate as a serious work laptops or if you do anything CPU/GPU intensive.

 

I am so tempted to say....

ThinkPad = Utilitarian + Style
Mac = Style

But that would probably not be fair. I wonder though - is the Mac as robust as the ThinkPad or is more fragile? Does the Mac require you to be ultra careful while using and carting it around? From what I see, that does not seem to be the case. Increasingly, I am seeing folks pulling out their Macs at the most unlikely of places.

 

Point of order:

I don't see ThinkPad as utilitarian. I see it as form based on function. Everything is designed the way it is on a ThinkPad for a reason; it has a style, but that style is based on an engineer's concept of what someone really needs.

I think Mac-to-ThinkPad switchers probably have two things in common.

1 - The hardware is more important than the OS (dyed-in-the-wool Mac users are unlikely to ever switch, because MacOS is important)

2 - Hardware needs to be well engineered.

The one major difference I see aside from looks and price, is that under the skin, Mac notebooks are traditionally a heck of a lot harder to work on than most brands of notebooks, so I would say that "well-engineered" mainly applies to the outward functionality of the system.

I've never done any repairs on the newer unibody line. I can only hope it has changed for the sake of folks who repair them, but in the time I spent repairing Apple notebooks (up into the aluminum models) , ease-of-repair was last important during the black Powerbook G3 era. Back then, I could have a Powerbook G3 stripped to its individual components in less than thirty minutes, they were designed that well.

 

I must admit I was very tempted with the new mac uni body, I also liked the mac philosophy: gui innovation, hardware innovation making multi-touch more mainstream, and a very stable OS since apple controls both the OS and the hardware.

I though for a long time wanted, durable, light weight, low on heat, and an more open OS (I run Linux). ThinkPad fits my needs in almost every way, but I do wish it was lighter a 2lb 12-13 inch would be a dream come true (may be impossible however.) I also though about what would using an apple be like in 5+ years. Apple computers get old after 3 or so years, the designs get old and you'll probably wanna go get another newer mac. I hear some users are still using their t42s and that makes me happy. When I see a ThinkPad I don't think it's looks are dated I think it's kind of a cool. The over engineered machined look . My friends though the T410s was 5 years old The jokes on them in 5 years their macs will look old, but mine will still look great.

 

I agree with LoneWolf15, form meets function. ThinkPad and Apple products are well thought-out, and for the most part well designed.

Apple's cooling has always been least to be desired. But that's what unibody gets you.

 

My x120e literally beats the 11.6mba in everything except form factor. Half the price as well

 

spot on. I always think people pay for style on mac and pay premium

 

Agreed.

I used to be a mac user. (Had two Macbook Pros)

Now I am PC all the way and having been through Dell and HP I easily became a ThinkPad "fanboy" if you wish to call it that.

 

Yeah I like those things too when it comes to Macs. Like, looking at OSX Lion, it looks quite unbelievable the level of innovation they have going. But, here's the problem, they have a great OS and a great design, but their devices are becoming less versatile by the minute. Sealed batteries, soldiered RAM (Air), PCIe SSDs that no one else sells (Air), less ports, no Blu-Ray drives, no FHD (well actually it'd be WUXGA) screen on the 15 inch, can't even get AC/DC power supplies. I really hate how they are increasingly boxing you into more and more constrained devices. I love Thinkpads, Elitebooks, and Precisions/Latitudes because you get a real choice in what hardware you can get and what accessories are available (AC/DC power supplies, docking stations, removable drive bays, etc).

Apple's laptops are pretty futuristic, but impractical. They're sleek, but they offer few features compared to our business-minded laptops, and they are really not versatile at all.

Now it is interesting that the two groups of users could be seen as similar. For me, I feel like Macs are like the colorful humanities and arts in academic studies and Thinkpads are like cold, hard science, mathematics, and engineering. They feel like such opposites, lol.

 

Hmmm...I am not sure I'd agree with this. While it is true that a lot of my friends who are in the hard sciences do use ThinkPads, but equally, a lot of my friends who move around in the arts and humanities circles also use ThinkPads.

That being given, I do see your point.

 

I agree that the Macbooks really do not give you much choice but most of the people who buy them only need their computers to do simple tasks. Take students for example...

All they need is Office, PDF viewing, internet etc...basic tasks and the Mac can do these things just fine. Just walk onto any campus and you'll see Macbooks everywhere. I'd even say they outnumber Thinkpads 100 to 1.

Step into the real world, however, and the Thinkpad dominates. So I wouldn't say that Mac users and Thinkpad users are similar...and the ones who say they transitioned (including myself...well not really because I have both), are in the minority.

 

I'm still trying to figure out where this assumption of Mac inferiority came from. To be perfectly clear, I've used the three major "Desktop" OSes. I personally prefer the split between Windows and Linux, and as a system administrator, I dealt with them both on the server side as well. When I was working with a MBP, I was able to perform all of my duties, the same as I would have on a Windows or Linux notebook. I'll even argue that there were a few tools that I miss from the Mac platform, tools that simply had more polish than their Windows counterparts. As an example, CoRD is one of the best RDP clients I've dealt with to date, and it's only available on OSX.

You do pay for polish with an Apple computer purchase, a premium price for the status symbol. That being said, their systems are equally well engineered, and the operating system is no toy. OSX is just as robust as any of the other options out there, and you can use it in just as many environments. The choice comes down to preference. All three options in OS-land can do the job, the question is whether Linus, Billy-G, or the Cult of Jobs suits your fancy.

 

I guess it is a personal preference, every OS and laptops offer their own unique features with their own advantages/disadvantages.

 

I (as an outsider) found another thing you guys have in common:

Apparantly you don't like to game?

Untill recently, apple didn't offer powerfull graphic cards, and eventhough they do now in their 15-17" models, I read about some errors occuring (the chassis isn't supposed to deal with that kind of heat as well). + most games run on windows, so unless you have bootcamp, you can forget about serious gaming in general.

Then there's the thinkpad group, which do have windows, but have intel graphics or those very weak bussines graphic cards which also rule out serious gaming.

A 2nd thing you guys have in common: a decent budget --> and with the abillity to pay for something decent, ofcourse comes the will to buy something decent. And since you need portibility, the expensive bulky gaming laptops (clevo/aw) also fall out of the possible options. It seems to me that apple and thinkpads are the only choices left. Well and maybe sony, but we all know about their excellent rip off repair service

 

oh you can get the DIY vidock and game when you are docked at the desk.

 

I don't know about you guys but I totally agree with Partizan about the gaming part. Something about gaming with a laptop doesn't really click for me, probably because the thought of playing a game on a small screen + heat build up in a compact machine doesn't sound appealing (then again, I don't play games nor have the time to do so anyway).

Budget? I guess we ThinkPadders have some sort of a decent budget for getting a laptop that isn't the best bang for the buck spec-wise. Now Apple people, to me, got some serious budget.

Recently I realized how similar ThinkPaddicts are to Apple fans and vice-versa. "Outsiders" usually critic on how we're paying so much for ThinkPads and Macbooks even though their specs are eh compared to other laptop brand/models with similar or better specs and for half the price. And we do so for the very same reason that KnightZero pointed out in his first paragraph on the first page; we're paying for innovations that specifically goes along with the brand.

 

Its really a story of those who chose form over function and realized they preferred function, or those who chose function realizing they would rather have form.

Honestly my opinion is that thinkpads have both form and function over macbooks, but then again thats my opinion.

 

Spot on.

I remember doing a hard drive upgrade on one of the first-gen iBooks (the multi-colored ones, aka the "toilet seat" model). The urge to stick a fork in a wall socket just to end it all was overwhelming.

ThinkPads, on the other hand, are a joy to work on. Lenovo provides excellent manuals and designs their systems well. That brings me to the biggest key difference in this regard: Apple will void your warranty for doing pretty much *anything* hardware-wise other than buying and plugging in more Apple gear. Lenovo will happily send you parts to let you repair your machine yourself.

The attitude of the CSRs when talking about this sort of thing is quite different as well: with Apple, I got the sense that they were trying to shame me for daring to open my own machine. With Lenovo... I don't know. We never got that far. I asked for a CRU replacement, recited my serial number and the FRU of the part, and gave the rep. my shipping address. That was it.

One final point (albeit not quite a serious one):

Macs are meant to impress and fit in with the college crowd in your local Starbucks. ThinkPads look at home in a board room. Which would you rather have?

 

I would second this. I find ThinkPads actually quite stylish. Even more so than Sonys and Macs.

 

I like the fact that I wont void my warranty and can get FRUs and replace them myself. Im a DIY guy, always have and always will be, and the thought of some tech or "genius" touching the tool I rely on to make money makes me sick to my stomach.

Thinkpads are at home everywhere. From school, to the board room back to starbucks and all the way in outer space in the space station. While Ill agree that macbooks were designed with coffee shop appearances in mind (and make up for 99% of laptops I see when i work in starbucks), Im just not that impressed. Bring back the old non chicklet keyboard and their mentality from back in the 90s then Ill start giving them respect again. Until then I picture them more as toys then a tool.

Agreed. Sleek and timeless.

 

well maybe not necessarily the users themselves, but the laptops. Like the Macbook Air is an artwork, worthy of being put into a museum. But when business needs to be done, only Thinkpads (and the other corporate brands) are tough enough to withstand day in and day out workflows.

 

Me and my family: ThinkPad users + Mac users.

Just got myself an iPad 2. Wonderful computer. No need to love this and hate that.

BTW, ThinkPad lovers: "ThinkPad" is written with a capital P. Would you spell your sweetheart's name wrong?

 

I have both and like them both. If only my X201s had a HD webcam built in I would be set.

 

Err...I think the ThinkPad (and I am primarily using my R400 as a reference) is also worthy of being considered as a work of art. In fact, I'd say, the ThinkPad sports a rather post-industrial design!

Remember the mysterious monolith from the opening pages and scenes from A.C. Clarke's 2001: A Space Odyssey? Black, with an uncommon texture, silent, cool to the touch, mysterious...something not quite from this world...

In sum, to me, the ThinkPad has a weirdly alien aesthetic to it.

The bottomline, of course, is that all these are subjective considerations and judgments!

 

The only computers on display in a museum of art are a apple desktop and thinkpad.

I dont hate apple, just wish they would go back to the ideologies they had in the early 90s. Back then they made wonderful top of the line machines and didnt care too much about looking good at a coffee shop. If apple went back to those ideologies and got rid of (or at least offered a non chicklet) the chicklet keyboard I would consider them. But the artsy fartsy nature made them make average computers at a top of the line price. I dont see any reason to buy a mac when I can do the same or more on a linux based thinkpad...or any computer for that matter.

But I will admit Mac OS in the early to mid 90s was ALOT better then windows. It wasnt til win 98 that I really started to use windows as a main computer. So again I miss the OLD Apple, and just have a distaste for the current Apple.

 

Really? I did not know that! Where are they displayed?

 

Which Thinkpad? The Cube is the Apple desktop right?

 

Which "old" Apple? The one under Gil Amelio? Please!

 

I'm a big gamer. I prefer to do my gaming on a desktop PC at home, but my Thinkpad does get wrangled for spontaneous LANparty duty on occasion. The thing is, I bought it to do so much more than that, so the fact that it doesn't run L4D2/SC2 at max settings is irrelevant - the fact that it can keep my Ubuntu VM, an RDP session or two, and all my important stuff running while I take said game break is far more important.

A decent budget......heh. I wouldn't quite call it that. My X201 is the first "BRAND NEW" Thinkpad I've ever owned - I've always purchased systems two to three years past their prime. Fate wouldn't let me be cutting edge for long - hence the X201's imminent upset as champ by the X220. Still, as someone who might just end up having to make a machine stretch, a Thinkpad is always a safe bet. My 560x served 5 years as my daily use system, ran Windows 98, 2k, XP, and finally, Ubuntu/Debian before being "retired" into its role as my occasional SSH access box. I know that my Thinkpad will stand the test of time, and it won't make me upgrade until I'm good and ready. The Vostro that I snagged for my mother slightly over a year ago is already starting to show signs of imminent death, and it's seen nowhere near the abuse that my X41 has. As others have said, if you are investing for the long run, a Thinkpad will be cheaper - if your needs don't grow, you may never need another computer!

 

Ill have to find the thread where I saw it.

Dont know the history of apple and its owners, but I will say they made much better computers for those who used them for more then watching movies and surfing in a coffee shop back then.

 

aw, c'mon, some of my friends have been making a decent living with MacBook Pro's. They are professional graphics designers.

 

Hey that is perfectly fine. Im not saying they are cheap computers, just that for the price they are no where near other hardware priced similarly. Heck I use much less powerful hardware (close to a MBA 11in) and Im a power user. With the hardware they use they can certainly lower the prices on their laptops. Thats all.

 

but why choose mac? I work with Photoshop and Bridge almost everyday on my ThinkPad and it's more than perfect. It's just a person's preferance in the end.


RE: Gaming

I switched primarily to Xbox 360, but I still do some light gaming on my ThinkPad. (L4D2, CSS, SWAT4, Audiosurf, etc.)

 

Lol, and don't forget the President of the United States is a Macbook Pro user. I'm not sure but I read that he's the first president to have a laptop at the resolute desk. I don't think he's even allowed to go onto public wifi hotspots, so don't expect him to be at Starbucks surfing the web

 

The leader of the free world using a mac?!?! Now I know the world is ending soon.

 

Probably because of OS security concerns.

 

The choice was between a Mac user and a guy who doesn't even know what a computer is

 

Id take computer ignorance!

But in all honesty to each their own.

 

not much of a differance then.. :laugh:

 

You're right, in a more profound way than most people will admit. but hey, you get what you get.

 

At least they know how to spell -- or is it spall? Seriously, though, it's unproductive to shoehorn people into boxes, be they black square boxes or unibody aluminum boxes. An acquaintance has just quit a big-name Internet outfit to focus on developing iPad apps using the Mac. Doesn't even know what a computer is? Far from it.

 

The price of thinkpads are not that outrageous it has similar prices to the same model lineup of the HP Elitebooks and Dell Latitude, etc. You can't really compared Thinkpads to the consumer grade laptops.

 

While I find Macs stylish (despite their inner engineering frustrations), Sony I can do without.

Note also that Sony is nearly as bad when it comes to working on them. I had to replace a display inverter on one for a colleague of my SO recently; it took twice as long as it would have with a Dell Latitude or a ThinkPad because the attempt to be stylish also outweighed the engineering. This was on a modern, late-model Core 2 system. For what you pay for a Sony Vaio, I can get a business-line laptop from Lenovo or Dell --it's a no-brainer.

I'm not saying that laptops can't look good, or shouldn't look good. I just think if you can't engineer them well on the outside and the inside, you should hang up your engineer's hat and find another field to work in. It's one reason why I think the designers of the entire HP dv-series should make a public apology for inflicting those systems on the populace.

Check the newer Dell Latitudes --a single large bottom panel removes, exposing just about every component you could ever think to upgrade. Only time will tell how well the cooling design holds up, and the exterior, but that's a huge change in design philosophy, and a welcome one. I believe the ThinkPad T420 has been made easier to work with as well.

 

Fortunately for us thinkpad users we get to deal with good engineering inside and out.

 

What an interesting thread.

My T43, while not "dying" is showing signs of age (the internal fan really should be replaced) and I find myself window shopping quite a bit these days for something new.

I WILL admit I'm enamored by the MacBook Air... really, what a beautiful machine. Expensive though of course. But I've played with it at the local Apple store and it's just a jewel, even the gloss on the screen isn't overdone like it is in the MBP line-up (and most consumer laptops)

I've never been a Mac owner but I'm almost tempted to switch just to see what all the hub-bub is really about. Mac users can be a really rabid bunch, can they all be wrong

...and I do really like my iPhone, so there's that.

One additional thing about the ThinkPad though is the TrackPoint. Nothing I've personally used comes close ...I don't even understand how people use normal PC touchpads, there just garish.

HOWEVER, I read LOTS of good things about Apples Trackpad, they've invested a lot into touch technology - so there's that to consider..

As for ThinkPad and gaming - I think the new Edge 420s with ATI graphics is going to be a real winner in that department. I'm actually real excited about this machine; it seems like a real nice blend between classic ThinkPad functionality and some more modern consumer niceties (HDMI, nice sound, good graphics, etc...). This could be a real winner is executed well.

 

Modern Musuem of Art in NYC

typo.