Thinkpads... a little behind on the industry? -X220

Hello,

I am a huge fan of thinkpads.

I have tried X220 and is certanly a great laptop.

By looking at samsung 9 and macbook air, great processors (i5 and i7) and msata SSD technology, I am starting to believe that thinkpads are getting a little behind.

I am aware that X220 can be equipped with a msata, it will show the speed benefits but the size will be the same.

When will lenovo come up with a new X220 with msata SSD as factory standard?

I am positive that this will reduce the footprint of the notebook considerably.
This will surely be my option. I believe msata SSD is a true revolution that will leave completely out of the market normal HDD.

Anyways, only my humble thoughts... correct me If I am wrong, I don't mean to offend nobody.

 

Business-class Thinkpads (T-series, X-series) have never been on the cutting edge of technology, mainly because business users (me included) would prefer tried and tested reliability over the very latest tech. It's the nature of the beast, so to speak, but Lenovo has gotten a little more up to date than IBM once was with its business-class laptops IIRC.

 

the macbook air and samsung series 9 are thinner partially because they use ultra low voltage processors. the X220 uses a standard voltage processor that you'd commonly find in 14-17" notebooks. it also allows you to use a hard drive AND an SSD, has a removable battery, and other options most standard notebooks have. you can't upgrade anything in the macbook air yourself besides the SSD so i'd say the X220 and macbook air/samsung 9 are in two different classes.

 

I like the Air, quite a bit actually. When I got my X220i, the debate was between it and the Air. I don't know much about the 9, but the X220 is the best notebook being sold right now. If you like the others that much, then buy them and move on with your life.

The Intel mSATA, which I'm sure Lenovo would love to offer, are so scarce right now, They could never possibly meet the demand for them. Then everyone's panties would get in a bunch over how unfair it was they were perpetually out of stock.

 

Why is it possible that mac can get msata ssd stock, but lenovo can't?

 

Exactly.

Apple uses a proprietary ssd for the Air. And why would you want to buy the msata ssd from Lenovo. Hard drives and memory are almost always grossly overpriced from the mfr. The Intel 80gb were offered on the W520 for while, $370 iirc.

 

I am just saying, that new thinkpads will come with only msata SSD, resulting in a smaller laptop. (similar to macbook air).

 

The X220 has 1 flaw only:

No high resolution display....


Dear Lenovo,

Please add a 1440x900 IPS option for the X220.

Thanks,
The People.

 

Will probably get small pixels, that resolution would be better on a bigger screen, don't you think?

and... I think HDD is old stuff, it will be replaced soon. SSD is extremely fast!

 

Why? The thinner chassis only results in these things:

1. More heat. This will lead to more throttling.

2. Less mass and material, easier to break something.

3. Flopping back and forth in the laptop compartment of a bag.

4. Finger cramps from carrying it.

If anything, I find the MBA and laptops under 1"-ish grossly thin. I personally don't see why having laptops under 1" would serve any purpose function wise. I find my W520 plenty thin already, and it is around 1.42" thick at its thickest point. Thicker laptops are more comfortable to carry around by hand in my opinion anyways.

 

HDD is not going to go anytime soon, it has proven reliability, has high storage density, and is cheap as dirt. Instead of comparing to a Macbook Air, which is not really a standard laptop and more of a specialty item (ahem or shall I say, fashion statement), compare to the regular Macbook Pro. When HDD disappears from that you can expect HDD to be gone from most manufacturers.

 

I think notebook manufacturers do their best to keep them as thin as possible.

 

SSD $/gb isn't coming down very fast, hdd's aren't going anywhere. Look at the storage setup in my sig, that's not something possible in the MBA or Samsung 9.

 

Something like the MBA isn't a product of "doing their best to keep them as thin as possible", it is a product of "trying to see how thin a laptop can get". ThinkPads are thick-ish (though, I find them plenty thin) because the extra thickness helps with cooling both the components inside, and with keeping the chassis cooler as a result.

 

This this this this.... that's where the 13" MBA wins, as I mentioned in another thread.

 

depends on what perspectives you are taking. (But i agree that there should be higher resolution LCD on the 12.5 inch LCD).

Business laptops are usually about options, and not lack of options. One size fits all mentality doesn't particularly go well with business customers. Also, since not all business or corporations move at the same pace on the technology curve, therefore if you only cater specifically for one market then you bound to leave another behind. As such business laptops carry forward legacy devices for much longer period then a consumer grade laptops, which is about latest and greatest.

This is the same analogy used for military vehicles, which are usually couple of generations behind the civilian market in terms of design and technology. But they are more reliable (since they use battle tested design and technology), easily serviced in battle theatre with limited toolset and downtime, have parts that are widely available and easily sourced, can be used under various conditions that civilian vehicles can't. If you take the analogy of military vehicles and apply it to the business laptops, then similar concept applies.

Also, with SSD, once they fail, the data is nigh impossible to recover, while the platter based hdd there is still some hope of doing so.

Apple have different design objective and most other companies can't really beat it. For one they could create this ultrathin laptop, but they wouldn't know how to market it as such, and in the end it would dissipate from the market with a loss. Now they are usually smart about how they market a product, let Apple release something first and then follow with a similar product and Apple's big budget marketing would hopefully gain awareness for their products too. If Apple's new product whimpers out in the market, then this is an obvious sign that this product technology is not mature enough, and not something that they should imitate. Obviously they lose out on first mover advantage, but since they have so many products models been a second mover isn't all bad (also there is lower risk involved).

 

I disagree. The days of corporations willing to drop $2k on a notebook are long gone, at least for most anyway. I'm sure there a small subset of businesses still willing. This is how you end up with products like the X120e or soon to be the X121e. They functional and cheap.

I also think the number of people who actually want WXGA+ on a 12" notebook is small. It seems larger than it really is because the people here are enthusiasts, which are more likely to lament this fact. They're here in disproportionate numbers as compared to the general notebook buying customers. You also have to remember Lenovo makes most of its money selling to business, government and education. They care most about cost and compatibility, not WXGA+ LCDs or discrete GPUs in 12" notebooks.

 

Is the X1 a business laptop?

 

5. Inferior keyboard.

 

I think you already know the answer to that one. It is a hybrid laptop, taking elements from consumer laptops and elements from business laptops.

@Zaz, when i say they should have higher resolution LCD, it is simply a selfish wish, so there was not much logical business case behind it.

 

There is a business case for a higher res screen. I know quite a few managers and other people that won't stoop to 1366x768 no matter how sexy the machine is. 1366x768 can be a productivity killer compared to 1440x900 or 1600x900.

As for the thin and light business machines, I Think Lenovo will eventually create the perfect machine. If they put a backlit keyboard on the T420s and added the RapidCharge tech from the X1, that would be pretty close to perfect for many people. They would still need to improve the LCD quality some in my opinion.

 

The main advantage of HDD is merely price. It has less reliability in laptops moving around.

 

Define reliable. Most of my drives get shelved long before they fail. There isn't a long enough history with SSD to prove they are more reliable.

 

SSD's are more durable. Reliability is yet to be seen, you can only write to an SSD so many times before it fails.

Also, if there was enough demand, I'm sure Lenovo would cater to it. Thus there is not enough demand for Lenovo to bother. Or maybe its some sort of market segmentation to push people towards the T420s...

 

X220 could have optional 1600x900 screen, after all its a tad bit bigger than the one on X20xS, so it shouldnt, in theory, look that much cramped.

 

I'm just a newb, but I don't think SSD's will catch on very fast as long as someone could advertise a Terabyte hardrive for like 100 dollars, when an 80g SSD is around the same price. Most people can't justify the extremely high price tag if the only benefits are that it's more durable and that it boots faster.
Though the cloud might change that :]

And a x220 with a 1600x900 hundred option would be amazing, but I don't think most people who go after 12.5" ultra-portables are going to be super concerned about how much they can fit on the screen :X

 

A X220 with 1600x900 would be great. Only reason why I'm clinging on to the x201s is for the higher resolution, which is definitely better for productivity.
Nothing more frustrating when you're doing remote work and scrolling incessantly on a crap low resolution of 1280x800 or 1366x768 (something the s0ny Z 900p/1080p users are probably chuckling about).

 

I don't think demand is or should be the only driver. If you want to create markets and a brand, you have to out innovate the other guy.

IBM and Lenovo have done that. Apple certainly has.

It's obvious Lenovo is willing to experiment and take risks. They don't always payoff and I'm sure the X1 isn't meeting revenue targets. If it is, then they were set really low.

There are several technologies in the X1 that are very good so I'm sure we'll see them show up in other machines. My personal favs are the backlit keyboard, RapidCharge, and the high strength chassis.

I can't wait to see what's next.

 

Exactly.... HDDs = reliable but less durable, SSDs = durable but not yet proven to be more reliable

Judging by the current Intel 8MB bug and various Sandforce drive issues I would not yet trust sensitive data to an SSD.

 

The X220 is perfect in every sense except for the resolution, trackpad, and thinner HDD. If they had kept a 16:10 or offered 1440x900 or 1600x900, that would be the best. I think for the trackpad, they should have made it without buttons or gotten rid of it all together. It's definitely too cramped to add a trackpad on an ultraportable. Having just the trackpoint would be nicer. Design the chassis so it can fit a more standard 9.5 mm HDD.

 

I'd even say unreliable. tbh you can snag a 160gb ssd off ebay in the low 200s, but I haven't done that because I am highly doubtful of their reliability. My friend has an OCZ drive that he RMAed 5 times already. Now it's an OCZ drive which isn't as reliable as the intel drive but it goes to say something about the reliability of new technology. With HDD I've had one die before, but some rather bad stuff happened to it before it finally gave in. They're so cheap that getting another one isn't a big deal at all.

 

is that in the 14 inch or 12 inch format? backlight keyboard is overrated, also if Lenovo was to implement something like that then would probably give you an island style key from X1.

 

Wouldn't a backlit keyboard be bad for keyboard spills?

 

The Lenovo backlit keyboard is engineered for spills. People seem to have a love hate relationship on this issue. I used an X1 for a month. I would like the option to choose on all ThinkPads then we could put the debate to rest.

As for the higher resolutions, I'm really talking about a 13 or 14 inch screen. Everyone the thinks 12 or 12.5" is productive is in denial.

Probably the sole exception is the IPS X220. That was smart. Now can we get a damn IPS in a 14.1" ???

I know, it'll be too expensive. Rinse, Repeat.

 

hum, probably not too expensive as such. But rather Lenovo won't be the only one in the industry using that screen. Maybe they could fuse 2 iPad's IPS screen together and let us use that.

 

I don't think that there is much to base the idea "Thinkpads... a little behind on the industry," as far as hardware is concerned.

I don't think that there is anything lacking in the tech in the X220. It has an exceptionally powerful processor for such a small computer, good battery life with an option for an astounding battery life, an IPS screen, displayport.

As far as the msata, I would rather they put in a 10mm drive in the x220, for the most drive options; in this case using bleeding edge tech turns me off.

I have 360GB used on my hard drive --could you please buy me a SSD for my computer : )
A SSD that big would cost around $720, so the lower tech option sometimes wins.

Apple's using totally non-standard SSD connectors in its products.

 

easier to carry perhaps, but much nicer to slip in a briefcase and not notice the weight. the whole point is YOU DONT NEED a laptop bag for it, maybe just a slip case

 

The MBA fits perfectly in the front compartment of my briefcase (I don't have one but have been looking at the new model for my wife). The ultrathin laptop is a perfect companion to a professional that wants to keep a fairly nice-looking, thin briefcase and still carry a powerful notebook in it. The ultrathin concept being pushed by Intel is the right idea for the executive market. To be honest, I'm not sure how important it is for students or someone who would be carrying their laptops in a messenger bag.

@lead org - for someone who uses his laptop in all lighting conditions in a lot of different locations, backlighting is mandatory. The Thinklight may suffice but I really like backlit keys. I won't own another laptop without it. It was the reason I suggested that my wife wait on the Air, which she has wanted since it was revamped. It was also one of the things that drew me to the X1 until Lenovo messed up on the display selection. Still waiting for them to remedy that or put the X1 in the outlet for $850.

Bronsky

 

Just as few things...

1. The SSD is great but I can't be limited to just 128gb. That makes SSD's very pricey. I like the idea of the hybrid drives that give you both big storage and fast access to commonly used data.

2. Something that hasn't been mentioned is the docking port on the x220. Many companies use those ports. I can tolerate a low resolution screen so long as I can use a full resolution screen at my desk.

3. I've only had one back lit keyboard. I like it but I don't see why the original IBM solution (the light) is any worse. The IBM solution actually has an advantage in that it lights up more than just the keys.

Any thoughts?

 

I never understood why keys need to be lit. People seriously look at the keyboard while typing?

 

I find it very handy when working in the evening when the lights are low. Sure I don't need to see the main keys when my fingers are on the home keys. However, when I'm not typing but surfing/pecking or when I'm trying to find the Print Scrn key it can be handy.

 

Well, here is a high percentage of users that aren't touch typist. That and people use machines in all sorts of lighting conditions.

I'll never understand why people need to ask why people want backlit keyboards.

 

An mSATA SSD only machine would be very limiting in space for some (especially those who are too lazy or don't have an external drive to offload files to). I'm sitting at 8GB free (was 3GB before I cleared out some stuff) on a 500GB Scorpio Black right now. A well-defragged Scorpio Black is quite responsive in most common scenarios.

IMO, the tangible benefits of making a laptop any thinner than 1" suffer from significantly diminishing returns (possibly negative due to the downsides).

As for backlit keyboards, choice would be okay; forced adoption would not.

 

The MBA does have a Thunderbolt port though. With the Apple display, it basically is a docking station (with a monitor built in). In addition, it can do 10 gb/s up and down across two channels. USB 3 can't even touch that for bandwidth, and they don't even have USB 3 on any docking stations. Docking stations are kind of cool but I see them going out of style in favor of Thunderbolt ports. I've always been disappointed with the fact that docks are one brand of laptop only, and even then, they go out of date (series 3, series 2, etc), so I'm looking forward to Thunderbolt for universal docking (minus power, though, but there are power adapters that work with multiple laptop brands too, so it would be cool if you could pair that with a Thunderbolt dock).

I agree. I think the backlit keyboard is basically an aesthetic choice, in that you don't need an LED to be placed at the top of the lid.

 

Problem with MacBook Pro or Air is that they Overheat too much when you do anything gpu or CPU. So unless they manage to overcome the thermal management issue.

 

I doubt high performance is high on the list of requirements for a MBA purchase.

 

Yes. A lot of people don't know how to type.

 

They heat quite a lot even when you're not doing anything "high performance". Comes with the alumin(i)um chasis.

 

You are right about the new port on the Apple (which will also show up on PCs). It does make for a potential dock alternative and I also agree that it has the potential to span across generations (a problem I have had).

 

Quite.

It's the only ultraportable PC, and a full-power ultraportable at that, which can also drive a 2560x1440/1600 display.

I'm sure I'm not the only person that thinks this is an incredibe package, and which fits my needs so perfectly, and I'm surprised the x220's so unique.

(There is the HP2560p but that has an optical drive and is quite a bit heavier and no IPS)

Sony's new Z might be sleeker and lighter but it's crippled by HDMI, and while users complain of the 7mm drive on the x220, the Z has no standard drive space/connector at all.

S