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    What's the maximum temperature you get by stress testing your ThinkPad with LinX?

    Discussion in 'Lenovo' started by sniper_sung, Jul 30, 2011.

  1. sniper_sung

    sniper_sung Notebook Evangelist

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    I've been playing with several stress testing programs, and the most power draw I've produced on my X220 with an i7-2620M is 49W by running LinX (with latest Linpack library from Intel supporting AVX instruction set). This was inspired by the Intel 4.5GHz & 5GHz LinX Stable Club

    To reproduce such stress test on your laptop, you'll need to download the latest version of LinX with updated Linpack libraries, and also install Windows 7 Service Pack 1 to enable full support of the AVX instruction set (with is an important feature for the Sandy Bridge CPUs).

    To maximise the Gflops out of your CPU, you'll need to set the "number of threads" equal to the number of physical cores on your CPU, because Linpack is a standard SIMD program which receives negative impact from HT. For example, if you have a dual core CPU, then set the "number of threads" equal to 2.

    To stress your memory modules at the same time, set memory usage value as "2 GB less than the total physical memory you have". For example, if you have 8GB physical memory installed, then set LinX to use 6GB here.

    Allow LinX to run for at least 30 minutes continuously. Use any temperature monitoring program (I recommend RealTemp) to capture the MAX value over the "Maximum" temperature of all cores. For example, for a dual core CPU, if the "Maximum" temperatures of each core are 92C and 93C respectively, then take 93C as your MAX.

    To verify if you have met any throttling problems: for dual core Sandy Bridge users, you should expect around 35 Gflops. If you measure less than 30 Gflops, then you have probably met throttling problems, or haven't enabled AVX properly.
     
  2. BlackLion

    BlackLion Notebook Consultant

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    I did a full clean up yesterday with re-pasting and thought it's a good opportunity to see if I got any benefits.. so, 84C is my max temp so far for ThinkPad W510 (after 1 hour of running).

    Number of threads: 4
    Memory usage: 6GB

    GFlops peak: 21.3508

    linx.png
     
  3. floz23

    floz23 Notebook Evangelist

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    My computer easily goes to 97c, and will throttle down to stock, 2.7ghz speeds.

    x220, i7
     
  4. kirayamato26

    kirayamato26 Notebook Deity

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    I just tried it, got around 36.8 GFLOPS max, and a max of 85C on core 1 and 76C on core 0.
     
  5. floz23

    floz23 Notebook Evangelist

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    which thinkpad model?
     
  6. kirayamato26

    kirayamato26 Notebook Deity

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    The one in my signature.
     
  7. sniper_sung

    sniper_sung Notebook Evangelist

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    Hmm why quad core gets less Gflops? It looks like AVX is playing an important role here, and non-Sandy CPUs are in disadvantage...

    The same for my X220... I wonder if replacing the TIM can improve anything?

    Obviously W series got a much better cooling system! :)
     
  8. kirayamato26

    kirayamato26 Notebook Deity

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    My ambient temperature is pretty high too. It is like 26 ~ 28C in my room in the summer.
     
  9. floz23

    floz23 Notebook Evangelist

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    No you won't. I actually disassembled my entire x220 to replace the TIM. Not only was the whole disassembly a PITA, but it did nothing to lower my temps. I used Shin Etsu g751.

    This topic was also discussed at length in another thread. The consensus is that the x220's heatsink and fan assembly is rated almost exactly at 35watts. Just enough for the 2.7ghz rated clockspeed of the i7.
     
  10. sniper_sung

    sniper_sung Notebook Evangelist

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    Then it seems the heatsink is working at full capacity already. I wish I had a 22nm CPU. 35W TDP is just too hot. My previous laptop had a P9600 with only 25W TDP but great performance
     
  11. kirayamato26

    kirayamato26 Notebook Deity

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    Most likely, even with 22nm CPUs, they won't lower the TDP and will just add 2 more cores. The Core 2 Duos didn't have a GPU or northbridge on board, which combined ate more than 10W anyways.
     
  12. floz23

    floz23 Notebook Evangelist

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    Yep, I think Ivy Bridge is were all the improved "battery action" is gonna be
     
  13. floz23

    floz23 Notebook Evangelist

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    Well, I think the Ivy Bridge are gonna use the tri-gate transistors.

    Intel's New Tri-Gate Ivy Bridge Transistors: 9 Things You Need to Know | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

    I'm guessing an additional 20% reduction in TDP, which should translate nicely into a decent battery life increase.
     
  14. sniper_sung

    sniper_sung Notebook Evangelist

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    But when Intel moved from 65nm Merom (e.g. T7800 @ 2.6GHz 35W) to 45nm Penryn (e.g. T9900 @ 3.07GHz 35W), there was also a lower TDP version e.g. P9600 @ 2.66GHz 25W. I think it is likely that when Intel moves to 22nm Ivy Bridge, there will also be a lower TDP version available. To be honest, I don't need more than 2 cores in a portable laptop - I just need a dual core CPU with less TDP and highest possible clock frequency for single thread biased applications.
     
  15. spook161

    spook161 Notebook Enthusiast

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    I haven't got my x220 yet, but its due tomorrow. So, I can't reply to this thread yet.

    Doesn't anyone else find it disconcerting that their CPU's run at 80-90c + I think some people are mistaking the 100c protection built into the intel processors. 100c TDP max... meaning this is the point the CPU starts to shutdown to protect itself because its too hot. I understand this isn't a desktop PC, but when I build one of these, I try to keep it max temps , in the low 60's while running prime or LinX test...

    I wouldn't expect a laptop to stay nearly as cool, due to the air flow, and size constraints, but 80-90c is acceptable???

    Funny thing is that I was re-reading a review on the x220, and they were careful to report temperatures around the laptop, ie keyboard, handrest... etc, and conclude that these temperatures were acceptable, therefore the x220 cooling was good due to these conclusions.... nothing about the temps of the CPU itself... crazy

    http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-x220.aspx

    wow, now that's a scientific way to review for thermals on a laptop... it has its place, but no mention of the CPU temps?


    At least when i get this laptop the max i have planned it to play a possible 1080p movie or two. the rest is surfing and such... No games or encoding.
     
  16. kirayamato26

    kirayamato26 Notebook Deity

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    Playing 1080p videos take almost literally nothing as the Intel HD 3000 has hardware decoding capabilities. Yes, 97C is acceptable for a laptop the size of the X220 with a full fledged CPU as it is small. I believe I read somewhere that most if not all laptops go up to the 70's and 80's under full load on the CPU, and 80's or 90's on the CPU and GPU when both are stressed to the max. I use 75C as a safe threshold for overclocking on a desktop personally.
     
  17. spook161

    spook161 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Since I don't have mine yet, I can't answer this, but is there a way to turn off the turbo boosting, so that it doesn't go above the 2.7Ghz(mine is 2.7Ghz) processing speeds, to limit the thermals?
     
  18. kirayamato26

    kirayamato26 Notebook Deity

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    Yes, you can, though I'm not sure if it'll limit the thermals any as it will be running close to 2.7GHz at 97C anyways. Just set the power profile for CPU power to be Balanced instead of Turbo or Maximum Turbo.
     
  19. sniper_sung

    sniper_sung Notebook Evangelist

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    I don't think that helps. The CPU in an X220 can reach 97C at 2.7GHz if you stress in the way I posted in the OP, unless you have a lower ambient temperature, or have a better installed TIM.

    The maximum I get for running a single thread Linpack is around 92C (with Turbo Boost to 3.4GHz). However Linpack stress is a bit too extreme, and you cannot easily encounter such situation during daily usage.
     
  20. talin

    talin Notebook Prophet

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    That is a bunch of crap and I'm tired of people spreading misinformation. It is NOT acceptable for a processor to run at 97C for even a short time. At 100C water boils, ever dipped your finger into boiling water? High temperatures, especially consistently high will shorten the lifespan of your processor! I don't care what you say. The x220 has an anemic cooling system, as does my T410. Just barely good enough is not good enough at all.
    Just because there is a safety mechanism for the processor to downclock itself at 100C does not mean it is safe to run it at high temperatures.
     
  21. sniper_sung

    sniper_sung Notebook Evangelist

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    I agree with your comments that consistently high temperature would decrease the lifespan of electronic components. This is electromigration modelled by the Black's Equation. The lifespan decreases exponentially when the temperature increases.

    But the CPU is not made of your fingers. Personally I have a ThinkPad T60, and I installed a Core 2 Duo T7200 2GHz into it, applied AS5 a couple of years ago. Since the day it became a spare laptop, I left it 7x24 on, for one purpose: run 2 clients of the folding@home. It's been running for years at 95C and it's still stable as a rock. Maybe it will eventually die, but it'll be after Windows 7 becomes EOL I guess.
     
  22. kirayamato26

    kirayamato26 Notebook Deity

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    Yes, I have, it hurt like hell. Yes, I do know that high temperatures will shorten the lifespan of a CPU, quite dramatically. But, manufacturers don't seem to care about that these days and will cram as much in as they can and have it operate just short of thermal throttling. And it is probably better for their business if your laptop dies faster so you'll buy another one to replace it. I believe I read somewhere that a modern CPU is designed to last around 10 years, and running it at a higher voltage and at a higher temperature may well shorten that to 3 ~ 5 years. I replace my computer every 2 ~ 3 years normally, and plan on replacing my W520 in 4.

    However, do also consider the fact that the CPU will never encounter anything as intensive as Linpack in normal usage, so your CPU will be nowhere near 97C normally.
     
  23. talin

    talin Notebook Prophet

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    kirayamato26 and sniper_sung;

    Atleast we agree on some points. There are incentives to sell more computers, and I would agree that most computer makers just don't care, and look where to cut corners to decrease costs while increasing profit.
    @sniper, it is possible you got a processor from a good bin. When manufacturing anything, you can never get the exact same results across the board, there will be variations in quality.

    Either way atleast we agree that high temperatures are detrimental to the lifespan of electronics.
     
  24. floz23

    floz23 Notebook Evangelist

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    As long as the cpu is under 100c, the temp is fine.
     
  25. unreal25

    unreal25 Capt. Obvious

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    Er yeah have fun running your CPU like that. I wonder how long is it going to last.

    Yup. I'm guessing this CPU is made for folks who have no idea what they need and feel better knowing they have i7. These smaller laptops obviously aren't designed for heavy duty CPU apps (or games) in mind. Which is too bad, i7 2720 is a great CPU... but it seems it's just pointless to have it in X220/T420 imo.

    Btw, I reached 80 C on CPU on Alienware M17x today, which is I think the highest temp I had in a while (except for running benchmarks) so I'm planning to repaste soon. I even consider this as "hot" for a CPU. Maybe the next reincarnation of Intel CPUs will run colder.
     
  26. kirayamato26

    kirayamato26 Notebook Deity

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    17" laptops have better cooling systems, usually. :p

    I see around 86C max when gaming, and that's only a spike. Yes, the CPU runs hotter while gaming than in LinPack. The single fan cooling system is not that great at keeping both the CPU and GPU cool. Other W520 users have reported as high as 95C when gaming.
     
  27. unreal25

    unreal25 Capt. Obvious

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    For a laptop of the size of W520 (which isn't really that small), 95 C is way too high. I mean its too high for any laptop, but W520 at least has more room to put a better cooling than X220. I certainly wouldn't want to game (or run a simulation, whatever) for couple of hours with the CPU going so hot.

    Hence I don't get the point of these laptops with 2nd gen core i CPUs. Its like having a high speed car, but if you keep the gas pedal long enough that it speeds up more than a regular car, there's a change of engine blowing up. :p
     
  28. mariol90

    mariol90 Notebook Consultant

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    my W500 completely shut off after 8 minutes of running. the max CPU temp was 100C, and it kept throttling to 2.13 GHz (I have a T9600), then jumping back to 2.8 once it was in the high 70s.
    also, all the lights on the computer shut off and it wouldn't turn on until I unplugged the computer and plugged it back in. the computer stayed quiet the entire time, so lenovo seems to have some fan management issues...

    running it a few more times, still throttles with max fan speed (4800 rpm), but undervolted with BIOS controlled fan (3500 rpm seems to be the max), it never throttles.
    http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/mariol90/1.png - max fan speed, i'm not sure how it got that performance. I also tried with a 65W adapter and throttlestop, undervolted, and it got that performance again.
    http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/mariol90/2.png - max fan speed again
    http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/mariol90/3.png - bios controlled fan + undervolt, no throttling, performance is better than with no undervolting + max fan speed.
    http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/mariol90/5.png - max fan speed + undervolt
    if I use throttlestop, the computer goes into standby after 104C.

    http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/mariol90/6.png - Z61t, no undervolt, tpfancontrol runs in the background. without tpfancontrol it throttles to 1.66 GHz, with tpfancontrol the max is 96C. so everything has throttling issues :D

    just for fun: http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/mariol90/4.png
    thinkpad Z60t, undervolted to 1.004v at 1.73 GHz.
     
  29. kirayamato26

    kirayamato26 Notebook Deity

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    The users that reported 95C while gaming all had the 2720QM (or better) and a Quadro 2000M. That's 100W to dissipate, which is quite a bit for a single fan, which the W520 has.
     
  30. miro_gt

    miro_gt Notebook Deity

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    I do agree with Roger, and you all talking that 90+ deg C for a part in your laptop is fine then you must be pretty careless about knowing how electronics work reliably.

    after many interventions from my side, though not having an i-core CPU, my laptop tops at 72-73 deg C under full continues load on my dual-IDA-running CPU at 2.8GHz with full continues load on my 55% overclocked GPU, though both sit on the same heat sink.

    anything that passes the 80 deg mark for me is considered hot and needs improvement.

    I would run this stress test at some time, but with eliminating the heat from the GPU I dont think my laptop CPU will heat any higher than what it tops at right now, thought it may not even reach that when only one of two chips is heating the heat sink.

    EDIT: I will put my vote later, as it might be the only one in the 70 deg C range, lol
     
  31. sniper_sung

    sniper_sung Notebook Evangelist

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    T9500 is also in the 35W bracket. Unless T61 has got a much better cooling design than T60, you are not likely to get below 80C, because even when I newly replaced the TIM for my T7200 in my T60 I got 90C with LinX.
     
  32. sniper_sung

    sniper_sung Notebook Evangelist

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    Surprisingly, T420s with an i5 also hits 97C in LinX, and 93C in WOW (with Intel HD3000 integrated graphics card)
     
  33. floz23

    floz23 Notebook Evangelist

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  34. unreal25

    unreal25 Capt. Obvious

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    OK, then run your CPU @ TJmax. See how long that will work.
     
  35. kirayamato26

    kirayamato26 Notebook Deity

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    It'll work, just really slowly because Intel CPUs throttle to hell after hitting TJMax to keep temperatures down. :p
     
  36. floz23

    floz23 Notebook Evangelist

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    How long will it, exactly? I always hear people talk about how cool they like to run their processors, but no one really speaks of the actual scientific issues regarding how the cpu will degrade by heat, over time.

    I hear a lot of opinions and not a lot of actual scientific evidence.

    If cpu's thermally, function like my halogen lamps I use in my studio, running them at hot temps all day isn't really the issue, its the on and off heating cycles, that really kill them quicker.

    Also, I think it is the VOLTAGES, more so, that contribute to the degradation of the processors.

    If you have some evidence to back up the claim, then that's cool. Otherwise, intel's spec's say, under 100c and the processor will be well within its rated lifespan.

    As for the other person who was talking about throttling. Why do you make that funny face? In my cool office environment, when the cpu throttles, it throttles to 2.7 ghz. Is 2.7 ghz, hell?

    A lot of trash talk on this issue.
     
  37. kirayamato26

    kirayamato26 Notebook Deity

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    That just means that you've yet to exceed TJMax. Once you do, the CPU will throttle, a lot, and your computer may just shut down without warning.
     
  38. floz23

    floz23 Notebook Evangelist

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    Yes, I understand this. I don't expect to be maxing out this laptop, with its 35watt rated heatsink, to be out in the summer weather pushing 2.7ghz.

    In a cool, 72f environment, the heatsink and fan assembly can handle 2.7ghz for extended periods of time.
     
  39. floz23

    floz23 Notebook Evangelist

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  40. sniper_sung

    sniper_sung Notebook Evangelist

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    You are just completely ignoring my post on #21.
     
  41. Renee

    Renee Notebook Virtuoso

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    Sniper,

    Im sorry youre into Linux.

    Renee
     
  42. EZjijy

    EZjijy Notebook Geek

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    I hope you realize there is absolutely no relation between Linux and LynX...
     
  43. sniper_sung

    sniper_sung Notebook Evangelist

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    What? :confused: :confused: :confused:

    LinX is a simple interface to Linpack under Windows, and it has nothing to do with Linux...
     
  44. floz23

    floz23 Notebook Evangelist

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    Ok, your point is noted, I had forgotten about that earlier post. However, even as the wikipedia article notes, that is a purely abstract equation, not an actual physical model.

    I think intel's engineers were on to something, when they set their own Thermal Junction spec at 100c. As far as I understood, as long as your cpu is running at its rated speed, in this case 2.7ghz, rated voltages, and under the Tjunction spec supplied by intel, your cpu is running within its rated lifetime spec (which by the way is not published for this cpu).

    In all my years of overclocking, never have I once heard of anyone heat-killing their cpu (over-volting is another story). Even if you remove the cpu heatsink, the computer will shut down.

    In this case, we're discussing a MOBILE cpu, designed to handle higher stresses, and no overclocking.

    So what? the fan and heatsink assembly are rated to exactly 35watts. It hardly leaves headroom for the cpu to turbo up to 3.2/3.4 for extended periods of time (yes, this does suck), but claim that somehow, running the cpu constantly at its highest rated speed, within all intel specs is going to reduce cpu lifespan, is a mistaken view.
     
  45. miro_gt

    miro_gt Notebook Deity

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    sorry to disappoint, 79 deg C max

    http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2627/testlinx266.jpg

    this ^ was at stock 2.6GHz. Room temperature is 78 deg F. The CPU temp jumped from 71 to 79 deg C depending on which part of the test the program was running.

    at dual-IDA 2.8GHz I got 83 deg C max (jumping from 74 to 83). However, I dont use dual IDA often.

    - the above is with how my laptop works, so I havent done any mods just to run the test. I bet if I move my laptop at more open space (it sits at the corner of my desk, which is at the corner of the room) I will get lower temps.

    cheers
     
  46. sniper_sung

    sniper_sung Notebook Evangelist

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    That's nice temperatures but you haven't stressed your laptop enough:

    1) You have only run for 10 minutes, during which the temperature was far away from converged;

    2) Your problem size (memory usage) was too small that each run did not take long enough to finish thus your CPU took a break every 40 seconds.
     
  47. miro_gt

    miro_gt Notebook Deity

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    I think you're just jealous that your T60 hit in the 90s while mine is barely touching the 80s :D But one should be able to see from the screenshot that I posted why my temps are lower than usual. The 79 deg temp was hit in the first 30 sec or so, and overall the CPU ran at max temp over 75% of the time, so 10 min was plenty to figure out where it tops out.

    also, my room temperature is pretty high.

    either way, nice program to stress the CPU. I guess I will use it before Orthos for such purposes :) I have to admit that my CPU reached higher temps than what I thought it would before though :)
     
  48. AESdecryption

    AESdecryption Notebook Evangelist

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    I've tested my T61 (Intel Centrino T9300) and it reached 105c. I hope that I never have to push this computer to this point ever again (dual-IDA @ 2.7 Ghz causes my system to be extremely unstable).

    Number of threads: 2
    Memory usage: 1.5GB (half of what 32-bit Windows 7 detects)

    GFlops peak: 16.5533
     
  49. blackomegax

    blackomegax Notebook Geek

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    For science, post idle temps too. Measure the delta, not the max.
     
  50. AESdecryption

    AESdecryption Notebook Evangelist

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    Idle at > 100c and 0<=(Δtime)/(Δtemperature)<0.5.
     
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