W701 vs 8740w - why did you buy the W701?

A question to buyers of the W701's. If you looked at the 8740w as potential competition, what made you buy the W701? Any regrets?

 

a) better keyboard
b) 2 hdd bays
c) liked chassis layout more overall (ports, etc)
d) better speakers
e) open parts/service guides info available
f) better cooling system design

no regrets

 

I use to have HP nx8220 for a couple of years - it was good but not great. Then I moved to x200s - the greatest small laptop I think.
So... the W701 (note - with the embedded calibrator and tablet) was no brainer when it came to choose between Lenovo and HP

 

I meant that you can buy any part number directly from Lenovo parts webshop.

 

Was the Dell Precision M6500 not an option when you considered the W701 or 8740w?

 

a) I doubt it. The non-backlit keyboard of 8740w is far less flexible than that of the W701. It's down to your personal likes/dislikes but the overall quality of the keyboard goes to the HP (I own one but also am a 10-years long TP user and typing this on a W510, lol). Notebookcheck is very biased towards the ThinkPads but even they rate the W701 kb as 82% vs 92-94% for the Elitebooks.

b) true, if you really need two bays.
c) very personal, I liked the 8740w ports layout more.
d) not so sure, checked both and didn't find much difference, both are mediocre at best.
e) Here I don't agree at all, there are very detailed guides available and the DIY part of the Elitebooks rocks. To replace the CPU and GPU takes less than 5 min for an average rookie.
f) How did you check that? My 8740w always stays under 85C on both CPU(840QM) and GPU(M7820 with GDDR5) under Furmark+Prime95 (ambient 26-27c). In fact, if I had the control over the fan and let it hit the max burst at 75C instead of 85C as set in the BIOS- the machine would never even reach 80C. The cooling potential is enormous, almost like in my M17X.

I like both ThinkPads and ELitebooks, but did go for the later this time around simply because I really am into good screens and the 30-IPS panel is just perfect and, IMHO is way better than even a RGB LED TN offered by Dell in M17X and M6500.

My 2 cents of course, so far no regrets on the Elitebook...

 

if 8740w has DC2 screen, it definitely surpasses W701's one

 

Technically, it's about 400$ more expensive than a RGB LED TN option offered by Lenovo. But yes, you're right.

 

I have answered first question, "what made you (e.g. me) buy W701 instead of 8740w"
I believe I can judge for myself, what I deem better for myself or not.

I liked keyboard on W701 more. I dislike flat keyboard. Maybe W701's flexes somewhat, but it didn't enough to annoy me (maybe I don't press too hard when typing, not sure).
I liked speakers on W701 more. They both lack bass, but W701 speakers have better freq separation and cleaner sound.
W701 has two separate fans, for CPU and GPU. Elitebook have only one common fan. Therefore even on full CPU & GPU load temperature never went above 75 for me and fans stayed very quiet, perceivably more quiet than on HP's. That also influenced my decision.
With parts & DIY its not only down do guides. How easy to actually purchase parts is another factor for me.

I don't doubt greatness of IPS screen, however at price of 8740w equipped with it and all above personal preferences... Well, still W701 was decided for me.

 

Just a couple of questions if you don't mind (when I ordered my w701, the Dream Color panel was not offered in the IPS flavour, as far as I remember):

1. Has the HP's Dream Color display a LED backlight?
2. How often do you (have to) calibrate the display?
3. How large is the difference between the factory provided ICC profile and the one obtained after calibration?

PS
OK, there is a flaw in the w701: the keyboard flex (looks like they trade FlexView for FlexType technology... )

 

I didn't see DC2 available lately. I did read some (rumors?) that LG lost patent lawsuit to AUO and was forced to stop sales of some panels, particular IPS model included...

 

can w701 run 4 independent monitors with eyefinity like the 8740w?

 

maximum of 2 external LCDs. Eyefinity is only limited to certain ATI GPU equipped laptop. W70x uses Nvidia GPU.

 

in that case, 8740w wins hands down.

 

... if running 4 external monitors is a key feature part for you, then yes, certainly

(now this thread needs only couple of Dell M6500 owners to become 97.95% irrelevant to original question )

 

Thanks. Some interesting comments so far.

I'm wondering whether I should look at the W701 - the digitiser does interest me a good deal - to partially make up the numbers for the M6500 Covets that I've got rid of*. I only have one 8740w at the moment, and I am happy with it - thermal characteristics / stability are good, it's very versatile in terms of options, and it pretty much does what I expect of it - and above all, the buying experience was far better than Dell. But the W701 does bring a little more to the table. Any replacement would end up being wholesale, i.e. all-W701, or all-8740w after an evaluation period.

The only major concern with the W701 is that I'd be getting performance that I had at the start of this year. The Dell and the HP have both received refreshes if I'm buying now, whereas the W701 still packs the 920xm and the 3800M.

I'd also be interested to see if the comedy colours / ridiculous default profiles of the Covet could be avoided with the Lenovo setup since I could never get it looking quite right even with a calibrator.

After the Dell, the HP is definitely a stylistic disappointment - and combined with the fact that my daily carry has taken a huge turn for the uglier with the X201T, I figure that especially in terms of a mobile workstation - which I'm not going to carry around with me every day - yet another 80's carbuncle in the vein of the W701 won't be a big deal.

In terms of my use, it will be solely as a mobile workstation, i.e. a lugged power machine. I won't - although a single 30" + internal is a possibility - generally speaking be using it as a docked unit, although I will buy docks to sit them on when not in use.

So generally I'm looking for reasons one way or another. I might post a similar thread in the HP subforum - Carry on please.

Also, just one very minor functional question since the UK Lenovo site is out of date and the link to the specs was dead when I last clicked - does the W701 have Thinklight?

*Primarily a combo of a lemon / customer service & account management issue. I will not be buying new machines from Dell for a long time.

 

I does have 2 thinklight leds...

As for colors - RGB LED panel on W701 is the same as on M6500 (LTN171CT08)
To my experience, calibrators never work well with RGB LED backlight - they just can not handle very narrow-spectral light source. This screws their white balance calculation. Not to mention that perception of far red varies greatly from person to person.
That's why I've personally found that with RGB LED it works best when you calibrate white point manually, based on how you see it (comparing with white sheet of paper works well).

However another problem is regardless of how you calibrate, most "usual" software like Windows GUI, web browsers, etc will ignore color profiles and will pump sRGB-intended content to wide gamut, making everything ridiculously oversaturated.

It became perfect in usability when I've found how to switch colour temperature to coolest and sRGB mode, using panel own built-in color transform (Lenovo have hidden it deep inside Advanced Display Settings).

 

Interesting. Thanks

 

Yes, the IPS has a RGB LED backlight.
You don't need to calibrate it at all. That's why I'm still debating on whether to buy the HP calibrating tool, or leave it as is. There's no color oversaturation as on my M17X, you can see the pics in the reviews section.

On a side note, performance wise, if you don't need CUDA, M7820 wins hands down. FX2800M/FX3800M is almost 2 year old, based on an even older desktop chip.
Initially, I wanted a W701, and could get one with a whopping 40% off here in Canada. But the lack of IPS screen, 840QM and an ATI GPU, made me switch.


@Ingvarr,
Regarding the temps - could you please run the latest Furmark (stability test) + Prime95 and post a screenshot of those with the temps monitor in the background? Also, what's the ambient temp?
I find it hard to believe that your temps stay under 75C during serious load, that's for the gaming notebooks league. And it doesn't matter how many fans you got, it's the combination of pipes, HS's, fans, vents, etc.
If what you claim is true, - kudos!

 

No idea about ambient temp, but it's a room and I am not freezing, so I would assume no less than 22C. Basically temperature raises till fan awakens from slumber, then it stays stable with fan being slightly more audible then on idle.

You sound like "gaming notebook" is higher class than enterprise workstation. But it's not.
I didn't say it's only the number of fans, the whole cooling system design on W701 is just better overall. And surely with two fans of no smaller size it's easier to achieve better cooling, fans will be able to adjust independently and also turn slower, producing less noise overall for same airflow/cooling amount.

 

it would be best that the dreamcolour panel can be transposed to the W701, wouldn't that be match made in heaven.

 

Very good temps! I can achieve the same with the fan @ max and quite audible. What's your room temp?

 

And coupled with the latest GPU (FX5000M/M7820), - I'd switch in a second

 

You can upgrade to latest GPU as long as it MXM 3.0 type B (top limit on cooling is about 100W TDP). I just see no need to waste effort/money ATM, as I am still satisfied with 2800M and next gen ATI should be around the corner in near future.

As for IPS screen - alas, can't have everything I guess. Especially considering the fact even HP stopped offering it ATM at new laptops. I wonder how much of this patent lawsuits stuff are true.

 

This is why I like forums

I have similar observations...

Looks like a good display, indeed! Nevertheless - even the best EIZOs require calibration from time to time.

 

This is not true. I've ordered the 8740w of my sig. with a DreamColor screen on september 9. Since you're from UK, you have the chance of a pre-configured model with a DreamColor screen, even with a 840QM processor with 16G RAM and Quadro FX3800M ( LINK). However this model has not backlit keyboard (only one chinese pre-configured model it has so far), but you can benefit from a 2nd USB 3.0 port (w701 only has 1 USB 3.0 port). Backlit kb. is also available when CTO (see my sig.)

Also I've read the Lenovo propaganda, I think that the comparison with other mobile workstations it's not fair at all. They're comparing a 2009/2010 workstation (w701) with 2 2008 models from HP (8730w) and Dell (M6400). Also they had not remarked (for own interests, of course) that the 8730w DreamColor screen it has 300 nit brightness (and a 800:1 typical contrast ratio, REAL not dynamic). As a drawback, all these goodies with HP have an extremely high price, if you're european like me (but you get what you pay for, IMHO). DreamColor 2 screen has 800:1 typical contrast ratio and only 210 nits brightness (but I think the RGB LED Edge technology it's more efficient than the normal RGB LED, hence the "low" brightness).

I think the 8740w is a a bit thinner than the w701, because of the lack of a 3rd drive bay probably. The weight should be less too, since the 8740w starts at 3.57Kg. Is the lack of a 3rd drive bay a fault? It may be or not. If you don't use almost never your CD's and DVD's, you're fine with an external drive (like me). IMHO, it's more future-proof than the internal one if you buy a really good drive (an external USB 3.0 Blu-ray burner, for example).

Anyway, you're happy with your w701, Aikimox is happy with his 8740w (and I will too ) For me it's not worth the digitizer (and I don't need at all) but for some people like you it may be.

Feel free to participate in our owners' lounge too It's good there is a discussion between top notch mobile workstations , because at last, the consumer WINS (he has an idea which laptop is more suitable for his needs). I've written a post with a comparison at glance between M6500 and 8740w (pro's and con's for each). If you give me the enough feedback about the w701, I could write a 2nd comparison post for both 8740w and w701

 

Yes, you can upgrade, but will need a BIOS support to make the cards work, so you'll have to wait till Lenovo officially adds it. Also, the point is in paying less to have more. M7820 is ~450$ cheaper than FX2800M. It's a newer tech and offers DX11 support.
But I agree, 2800M should be enough for most tasks and games.

 

You don't need any kind of "BIOS support", save for MXM video card support, that is already here. If you mean anti-blacklist measures, after digging through W701 BIOS code I haven't found any. Or, to be more precise, there are appear to be locks on Quadros to prevent them from working(or somehow limit them) on non-Lenovo laptops, but no checks to "prevent unautorized card". As long as videocard BIOS itself is unlocked, it should work...

I think you are missing the vital point that DreamColor is not IPS, but DreamColor 2 is?

No, thanks. I think that coming into particular brand owner forum and starting advocating for another brand is not a very good taste Especially when I didn't really own 8740w for any significant amount of time.

 

This is very interesting if true! I'll look into it for more details. Would really like to upgrade to a gaming card at some point.

 

You have not seen DC2 screens for the 8740w anymore because HP renamed them to "DC". As simple as that. In fact, the DreamColor screen for the 8740w is IPS (30-bit color accuracy at most), DreamColor 2 screen for the 8540w (here, HP keeps the new name) is IPS too, and only the old DreamColor screen for the 87 30w is an 8-bit TN panel, like the Dell M6400/6500 and Lenovo W701.

 

I know that 8740w DC and DC2 screens are (or were?) different part numbers.

 

There is no DC2 screen for the 8740w. I explained that before, the "DC2" screen is for the 8540w, and the "DC" screen for the 8740w. Anyway, yes, they're different P/N (a 17" screen for the 8740w vs. a 15.6" screen for the 8540w).

However, HP names the DC screen internally as 'DC2' and people use the 'DC2' term in order to distinguish between the old DreamColor screen ("DC1", 8730w) and the new one ("DC2", 8740w).

 

That was my main point. As long as you sure that you getting this "DC2" part when you order "DreamColor" on the website its fine I guess (because this spring there definitely was separate "DreamColor 2" option for 8740w, and I was a bit alarmed when it disappeared).

 

After close examination of the W701 cooling, I agree - it has more potential. However, as of today, we have an option to manually control the fan in the HP! So I did a few benches and gaming runs and the results were amazing!
The fan get's quite loud at max speed, but when gaming it doesn't really matter
What I didn't like about the Lenovo, is the difficulty to get to the CPU/GPU. Even Dell did a better/easier job there with AW series, and people are still complaining.
Other than that - W701 is a beast! Enjoy!

 

I don't enjoy gaming with fan buzzing on max speed in background, that's one of the reasons I switched from X505 and also decided against alienware/sager.
What about difficulty to get to CPU/GPU? You have to remove palm rest, keyboard and speaker cover - that's basically all.

 

It's still more work than with 8740w, which is perfect for DIY. There's so much room round the HS and pipes that I'm thinking of a cooling overhaul project already. It's just begging to be done, even though the temps are under control.

 

I don't see how it being particularly more work, especially considering the fact you don't need to replace GPU or CPU weekly.
And best that it does not require overhaul

 

Well, you said it yourself, it's a barebone/base for customization. You also mentioned GPU upgrades. Assuming, you're into the 'do it yourself' thingy and like tinkering with the system - GPU/CPU thermal compounds are the first to get replaced. And it takes a few times to make a perfect job, trying different pastes and pads. This alone would be painful. You don't do it often, true, but I always do it when getting a new system. And it would make me a bit frustrated to have to work hard just to try 2-3 compounds.
Also, as I said, the system doesn't require overhauls, but it's almost a sin not to explore the possibilities. At least, that's what the enthusiastic part of me will say. I'd love to add some copper shims and heatspreaders to lower the temps by 5-10C. Next thing I plan to do is land a 940XM and MR6870(when it's available) in there. 940XM will then be OC'ed with ThrottleStop to the levels of the desktop i7-975 @ stock clocks That's why the overhaul, basically.

 

Sorry, but it sounds like you have no idea how easy its actually to get access to mainboard in on W701... "Work hard"? Please... Its only one additional component to remove (speaker cover) from top DIMM slots, and these are even *customer*-replaceable.

 

Guess, I exaggerated with definitions. Let's say - harder. I may have a tiny idea. I've been supporting TPs from y2k, heh. Currently I don't have a W701 in my reach, but the maintenance guide gives me some vague picture
Again, if you want to remain neutral - W701 is harder to disassemble than 8740w, at least from number and difficulty of manipulations standpoint.
Same as W701 is more quiet and cool running at stock, regardless of me saying - I don't care about the fan noise and don't consider it a problem.

 

I1 pro is the reasonable price solution.

 

I could not find spare part of LTN171CT08( 17.1 RGB LED) available on ebay, but LP171WU5(17.1 DC1 Screen) is easier to get at damn average price.

 

Not LTN171CT08, but LTN170CT08-L01, Lenovo P/N 42T0787.

Also take note that you need specifically LTN170CT08-L01 (Lenovo-intended submodel)
There is also LTN170CT08-D01 (for Dell Precision M6xxx) and LTN170CT08-G01 (must be HP by process of elimination)
They all exactly the same panel, but use different and incompatible backlight connectors.
Using different model could easely damage the panel circuitry, when, say, connector fits but actual pin layout is very different.

LP171WU5 will not work in W701 due to same issue (non-compatible LED backlight connector). Or, to be precise, it could theoretically work in W701, but will require a custom cable.

 

I've tossed up the pros and cons, and decided to continue the HP route - just confirmed an order for more 8740w's.

The inbuilt calibration is a nice feature, but I already own calibrators. The digitiser was something I would really like, but it's not a must-have by any means - while the W701 panel is something I don't feel that comfortable about, and the 'previous-tech' nature of the current range is a bit of a perceived problem. So basically spec concerns crowded out the 'nice to have' advantages.

 

Wish you receive your dream one soon.

 

Thank you for the panel model confirmation, although this panel model is not available for purchase.

 

Its available for purchase from Lenovo parts online store. Quite pricey there though.

 

It's a pity Lenovo doesn't offer ATI FirePro and IPS screens for W series. I'd be all over it in a heart beat.

 

Well... makes you wonder if lenovo has stuck with Nvidia in anticipation of the Quadro 5000m. Wasn't it established that the w701 appears to have slightly better cooling?

Of course the IPS thing is a shame... but they do have the double screen going for them.

then again external screens are totally not all they're cracked up to be, I bet you could run one off of USB power with a pc-104 vga board.