Upgrading to W500 from T60p; worth it?

Alrighty... as the title says, I currently have a T60p that I've had for a couple of months. All in all this machine works fine, but I'm going to have some extra money to burn in the next couple of months and have been considering doing an upgrade to a W500.

My T60p has pretty much become my main computer; I don't even really use the M1730 in my sig that often anymore as the T60p will still do about 90% of my computing tasks. This notebook goes with me everywhere. Work, school, on the road... you name it. I can even acceptably play some newer games with it on lower quality settings.

The main attractions of the W500 are its greatly improved battery life(and the fact I can use the two new 9-cell batteries I have for my T60p), Montevina chipset, and the slightly larger WUXGA resolution. My school classes frequently have me using several applications at once, so having the extra screen real estate helps immensely. The V5700 graphics card would also offer some extra gaming performance(yes, I know it's a workstation card, but it also benchmarks quite higher), and the switchable GPU would also be great for lower idle temps when I'm not doing anything that would require the horsepower.

However, the T60p has the much better 15" Flexview screen, and to be honest I love the 4:3 format and port layout. It still does most of what I would want a 'go anywhere, do anything' notebook to do, but there is a large temptation to get something new for a better measure of 'future-proofing.'

So, has anyone made this particular switch, or any W500 owners willing to chime in on how they like their rigs? Any advice would be pretty helpful, as I am on the fence.

 

I have a WUXGA W500, after a string of Dell W/UXGA equivalents - and have experienced the T60 too. I have been utterly happy with the WUXGA W500. It runs very cool, and after replacing the HDD with a third-party SSD, completely silent. Fan(s) runs only in extra-ordinary occasions (with SSD and integrated gpu). Before purchase, I was worried about reports of the screen being a bit dim - but have found it just fine - but default setting for screen under battery power does needs adjusting up to full brightness. On mains power at night, I dim it one notch down; otherwise always use full brightness. I would prefer the redundancy of having further levels of brightness in case of degradation (as I did with the Dell screens), but in mint condition it is just fine. At top setting, it is a beautiful screen indoors. I had heard and experienced some problems with keyboards, but the one I received is just brilliant. It seems to vary amongst specific examples...but don't know if that is a continuing problem, or whether it is more a case of some old stock in shops having the awful keyboards. I run it 95% of the time on the integrated gpu, but having the dedicated gpu ready on demand is fantastic - and the gpu-switching ability of these machines is as good as it sounds - but restricted to Vista at the moment. To future-proof your purchase, maybe an idea to get a single 4GB ram module, and use 64-bit Vista/Win7.

 

I have the T500, which all in all is pretty much identical to the W500 except for the FireGL card (the T500 has the Radeon equivalent) and the option for a WUXGA screen. You can read my review at the link in my signature.

I would say that it's not the best use of money to upgrade from your T60p to a W500, as there would be no major performance gain. Instead, I would suggest waiting for the next generation, especially if you are not in a rush. The W510 will likely address many issues that people have had with the current generation, and will have other improvements.

Basically, my advice is, if you do not need it now, do not buy it now. There will be even better Thinkpads down the road.

 

Thanks for the info on both viewpoints. I should probably add that I am considering giving the T60p as a gift to a friend who is just about to go off to college, so he can replace his old, dodgy Gateway notebook. As I'm not totally sure when he plans on going off to school(could be as early as January) that does tie in a little bit to when I would be upgrading.

I just read about the new Calpella chipset, and I will admit that it seems pretty impressive. However, I am concerned about the cost of buying a new platform and the fact that there isn't a solid release date(see above). I'm already budgeting in several upgrades into a possible W500 purchase that puts me at about the limit I can really justify on a new computer right now... and I know that won't touch a new Thinkpad(hence me ordering from the outlet rather than buying new).

I am definitely curious as to what issues the current T500/W500 have.Are these hardware or software related, for the most part? I don't see the current design as having any Achilles heels like the T4x GPU issues, but what is there to look out for?

 

It sounds like you really want to buy the w500.

Just a couple of things, are you certain the w500 has greatly improved battery life compared to the t60p? And the extra space gain by the WUXGA resolution on the isn't so great if you are going to increase the font dpi (1920x1080 is tiny on a 15.4 in screen) and considering 1600x1200 = 1.92m vs 1920x1080 = 2.07m pixels, you edaren't really gaining much raw space.

Outside of gaming the biggest attraction would be potential processing increase, but since you didnt state that the t60 was too slow, that's not a reason for you.

It sounds like you just want a new laptop, which is fine, but don't fool yourself into thinking that you need it

 

Thanks for responding... the debate is definitely more than welcomed.

Since the W500 can switch to an IGP its battery life will be significantly better; I'm seeing reviews of the 9-cell running about seven hours or so. On discrete graphics, however... the W500's getting on par to even less time than my T60p. I leave any gaming I do on battery power anyway, so the W500 would have a marked advantage in that category. However, I have two 9-cells, one Ultrabay, and one 6-cell for the T60p already, all of them practically brand new. To be honest if I cart all of those along I have more runtime that I'd realistically use in a day.

As far as the resolution, the W500 is still a 16:10 format, so the resolution is 1920x1200... so 2.3M pixels. A 400K increase from the T60p, although I do have to take into consideration the 4:3 screen has more physical size(I think). I also have to take into account that the T60p has a Flexview screen as well, which is vastly better in terms of quality and viewing angle than what you can normally get now. As I'm pretty much sold on Lenovo, I'm not switching manufacturers.

You are right that one of the major reasons I'd be upgrading would be gaming performance and battery life. Seeing as you have a T60p as well, I'm sure you know what the V5250 is capable of.

I will admit that I'm also thinking about another route; Frankensteining a T61p motherboard into my 15" T60p chassis. While I'm a little leery about the Quadro FX 570M, it actually has performance specs nearly identical to the V5700 that the T500 has. There's other parts I'd have to get, but I already have a C2D T7500 that's sitting here doing nothing. That would put this machine at nearly W500 performance(although with a Santa Rosa chipset versus Montevina) without spending nearly as much as a new notebook. It's been done before, so it's tempting.

 

15.4" WUXGA is 1920X1200 (2.3m pixels). That is a hardware PPI of around 147. Software needs to be configured also (including PPI), and graphical objects are adjustable in all sorts of ways and to varying degrees. The fonts will be the size you want them to be (with the exceptions of a few HD-uncompliant programs). What you will get is deep blacks, clear fonts, and awesome graphics. On the other hand, to put the WUXGA in perspective, it is only incrementally (around 20%) higher density than the WSXGA+ option - and the corresponding software-hardware-use matching/configuring problems/advantages/disadvantages are only incrementally different (by 20%).

The old standard-ratio 15" UXGA screen is closer in PPI to 15.4" WSXGA+ than the 15.4" WUXGA. Only about 5 % more PPI. The respective PPI's are about 128 for the 15.4" WSXGA+, 133 for the 15" UXGA, and 147 for the 15.4" WUXGA. So moving from the 15" UXGA to the 15.4" WUXGA is a much bigger change. The 15" UXGA is about the same height and PPI of the 17" WUXGA.

 

I think there lies your answer.

 

In terms of real estate you might like that 1900 x 1200 screen, but other than that, it's a very lackluster screen, which you may notice even more considering the one you have currently. It will look like a step down.

If you do get the W500, stick with the WSXGA+ or swap the screen for something better.

 

I was thinking of doing exactly that a couple of years ago, but basically, the conclusion was to abandon the idea for a number of reasons, e.g. motherboard layout and location of ports different, nothing would fit right, there would have been BIOS issues, etc.

Are you thinking about of doing this to retain your IPS Flexview screen? That was my sole reason, and for the same reason, I skipped the entire T61/p series, and instead put the highest possible CPU that the T60p took, which was the Merom T7600 Core 2 Duo 2.33GHz 4MB L2, coming from the Yonah and at 32-bit only, T2600 Core Duo 2.16GHz 2MB L2. I also put an Atheros 802.11n mini PCIe card in, and I was good to go.

I don't know if you'd consider something like that. The screen will be very disappointing. I got the W700, solely for the bright WUXGA screen, and color calibrator, which turned out to be very useful. The W500 does not have that option unfortunately, but maybe you're not as picky about the LCD.

I hope this helps a bit.

 

Many thanks go out for everyone for some good solid advice. This is especially great timing as I just happened upon a bit of a windfall and now have enough money to buy a W500.

However, I have decided against it. As has been noted, the T60p does pretty much 90% of what I use a notebook for, and a W500 would only provide a somewhat decent increase in gaming performance. That said, a T60p will play stuff like Bioshock, Far Cry 2, and Fallout 3, albeit at lowish settings... so it can definitely game.

So... I'm going to take a significantly less amount of money and throw it at some accessories and upgrades for the T60p. So... any ideas for T60p upgrades?

 

If you've got 3GB of memory and a 7200RPM drive, there's nothing really left to upgrade on it.

 

How much RAM do you have? Get 3GB, which maxes the T60p out. Make sure it is DDR2 with 667Mhz FSB. An SSD. See previous posts. A wireless card that supports 802.11n. If you care about wireless N, that is. You also need an N router. Maybe extend your warranty if you're still within warranty. I see you have an ATI FireGL V5250, which means you got one of the last T60p's.

 

Yep, that is the case. 3GB and a 320GB 7200RPM drive. Thinking about throwing a 500GB drive into the Ultrabay for some more storage space, but I have only used about half of my 320... including the same mix of games I've got on my M1730.

As above, I do have 3GB in my T60; all PC5300. Actually, the T60p has the name-brand G.Skill RAM while the M1730 limps along with the Feebay special stuff... haha.

I actually didn't realize the T60p supports 802.11n, and I have a capable router. I'm assuming there's a whitelist like there is on the T4x Thinkpads... what part number would I be looking at? I'm thinking I'd have to add a third antenna; any problems with routing that through the palmrest?

Admittedly I Frankensteined my setup together as this used to be a standard T60. I found a V5250 motherboard for a complete steal off of Feebay, and it works as advertised. The board appears to be NOS, as there's no machine type number programmed into it. So, no warranty. I still have my X1400 board in storage just in case this one goes bad, just in case.

 

Consider upgrading to 1 or even 2 SSD's. Nothing beats that upgrade!

 

Hm... honestly, SSDs aren't really a good fit for me just yet. I need quite a bit of capacity as I do tend to carry around copious amounts of games, music, and some videos. I do know that there are 512GB 2.5" SSDs at least theoretically out on the market, but since I can't find a price I'm assuming they're ultra expensive. My current 320GB 7200RPM HDD coupled with a 5400RPM 500GB for secondary storage would probably suit my speed needs just fine without breaking the bank. Once I can get a 500+GB SSD for under $250 or so, I'd definitely be breaking out the wallet.

 

I guess it depends on what you can afford; but I would think just upgrading your prsent notebook in the meantime will save a bucket load. But you could replace your present "320GB 7200RPM HDD coupled with a 5400RPM 500GB (=820GB total) for secondary storage" with one of several excellent reasonable (to me)-price 250GB SSD's coupled with a 5400rpm 640GB WD Scorpio Blue (=910GB total) - with huge performance increase as well as more storage.
You save later by using the SSD later in your eventual new notebook (1st or 2nd drive, depending on how prices and sizes go). Meanwhile you have a notebook that performs like a rocket. Anyway, for me I went from a 7200rpm HDD as main drive to a SSD and performance is totally different. Like having a new computer - but cheaper....

 

Cool. Ok, so you are comfortable with taking the T60p apart, and with upgrades on the inside?

If so, you can install a mini-PCIe card from Atheros (a.k.a. "Thinkpad") 11a/b/g/n (AR5008X is the one I have in my T60p). Unless you're comfortable modifying your BIOS, I don't know of another internal N card you could use that's on the "white list". I did the same thing when I was in your situation a few years back. Do you have a WWAN card that you're not using? I did, and that's where my third antenna came from. If you don't have a WWAN (Verizon or AT&T, which Lenovo still calls Cingular ), you'd have to get a third antenna from another system, or buy one. I've seen them on ebay. Sometimes in sets of three.

Alternatively, you can just buy an 802.11n USB stick. That would be a lot easier, and faster. I would get one from the same company that made your N router.

Good luck.

 

i have both the w500 and the t60p, and the performance difference in most apps including cad are not that great. While, the T60p have the superiority in LCD quality, it does fall behind in the heat management department, since the T7xxx and the ATI FireGL GPU are quite copious in terms of heat ouptut.

 

If I try playing any games on mine it last for about 15 minutes before locking up. It's still great for everything but gaming. I fear in upgrading now I'll just be disappointed with the screen in comparison.

As for upgrades I added a second hard drive to mine by taking advantage of the enhanced bay. You can also upgrade to an Intel T7600 but that won't be cheap.

 

Interesting... you might want to try blowing out the vents on your T60... these machines run at the edge of their thermal capacity as it is, and any sort of blockages or dust can easily push the system to thermal shutdown levels. I'd try that before considering an upgrade. A new fan might also be in order, if you don't mind opening up the system.

Since we both own big beasty gaming rigs, they can be a pain to really be mobile with them. I definitely don't get the quality or speed out of Fallout 3 or Far Cry 2 that I do on my M1730(heck, just check out my benchmark scores), but it's nice to have a more portable machine that'll play those titles.

I'd also admit that a T7600 would be really nice, but I can't really justify it. The gains from bumping up from a T7200 aren't that great when considering the cost. Especially when I've got an X9000 and dual 8800Ms when I have to do some serious gaming/crunching.

 

My system is definitely clean. I'm a bit anal when it comes to that. I've also had more heat related issues since I installed Windows 7. tpfancontrol worked great when I was running XP and did an excellent job of keeping the system cool at all times. I haven't tried to make it work with Windows 7 yet.

Regarding the M1730 I had the same setup just with a x7900 instead. Loved the system except for the fingerprints...lol.

 

I have the T7600, because it was the fastest I could get for the T60p. I came from a T2600, though, and I wanted 64-bit, and also ended up with double the L2 cache, and a probably a few new instructions. You already have all of that in the T7200 x64 CPU, so I don't know that going up 2 notches (T7400...T7600) will make any difference.

I'd get an SSD, and more specifically, the Intel 25-M Generation 2 and run Windows 7. It has several SSD benefits, albeit not anything night and day different.