Very disappointed with the T60's keyboard. Plus other gripes.

EDIT: I've gotten used to the keyboard (or it has "broken in") and now I'm pretty happy with it.

I'm a long-time thinkpad owner - had the 770E, 770Z, X20, T23 and currently a semi-dead T42. I ordered and just received a T60 WSGXA+ widescreen (87445BU). I literally unboxed the thing an hour ago.

The keyboard is a complete and total let-down. It has the quality of a keyboard from a $600 toshiba. I have the T42 sitting right next to the T60 doing a comparison.

The T42 keys are smooth, high quality plastic and perfectly curved. Pressing one, the key goes down with a solid feel, with just a touch of firm dampening at then end of the travel.

The T60 keys are rough, the plastic feels cheap. Just touching the thing is like fingernails on chalk. They feel springy - pressing one makes an unpleasant clack, with no firm dampening at the end.

Other tactile gripes - The metal power button feels sharp on the edge. The "access ibm" button (not that I use it) looks like it was painted with blotchy krylon metal-flake paint. The trackpad (I don't use it normally) is smaller than the T42's, and where it meets the case is sharp feeling (feels more integrated and smooth on the T42).

The screen seems nice, but I don't think widescreen aspect ratio is for me. I sit sort of close to the screen and it seems when I'm looking at one area of the screen, an area far from that point is dim, and I have to move my head to see that other area in full brightness. I don't know if that sentence makes any sense What I'm saying is parts of the screen are dim depending on the position of your head. Maybe this is a function of a wider screen, but my 20" dell moniter does not exihibit this behavior. Another thing about the 10:1 is its about 3/4-1" shorter than the 15.1 4:3 screen.

As far as good things about it... hmmm. The track point seems pretty much the same, which is good. It seems a bit quieter than the T42, though the idle noise is a bit higher pitched. The lid is thinner and the whole thing is maybe about a couple of millimeters thinner than the T42.

All in all I'm quite dissatisfied. I'm probably going the send the thing back. I recommend anyone considering one of these to try one out in person before ordering.

 

a friend just came buy with her lattitude D620. I will concede the T60's keyboard is still better than the dell's.

But my friend also noticed right away how cheap the T60 feels. And the weird screen dimness issue.

 

I've also got a T60 widescreen that I've had for a couple of days. The keyboard definitely isn't anything special. I can live with it though as I don't use my laptop for major typing chores.

The screen (SXGA+) is adequately bright. There are 2 dimmer areas on the sides at about 4 and 8 o'clock (about 1-2 inches up from the corners). Also the screen has some MAJOR light leakage coming from below the bottom bezel. The screen is decent in most situations though and the extra resolution is great.

I'm sick of looking for a new notebook though. I've been looking for a few months, bought a Toshiba M115-3094 from BB then returned it unopened. Unless I get the urge to try a macbook or MBP, I think this is it for now.

 

The thinkpad t60's keyboard is superior, as evidenced by abaxter's review on this site, which confirmed that the t60 indeed has the best keyboard and anyone who thinks otherwise is either not well versed in the area of keyboard science or being sarcastic.

 

Its better than almost any other notebook out right now, but they don't appear to be as good as they once were. That said, they have 3 versions out there for the thinkpads, being NMB, ALPS, and Chicony. All of those have their own special feel to them. Chicony while feeling a bit looser, also has one of the fastest key presses allowing for VERY fast typing. NMB and ALPS tend to give more solid precise clicks and throws. All depends on what a person likes in a keyboard.

 

How do you tell the difference between the three keyboards?

EDIT: Nevermind, I just stumbled upon a post with the answer to my question. It looks like I have the NMB keyboard on my Z61m.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=1713433&postcount=8

 

mliu, that's a strong statement. Even though a majority of users may think that ThinkPad keyboards are superior (I think so myself), it doesn't mean that everyone has to agree. Sorry that you are disappointed by your T60, pmc123.

 

pmc123 & beerbrat,

Out of curiosity what part numbers are your keyboards and screens? You can goto Lenovo.com>Support & Downloads>Parts Information>Parts Lookup>Detect & Continue.

Please list the FRU part numbers for your keyboards and displays. I just got my Z61M and I have:

13N7116 (Samsung 15.4 WSXGA+ LCD)
39T0958 (NMB Keyboard)

Both seem quite good. As dietcokefiend stated, there are 3 different keyboads, so I'm curious to know which model you have. Also, I know that for the Z-series at least there is both a Samsung and LG/Philips WSXGA+ screen. My Z61M has the Samsung while my buddy whose identical machine shipped a couple of days before mine has the LG/Philips screen. I haven't seen his machine in person yet, but I'd like to compare them side-by-side at some point.

 

My keyboard is an ALPS (39T0988)

My display is either 42T0328 or 42T6590 (not sure which is the actual panel)

My system is a 8741-4GU which is the lowest spec T60ws with T7200/x1400/SXGA+

 

Thanks for all your comments.

I have the NMB keyboard.

This keyboard is starting to grow on me. I hated it at first. Maybe it just needed to be "broken in", because it is starting to feel like the T42 keyboard. Or maybe all the food crumbs in the T42's keyboard gave it an "enhanced" feel. The texture and the curvature of the keys are definitely different. I may be just being over sensitive, but I'm a software developer so I'm really particular about my keyboard.

The screen is annoying me more and more though. When you are looking dead center, it is very bright (actually a bit too bright on max brightness), but above and below dead center are much dimmer. If you move your head up, then it is bright at the down, dimmer below.

 

You have the Samsung panel...it's actually FRU #42T0329 (not 328).

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-66977

I have the Samsung panel in my Z61M and I think it's quite good. The Z61M uses a different FRU number, but I'm not sure if the panels are different or not.

 

Hmmm...the NMB is considered by most to be the best of the 3 keyboards. Maybe it'll just take some more getting used to. I've never owned a Thinkpad before, but my NMB is certainly better than the keyboard in my last Toshiba laptop.

What screen FRU# do you have?

 

I see two FRUs listed, one for the "panel" and one for the "display":

MFG/FRU
display: 42T0328/42T0329
panel: 42T6598/0000000

so this is the samsung you mentioned above? Perhaps mine is faulty.

 

Yep...the 42T0329 is the Samsung screen. Like I said, I have a 15.4" WSXGA+ Samsung screen in my Z61M and it seems pretty good to me. I don't know if it's identical to the one used in the T-series though, as they use different part numbers. I know they're both listed as 200-nit on the Lenovo tabook.pdf, so I would think that they're the same.

I definitely have to have it open at just the right angle, but it seems as good or better than any matte laptop screen I've used in the past. The bottom left and right corners are slightly dimmer than the center if your eyes are aligned with the center of the screen. This is only because you are viewing the corners at a slight angle on the wide 15.4" screen. Changing the angle and looking at those portions of the screen does brighten them up slightly since you are now viewing them dead-on. It's not a matter of uneven backlighting, but a matter of viewing angle limitations. I have not seen a matte LCD screen on a laptop that didn't have these limitations to a degree and it will obviously be more pronounced with wider displays, as the edges will be viewed at a larger angle than on a smaller screen.

It would be hard to say if your screen is defective without comparing it to another. Mine's definitely not perfect, and viewing angles could be better, but like I said, I certainly don't consider it worse on my Thinkpad than on any other laptop I've owned/used. I'll compare my Samsung display to my friend's LG/Philips display on his otherwise identical Z61M. He's been out of town for the holidays and his brand new Thinkpad is waiting for him in his apartment's leasing office.

 

Interesting how you're comparing T42 with T60. I have both, except my T60 is not widescreen but rather 15" Flexview (IPS) just like my T42. Don't give up on T60, just get 15" instead of WS. My new T60's screen is much better than T42 Flexview. One thing for sure, you need to get Omega ATI drivers (free at omegadrivers.net)

As a long time user of Thinkpads myself (600x, T23, T42, T60), I can tell you that T60 is their new shiny star! The build quality is so much better. For example, yesterday I had laptop closed on the floor and my 21 month old daughter (approx 27 pounds) decided to stand on it and did some jumping - no problem!!! The frame/plastic padding around the screen by far superior in comparison to my T42. The DVDR eject button is more recessed, I always had problem w/T42 opening the drive by accidentally hitting it on a side. You have USB drives on both sides of the laptop, very conveniet. CPU heat pipe comes out from the upper left corner allowing better circulation from two places. AC power plug is fatter and sturdier. Of course, performance improvement is due to a "next gen" guts such as C2D, 100GB 7k2 hd, better video card, wifi card, etc. My ONLY gripe is a keyboard. My T42 has NMB which I love its soft touch and non-clicky mechanism. Now, I have Chicony keyboard w/T60 which is OK, but mechanism is TOO clicky. As it was mentioned before its more useful during the fast typing due to an audible feedback. I'm just more used to a soft touch and quieter keyboard. I think it was mentioned before that you can no longer order NMB as a replacement; the only options are ALPS or Chicony from Lenovo parts ordering department. I'm actually thinking about buying ALPS to see if I like it better.

 

Hi twister,
Thanks for your reply. I think you are right. The 15" IPS is probably the way to go. I'm amazed your T60 withstood such abuse!! That is how my X20 died - someone stepped on it. (well, ok, I stepped on it ) Hadn't noticed the recessed eject button, but you are right! The T42 dvd tray did open accidentally all the time. Hopefully lenovo will let me exchange it.
Regards
pmc

 

Not sure about full exchange, but maybe with some restocking fee? Definitely go for 15" IPS, not 14". I have T60 w/14" at work, and would not recommend you as your "after-work" machine for movies, web browsing, or picture viewing.

 

Though I have only had a my T61p for but a few days, I am quite satisfied with the keyboard. I was skeptical at first about all the good news about the keyboards, because I tend to think that people think things are better than they are, but the keyboard is phenomenal, I have an NMB, by the way. I type much faster than on my ASUS W3V, which I thought had a great keyboard, but nothing really compares to this keyboard. As far as the other gripes, my T61p actually shut off on me for no reason, but I am suspecting that it overheated due to me using it on my bed with little ventilation playing a game, Bioshock.

 

I hesistate to respond since the mods get mad at reviving such an old thread. You should never user your machine on a soft surface like a bed, sofa etc. Also make sure you don't have the dreaded 2 DIMM issue. This is when 2 memory modules are used and you are running a 3D intensive app, like a game and the machine shutsoff or BSOD. The issue is spoken about in great detail and a resolution was found. Check out the official Lenovo fourms and this thread in particular.