Thinkpad forum for old Thinkpads

Probably everyone here knows about this forum but I just discovered it today (duh):

http://forum.thinkpads.com/index.php

I have an old IBM ThinkPad 600X Pentium III which I plan to "revitalize" once I get a new laptop to use as a second computer. The site seems to have a ton of info because it is filled with people who buy used old IBM laptops and then upgrade them.

Being here on Notebooks review.com has me less afraid to tinker around with stuff... and I am looking into upgrading the memory at the moment. But my biggest dream is to get rid of the partition on the 12 gig hard drive into a 2gig C drive and a 10 gig D drive. IBM tech people always told me it was impossible. On another post here, someone gave me links to the drivers so I might try to experiment. But obviously I won't until I have my new laptop (which will hopefully be an ASUS z70va --yay!!)

 

Yep, actually, I came over to this forum because someone over there mentioned some interesting X33 rumors over here.

 

Justitia would you happen to know how many lumens (nits) the 600X has? Because I'm fluresent sensitive, and it's next to impossible to find out this sort of spec anywhere.

I don't even think the administration of NotebookReview knows of a lumens listing for brands of laptops. Very frustrating that this isn't available - similar to food manufacturers who only list percentage of cholesterol and carbs but thoughtlessly omit percentage of gluten and starch and acid.

 

I don't, sorry


yeah, forum.thinkpads.com is a great community and a ton of long time ibm'ers there, that thinkpads.com front page site is a little confusing though -- you have to dig into the forums to find the real help.

Oh, and the X33 is as we now know the X60 while the X41 is the X60s

 

http://www5.pc.ibm.com/us/me.nsf/LenovoInfo?OpenAgent&key=Thinkpad+literature&&cntry=US-L

you can get all the information on the current line of thinkpads here.

 

omg
thanks for the link
im doing the same thign with an ibm t20

-dj

 

Thanks for bringing up this thread... I forgot all about that link even though I have it bookmarked.

I just came on here because I am having a problem with my screen. But I think I will hit there.

And Judy, I am sorry but I haven't a clue about the lumens. If you go on the IBM site they still have documents about laptops. Maybe you can find it there --in an on-line user's manual or some other document.

And also, despite the flattering title that Notebookreview.com gives me, it is based on the number of posts I have made and not on my knowledge. Usually the number of posts would be a good indicator because probably that many posts are helping someone out. But in my case it's because I ask a gazillion questions about everything and sometimes actually drive people nuts...

 

the 600E is limited to 288Mb RAM. is that the case with the 600X as well?

 

Buy a new laptop and save your mind from the stress of having not enough ram to run XP and not enough storage to cruise the web.

 

If you go here: www.crucial.com, they scan your notebook on line and tell you what your max capacity is. Mine maxes out at 578MB (if I remember right) because there is 64MB RAM embedded in the board and room for 2 - 256 MB RAM sticks. Currently, I have 448 MB RAM because it came with the 64 MB RAM embedded and one 128 stick (the 256 was prohibitively expensive 6 years ago when I bought this ThinkPad), and 1 1/2 years ago I added a 256 MB RAM stick and I plan to buy another to swap the 128 MB RAM stick with.

Karl Gruber I agree with your advice. If you read to the end of my post, you see that I am getting a new ASUS z70va. It will come with a Pentium M 2.0 and 2GB RAM and a 7200 RBM 100 GB HD.

I want to upgrade my ThinkPad anyway because I will use it for more menial tasks on regular basis and as a back-up or second computer when I need one.

 

I don't read all posts. I think you would be better off with a Thinkpad vs. Asus.

 

In your first post to this thread you mentioned partitioning your 12GB HDD. Go buy Partition Magic 8.0 from Symantec (used to be PowerQuest but got sucked into nortonland....). You can get it for $69 retail or $20 or so on Ebay. If you're going to be dealing with XP you MUST get 8.0 or better. 7.0 and before would not handle the NTFS partitions properly.

I'm a former IBM/TSS Field Service Tech and have been using the PowerQuest software for years without any problems at all. With Partition Magic, you can resize, move, create new, and even make multiple boot options without harming your current data. Yep, that means no FDISK/FORMAT/START OVER FRESH headache. I know of only 1 other program that ever worked as reliably as Partition Magic and that was Partition Commander from VCom. I have not used it in years but the old version worked ok. I prefer the expert capabilities of Partition Magic.

 

Followup to Abaxter's response:

Abaxter, or anyone, if you can figure out where the heck to find out a listing of nits (a.k.a. candelas or cd or lumen) for, say, the A,X & T line, I'd appreciate it.

Another Q requiring a laptop guru:

Say a laptop is listed as having 150 nits.
And say a stand-alone LCD also states "150 nits".

The laptop has only ONE fluresent tube.
The stand-alone LCD has TWO ccfl tubes.

Does this mean that the latter has a TOTAL of 300 nits (i.e. 150 multiplied-by its 2 ccfl?
Or does it rather mean that each ccfl has only 75 nits?

 

Well, just some days ago I posted here somewhere in a Thinkpad related thread some measured cd/m² aka nits values for some of the actual Thinkpad series models. So you may use the forum search facility in order to find those postings.

Related to your question, it does mean that the overall luminance of the specific TFT panel (notebook panel or stand-alone LCD panel) is 150 nits, no matter if it has internally one or two backlights assembled. Also if multiple backlights are assembled inside a panel they don't always have to be fully equally in luminance (e.g. each 75 nits). Backlights also do tend to age over the time, meaning they loose some luminance over the years.

Further note that vendor supplied/advertised nits values are often mostly more theoretic values and thus are in practice seldom reached. This means you should not really trust or get for sure those advertised values, as for example the values printed in the IBM/Lenovo Tabook or the like.

BTW, the old TP 600 had a maximal luminance of 125 cd/m² and Contrast 170:1 for the minimum viewfield and 110:1 for the enhanced viewfield!

 

Here are some independent measured maximal luminance values for some Thinkpads:

- TP 765D = 98 cd/m²
- TP 560x = 85 cd/m²
- TP 570 = 102 cd/m²
- TP 600 = 125 cd/m²
- TP 770x = 122 cd/m²
- TP 240 = 68 cd/m²
- TP A22m = 130 cd/m²
- TP A31p = 127 cd/m² (15" TFT-LCD UXGA)
- TP X30 = 120 cd/m²
- TP R40e = 129 cd/m² (14" TFT-LCD XGA)
- TP R50 = 156 cd/m² (15" TFT-LCD SXGA+)
- TP R51 = 154 cd/m² (15" TFT-LCD XGA)
- TP R51 = 155 cd/m² (15" TFT-LCD SXGA+)
- TP T23 = 145 cd/m²
- TP T40 = 113 cd/m2 (14" TFT-LCD SXGA+)
- TP T41 = 128 cd/m² (14" TFT-LCD XGA)
...
... newer models
...
- TP X41 = 125 cd/m²
- TP X41T = 124 cd/m²
- TP T43 = 122 cd/m² (14" TFT-LCD XGA)
- TP R50e = 190 cd/m² (15" TFT-LCD XGA)
- TP Z60t = 139 cd/m²
- TP Z60m = 242 cd/m² (15,4" TFT-LCD WXGA MaxBright)

(TP = ThinkPad)

 

vkyr thank you SO much - you actually are a guru!
I copy/pasted your posts among my files for reference. BTW, where on earth do you get all those figures? Do you have access to those laptops, as well as some sort of meter which measures nits the way trifield meters measure EMF fields?

Also: regarding your prior post, I searched this forum & here's what I came up with:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=38579&highlight=cd%2Fm%B2

May I assume that the following PDF is incorrect in posting that the 600e & 600x are 150 nits?
http://www.andresen-data.no/pdf/IBM/Thinkpad/_TP_fam_teknisk.pdf

Another Q:

Is there any URL geared to laypeople, demonstrating pictorially the reason why, due to contrast-factor, larger LCD's require more CCFLs
(or longer? plumper? ccfl-tubes?)
in order to achieve the same brightness level as smaller LCDs?
Also, is there anywhere that lists for each LCD, whether there's one-ccfl (or) two-ccfl (or) three-ccfl inside?
And the configuration - such as are they placed horizontally, vertically, at top, bottom, perpendicular or parallel to each other? Many questions - no answers for laypeople!
Because, how does one know? For example,
there might be a 14" laptop-LCD with only ONE ccfl
yet there may be a 14" desktop-LCD with TWO ccfl.
Like, there's no rhyme or reason? No way of knowing via the size, how many CCFLs are inside, nor how potent each one is?
Would you believe - that on the entire www, not one LCD manufacturer, nor howstuffworks, nor anywhere is there such a demo geared for laypeople,
so they can view the INNARDS of various sizes LCDs/LAPTOPS
since pics are worth a million words? And nor does anyone think to provide a complete and accurate list (such as yours) of most LCD/laptop model's nits? I can't understand why?

 

I find this interesting what you say, particularly since you are an ex-IBM tech. When I called IBM tech (back when it still was IBM) they reommeded against using partition Magic becuase it woud not mesh well with the IBM proprietary software that comes with the machine.

But subsequent converstaions have convinced me that the techs were worried about drivers etc. Anyway I have not been willing to experiment while I have been dependant on it... but as soon as I get my new ASUS, I will be raring to go...

And I will remember your post and I may hit you up with a few PM's while I do it..if you don't mind....

 

Well, it's your choice, whether to read before you comment.

I am sure curious as to what abaxter edited before I chance to read your post.... None of this is worth getting too hot under the collar about anything... lol....

With regard to the ASUS... I chose that because it has the specs I want. I wanted non-glare widescreen in particular with high respolution. I waited to see what Lenovo was coming out with and what they have on line now does not meet my needs.

I also was waiting to see what ASUS would come out with... and they too didn't have what i wanted. So that's why I am going with ASUS's last fall model. People seem reall happy with it... even with the red ghost scare and some quality control issues. It has everything I want, though I would have liked Yonah... but that would have just bought me a little less weight and less battery drain. That wasn't worth what I would be giving up to buy what either IBM or ASUS were offering with the Core Duo.

 

I have 2 PMs on that site and I can't get on....

 

I just have access to a few Thinkpads and thus most values stem from people/friends I know from a special german IT magazin, which are engineers there and have a good independent technical lab with all the hightech capabilities in order to do high quality measurements of TFT panels. They always do notebook tests with a bunch of full blown technical measurements.

But if you want to measure the nits of your TFT panels (monitor or notebook) yourself at home, there is also a possibility to do so. Just buy a good Colorimeter as the "GretagMacBeth Eye One Display 2" which will show you the nits (cd/m²) values for certain regions of your TFT surface, e.g. where you placed and adjusted the colorimeter on the TFT panel.

Well, I believe IBM and Lenovo are just listing/taking over the datas the panel suppliers do name in their "Engineering Specifications" for the individual used TFT panel product.

So if you can identify the model and type of an assembled TFT panel inside a Thinkpad you can research for it's specific datas on the websites of the panel manufactors.

However, TFT screen specs can vary wildly between what is listed on the engineering books, and what it ends up being after it is installed inside a companies laptop or mounting platform. Sometimes the LCD and the backlight are not always a paired group, and the builder opts for a dimmer and more power efficient unit. So it finally all depends...

Well, as already mentioned above there are technical engineering specifications from TFT panel manufactors, which give some informations about these topics. However, not all informations are publicly available.

So if you look at the specs of some TFT panel vendors, you can partly find some common relevant informations about the panels.

• IDTech
• LG-Philips
• Samsung
• ...and so on, too much to list them all...

At least IDTech gives some more informations inside their TFT PDF product-specs. Also companies like ScreenTek, which are specialized on TFT-panels, do have/know and partly offer more surrounding informations about specific LCDs/TFTs.

Pictorially demonstrations about the insights of TFT-panels and things like ccfl-tubes/backlights etc. are rare and mostly only available as engineering papers for the industry. Further most backlight and LED technologies do stem from other taiwan component suppliers, which are spezialized on these parts. All in all there isn't any publicly available list which shows you for each LCD, whether there's one-ccfl, two-ccfl, three-ccfl inside or their orientation inside an assembled TFT screen etc. since this is also manufactor/builder dependent.

However, if you search on the internet you can sometimes find some articles, which explain certain TFT lighting technologies, for example here LEDs vs. backlights:

http://www.mobilityguru.com/2005/12/12/exit_the_sony_vaio_t/page12.html
http://www.mobilityguru.com/2005/12/12/exit_the_sony_vaio_t/page13.html
...
and so on
...

 

Thanks again, vkyr for all those helpful links!
I note that IDtech offers all specs except for number of CCFLs, then again, none of them ever provide that....

The Screentek FAQ was informative, and I wonder whether subsequent pages of the mobilityguru article shows CCFL orientation later in the article (I didn't plow thru it all yet).
As for colorimeter, I was just interested in finding out this info prior to acquisition. My purpose isn't for professional reasons, rather due to health issues vis-a-vis the more powerful displays.

BTW, upon seeing mobilityguru, I googled a bit, and found the following discussion of LEDs which was sorta interesting if a bit over my head. I'm still trying to figure out whether LEDs would truly be healthier than CCFLs (despite not containing mercury). After all, my eyes get just as irritated from the LED on my digicam as from LCDs. You might think that dimming LCDs via Nvidia card would have helped me, but it didn't. Maybe that's because my desktop LCD (Dell) has 2 backlights requiring 2 inverters & thus more voltage & more AC current? I wouldn't know, and I can't even get the darn thing open to see what's inside. It's like there's a shroud of secrecy - as if manufacturers don't want people to have access and see inside.

Anyway, here's the googled-for discussion I mentioned:
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/003669.html

Veering off the topic of Thinkpads, I'd asked a salesguy at Apple HQ what the nits value for various size Apple LCDs are. He responded that they're all 250 cd/m², no matter the size, including ibook, powerbook, macbook & imac. But I doubt the accuracy of that assertion because when viewed at the store, it seemed to me that, for example, the macbook was much brighter than, say, powerbook.

 

Related to LEDs as a replacement for traditional backlights and their advantages, do a search on the net for example about "Osram Opto Semiconductors µSideLED". Osram recently showcased how a 15" notebook benefits from LEDs as backlights in contrast to traditional backlighting.



However there are a bunch of companies in the LED backlighting field for notebooks as suppliers, like for example...

- Tyntek
- Everlight
- Osram
- iSuppli
- Epistar
- ... and so on...

IMO LED based backlighting will be sooner or later the defacto standard, since it offers a higher luminance by less consuming power (...it's much more power/energy saving).


Related to Apple and the nits values of their notebooks, well what do you expect from a salesguy, these are more sales/marketing related persons and do tell a lot of fairy tales, if they see some potential to sell something.

Of course their notebook LCDs aren't that luminant, their nits values are by far not this good and I easily could blame the statements of that salesperson, but I better don't post some of the nits values for their iBooks and PowerBooks LCDs here, in order to not discriminate the Apple community.

Maybe I should add, as a former NeXT germany employee, of course I like their OS (since it's based on NeXTStep/OpenStep/BSD and FreeBSD parts) and thus also some of the Apple notebook designs/L&F, but here more the notebook looks, as some of the hardware feel could be of better quality.

 

Thanks for the thrice time!

One thing - seems I speak a different language than most people, since most others are seeking bright whereas I'm seeking low-power & dim.

Judging by just the LED on my digicam (which irritates me) I'm not sure that LEDs will be an improvement for my particular situation. I.E. it may not be the mercury, or the alternate-current voltage which impacts my health, but rather the brightness. On the other hand, the fact that dimming my desktop LCD didn't help either, maybe it does have to do with the AC inverters. Or maybe it's the epoxy chemical emissions etc... I'll never get the mystery solved until I'd actually try some dimmed laptops as well as dimmed LED monitors.

In fact, by way of analogy, just like people don't appreciate their limbs until, say, they sprain an ankle, similarly I think that people say they "love" their laptops but maybe don't realize that it's because their laptops don't impact on their health as much as if they'd be using a more powerful monitor. They just take it for granted. What's my point? Maybe part of the reason that some Macs and Thinkpads have been so popular is because their displays were softer? Just speculating... because truth to tell, I myself had shopped for a bright/sharp monitor because so many online people were plugging for same. But once I used it, did I regret it!

Take care, & thanks again.

 

Well, just the luminance of course doesn't make a good LCD monitor/screen, there are a lot of other aspects which have to be take into account too. Like for example the contrasts, viewing angles, sharpness and dpi, coloring, mate or glossy surfaces... and so on. Low power consumtion would be something general ideal for notebooks, in contrast to this dim TFTs usually not this much, since you can individually adjust the brightness of a TFT, if it seems to be too luminant for you and your eyes.

Good desktop LCD monitors, like for example those from EIZO, NEC and some others, do offer a completely different level of quality and individual adjustment here.

I suppose what in your case might be the fact -by what you call "the impact on health"- relatet to Thinkpads is, that they use mate TFTs, which are usually better suited for long time working on a LCD screen and the eyes in general. - However, even if things like the luminance/brightness can be adjusted, e.g. setup to lower levels, there are always still other individual components playing a role, if someone has sensible eyes or easily gets headache.

So I would say, there are always also a bunch of individual preferences and aspects to taking into account and which do play some important role, when deciding or choosing what might be the right display for one. And everybody has to finally decide individually on it's own what might be right thing here to fit.

Have a good time and take your own individual decisions.

 

Uh, there's actually more to my story - I can explain further if you contact me at my below disposable address (if you're interested).

Hope the address will work:

[email protected]