What the heck is going on around here?

Gents,

I was one click away from buying the 13" yoga pro 2 until I noticed more and more negative reviews about the supposedly big cover up with the yellow color fix {are there any others?????} that has not been fixed.

The more I read on the net the more I get confused if this is legit or a smear campaign.

I cant get my hands on one locally so I am basing my judgment on independent reviews and even resellers who have been complaining recently that this is getting really ugly.

I welcome any feedback from current owners if this has been blown up out of proportion.

Apparently the complaints have even gone the way of youtube.

Calling Lenovo sales/support is a sad experience putting it nicely and I often lurk these communities for help with my current Lenovo systems for help.

Thanks!

john

 

I too would like to know just how legit this problem is, I've seen people complaining like hell about it but I've also seen people saying the issue is overblown. I am also pretty much a click away from buying what looks like a fantastic product, but if this is bad as some people claim it is maybe I should look elsewhere.

 

I have had a yoga 2 pro since Dec. The pure color yellow has a mustard tint to it compared to a perfect monitor. It doesn't bother me a bit and I use the laptop for processing photos where I don't really notice it. If I were using it to highlight text in yellow (like in ms word) a lot or drawing in pure yellow I would notice it a lot more. The fact that the screen is so good otherwise (retina+ for my eyes) makes me overlook this minor issue. I also don't notice it when watching videos. If you have access to a best buy you can view one in person and decide for yourself.

Sent from my KatKiss JB TF101

 

Makes one wonder why Lenovo has this issue being the Yoga uses the exact panel from the Samsung ATIV Book 9 Plus. And the Samsung does not have this problem at all. On the Samsung the color accuracy is very good with excellent saturation etc.. Good enough for graphical work. Too bad Lenovo screwed up a perfectly good display. I can't believe they don't have a fix out for this yet. If I were in the market for a notebook with the super high resolution I would buy the Samsung. I've got the older 1080P matte model book 9 and love the hell out of it. 1080P is high enough for me. I worry about scaling problems with something that high and prefer matte non touch displays. But if you really want color accuracy and do graphical work then stay away from the Yoga and buy the Samsung even though it can't flip the screen around like the Yoga.

 

Given that the ATIV has inferior specs pretty much across the board, doesn't have the screen flexibility of the Yoga, and costs a bit more, it really doesn't interest me, but you do raise an important point about why Lenovo seems to have gotten this display issue wrong when Samsung got it right from the start.

 

Best Buy has yoga 2 so one can simply go there to check it out.

 

Well, it depends on what your needs are. The Samsung I believe can be ordered with 8 GB of ram now and i7. What you pay for on the Samsung is a very thin form factor and insane build quality. I have last years ativ book 9 with 1080P matte non touch screen at just over 2.5 lbs. Its a different machine that is very well made. Little things they do like sandblast the dura aluminum (aircraft type of alloy) before baking a matte finish. The tolerances are tighter then anything made today. The apple airs look and feel crude to a Samsung. Your paying for the expensive cost to build these. Just open and close the lid on the samsung and you will know what I mean. It's the Rolls Royce of ultrabooks as far as build quality and quality control when assembled and the tolerances are just insanely high. Yes its expensive but worth it to those that can appreciate the technology that goes into building it. Just look at one in the airport X-Ray. All modular components. No big MB here. There is nothing like it and Samsung builds the entire machine without third party components. Its a complete vertically integrated machine. The Yoga does not meet the same perfection as far as build quality. Not even close. I'm only talking about the book 9 (top of the line) The other ones samsung builds are nothing to write home about. But believe me, if Lenovo built something like the book 9 they would be charging a heck of allot more for it. The Samy is just a show case of a manufacturer building the best Ultra portable and showing its number one enemy (apple) that they can one up them. They don't sell as many as the yoga. Its a limited produced machine to be sure. And as for the lid wrapping around, well, lets just say there are allot of folks, including myself that don't care for convertibles etc. There is a market for both.

 

Appreciate the insight, I didn't realize the Samsung had such excellent build quality. If you're willing to pay up for that kind of quality I can certainly see the appeal. Having said that, given my price range and what I'm looking for it's not really on my radar, as I care a lot more about getting the most bang for my buck, and the Yoga 2 provides what appears to be one of the best current deals on the market.

 

The Yoga 2 is well built and one of the better designed convertibles for the money. Its definitely a step up from your HP, Dell, etc.. I like Lenovo too I just bought a X230 on ebay in mint condition. It has the i5 2.9 that has a full wattage processor and it's stupid fast. Really like it allot even with the lower 720P IPS. Too bad Lenovo completely messed up the thinkpad with the newer X240. They messed up the KB, put a sealed battery in it (that's just wrong) put a crappy clickpad, runs hot, fan noise now when the X230 was basically the quietest machine ever made, less port selection, ulv processor etc.. Really sad what they did to that machine. At least you can still get it in a matte screen. That's what worries me the most that one day one will not be able to buy an old school notebook like the X230. That's why I bought one on ebay. The X230 is the last of its kind. Full powered processor, portable and still gets 10 hours with a 9 cell.

 

The keyboard got already messed up with the X230...

 

Compared to the X220, I can see where some would say this. But it's still better then the X240 being it has the hard keys for vol, and microphone and keeps the more straight forward touch pad with the hard keys for left/right click and scroll. I understand the purist want the old style of X220 but those machines are getting older and hard to find in mint condition. Plus the difference of going back a generation on Intel really kills it for graphics. Intel 4000 graphics is years ahead of the 3000 that the X220 had. For this reason, I feel the X230 is the best machine. It still keeps the full wattage processor, runs cool, and still has great battery life and has the user replaceable battery. For that matter, its a much easier machine to open up and upgrade then the X240. The X240 follows the modern tradition of having the plastic tabs one has to be very careful of not breaking when prying off the bottom. I have a sandy bridge 14" Toshiba fusion machine and its very nice as well. But I can really see the difference that ivy bridge brings to the table. Now the carbon with the adaptive row of keys is a showstopper deal killer. I have that on my HP HDX and had many issues with it. Had to send it back to HP and although its not turning off wifi on its own anymore or changing the vol up and down on its own,,, I hate that and swore I would never buy anything with adaptive keys. The carbon is a no go.

I know there were people trying to put a X220 KB on a X230 to make the dream machine but that from what I hear is not possible. I do notice however, that prices are rising on ebay for the X230. Lenovo should take note to that. Putting touch screens, and making the X240 windows 8 happy is not what most users want. Lenovo still refuses to ship a FHD matte screen on the X240. Only comes with glossy touch even though its available in Germany as a non touch matte screen. I know for hard core CPU extensive tasks my full wattage i5 2.9 that turbos to 3.6 will destroy the X240's ULV processor and do it quieter and cooler as well. The X240 is a loud and hot piece of junk.

 

Compared to the X220, I can see where some would say this. But it's still better then the X240 being it has the hard keys for vol, and microphone and keeps the more straight forward touch pad with the hard keys for left/right click and scroll. I understand the purist want the old style of X220 but those machines are getting older and hard to find in mint condition. Plus the difference of going back a generation on Intel really kills it for graphics. Intel 4000 graphics is years ahead of the 3000 that the X220 had. For this reason, I feel the X230 is the best machine. It still keeps the full wattage processor, runs cool, and still has great battery life and has the user replaceable battery. For that matter, its a much easier machine to open up and upgrade then the X240. The X240 follows the modern tradition of having the plastic tabs one has to be very careful of not breaking when prying off the bottom. I have a sandy bridge 14" Toshiba fusion machine and its very nice as well. But I can really see the difference that ivy bridge brings to the table. Now the carbon with the adaptive row of keys is a showstopper deal killer. I have that on my HP HDX and had many issues with it. Had to send it back to HP and although its not turning off wifi on its own anymore or changing the vol up and down on its own,,, I hate that and swore I would never buy anything with adaptive keys. The carbon is a no go.

I know there were people trying to put a X220 KB on a X230 to make the dream machine but that from what I hear is not possible. I do notice however, that prices are rising on ebay for the X230. Lenovo should take note to that. Putting touch screens, and making the X240 windows 8 happy is not what most users want. Not on that machine at least. I know for hard core CPU extensive tasks my full wattage i5 2.9 that turbos to 3.6 will destroy the X240's ULV processor and do it quieter and cooler as well. The X240 is a loud and hot piece of junk. Oh and almost forgot the X240 can only except up to 8 GB memory and no 9 cell battery option. The reviews on Lenovo's own web site give it ony 2.5 stars. Pathetic. The X230 did compromise the KB a bit but the X240 KILLED off the Thinkpad altogether.

 

Really? May I ask whats your basis for this statement?

Why not just compare the measurements Notebookcheck did on X230 and X240 in their tests?
- X230 Review: Lenovo ThinkPad X230 2306-2AU Laptop Review - NotebookCheck.net Reviews
- X240 Review: Review Lenovo ThinkPad X240 Ultrabook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

If you look closely on these test, some may get a different picture of the situation:

- X240 runs cooler on average than the X230, no matter if Idle or Load (X230 in Idle: 33.5 - 36.4° C, under Load: 36.9 - 41° C; X240 in Idle: 27.6 - 28.7° C, under Load: 30.2 - 33.1° C)

- The X240 is quieter than the X230 in Idle, and a bit louder under Load

X230 and X240 are different Subnotebooks with different approches, The X230 has great performance, even better than the X240 (the X240 with i7 should be equally fast as the X230 with i5), but will loose against the X240 when it comes to mobility, as the X240 sacrifices some performance (CPU performance and GPU performance, due to the Single Channel RAM), but will crush the X230 in battery performance. The usage of ULV CPUs equals a trade of CPU performance for battery life.

Oh, and one point: The X240 has a 9-cell option, due to the built in 3-cell battery, which when combined with the optional hot-swap 6-cell battery, means you have 9 cells. So the statement "there is no 9-cell option" is false.

The X230 might be the last of its kind, thats right. Obviously, that niche isn´t of interest for the OEMs anymore, since they all have abandoned this type of product (just take a look at HP and the Elitebook 820). But the X230 is not really this much better than the X240 as a product - its just different.

 

ibmthink, I hope you don't mind me replying to your post.

Someone can come here and make the same arguments for the X230 that you've made for the X240. They have their personal opinions and you have yours. You chose to focus on the data that puts the X240 in a favorable light. For instance, the other person might say the following:

-X230 has a more fuller keyboard
-X230 is much easier to service, maintain, upgrade and thus might be a better long term product
-X230 is much better at handling large volumes of data or multiple tasks due to larger memory limit
-X230 has the Thinklight (not everyone likes the backlit keyboards)
-X230 was cheaper and offered better performance

The point is that there are different opinions and just because you can make a list of pros for the X240 doesn't mean much, to be honest. Someone else can make a counterargument. When you said the X230 will lose against the X240 when it comes to portability, I have to question that. They are both 12.5" notebooks. How much more unportable can the X230 really be?

Some may like the X240 while others may not. Some may like the X230 while others may not. Let them. What difference does it make? (this last paragraph is not directed at anyone in particular)

 

Of course not.

I was not talking about mobility in sense of portablity, but about mobility in terms of portabililty and battery performance - because a notebook can be very small and very light, but if its battery life is not good, it is not mobile.

But, of course, the X240 has the edge not only in mobility in terms of battery performance, but also in terms of portability. Why? It has the same footprint as the X230, but it is much thinner and also lighter.

No, its not really about opinion. HI DesertNM said 3 things about the X240:
- He said it would overheat compared with the X230
- He said it would be much louder than the X230
- And he said there is no 9-cell option

I didn´t post my opinion about this comparison (at least not in the first part of my post), I tried to correct him based on the measurements of the heat and the noise from Notebookcheck, which I consider to be a reliable source for that. So I was only trying to echo the facts at this point, and the facts are: The X240 does not overheat or is more noisy compared with the X230.

If you are talking about these aspects, yes, they are purely opinion based. But I did not say anything about these in my post.

But BTW about the maintaince: You can´really say that the X230 is easier to maintain, because in some points it is, but in some others its not. for example, the HDD and the keyboard are much easier to maintain with the X230, but the fan for example, is very difficult to reach with the X230 design. The X240 maintaince design might be a step backwards in some aspects (the use of plastic tabs), but certainly, it is also great that you only have to take of one part (the bottom cover), and then, you have access to all parts, except the keyboard and the screen of course. Everthing has pros and cons...

 

You claim you are not posting your opinion yet you are very defensive about the X240 or any criticisms of it.

As for the points I made in favor of the X230, are you really sure that they are "purely opinion based?"

And how can you possibly even say that the X230 is not easier to maintain than the X240 is almost every way? By the way, you conveniently left out the part about RAM. Is the keyboard not bigger on the X230? Anyway, I don't want to convince anyone so I will stop it right here. No one benefits from these sort of so-called debates over a bunch of personal biases.

Here are some clips where the user of each machine had to open them to upgrade:

X240:
Removal steps of memory module - ThinkPad x240 - YouTube

X230:
Lenovo Thinkpad X-230 Ram Installation - YouTube

 

No. As I said, I was only echoing the facts concering the heat and the noise. These are no points you can be defensive about or not. Facts are facts - you can´t say that the X240 overheats compared with the X230, because it simply does not.

If someone is mistaken, I think it should be still ok to correct him, wether it is about the new ThinkPads, or about the older ThinkPads, or about anything else.

Yes I am - these points depending on your opinion and your needs.

Well, because it is not! To swap or clean the fan of the X230, you will have to take apart the whole machine - to swap the WWAN/mSATA SSD or the WLAN card, you will have to take off the palmrest and the keyboard. As I said, with the X240, you wil only have to remove one part - the base cover - and then have access to everything.

I was only giving examples - I also left out the part about the WLAN card and the mSATA / WWAN cards.

Yes, the keyboard is bigger. However, as I said, that may concern you or it may not. The keyboard is almost full-size - the only real issue for me would be the missing insert key, which produces an error if FnLk is active, because then it is swapped with Home. Then again, as you can see, thats only my opinion.

Thats good, because I also will stop here, I only wanted to correct HI DesertNM about these points anyway...

 

Well, I based my opinions on the X240 thread from real users that actually own and operate a X240 not a web site. What I hear over and over again is issues with fan noise, heat, and terrible touchpad that does not respond well. People say the fan is like a whistling noise at times. There were people who actually took apart their machines trying to figure out were the fan noise was coming from. And most users complained of the same sounds. I can't hear the fan at all on my X230. I have a full wattage processor on my i5 2.9 X230. The X240 now uses a ULV. So its going to be hard to compare the two. I admit, the graphics will be faster with Haswell. But I'll take the full wattage of the X230 over the ULV any day. Intel graphics 4000 is plenty good for most business users.

What amazes me is how quiet my X230 is even under load. And it never gets warm. So I was surprised to hear complaints on the X240 forum about these issues. I could give a crap about what some notebook check web site says. I listen to users. That's what this forum is for. Lets not forget the X240 only has two USB now. No expresscard even though Lenovo's web site says it has one. But users say its not there anymore. I've put a expresscard in my X230 and added two more USB 3 ports for a total of 5 USB. Many complaints as well as the clickpad does not register very well and its LOUD. The X230 hard mouse buttons are virtually silent. If you read the reviews on Lenovo's own site many of them are returning them for these issues. I mean, I understand that you will naturally have people post negative reviews but the X240 is just over 2 stars only. That's not good. Its one of the lowest rated systems on Lenovo's site.

Also, lets not forget that the X240 having an internal battery is absolutely horrid for a thinkpad. Not generally user replaceable. Whereas I just bought a Lenovo 9 cell oem battery on Amazon for 80 bucks. That's a huge step backwards. But I was talking about the user replaceable option. Don't even get me going on the internal crap battery they went to.

 

Just to let you know, the Yellow problem has been an on going thing on the Samsung ATIV 9+ for a while now.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/samsung/733030-2013-ativ-book-9-plus-owner-s-lounge-np940x3g-31.html, found it at Post 302, not sure if it started before that.
I came around much later, but they are still talking about it.

Besides all of that. Yes I believe Samsung makes the Best UltraBook, even though I have had problems with the touchpad since I got my 9+