Why I HATE Lenovo

Well, some of you might already know:

I live in The Netherlands (yeah, that small country west of Germany) and just like in other European countries, the ThinkPad serie is OVERPRICED. But anyway, I want a T61. Paying more for it is not a problem, but not the idiot 70% more compared EU <> US.

The cheapest way for us Europeans to get a ThinkPad is to order one on a US webshop, pay $150 shipping, pay 19% VAT and still it's € 200 cheaper then buying in my own country.

I did a chat with Lenovo US and asked them why they don't ship international. They say: "Because or system won't let us enter international adressess, and our system does not accept international creditcards."

Offcourse that is big bull****. First; it's easy to edit the system so with will accept international adressess, 2nd; in Europa we mostly pay by wire transfer, so nothing about international creditcards.
They told me to contact Lenovo The Netherlands to ask them for prices. Well, I did, but they don't ship directly, they just send to their dealers. And then you see:

ThinkPad T60
512 MB ram
14" 1024x768
T2300E
"Now only € 1490"

That's just ridiculous!!!!

Al already told you: it's cheaper for us to import one from the States. (Powersupplies are autosensins 110-240V 50/60 Hz, warranty is international, so that's not a problem.)
So I saw a good prices (imho) T61 here:
http://www.pcconnection.com/ProductDetail?Sku=7630321
I saw they accepted international shipping, so I just gave them a call what the shippingcost would be for shipping a T61 to the Netherlands.

The woman on the phone told me: "We don't ship to The Netherlands." I told them that it's on their site that they DO ship to The Netherlands. So told me directly: "That's right, we do ship to the Netherlands, but no ThinkPads. We have a contract with Lenovo to not ship ThinkPads international."

WTF!!!!???

It seems that Lenovo even doens't want us as customers.

From techonweb I have already an e-mail with shipping/handling costs for shipping to NL. Apparently they don't have such a idiot contract?

 

one word..... eBay

Theres lots of retailers who are listed on eBay and they will ship anywhere. You may even get a better price!

 

Some brands have always been this way, and when people keep buying from abroad, then eventually the local branch will stop honoring international warranties...

 

Everything is more expensive in EU, cameras, cell phones, gas, software, etc. Take a look at how much Adobe is charging its EU customers, a full 50% markup from its U.S. prices! That's right, if you are inside EU, and download a copy of Adobe Photoshop CS3 from the Adobe website, you have pay 50% over Photoshop's U.S. retail price, even though it's costing Adobe nothing to send that software to you electronically. Go figure.

So don't just blame Lenovo for this.

 

Prices for Cell phones are small, and even if it't 50% and only 30 euros

Notebooks are more expensive than in the US, that's right, but other brands have normal/competitive prices here. Dell prices here are good. But Lenovo's prices here...

If I want to buy two of them it's cheaper to fly to the States to get one myself..

Only one (not from a retailer) on eBay.

 

I thought this had something to do with US laws and patent regulations? On every brand name PC/notebook I purchase outside the US, I get this large notice/warning in my purchase order which states that the product is specifically approved for sale outside the United States by the US government. Somehow, technology products meant for sale in the US cannot be exported. Afaik, a notebook is a notebook, or is there some extra hidden features in US versions that people in other countries are not entitled to?
Hence, Lenovo is not the only manufacturer affected by this. All technology suppliers seem to have this same policy.

 

Thinkpad prices have traditionally been high, even in the U.S. It wasn't until Lenovo took over IBM's personal computer division did prices decreases substantially here inside the U.S.

The kind of prices you are paying are the same kind of prices we Americans have been paying for Thinkpads for years, before the Lenovo takeover.

If you think prices are too high inside the EU, then you are more than welcome to make some semiannual shopping sprees to the U.S.

 

The same situation here in Spain... Both Lenovo and Dell sucks very much. Lenovo is absurdly expensive and Dell doesn't even offer all their models. Their "policy" pushed me to buy an Acer and I'm very happy with it.

 

How about the price of this T60 available in India:

Intel Core Duo Processor T2400 1.83GHz
Windows XP Professional
512 MB RAM
80 GB HDD
14.1" 1024x768
64MB ATI Mobility Radeon X1300

Price: US$ 3,232/- or Euros 2,405/- ... Taxes are extra

What is so special about the Thinkpads? Do they deserve this kind of a premium?

 

Well, they used to be VERY solidly built, best durable components. My son is still using my good old T20. I honestly don't know if it's different now, I'll tell you when I get my T61.
They do deserve a premium but of course not that much.
This particular config is worth $1000 max imho.

 

Agreed that they are very solidly built. But with these kind of prices what kind of customers is Lenovo trying to target? I can buy 2 Latitude D630s with much better configuration within the same price!

 

On the plus side, IF you can find a retailer here in the U.S. who will ship to Europe, your EUROs will go much farther with the current $-Euro currency exchange rate (great for you, lousy for those of us travelling to Europe this summer ). Even with shipping and tax, you might very well wind up paying less for the same machine than someone in the U.S. would!

 

Well, than we have a deal; you go on holiday to Europe, smoggle a T61 trough the custom authorities, deliver it to me and I will pay you 135% in dollars for it

A friend of mine is going to US this summer. Maybe he will buy a T61 for me.

One of you US boys should just start ordering T61's from lenovo.com and send them to us. I am fine if you count $300 handling/shipping..

 

Just remember it'll take about a 3 to 4 weeks after your order date for you to receive your laptop. So give it about a month's worth of lead time.

 

Nope. Air shipping; ~96 hours

 

Yeah, ibm/lenovo is very expensive here as well (Poland).
I think I'll try to get T61 through my relatives in California - they usually come here once a year... I need to check Lenovo warranty stuff first, though.

The other problem is, that there is a very short list of configurations available...
Oh well, I've already bought a guitar in USA, time to buy a notebook

 

The thing with the different prices are because there are different markets, it kind of sucks but companies still refer to different countries as different markets. The same type of thing occurred with lik-sang and sony. lik-sang was buying the hardware in japan and selling it in europe, this actually cuts some of sony profits because lik-sang stuff was cheaper than what they were going to price out in Europe. It really kind of sucks, but anyways good luck getting your laptop, I hope you get it.

 

And then they're significantly cheaper in East Asia than in North America.

 

Sometimes it's the opposite too. They may need to pass specific local regulations. The Thinkpads I get here have 802.11A disabled, and the packaging comes with a paper that says something like "Note to customs: Any 802.11A references in this packaging are for other countries only." Presumably if I hand carried a Thinkpad (or any other higher-end notebook) from abroad, I would be breaking local communications and wireless regulations.

 

lol. I hate to say it, but expensive Thinkpads are the price Europeans pay for having that insanely strong Euro of yours. I bet in the end, it's about the same.

 

This makes no sense. If the Euro is strong compared to the currency of the country where the manufacturer resides then things should be cheaper not more expensive.

 

Why don't you try opening a PO Box with the UPS store and have them forward the package to you once it arrives? This way you can get US pricing and not have to fly here. Here's the link with more info: http://www.theupsstore.com/products/maiandpos.html

 

Well, Lenovo says that the delivery adress has to match the adress of the creditcard holder..?

And I even don't have a creditcard! But I do have PayPal.

Lenovo sucks

They won't let me enter an international billingadress, they won't let me enter my Dutch phone number..

And they only accept American Express creditcard, what I can't get.

 

This is not true.

 

True for international orders. And your shipping address has to match some alternative card address, which is a joke.

 

So; mission impossible with UPS Store?

 

I totally agree, EU prices are ridiculous!

I live in Greece and last month I bought a T60 with the specs in my sig. I paid for it... 1900 Euros which translates to $2550. As I write this a T61 with identical specs costs $1440... That's 43% cheaper for a new T61 vs the old T60...

My next thinkpad will definately be bought from the US. Either with a trick like UPS store (there are other companies offering similar services like myus.com, us2me.com etc) or from relatives/friends of mine who live there!

 

And for that you can thank Al Queda and George Bush

 

I'd rather say thank "war" on "terror".

 

You should not blame lenovo for that. It's similar case with dell, hp, acer or any other companies.

 

No it's not!!!

Acer has a lot of €499 - €799 laptops here!

Best performance for money is a Dell Inspiron 6400 (the 15.4) for ~€1200 maxed out.

But Lenovo's prices are idiot. In the case of a ThinkPad having the same specs as a Latitude here, it will be € 500 more expensive.

So I DO blame Lenovo for it! They make a 45% more profit on EU sales.. is that fair?

And if I can't get a ThinkPad getting shipped to here, I can come and get one myself (If I buy two of them and sell them for EU price, then the flight costs me nothing!)

 

High prices, low availability of choice within model ranges and slow adding of new models..that's the UK for you. Thinkpads are worse than the budget range but nothing's good.

I ended up getting an HP Business Model via ebay and saved a good few hundred £ but I'm semi-regretting it as it's got 'issues' and the support is frankly useless and in the sub-continent.

You may well get what you pay for but there's limits. I hope things change for the better @ Lenovo UK.

 

I am sorry I beg to differ.

As I already mentioned in one of my post that you can buy 2 Latitude D630s for the same price as 1 Thinkpad T60. Plus, Latitudes have 3 years warranty as compared to just 1 year for the Thinkpad.. In my opinion no sane person will buy a Thinkpad in India.

As far as the Indian market is concerned, Lenovo is trying to promote its 3000 series notebooks and trying to woo the customers with fancy gizmos like tv tuner cards with remotes etc. As a business user I want none of these.

Most of the corporates have turned to Dell. They now prefer Latitudes over Thinkpad for their employees. When IBM was incharge the story was different. Of course 3000 series never existed then but you could see adverts of Thinkpads regularly in both the print media and the television.

Sadly the focus has now shifted towards the 3000 series.

 

This is a sad thread because it does indeed seem that Lenovo's marketing strategy for the Thinkpad in EU is all about profit and not at all about serving (or expanding) their existing customer base. Thinkpads in the U.S. under IBM were significantly more expensive than machines with comparable specs (but not -- it is true -- with the same build quality or great keyboard.) If you weren't in business or had access to student/educational discounts, you didn't buy one. This was one reason IBM sold the line to Lenovo; the business niche simply wasn't lucrative enough. Lenovo appears determined not to tread in the same footsteps. The new Thinkpads (especially the R series, but now the T series with T61) are designed more and more to appeal to mainstream consumers who want widescreens, firewire, media card readers etc... The consumer clout and large loyal business base in the U.S. is too important to lose, so Lenovo is keeping prices as low as possible and phasing out expensive options (like the IPS flexview screens) and 3-year international warranties (now available only on certain models) Everywhere else (and particularly India it seems) they are pushing their solid, but staid 3000 series. Oh you can still get a Thinkpad, but it will cost you.....

As a new owner of my first Thinkpad (T60) I find this disheartening...

 

Actually a strong currency should make things CHEAPER for them to import.

And by the way, it's not that the Euro is "strong", rather it's that the US dollar is extremely weak. It's been weak since the war, and the weakness is accelerating at an alarming rate now.

The US dollar is at record lows and/or near 40-year-lows against Euro, British, Asian, Canada, NZ & Aus... and still in freefall.

And the influential FX.com published a report today that the "greenback is headed for collapse"

 

How bout in Asia?
I live in Manila, and Lenovo laptops are very very expensive here (as well as most of the other notebooks.)
But you'll find a few smugglers here and there.
D6000t is Php70,000 pesos, or USD1520.

Would you guys know if these laptops are cheaper in Hong Kong / China?
That's where they make it!!!

 

When importing Thinkpads from the US be sure it is IWS eligible. You can check it on the Lenovo Warranty site.
These types has warranty in Denmark (and probably Europe):
1951, 1952, 2007, 2008, 8741, 8742, 6369. They are all T60 or T60p.
These models might be more expensive. As far as I know you can only get pre-configured systems.

Euclid Computers ships world wide. I do, however, not know if they will mark the price down.

If you are a student you can get a fairly cheap T60 from ok1.de. The p models are crazy expensive, though.

 

Rasmus, I think you're right. It's seems that customized ones are not warranty-covered in Europe.

I checked some t60 models here, but the price in Poland is roughly + 100% of US price (and that's excluding those special offers at lenovo)

 

Nope.. It's not cheap in Hong Kong either..

A T60 with Core Duo T2400 (1.83 GHz), 512 MB RAM, 80 GB HDD, 14.1" 1024x768, 64MB ATI Mobility Radeon X1300, Win XP Prof. costs US$ 3,030/-

 

That $1432 T61 from Euclips looks great:

Core 2 Duo T7300 2.0GHz, 14.1, 1440x900, 120.0G, 1024MB, DVD-Multiburner, 56K Ethernet 10/100/1000 802.11a/b/g/n Bluetooth, 5.3lbs, 3 years, Vista Business, Fingerprint reader 6-cell Battery 1GB Turbo Memory, New


But imo they can keep that fingerprintreader and give me a 7 cells battery. Hope that the WiFi is the Intel one.

$1432 T61
$ 272 importtax
$ 150 shipping (I guess)
________+
$1854
=
€ 1378
2nd GB ram: € 33

 

What the hell??! International Warranty, however not in Denmark?! Rasmus er du dansker?

 

Crap #$%^&*

 

First of all, Lenovo does not suck! Second, the only reason why ThinkPad's are more expensive than other brands is because they're premium products they have the best quality compared to other brands. Third of all, the only reason why most of the corporates have turned to Dell is because they're cheap, they don't know that ThinkPad's have better quality than Dell, they just went for Dell because the prices are lower. So stop saying that Lenovo sucks because they don't.

 

Let's take a look at how the world consumer goods market operates.

For most consumer products that are distributed internationally, there are geographical region specific distributors that are responsible for the distribution of that particular consumer product within that geographical region.

For the sake of simplicity, let's assume there is one Lenovo distributor for Europe, and there is one Lenovo distributor for the U.S. Each regional distributor makes a certain percentage of profit from all the Lenovo branded computers sold within that geographical region. And in turn, a percentage of that profit is set aside annually towards paying the bills for warranty repairs for computers bought within that region. In addition, Lenovo global corporate may also allocate a certain amount of money to each regional distributor to cover warranty repairs based on region specific sales figure.

Now, knowing a little bit about the economic aspects of regional distribution and warranty repair, do you think it makes economic as well as legal sense for Lenovo Europe to cover warranty repair for Lenovo branded computers that are bought in the U.S.? First of all, Lenovo Europe made no profit from a computer that is bought in the U.S. Second of all, Lenovo Europe only received a preset allocated amount from Lenovo global corporate to cover warranty repairs based on sales figures within Europe.


Granted, I don't have the slightest idea why Thinkpads are so much more expensive in Europe compared to the U.S., but I think calling Lenovo "suck" simply because Lenovo Europe will not service a Thinkpad purchased in the U.S. borders on childishness.


In addition, for those of our forum members who reside in Europe that intend to take advantage of the price difference, if you purchase a Thinkpad from within the U.S., I think you are ethically as well as legally obligated to pay the European VAT. After all, all the stellar EU nation social services programs are funded to a large extent by proceeds from the VAT. But being an average human that wants to save a few bucks here and there I wouldn't call you "suck" if you just happen to experience some momentary amnesia when you are filling out your VAT declaration form and fill in a value of $200 instead of $2,000, but I digress...

 

So true... I cried

 

Ye, I'm spanish too, and Thinkpad are quite expenive here
The only R61 I've found in Spain:
http://www.optize.es/servlet/LENOVO_THINKPAD_R61_7732_-_CORE_2_DUO_T7_324819_optize.html

1.064,54 €in US$: 1429
a bit expensive, but not too much

T60 is too expensive here (more tahn 1450 €

Edit: yes, it's not a Lenovo only problem. And not only in notebooks (check Palm prics in Europe)

 

First of all, ok, Lenovo doesn't suck, but their European manager does (and so does the European manager of EVGA (I know from experience)).

2nd; The reason why they should service my US-bought machine in Europa is easy: mouth to mouth publicity. If they won't; then I will tell my friends here to NOT buy a ThinkPad, that would cost them more then reparing my machine. (I don't believe I will ever need warranty, if ThinkPads are that great ). And if I need warranty I don't have a problem to pay a 100 euros.

Third of all: I just ordered a T61. Don't know whether Euclid Computers does have it in stock or not, but if they have, I will be the first one in The Netherlands with a T61 I guess

Then Lenovo US can give some money to Lenovo EU to repair

EDIT: just got on the phone with Euclid Computers: They have my T61 in stock, and the Ultrabaybattery within 2 days. It's a prepay order so it's waiting for the baked air ($1667,49) to arrive there

 

Hey jcvjcvjcvjcv congratulations, you made it

 

Thanks. Did you already receive your X60?

Gonna directly add an extra GB of RAM once it's here
Not sure about buying a dockingstation. Will they release a new model docking for the T61? And ofcourse a backpack to take it with me

 

i don`t understand why jcvjcv wants to pay $ 1667,49 for a thinkpad t61 that comes all the way from the states when it`s on sale on diskidee.nl ( it`s in your homeland the Netherlands dude ) for only 1076, 00 euro. thats something like 1400 us dollars.

???