Thinkpads to be discontinued?

I ran into this guy at a computer store today while I was looking over some Thinkpads on display. He told me that the Thinkpads will be discontinued after the "contract between IBM and Lenovo" expires. The "Thinkpad" moniker will be gone and replaced by the Lenovo brand. The design and quality that we all love about in the Thinkpads will be a thing of the past in about a year. That's why he quickly bought one before they're all gone.

This is true?

I'm considering the T61, but I want to wait until 1Q '08 when the new Intel Core 2 chips come out. If this rumor is true, then I might have to purchase it now.

Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

While it is possible, Lenovo just came up with a new ThinkPad logo they'll be using on all ThinkPads after the start of 2008, so I'm guessing the name won't be going anyways soon, or so I believe.

And by "new Core 2 chips." Are you referring to Montevina, which will be the new Centrino platform, or Nehalem, which is new line or processors in 2008? Because if it is indeed the latter, you'll be looking at a longer wait than the first quarter.

 

It would be a dumb move to do so. The thinkpad is a valuable part of Lenovo, and by removing the thinkpad line, it would drive away many repeat (IBM)customers like myself

 

They'll keep the ThinkPad line, it just won't be called "ThinkPad," unless Lenovo renews its contract with IBM over the brand or buy it from them. The end of the current contract is still a few years away, and perhaps if Lenovo feels they have a big enough brand-presence in the world by then, they could drop it. Or, if enough customers have the same mindset as you, they could just as easily buy the brand off of IBM altogether.

 

Dumping the thinkpad name will never happen. they've already paid a ton of money to license that name from IBM. discontinuing would kill the reason they bought it in the first place.

It's like McDonald's owner Ray Kroc deciding to rename McDonald's to Kroc's and renaming the BigMac to the BigKroc.

Not gonna happen.

I dare say that you can trust anyone who works at a retail store to know about 50% as much about Lenovo as one of those great CSR's we come to love and hate. Love them for the free battery. Hate them for everything else. Either way, don't be too gullible. Store CSR's are no better than Bangalorean CSR's, although the Store CSR's probably speak real engrish.

 

Actually, Lenovo didn't buy the name from IBM. IBM and Lenovo have a multi-year deal to let Lenovo use the name, but that contract expires in a few years. In fact there's a sunset clause of sorts where Lenovo licensed the logo for a shorter amount of time than the name, which is why they came out with a new logo and are currently using both old and new logos. By next year, Lenovo will dump the IBM logo completely and stick with the new ThinkPad logo. Seeing the direction this trend is heading, Lenovo probably will not renew the contract to license the ThinkPad brand.

 

yes there will be a new intel chip in 08, Montevina. Release date is due in Q2

 

By the time i get my t61p... Montevina would have already came out

 

There's treachery afoot!

 

I find it hard to believe that Lenovo would pay all that money and not retain the ThinkPad name.

 

Yeah that was part of the deal.

ONly thing they have to drop in the five year timeframe is "IBM".

 

I worked many years for a VERY large audio manufacturer and I was involved in several projects that included brand licensing. Let me tell you...large corporations can do strange, illogical things, especially if the chairman of the board of directors has an ego as big as the outdoors. Don't rule anything out regarding the IBM ThinkPad brand/logo.

 

Well, "ChinesePad" would not sound that bad at the end assuming that the chairman of the board of directors is a man enough..lol..in which a doubt...either way, as long as the quality is there, I would care less about the name.

However, I doubt that they will change it... besides the "IBM" part.

 

I'm pretty sure Lenovo bought the ThinkPad brand outright back in May 2005. The ThinkPad and ThinkCentre brands are now owned by Lenovo and they are free to use it as they wish. What is phasing out is the IBM moniker which they are licensed to use until 2008 or 2009 (I forgot what I read a few years ago).

 

I think it's a good thing, so they can stop dragging the name through the mud.

The Thinkpad name is now Synonymous with:
1. Shipping delays,
2. On and off Quality control
3. iffy screens.
4. The phasing out of IPS screens
5. Poor service for send away service(Selectron's problem).
6. Poor information management(warranty's not showing in their computer).
7. T-series no longer thin and light.

This list can go on, feel free to add.

 

I believe that is correct. This topic has been discussed to death previously. People still have this nostalgic attachment to IBM for no reason at all. It's a Lenovo Thinkpad. What's the significance of having an IBM-branded Thinkpad vs a non-IBM branded one? Assuming everything else stays the same (which I believe so), isn't it still the same computer?

 

Apparently not everyone is assuming similarly (just read the post immediately above yours).

 

Apparently everyone is free to assume whatever they wish, also Dell section is near, right?

And, some of these points are questionable...I just don't think that we need to ruin another thread just because someone had issues like "warranty's not showing in their computer"... not to mention that Lenovo doesn't manufacture screens and use the same as the other brands...etc.

 

Maybe IBM would some how get back into the computer OEM business. Reclaim the IBM thinkpad Brand & Logo, and get back to making quality laptops of OLD. Let Lenovo keep the junk they are putting out.

 

The similarity between you and Lenovo is that both of you " can only hope to improve".

 

lol Dreamer always with the personal insults.

 

Erm, is that a personal insult? It's written under his title, I just did copy&paste it...

 

Yeah, I thought so. I apologize if you didn't mean it this way, but you have a habit of attacking others rather than addressing their posts. BTW what does "the dell section is near" mean/relate?

 

Well, it's fact not an insult... both of them seem to get negative reputation...and it wasn't meant as an insult.

Nothing besides that some people may be "happier" in there...I mean "warranty's is showing in their computer" perfectly, afaik... so, I'm suggesting something that would fit his needs "better"...

Talking about habits, you have a habit to whine about your problems with Lenovo even in threads, which aren't exactly connected with that.

 

If IBM reclaims all its trademarks and production it will have 2 choice regarding quality and price.

1. Continue production in China, get poor quality, but keep prices low.

2. Produce higher quality in any location and price goes up. or produce in USA or Japan with exceptional quality prices goes way up like they used to be.

 

On point two, even before the lenovo acquisition, not all thinkpads were made in japan. Some in china, and some in mexico even.

And on point one- come on, you're talking like they're already giving them away at sub $500 acer prices!

:laugh:

 

I've heard that, soon, we'll see color thinkpad like white Thinkpad, Orange Thinkpad, ....and lighting, like, dell XPS stuff. Also if you're looking for a Thinkpad, better buy it now while the quality is still good, once Lenovo moves the whole testing department out of US soil to China to save cost at the end of this year, well you know how the quality will become.

 

So, you haven't visited the Lenovo site recently, they already offer different colors...

 

oh dang, where did you get that?

 

Dont' listen to him, that's just from ColorWare.

 

My T43 was made in China and has a bad screen. What's with all this nostalgia for past IBM glory? Just like every other computer manufacturer, IBM was doing everything it could to cut manufacturing costs. I believe some of the "old" IBM thinkpads were actually made in the same factories as the Lenovo versions now.

The big question for me is what will change if the Thinkpad design team is moved out of the US. I worry that moving design as well as manufacture offshore will be a big hit on Thinkpad quality. However, hopefully by then there will be enough other manufacturers who realize there are people out there willing to pay a premium for solidly designed (not gimmicky) and well-made laptops.

 

Why are people complaining so much about lenovo's build quality? They may not be as good as they were in the past but how many other quality notebooks are out in the market these days?

As for the new roll cage, whats so bad and gimmicky about it?

 

People are complaining about the softer plasticky shell that surrounds the roll cage. If the shell was made out of carbon-fiber composite with Kevlar, everybody would be raving about it. That would increase the cost of the notebook, but it would be really cool.

 

chinkpad.

it's got a ring to it.

i'm chinese. so i can't be racist against myself.

k thanks.

 

The idea of a multi-year deal to let Lenovo use the thinkpname IS licensing. you can license a name, and you can license a logo. buying a logo, renting a logo, whatever, money changed hands. and in trademarks and names that's licensing.

You shouldn't jump so quick to conclude you have all the info that most of us already know simply by talking to CSR's and browsing lenovo's websites.
Anyone who's been on these boards longer than 2 weeks and has half a brain already knows what you're espousing as your own insider information.

 

What? I never contested the definition of licensing. I was talking about how Lenovo's deal to license is only temporary. I don't understand what your point is. Is your point that my comment was wrong? If so, you have a real elegant way of stating that.

Look, I honestly thought that the ThinkPad licensing was only temporary, I guess that's my mistake although I have yet to see anyone throw up a link that shows Lenovo did permanently purchase the brand sans IBM logo. When someone does, I will gladly recant my statement.

Assuming I'm wrong, thanks to you because you don't even have enough respect to offer proof, I made a simple mistake. You don't need to be pointing fingers and trying to make me look like a jackass.

 

as far as I know, the t42 was already Lenovo, so your t43 was made by Lenovo as well.

 

no one's trying to make you look like a jackass, calm down. your first post response seemed contradictory to what i had said about licensing.

that said, everyone will just wait until lenovo decides when its licensing is finished or not, it probably isn't worth speculating about anyway.

/cheers.

 

Actually it might have still been IBM... cannot remember off hand what month I bought it. The sale of the business to Lenovo was completed in May 2005. For the record, however, my T40 before it was also made in China.

And FYI to the debate on whether Thinkpad is licensed or owned by Lenovo... this from the 2004 IBM press release:

"Mr. Yang added that the transaction will help establish Lenovo's international name recognition by leveraging IBM's powerful global brand through a five-year brand licensing agreement as well as through ownership of the globally-recognized "Think" family of trademarks."

Sounds like Lenovo is licensing the IBM brand name and owns the "Think" trademarks.

 

Fair enough. By the way, the_passenger is saying that Lenovo was the ODM for the T42 onward. Lenovo was the ODM for sometime before they bought the IBM PC business, so I don't understand why people complain, "My T4x was soo much better Lenovo suxorz," when Lenovo has made Thinkpads even back when IBM ran the business.

 

??

Don't understand your point. T40/41 owners can say it no?? And if you haven't noticed, most of the complaints about 4x series are 42 and 43.

 

"Under the terms of the sale, Lenovo will pay $600m in cash and $650m in common stock, and assume $500m in IBM debt, giving it ownership of the Think family of trademarks which includes the ThinkPad laptops. Lenovo also gains the right to produce IBM-branded PCs under a five-year licencing agreement."

Source: Financial Times

Playmaker, maybe you could have offered something to back up your claims that Lenovo was temporarily licensing the "Think" brand -- you stated it with such certainty. What company on Earth would pay nearly $2 billion just to rent the name of a failing brand (i.e. unprofitable) for just a few years? Do you think you could possibly recoup those costs let alone make a profit in just a few years?

 

That's a very naive and short-sighted indictment of the idea that Lenovo could've just temporarily licensed the brand. First of all, under your assumption that they can't recoup the costs and make a profit in just a few years, the same result would be true even if that $2 billion was directed towards a permanent brand acquisition because either way, the $2 billion is to be spent. Second, if Lenovo could've gotten a jump start in a non-Asian market by just temporarily using the ThinkPad brand, then the positive effects will be long-lasting. Do you think Lenovo would've been better off not using the TP brand at all since you claim it is failing and unprofitable? Do you think people would rather purchase a ThinkPad or some no-name Chinese PC brand?

Not to mention, your second rhetorical question contradicts your first. The second rhetorical question assumes that Lenovo could only recoup the costs and make a profit in more than "just a few years" under the ThinkPad brand, yet, your first rhetorical question asserts that the brand is failing and unprofitable as it is.

Whoops LOL. Apparently I thought T4x was only T42 and T43. Anyhow, people still rave about the T43 as opposed to the T61.

 

I didn't really notice any difference in build quality between my T40 and T43... the biggest problem suffered by the T43 IMO is the heat/fan issue. That's what most people seems to be complaining about (it's certainly what I complain about every day

 

Hey you guys,

Seems like there's a different answer from every response here. I guess time will tell.

About the new Core 2 chips I was talking about, Intel is launching Penryn-based chips in Q1 '08.

Montevina is the PLATFORM that will be replacing Santa Rosa in Q2 '08. So that's about 3 months apart.

See source below.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8067

 

Biggest step down in quality imo was from t4x to t 60 (and z 60 w/o titanium lid). The latter models represent the intersection of plastic and no roll cage in lid (60 first plastic lid, 61 first roll cage in lid). Bad combo- and learned that one the hard way ( kinda learned- bought a t 60 after having a Z's screen die on me).

I'm just going to (have to) be scareful with this one.

 

First of all, don't blame Lenovo for bad product quality and poor design. As far as I know, ThinkPad is still designed and tested in Yamato Lab in Japan. And Lenovo has already set up an overseas operation center in NC.

However, it's the decision of Lenovo to reduce cost and boost sales in US market. Everybody knows IBM ThinkPad is cool and tough, but how many American would pay over $2000 for IBM ThinkPad? Thanks to Lenovo, we are now able to buy ThinkPad T61 for only $889. And many local retail stores and agents have reported that they received stronger and timely support from Lenovo than IBM. IBM don't even care about personal customers! They only admire corporate sales.

I am Chinese. I hope American customers not to blame Lenovo for screwing up the ThinkPad brand. Lenovo have already offered very competitive price for US customers, while ThinkPad is still marketing as an expensive high-end brand in China. That is so unfair! Maybe Lenovo had degraded ThinkPad brand, but if ThinkPad is still marketed by IBM, it'll lose even more money and lead the bankcrupt of IBM eventually.

 

Sub $1000 notebook just means that the parts are much cheaper and quality is lower. It's not like they were magically able to offer us cheaper prices.

If you have not noticed, there are boatloads of posts complaining about Lenovo support. There was nowhere near the problems as there are now. So I don't see how you can say that Lenovo provides better support.

IBM never would have become bankrupt from ThinkPad losses. ThinkPads were never their main business/money maker.

 

So, let's see....

If Lenovo magically renames all Thinkpads IBM again (with no trace of Lenovo branding at all), would all complaints suddenly disappear? Are people judging Lenovo being a Chinese company or have they actually thought about how mass-production strategies have seek to lower costs at the expense of a possible drop in quality? I'd bet that if IBM were to retain its PC division today, it would do what Lenovo's doing right now, i.e. cutting costs aggressively to fend off HP and Dell in the enterprise market.

 

Don't jump to your conclusion so quickly. Reducing cost by using cheaper parts doesn't equal to worse quality. I am personally an engineer in electronics and I know there is a lot of ways to reduce cost without damage the integrity of product quality. Such ways include better engineering (redesign lid), cost down/replacing suppliers (NMB to other suppliers), advanced CAD design/validation (reduce thermal, EMC, environmental validation cost), VA/VE engineering (change 14.1" XGA to cheaper 14.1" WXGA) , and etc. Also the price of every computer parts is dropping monthly. BTW, I didn't say $2000 mid-level T60 would drop to $899. The configuration level is totally different, and $899 is only for entry-level T61.

Do you know how much money IBM has lost for PC division? Over 2 billion US dollar from 1995 to 2004, even if IBM already changed it's core business from PC to e-business, consulting, and IT service in the 1990's. Of course IBM won't be bankrupted from ThinkPad Losses. To be more accurate, if IBM was still produce PC as it's most important business from 1990's and had no control over it's huge cost and awful management, it would suffer from very considerable losses today.

When I say better support, I means support to sales agents and retail stores on both technical and business matters. It's funny IBM name some of their models "Best Seller" and you can't even find these models in most electronics chain stores. Hope Lenovo would change that.

If you complain about customer support, I would say satisfied customers won't come and praise Lenovo here normally. Luckily, although Lenovo has shut down IBM manufacturing facilities in Japan and Mexico while keeping IIPC in Shenzhen China, they didn't relocate calling center from US to India to reduce cost like Dell or HP/Compaq. Isn't this Chinese company thoughtful by providing support to US customers from native English speakers? They even offered over 1800 job opportunities for NC state, while Dell sales rep was writing emails to his customers not to buy from Lenovo cuz it's a Chinese company. I would like to experience their support if I decide to buy a new ThinkPad.