Welcome the latest member to the Lenovo family, the V series o.O

It's just crazy what Lenovo is doing. They decide to axe the SL and R series in place of the L series. The U1 hybrid is around the corner, and now we have the new 14 inch "V" series.

Get your V series here. It's super expensive, considering it comes with just a Core i3, and it belongs in the IdeaPad line.
I absolutely love my thinkpad, and Lenovo's build quality and awesome customer service, I'm just bewildered at what they're doing to their lineup lately.

 

Well at least they've deferred from glossy to aluminum. They're calling it a laptop for 'small business users'....wonder what other line of laptops they make for that category

 

I just hope they don't replace the T series with the V series as they did the R series with the L series. I hope they are not phasing out the ThinkPad line bit by bit!

 

I sincerely hope not. I really hope they aren't watering down their product lineup.

 

The V-series is in the IdeaPad range, not the Thinkpad family. It's sort of the consumer laptop for those who prefer more clean and professional, business-like looks. Definitely seems to be a ripoff for what you get though...

 

Lenovo could never get rid of the T or X series. If they did it would just be a simple (and rather unnecessary) rebranding.

 

Well, see here is the problem. The L series remains within the ThinkPad line but is closer to the IdeaPad lineup than the original ThinkPad lineup. So, as this is pure speculation, what if the V series becomes (or is) a premium IdeaPad-line representative and is bumped up closer to the ThinkPad line thereby blurring the two lines even more? I sure hope as Talin says that the core ThinkPad lineup remains the same across the 12", 14" and 15" screen sizes and form factors.

 

But it is not called a Thinkpad so it doesn't blur anything...

The issue with the Edge/L series is that they are CALLED Thinkpads.

Edit:

Did anyone read the Features page?

Under Data Encryption:
"Bio Excess provides a simple and reliable way to quickly encrypt or decrypt files, switch accounts, manage passwords and more. It's worry-free security and peace of mind."

Bio Excess...haha.

Under Fast, dynamic graphics:
"Creating attention-getting presentations and marketing materials to lure new clients and keep existing ones is much easier with the right tools. Select V Series laptops feature NVIDIA GeForce switchable graphics, speedy DDR3 memory and plenty of storage."

I hate it when companies imply the discrete graphics is needed for presentations or software apps that no casual user is going to really use :|. Pretty disingenuous.

 

Yeah I wouldn't touch an Ideapad until they massively improve the quality and features. More sh!t low resolution screens with this one, yay!

 

Discrete, you mean?

I don't know, but I feel that the L-series is a necessary part of the Thinkpad family, even if it compares unfavorably to the T- and X-series. There are so many budget computer options out there, including those from Dell and HP, that Lenovo has to add that family in order to stay competitive in the low-price bracket.

Canceling the SL- and R-series in favor of the L-series also makes sense, since the R-series has morphed into a product that is little different - in price and features - from the flagship T-series, taking away from its original goal as a bread-and-butter machine for the rank and file.

 

Now that argument makes sense (at least to me) at least in so far as the R series is concerned (I don't know about the SL though)! As long as they don't do anything major to the T and the X series, I would personally be comfortable. BTW, one quick question doesn't the T410 come with an integrated webcam? Last evening I was spec'ing out a T410 on the Lenovo UK website and as one of the options I was asked if I wanted to add a portable webcam. And on checking I did not find a mention of an integrated webcam on the T410 I was configuring. Sorry, that last question is a bit off-topic though.

 

Ya, thanks. Fixed.

True Dell has the Vostro and HP has the Probooks. I just think Lenovo should have differentiated it more. A letter just implies it is another Thinkpad.

The whole Edge moniker I could understand if you built a sub-brand around it.

 

The integrated webcam is optional, and I believe it's a $30 addition.

I agree - that would be less confusing for potential buyers, adding less to the alphabet soup of Thinkpads. With the Edge family, I don't see how the target audience doesn't overlap significantly with the L-series.

 

That someone else makes the same mistakes already is not a good reason. All of these companies have too many sub brands and too many models. This never works. Your brand should stand for something in the first place - and anyone who really believes that the size of the customer's company makes a difference in what they want from a laptop, is simply delusional.

 

In addition to the V series, they are launching a new Z series for the Ideapad line in China. The Z series include the island style keyboard like the edge. V series has alway been available in China, thus it is not as new as people think http://notebook.pconline.com.cn/price/hl/0905/1637755.html

 

They want to saturate the market with their products, and fill all the niches they could find. One brand one product strategy doesn't work nowadays, you can't target the entire market segment with one product like what IBM did. Especially when you have no other revenue sources other than from selling laptops and computers.

IBM Thinkpads maybe a great product, but its inability to change with the shifting market dynamic, meant that IBM continually lost ground to HP and Dell over the years, whom have multiple products for multiple market segments. Why do you think HP acquired Voodoo, while Dell acquired Alienware?

One size fits all strategy doesn't really work nowadays, when you have all that competition in the market.

 

Laptops are commodities for the wealthy western world so I would be inclined to agree with lead_org regarding brand strategies looking to fill niches.

"Mistakes" or not is pretty difficult to judge. It is just my opinion that clear differentiation for business machines (small or corporate) is a good idea.

In other industries the vast amount of product line segmentation is profit maximizing.

 

I'm no business person, but as I said in the other L series thread, I personally think the lineup should be something like R -> T -> X -> W in the thinkpad range, then have whatever the heck they want in the ideapad and essential range. I think too much diversity can be a problem though because it can blur other models, and I'm just really worried about the entire lineup getting watered down because of it. As it stands I think they have far too many 14 inch models. As long as they don't touch the T, X, and W then I'm fine with it I guess.

 

I agree. But that would make the T equivalent to the current (and now apparently discontinued) R, which would make it the entry point into the enterprise/ business line of machines! Oh well...I guess Lenovo marketing and product/ brand management have does their research and therefore know what they are doing.

 

Actually the most relevant "market dynamic" that reflects what consumers seek is:
- quality
- simplicity
- system integration.

This is why with one phone model and three laptop models, Appple manages to make more profits on laptops and phones than both industries.

Your "One size fits all strategy doesn't really work nowadays" is a red herring. I clearly am not saying Lenovo must make one single laptop only. I'm saying they need to sit down and look carefully at what is the sensible overlap that can help them reduce fragmentation, increase quality and reduce costs.

It's lazy marketing to throw up a new sub brand and a new product for everything. It means you havent thought through your products holistically, not individually and not at portfolio level. This is lemming suicide.

What industry? You mean like Nokia and Sony Ericsson with a million commoditized phones and profit dropping like a rock? Or GM that went to beg the govt for money? Or the airlines with a million price points and fare structures - and has collectively never made a profit.

No, I think it's pretty fair to say that there is such a thing as overkill and product fragmentation. There is no valid reason for the product range that Lenovo has at the moment. They are just throwing things up against the wall.

 

The big problem is that for diehard IBM era ThinkPad users, there really is no other brand that produces something that's very similar to traditional ThinkPads. Oh well, ThinkPads and regular consumers were always a niche market.

 

For most casual users I can see the simplicity of product selection being important.

However Thinkpads do not cater to casual users and the new small business lines are also not targeted at casual users.

If it was so simple to see the flaws of many OEMs that could so easily match what Apple has done, then they would be moving towards it.

I am not in Apple's intended market and I don't like its offerings, so obviously there are niches to chase profits in.

 

Who are "casual users" and why would they NOT want a durable laptop with a good keyboard?

Also, who Lenovo is chasing with their online coupons for Thinkpads, and their constant Thinkpad sales promotions such as Valentines, easter, christmas, thanksgiving. If it's not "casual users", then well there must be some very strange corporate purchasing departments out there. :wink:

If that is "segmentation", then its a very schizophrenic one. Which is one reason why its not successful. Much smarter to focus on messaging and service.

You could have fooled me. I would have thought that a product targeted towards small businesses would assume that they might need better vertical resolution than 768 pixels for example.

The truth is that all this microsegmentation is useless. If it were useful then they would be able to sustain higher prices. But they arent. This is basically what is killing the airlines. They are chasing some fantasy that they can price everybody differently down to a man. Better off focusing on getting a streamlined product of extremely high quality. That is how Southwest for example, manages to cream off huge amounts of "Business" flyers, while their counterparts are wasting their time.

 

If you know so much better go consult for lenovo and have them break out in the US market in force...

Southwest also utilizes the same aircraft in general for maintenance simplicity and got very good fuel futures pricing in the past.

 

In my experience, most major companies have ready access to the knowledge they need to thrive. The challenge is having the open mind to take it. Any number of very qualified marketing and strategy companies would already have given them this type advice - and have been ignored. Which they will come to regret in the end.

But if you look at their constant discounting and couponing, its pretty clear that they are not succesful in holding up their brand value. Which is not going to be helped by piling on yet another meaningless sub brand. At some point you need to focus on the actual value embedded in the product and quit monkey around with meaningless microbranding. The value IS the branding.

 

Speaking of lineup, I just noticed that the X series tablet section is empty. It only says "ThinkPad Tablet laptops are currently sold out." I wonder if that's Lenovo's way of saying "oops, we're having supply problems and don't know when we'll get parts back in stock".

 

Price is not an important factor now? Have you seen how popular netbooks and cheap laptops are?

Well we have yet to able to clone Jobs and make him the CEO of every computer company. Maybe we could and start a clone war of some sort.... what works for Apple doesn't necessary mean it works for every other brand. Panasonic Toughbook range are very focused, but do you see it as popular as Apple Macbook range? In order to practice what Apple does successfully, you need a public face salesman whom his know his stuffs and aura, so without the Snakes-oil salesman, you are not going to be anywhere like Apple.

Unless the CEO of Lenovo wants to come on stage to start his keynote or powerpoint speech about why Eskimos should buy Ice cubes, then it won't work.

.

Increase quality and reduce costs... one would think that Lenovo have already reduced cost of Thinkpads to very low already, and anything more would really cut into the quality of the laptop themselves. Increase quality would increase cost once you have tapped into all the synergies that you can find, i think this is common sense.

Unless the Marketing managers get unlimited power, suffer no consequences to their actions, and the shareholders don't really care that the laptop companies post negative profits for many years, then company radicalization could be employed.

It would be a real Lemming suicide, if there is only a small selection of products that no one can sell.

Even if Nokia or Sony Ericsson made one product for the entire world market, it would still be in financial trouble, because no one at Nokia or Sony Ericsson could stand up and give a keynote speech, and by the end of the speech everyone would want to buy that product.

GM did itself in, because many of its product competed against each other. Lenovo have thought about this, hence why it replaced the R series (which many people purchased instead of the T series) with a L series (SL also went).

GM units collectively have never made a profit in the entire time of their existence?

True there is overkill, but Lenovo clearly doesn't have that many products compared to its other Tier one competitors. Just have a look all the products and sub-brands that HP, Dell and Acer have.

They are the sort of people whom place price above all else as the most attractive point about a laptop. Durable laptop with good keyboard comes at a price, and these casual users don't want to pay the price. These causal users would be the people whom purchase netbook.... yes there are people whom really purchase netbooks because they are cheap.

People who wants a good quality business laptop at an affordable price. Most people like bargains, and these coupons plays into these 'bargain' seeking mentality that some people have.

Some small business owners are very tight with their budget, and don't know all that much about computers. XGA laptop LCD is not that common anymore.

Not everyone operates on the same business model. Ryanair is making lot of money giving low quality service.

They are early adopters of technology, whom would buy them regardless of cost. Then there are people whom buys a product when they need them, and then there are people whom buys a product, when it is on discount. The coupons are used to attract those people, whom are holding off so a discount comes along. This is a marketing scheme.... Dell employs them all the time....

 

I see that you seem just as unclear about Lenovo about whether you are are serving "casual users" or "business users" of what. And how.

Moreover, its insane to think that one can pay a premium for the Lenovo brand, and pay the extra cost of maintaning the brand.....then run around chasing bottom feeding customers in competiton with Acer, Asus and co. This is suicide.

I noticed the continued attempts to drive red herrings about "one product" or "Steve Jobs". Well, there is a world of distance from today's product lineup to "one product". What is called for is better oversight of the product portfolio - and it is not there.

As for Mr Jobs, the truth is that it is geeks who know him. But it aint geeks buying Apple products. So its best that you folks separate the two things. better yet, take a walk into your local mall. First Go to the Sony Style store and look at the computers. Then got to Best Buy and look in the computer section. Then finally walk in the the Apple store.

If after doing this with your eyes open, you still think that the difference with Apple is just about steve jobs and not about intelligent and holistic marketing, then I suggest you apply for a job in the Lenovo marketing department. You are well qualified for the job. :wink:

 

Apple is holistic but you are ignoring the user base that wants more control over their products along with more selection and options than what Apple provides. If there are users outside of Apple's intended target base then, again, there are obviously profits to chase there.

You can harp on how flawed Lenovo or XYZ OEM's product lineups and marketing strategies are, but with a Thinkpad I mostly have a production value gain and I personally as a consumer still see the brand built on the quality of the good and service.

 

Oh boy, more Apple fanboy bologna, "holistic..." wow, may i point you to this page.

 

I think you should re-read his post and look at his signature before calling him an apple fanboy...

 

Sorry don't quite understand what you are trying to say here... doesn't make a lot of sense.

are you trying to say that Lenovo don't know how to serve casual and business users, or are you talking about me?

Did we forget that HP do produce some very cheap laptops, some DV series and the Compaq range all seem to be pretty cheap when i last checked.

Oh regarding the comments about Acer chasing bottom feeding customers, are you saying that Acer brand mostly attracts bottom feeders? Do you consider people whom buys the cheaper Acer products to be mostly bottom feeders? Do you have a cheap Acer laptop laying around your house and used by your family members?

Your Red herrings has become the black Mamba...

Steve Jobs know how to sell his product and do the right marketing. Before Jobs returned back to the helm of Apple, and started his iXXXX craze, did many people even bought Apple products? Whether Geeks or not. Sorry not every country has Best Buy....

Yes i will keep my eyes open for Best Buy Stores in Australia....

well whether or not Apple is about Steve Jobs is quite easy to see, just look at Apple without Steve Jobs at the helm. Maybe you could learn a thing or two from him.

Effective marketing needs effective salesman........ just throwing big words around doesn't get you anywhere if you don't understand how to use it.

--- that is what you said a while ago.... so is this the holistic intelligent marketing that you are talking about?

<--- did you forget to add price? i think quality and price are the two most important market dynamics wouldn't you say? Otherwise most people would buy the top line stuffs?

Is there a job for cynics? i think you are very good at it.

 

V series apparently have an aluminium top and palmrest.



which resembles the latitude or elitebook machine... maybe it is targeted at those customers...

 

So Steve Jobs is the only man in history to every have been a good salesman. Ergo if your name is not Steve Jobs, you should not bother trying to make any sense of your products, your product portfolio and anything you are doing. And if someone says you have too many jumbled and products that add no value and have little brand equity, its best to pretend that they are saying you should sell only one single product, instead of getting the message.

Yes absolutley. Lenovo should continue to dilute its brand, throw product up against the wall to see what sticks and make no sense. This is the road to true success in business.


I start to understand the level of "discussion" once can expect here. Any lame excuse will do to absolve PC makers of the long list of bad choices they have made - and continue to make.

 

Steve Jobs is not the only great salesman in history, but he is the only good one at the moment working in the computer industry as a CEO.

What Lenovo does is there business. You should not get yourself too worked up on this sort of things.

Are you buying a product for what it is, or buying a product based on how many different product lines the company offers? You could always buy more Acer products if you are unhappy with Lenovo and what lenovo is doing business wise.

 

Not sure why you keep repeating this nonsense. You dont need to have a marketer salesman as CEO, you need a competent manager who knows the importance of marketers and hires them. Do you know who the CEO of Nintendo or Sony or Disney are? Nope?

So spare us this sidetrack nonsense about Steve Jobs. The real issue is that the PC industry is run by gear heads who not only lack an understanding of how important it is to have good marketing, but also customer service and product design, which many of them basically had over to OEMs. That's how you get in a situation where you make no money.

They are free to do what they want. And I'm free to critisize it as I wish. After all I'm not in China.

Ah, here we reach the heart of the matter. Those who want a cheap $500 second notebook can already buy an Acer and get good value from it. And they do. So Lenovo thinking that it has a future selling those same $500 OEMed devices for $800, just by calling them "small business laptops", is laughable. And doomed to fail.

 

So basically this is a 14 inch aluminum skinned u330? (which is not a bad thing imho)

 

Well how long have Nintendo, Sony and Disney been around? Are you sure it is just their effective marketers that is doing the magic, or the company's long history and near monopoly status in their industry that doing the magic?

FYI Sony as a company have declined quite a bit since the 1990s, and their products no longer hold the status they use to... Apple have pretty much taken over from Sony in that regard.... Apple ipod is the Sony walkman of the old.....

I think it is ODM not OEM that does the laptop design on behalf of the laptop companies. Why would you think that contracting out to ODM a company makes no money? Do have any evidence to support this argument?

Regarding gear heads and things, you answered your question on why the el jefe of the company needs to understand marketing and how to sell the product in the public. Because unless he thinks on the line of the marketing and product managers, there is no way he would approve anything, the only thing that would get these middle management is a quick job termination.

Also, the problem with niche markets, is that they are a nice market. If too many companies compete in these niche market, then it would simply descend into the same chaos that is happening in the tier one market.

Running out of logical arguments are you? I am obviously not going to respond to your political insinuation.

Yes it is equally laughable the same person whom purchased the $500 dollars Acer laptop, referring to people using cheap Acer laptops as bottom feeders. Yes doom and groom, apparently 2012 is the year of Armageddon.. haha...

 

Heard of a guy called John Sculley? He was hired by Jobs to run Apple. For details, check out: "Odyssey: Pepsi to Apple". Despite Sculley's brilliance (he did force Jobs out of his own company, you know), he failed to raise the bar at Apple and eventually either quit or was forced to quit. The original idea (it was Jobs' idea) was that while Jobs would do the creative work, Sculley would be the manager, which is what he was very good at when he headed Pepsico (their International Div. if I am not mistaken).

One line from that book is a telling assessment of Steve Jobs by Sculley: ""Steve Jobs was less a manager and more an impresario. He knew that the role of managment wasn't to stifle creativity through structure and process, but to foster it through unusually innovative means and thinking."

Now, I am not a fan of Apple or their products, but I will give credit where it is due. Jobs is an innovative thinker who is also an excellent marketeer. Apple's product portfolio stands testimony to this.

 

Indeed Acer is a bottom feeding company because they have no interest in making premium laptops. They are at the bottom end of the market which they serve quite well, same as McDonalds serves the bottom end of the food market. It's fact.

What you've repeatedly failed to explain is how Lenovo will pave a path to success with a million OEM'ed laptops that are no different that what Acer and Acer make, except 2-300 bucks more expensive. Especially as, by your own admission, Lenovo currently has no marketing skills.

So at the end of the day, we still have not heard any credible reason why Lenovo's millionth lob of me-too product over the wall is going to stick.

 

Sure that is why they released the Ferrari range of Acer laptops.

If you may notice that there are more people in the bottom market then there is at the top market. Regarding McDonald, they are doing quite well for themselves in terms of profit, and they are expanding faster than many high class restaurants chain in developing countries. Profit is profit, no matter which market you serve.

It is ODM not OEM, you can not even get this fact right? Lenovo's main competitors are HP and Dell, since they cover the same market spectrum from business laptops to consumer laptops. While, Acer laptops are in the lower rung of the market, with no real business laptops line, with most of business focused on cheaper laptop lines (i.e. Netbooks).

Also, i am just telling the current market facts, i am not making prediction as to whether Lenovo will release million different lines of products, and make money out of that. I never said Lenovo will make money by release million different models, so please do not make unsupported accusations.

Another one of your over the top exaggeration...

So please educate us about your market dynamics (and how price doesn't play into) again? or product concepts is the new marketing concepts? or what the use of Coupons and discounts are for....

Also, you should read through your own posts and other people's response to your post carefully, before you make needless accusations.

 

an excerpt from Apple COO Tim Cook's conference call with Goldman Sachs.

The executive team of the company spends a lot of time thinking and discussing how to retain and recruit the best talent in the world, because at the end of the day – I know it's a cliché – but people are our most important asset by far, and it's people that deliver innovation which is key to us. And so what else do we do other than that? Well, we are the most focused company that I know of, or have read of, or have any knowledge of. We say no to good ideas every day. We say no to great ideas in order to keep the amount of things we focus on very small in number, so that we can put enormous energy behind the ones we do choose, so that we can deliver the best products in the world. In fact, the table that each of you are sitting at today, you could probably put every product on it that Apple makes, and yet Apple's revenue last year was over $40 billion. I think the only other company that could say that is an oil company.
And that is not from just saying "Yes" to the right product which gets a lot of focus. It's saying no to many products that are good ideas, but just not nearly as good as the other ones. And so I think that this is so ingrained in our company that this hubris that you talk about which happens to companies that are successful but then decide that their sole role in life is to get bigger, and they start adding this and that and this and that. I can tell you the management team of Apple would never let that happen. That's not what we're about. So, focus on people, and ensuring that it's a small list of things to work on and putting all of our wood behind those things, that's the magic behind us.

Link here

 

@ miliranga...

Thanks! Very informative.

Just goes to show how focused Apple is and how they play the miche market so very well. That line about all their products being on a single table and constituting $40 Billion in revenues was especially revealing!

 

Indeed, but McDonalds is actually a supremely oiled machine. They have a relatively limited menu and they have a service process that is timed down to the second. They are extremely disciplined in setting and meeting process perfornance targets. That's how you make money on high volume- low margin products.

Lenovo in contrast cant even tell you accurately when you'll get what you order. And their product line continues to mushroom out of control. But you still cant get a decent screen on what they claim is is their "flagship" "premium laptop" , the T410s.

Meanwhile someone else is selling billions of dollars worth of revenues on a 3 laptop lineup, in which they reap the benefit of both differentiated high margin product and operational efficiencies with just 3 models to build, design and support. But hey, keep clutching at red herrings rather than get the message.

In the meantime Lenovo, needs to wake up and stop throwing product out there. Its just out of hand.

 

Limited menu in USA.... but not in Asia and even in Australia, the range have expanded quite a bit to include gourmet cafe and healthy range of burgers and wraps....

You buy what you need, if you find the LCD unsuitable then well you should really look elsewhere, which you did. If Lenovo did have the opportunity to provide the better LCD, they would have, it is not as if they don't know that their LCD is not the market best. Personally i am quite happy with the LCD on my Thinkpad laptops for general use, it is not the best for HD movie viewing, but this is what the normal LCD TV is for.

This is like saying that USA wants to turn itself into Abu Dhabi just because everyone's living standards are high there, without factoring the reason why they are so rich. It is pure and simple, Lenovo don't know how to become Apple, nor does any other tier one laptop companies, if they knew how to do it effectively, they wouldn't be chasing the market they are chasing. HP is doing a half hearted job of releasing the Macbook Pro Envy line of products, do you really think that the Macbook users would suddenly drop their current products for it?

Then there is the various Toughbook copycat Dell Latitude laptops.... and that Adamo line to compete with the Macbook Air laptops.... none turned out to be a category killer. Because none of them offer more features or brand value than what it is already released by the market leader in that segment.

It is one thing to know how Warren Buffet became so rich, but it is another thing to do it yourself.

As said before, Lenovo don't have any other better strategy than this, or people higher up just don't want to risk a total revamp because they are not sure whether they could nail it, without failing further behind in market share....

At the end of the day, jack of trade is better than a skinned donkey...

Whatever Lenovo does now is something they have thought long and hard about, there is no point arguing about it, since they wouldn't care anyway. If this doesn't work out, they can always chase after other plan they have.