When is...

Lenovo going to change thinkpad to ideapad?

 

Moment that happens, I won't be buying Lenovo anymore. I think it should be the other way around, make only ThinkPads and kill consumer end.

 

Cute. I doubt they will, but the design of Thinkpads might still undergo that more "consumer-style" design, however the business scalability, build quality and whatnot will still be present in the business models. You will never find a TPM inside a consumer-class laptop, for example.

@Tsunade

Disagree. Brands should have good consumer and business markets, however they should know how to separate both. Example, ditch 16:9 + chiclet on Thinkpads for business, but keep those on the Ideapad line for multimedia home users.

Anyways, amazed at how mods can't even lock a troll thread. tsk tsk.

 

Why would Lenovo ditch one of the most recognizable WinPC brand names? Or is that a sarcastic comment about the decline in quality of Thinkpads?!

 

I don't find that exactly true anymore, we recently got some demo models, our business usually buys 100 at a time every 2-3 years or so, but after looking at the newest models up close, it is safe to say we are going to go look at some alternative brands, these are no longer business oriented laptops.

also it is not a *troll* thread, it is user feedback about the current lineup, seriously what is lenovo doing to this lineup?

 

I'm curious what Thinkpad models your company looked at, why they were deemed unsuitable, and what alternative brands are being considered

 

We looked at some T series, specifically T440p/T440s, ordered a T540p haven't received it yet

and X240 from the X series

We are waiting for the new W series to come but now I don't think we will even consider it, especially with the numpad

I am not in our tech dept. (who usually decides what we will get) although as a company someone from each dept, gets to choose what type of laptop they need based on their needs,

We have been a long time supporter of IBM/Lenovo for our computer needs and as of right now we are considering either buying T420/X220 or looking else where, we have a month or so to decide before the new budget rolls in.

 

We have 10 years worth of Thinkpads in our office. The T440s is a seriously good one. The keyboard is different, but it's very, very good. Same with the touchpad. Same with the overall material quality. The screen is among the best ever offered in any Thinkpad if you get the FHD.

You would be crazy to go with the T420 series over the new models.

 

What performance differences are there in the T440s that are worth the price jump? In my opinion, if someone is going to shell out that much money for a T440s, they should expect 0 issues, well that isn't the case apart from looking at the style of the newer series, the quality is really shoddy for what you are paying. Especially when we can get a discounted wholesale price on the T420's.

Also forgot to mention that they took out workstation cards from the T series, basically turned it into a consumer laptop, by adding a fancy screen/different style touchpad, and a lousy geforce card, honestly, if they wanted to serve the consumer crowd, they should have added an raedon card instead, kill 2 bids with one stone since those cards can be used for work and consumer needs.

 

Sorry, but the chassis quality of the T440s is way better than the T420. The T420 feels in some ways like a toy IMHO compared to the T440s (especially the bottom material of the T420 really feels cheapish). Not even to mention the display-quality difference.

There are no issues with my T440s at all.

Former T-Series came with nVidia NVS GPUs, which were not workstation cards (these are the Quadro GPUs). These were average to low performance business GPUs. Their chips also were based on the GeForce GPUs, just with different drivers.

nVidia is no longer making mobile NVS GPUs so Lenovo had no choice but to put in the GeForce GPUs in the T-Series. They did not change this to serve the consumer market,

 

sorry, categorized the cards incorrectly, but my point is, they were way more efficient for cad and other applications, and offered an alternative to our engineers who did not want to carry around a W series everywhere they went, and the reviews on various websites disagree with your "no issues" with t440s, how can you even call a laptop undervolted processor a laptop suited for work? I am not sure about the price we are getting to purchase the currently line up, but configured to the same benchmark speeds as a t420

we are looking at $1300 dollars, the T420 (since we are paying a really low price) would probably only be used for a year, (maybe lenovo will go back to making business laptops or we will look at HP),

how are you going to even compare the T440s to a business oriented laptop when it's characteristics are very similar to consumer grade products, especially when you talk so highly about the build quality, when there is a wide amount of reviews from different sources, including my own handling of the laptop saying otherwise, there is clearly some dishonesty going on

 

T440s also costs more than your base spec T420, which is a workhorse laptop. Most T420 were sold with iGPU anyway, and NVS was never meant to be a hardcore Quadro solution, but an alternative to people who did not want to lug around the weight of a W series ThinkPad.

 

Maybe because I have both T420 and T440s in front of me in this moment (and because I have used the T440s since 3 months now)? Tell me, which characterisitics are similiar to a consumer notebook? Which consumer Notebook/UltraBook has a DockingPort, a SmartCard-Reader, a FingerPrint Reader, Steel-hinges or still ports like VGA? Or Carbon-fiber materials? The TrackPoint? Spill-Proof keyboard? There is none. Because ThinkPads were and still are business-focused Notebooks.

And please, tell me where are the many reviews stating the "issues" with the T440s. I can find many positive reviews about the T440s:
Review Lenovo ThinkPad T440s 20AQ-S00500 Notebook - NotebookCheck.net Reviews
Lenovo ThinkPad T440s Review - Best Business Laptop - LAPTOP
Lenovo ThinkPad T440S Review: Best in Business | NotebookReview.com

Then blame nVidia for it.

Because these are more than fast enough for most tasks today? Sure, if someone is an engineer, a full-voltage CPUs is very much needed. But for average work, ULV CPUs are more than enough. The battery life gain is impressive.

But obviously, the only thing that makes a business notebook a business notebook for you are Standard Voltage 37 W CPUs.

Good luck. You will need it, because HP does not produce any model anymore thats smaller than 15" that still comes with Standard-Voltage CPUs. All 14" and 12" models from HP now have those terrible "undervolted" CPUs, so I assume they aren´t buinsess notebooks for you as well. Lenovo has at least one 14" model left (the T440p) with Standard-Voltage CPUs (even Quad-Core CPUs are now an option, the T440p with the fastest CPU is 100 % faster than the T430 with the fastest CPU when it comes to CPU performance).

Thats correct, but there are still T440p and T440 as lower priced options.

The NVS chips were mostly terrible in performance. The NVS 3100M used in the T410/T510 was even weaker than the HD 3000 base GPU which was used in T420/T520. They were no real alternative for Quadro-GPUs, and mostly suitable for low-performance 2D/3D-GPU business applications. The difference to the GeForce GPUs should be very small, in games the Geforce is maybe a tad better, in business software maybe the NVS. But it does not matter anyway because the NVS chips no longer exist on the notebook market.

 

Seriously? CPU performance has held steady, but the chip consumes 1/4 the power!! Few users are CPU bound so this is a trade off well worth making in an ultra book. If you need more power, you should be looking at a different line. The battery life has more than doubled while in a smaller and lighter package. You go go from one of the worst screens in the business to one of the best.

You have to be kidding.

 

Because most work is not bound by CPU speed. People are more efficient by being freed from a power outlet.

The characteristics are not at all similar to a consumer laptop, and the fact that you think that light weight, good screens and good touchpads are only consumer concerns explains exactly why so many businesses are still using Blackberries today.

You said earlier that you don't make these purchasing decisions. For your co-workers sake, thank god.

 

Wake up, this has begun since the X230/T430 generation. The X240/T440 are already one step ahead.

 

x20 series had 16:9 displays. x10-x00 had IBM logos removed

 

Good remark
To me and others, the keyboard change is what really made Lenovo plunge. This time they didn't have the excuse of 3rd party manufacturers pressuring them to change their form factor (cf. widescreens).

 

True, though the chiclet keyboard is actually a very decent keyboard despite what most purists think.

 

I think most of the purists don't mind the new style, but the layout. All those changes and reallocation of keys is just creating super-mess.

 

Well, from someone who doesn't use Thinkpads, i can appreciate the new layout being more friendly from people who *don't* use Thinkpads, however i understand your concern.

 

IBM's contract to service Lenovo and website was terminated awhile ago.

 

IBM still handles the service and parts.

 

All new Lenovos for our tech shop were shipped to Lenovo. For a long time we sent them to IBM's EZServ.

 

In the process of getting my X220 replaced I've emailed and talked to them over phone the last couple weeks. They refer to themselves as Lenovo for the sake of not confusing customers, but it's still very much IBM.

 

It's a mix & match, really.

I'm certain that the reps who actually processed your replacement are Lenovo employees.

Atlanta is IBM. Memphis is Flextronics.

On-site techs are sub-contractors BUT they report (close the tickets out) to IBM and not Lenovo...

Most of the strings are pulled from NC, but...IBM is not out of the ThinkPad game quite yet.

Probably never will be if Lenovo knows what's good for them.

 

It's a mixture of both. The initial stages were all IBM. The middle stage in deciding whether or not to replace was mostly IBM, and having to get approval ($$) from Lenovo. The last stage is with Lenovo Sales in negotiating what the replacement will be.

 

So what did you end up with, if you don't mind me asking?

My most recent "warranty swap" was a X220 for the X61T (SXGA+) when they ran out of screens to replace my "bubbly" one...

 

We're still in talks about it.

Btw, I swung by CDW again today. Handling that T431s has me really nervous about the T440s purchase. If there's one word to sum up how it looks and feels, it'd be 'cheap. I hope the T440s is better in quality.

The new Thinkpad backlit keys feel disgusting as well. They're slimy out of the factory whereas my X220 keys are still fairly matte.

Last week I visited Best Buy to look at the current MBP again, but couldn't reconcile myself to the keyboard. It's a shame for all of us that are long time Thinkpad users (I started with the T42), it's only downhill within the Thinkpad line or externally after the T420/X220 generation. For others it's a case of ignorance is bliss.

 

Good luck.

The one and only reason that we ended up returning a top-shelf 8740W. Everything else was perfect or pretty darn close to it.

Macs require - in my opinion - a different mindset as well, and that's not an easy thing to obtain coming from a ThinkPad.

Happy hunting.

 

I had many ThinkPads and the T440s is one of the best. The build quality is perfect no cracking, no flexing. The Materials feel good. It has a magnesium/alloy bottom, internal magnesium roll cage and a carbon fiber lid. The trackpad is made out of glass and one of the best i ever used on a windows machine. The FHD IPS Screen is brilliant.

 

When I first pulled the T440s's out of their packaging, I was not impressed. I thought they looked and felt fine, but not fantastic as I was hoping. After living with them for a while, I have grown to really like them. It's my old T410s that feels really clunky and kind of cheap in comparison now. I am fairly picky about my keyboards (just ordered a custom WSD model for the desk) and I think the new one is every bit as good as the old (note that I care about feel and primary key spacing - not the location of function keys, etc) and if I had the choice, I'd choose the new style. Not everyone will agree, but this is by far my best Thinkpad yet - it really solves the issues every one of my old ones had - battery life, poor screen, mediocre touchpad, while not bringing any serious new issues to the table.

 

It seems that this particular model resonates well with a lot of people, including some oldtimers. While I'll never buy one, it does appear that Lenovo hit the bull's eye with this model.

That whole generation felt weird to me, touch-wise. Truth be told, they are not bad machines. I've grown to like them quite a lot...

Yep. For those who can live with the revised keyboard/trackpoint layout, T440s is a tempting offering. Definitely a more interesting - as well as possibly more polarizing to many users - than the previous generation...

Now if I could have one with the old keyboard/trackpoint combo - make it an island, I don't care - Lenovo would have already charged my credit card...

 

For years I used the Trackpoint exclusively, partially because it really was so good and partially because the Thinkpad touchpads were so bad. The new trackpoint buttons are definitely not as good as the old ones, but the touchpad is so much better that I don't really care. I use the touchpad 95% of the time and use the trackpoint when I need precision. I will say that I am adapting to both and many actions I could not perform reliably with the touchpad I now can, and I'm even getting used to the trackpoint buttons. Again, compared to what else is out there to be bought brand-new I can't think of a better implementation other than Apple's touchpad, where I still would occasionally miss the trackpoint.

 

Out of all the thinkpad's i've used, i've yet to still actually use the trackpoint

 

You're far from being the only one in that respect.

A vast majority of my co-workers - going back to the days when my employer utilized ThinkPads as a weapon of choice - used to carry a mouse with the laptop. This is the pre-touchpad era that I'm talking about.

Funny enough, nowadays I'm the one carrying a mouse on the rare occasions that I get to actually use my ToughBook...:hi2:

I can't see anyone using a TrackPoint while gaming, but then again whoever bought a ThinkPad as a gaming rig needs a major sanity check to begin with.

For any type of *serious* video editing, the red nub will not suffice as well.

Having said all of that, for my personal purposes - which are fairly limited in scope - nothing beats a TrackPoint...

 

And this is why i make fun of Jarhead when he suggest business notebooks for gamers in WNSIB.

No offence intended, if you're reading this

 

For me it's:

Touchpad: Web surfing, reading, writing documents, using the laptop in class, etc.
Mouse: Gaming, Video Editing, Making Powerpoint, Photo Editing, etc.

 

All I can say about this: You are definitly missing something. The TrackPoint simply is the best mouse input IMHO, and in my opinion, even good suitable for light strategy-games on the go. Much better than a TouchPad in some cases.

 

The only thing that I don't do from your list is gaming, apart from a session of Angry Birds here and there...:hi2:... TrackPoint all the way.

Classes...my trainees/students all use ToughBooks because that's what our employer provides and the day when our IT agrees to BYOD will be the day that dinosaurs come back...I doubt that I would see too many ThinkPads even if people were given a choice of bringing their own laptop/tablet...

 

My school is 65% Mac.

 

Once upon a time people got Macs to be different. Now MBPs are so ubiquitous, perhaps us Thinkpadders are the new counter-culture

 

I've seen 4 Thinkpads on my whole campus, and maybe around 5 ideapads (myself included)

TP:
- X1 Carbon Touch
- T430S
- T410
- X60t

IP:
- Y410p (me)
- U410
- U310
- P500
- Y470

Lenovo is not much of a big brand here, most of the campus is Dell and Apple.

 

My kids' school is 100% Mac...all computer labs and so forth. Ridiculous.

 

I wonder how these kinds turn out once they start using PC's in the real world

 

I guess thats one of the reasons why I am glad that I was not born and that I am not living in the USA (among several others, but these doesn´t matter here)

 

Neither am I, i've never been in the states for longer than 1 month

 

Well, my kids live in a Windows environment - with a sprinkling of Linux - and my daughter actually got to the point of preferring the latter. The boys have to develop a taste for it yet.

@ibmthink:

From one (transplanted) European to another: everyone should experience living in the U.S. for a while...nothing really compares. On many different levels...

 

I've never been to Europe, or outside of North America for that matter.

 

Time to start your travels, young man...