Why I returned my T420 after 1 week

Cons.....

(1) Right from the get go, my system was not snappy. Programs (All of them) started up slowly including IE8/9, Battery Extend program/Toolbox, Word, etc that I had to wait and wait for it to open. With the i5-2540 and 6 GB of memory one would think it would open quickly. Watched a few reviews on YouTube and what I saw was some fairly fast load up times for programs, but not mine.

(2) Screen ? Goodness, I gave it a chance. At first I did not mind the lousy small viewing angle, but over time it did bother me, since I use the notebook on my lap in a chair or plane. I had to make sure the angle of the screen was just right, and could not move my head or legs one bit or it would go off the ideal viewing angle and had to keep adjusting. Not good and this is what turned me against the system the most. It was bright, but only if one cranked up the brightness but that took a power drain hit. 13 would be the least setting for me. I like it bright.

(3) Some have reported fast boot up times, but not (55 seconds up to 1 min 5 seconds) for me, even after uninstalling some programs and stopping some process from "Service" which also included a few Start Up programs as well. With the 7200 rpm 320Gb HDD I had and Lenovo Enhanced Experience 2.0, one would think the system would boot up faster. Maybe it would have if I opted for the SSD instead. Unknown, but a disappointment just the same. 10 second boot up that had been anounced by Lenovo was not what I experienced or close to it. Maybe I did something wrong ?

The Shut down time was about 9 seconds, which was the best part, no complaints.

(4) Had trouble with burning the rescue and recovery CD/DVD, but finally got it made. Unknown if it would work or not when needed. Last disk towards the end gave me a disk error, and this happen twice. Finally the third try it went thru. This was not a real complaint, but a concern.

(5) Battery Power program could be better. Too many settings one can opt for and confused me at first and took time playing with it to find the best power setting for my taste.

(6) Price Match. Nothing to do with the system, but I called twice and one email asking for a price match, and was told it would take 48 hours. 7 days later and still Lenovo did not give me the price match and the tech I spoke to could not understand this either. Too late since I returned the system and it is now 8 days and still no price match. Disappointed. It would have given me $166.00 off the original price. Also too bad that I had to pay the 15% re-stocking fee, but its my money.

Pluses...

(1) Quick shut down time.
(2) Solid construction.
(3) Great keyboard to work with.
(4) Good support. Used it once only, so unknown if that would be constant.
(5) Not too heavy, but wish it was a tad lighter. At home, no big deal. On the road it could go either way.
(6) FingerPrint reader was a joy to use since I dislike typing in passwords.
(7) Integrated video was just fine for me watching some movies/YouTube. No games played.
(8) Speakers were good, not great. Did not expect better for a notebook, but the sound for movies was more than enough for me.

Others may gloss over some of my complaints and reason for the return. But when you have to view the system and work with it on a daily basis, the system has to be right for the individual.

Hearing more of the X220 IPS screen, I think that one would be best for my 65 yr old eyes. Just hope after some more reviews from users with this X220, I can pull the trigger and get it. No hurries at this time, which I should have listened to myself early on for the T420.

 

The screen issue is a valid one and lets face it these crappy screens ruin everything. With a decent screen the T420 would be my first choice.

You may also want to check the E420 which has some kind of new vibrant view screen which is supposed to be somewhat better. Trouble is I haven't seen one in person.

I am leaning toward the x220, but something is telling me to wait. Mostly my wife.

 

About the lagging when opening programs etc., did you consider clean installing the OS? Maybe that would have helped. I recently bought a X201 (as in the sig) and it came with all the ususal stuff including the EE 2.0. I swept it all out. Re-installed the OS and my programs. But I do use some of the ThinkVantage software (like System Update and Power Manager), which I also installed. But after doing this, things were just fine - programs opened quickly, startup and shutdown times were snappy and everything - as far as I can see - works perfectly.

But in the context of your other comments/ observations, I can see why you sent back the T420. Hope you have a good experience with the X220 when you decide to buy it.

Cheers!

 

dosent win 7 get faster after a week or so? i've certainly noticed large improvements with boot time etc after a week as it learns your usage patterns etc.

 

Yeah...sorry, I should have mentioned that. I have heard that too. But since I prefer the clean install, I do it anyway.

 

btw i've been rather impressed by the lenovo software, other than the popup bug that i managed to solve, its been very frugal with resources, certainly light years ahead of anything i've seen on dell's and acers, not too sure about HP.

 

The screen issue(s) are going to hurt Lenovo and the other OEMs. I don't understand why they are making or buying the screens they are today. Every time I fire up the T61p and look at the 15.4" 1680x1050 screen I wonder why they would want to change that.

 

what laptops have you used in the past? were there any that you find acceptable?

 

also maybe you should check your power settings, some of the profiles are geared towards power saving. even the maximum performance profile on my x201 had some settings that were lower than max, check that.

but i agree, i could not live with a screen that crappy....its shocking really.

 

Don't think so... With a forum filled with topics about sub par screen quality and even more topics about how much people hate the new 16:9 screens and X220 1366x768 res, people still seem to line up to get a T420(s) or X220.

 

I guess we'll see. If Lenovo growth stalls, this might have been a factor.

 

well i dont think anyone has a choice about the res, since the move to 16:9. a crappy screen however, could result in higher than average returns and they will respond to that.

 

It's always like that. People are bragging about 1366x768 on 12,5" - yet other people buy home laptops with 1366x768 on 15,6" with a smile. It's impossible to satisfy everyone. Yet, I also wonder why Lenovo is using these displays in its highest class of notebooks. They showed they can do better than that many times... yet they don't do it.


M.

 

I would say its will be one of many factors. I'm starting to believe Lenovo is definitely no IBM when it comes to business style laptops. They should have kept the X and T series as they where (16:10) and use the fancy 16:9 for their consumer/multimedia/cheap/available in Pink!/no trackpoint series

I yet have to find the first report, document, PID or contract in a 16:9 format. Until I do, bad call Lenovo..

 

Honestly speaking, they could stick to 4:3...

This tendency drives me nuts. I've been shopping for a budget LCD monitor for my office, and finding a 16:10 22" model is troubling, at least. I am glad Eizo is still making 16:10 displays and is not going to switch soon.

 

i think you'll find that the manufacturers stopped producing them, and the laptop manufacturers didnt have a say in the matter as the volume of lcd's for laptops was small in comparison to HDTV's thus supplier power came into play

 

So... basically you returned it because of a lousy Windows config?

 

Sure they could, just so long as they were willing to become their own LCD manufacturer or pay several hundred dollars per panel...

 

Yes, I am aware of that. That's why I expect Eizo to go the same route one day... they are not making their own displays either.


M.

 

I don't know why people are complaining like Lenovo Thinkpad is the only business laptop that have moved to the 16:9 format...

 

Are there any other 14 in laptops out there that does come with a good screen?

 

Apple is not only still 16:10, but they also have contrast ratios 2-3x better than everyone else even at small sizes. I'm disinclined to believe the pleas of "we cant help it" from manufacturers

 

True, but maybe because this is the Lenovo part of Notebookreview forums?

Anyway.. Lenovo could continue making 16:10 or even 4:3 laptops, but they will be very expensive. Then again, if they would come with a T61 remake (same exterior but with Sandy Bridge, SSD, IPS, 16:10 screen and better battery life) people might be willing to pay for this. At the moment it looks like they want to compete with the consumer notebook market, even with the T and X series.

I'm baffled, nobody likes to watch a 16:9 (or even 21:9) movies on a 4:3 television, yet they expect you to type portrait mode documents on a landscape mode screen?

$10,000 question, are there any 16:10 or 4:3 laptops still being made? (Besides Apple)

EDIT: Corrected 'Santa Rosa' to Sandy Bridge (thnx lead_org)

 

Apple has crazy manufacturing contracts and their products cost WAY more than everyone elses. That's how they still have 16:10. And it's not like they are going to stick to 16:10 forever, some of their products already have switched over.

 

Damn. If the screen is that bad, looks like I'm returning it...

Real shame. I use my notebook for everything. Movies when I'm at the airport 2-3 times a year and at home. Don't get me wrong, most of my uses were going to be school stuff. But at some point, the screen is allowed to be only so bad!

 

It's not so much that Apple laptops cost a ton more than their counterparts as much as it is that by having only a few models selling at any time they can leverage this into significant buying power that only HP might have the muscle to match. When Apple puts out an order for their 13" MacbookPro screens, they can safely go to a supplier and order a million of them. Since ordering in such large numbers gets them a discount, they can opt for a higher quality display than their competitors while not having to incur the cost impact of the higher quality display.

This is in addition to the fact that Macbooks have the reputation for being high quality and having a quality display is part of that image. I think that the fact that Macbooks have a history of being used by a large chunk of media professionals plays into this as well.

 

Still cost is the main issue imo, Sony new SB is cheap but the display is really bad, they did better in the past for an higher price tag, at the end of the day it's up to them to decide of their strategy. On the other hand, Samsung 9 Series has an even better display than the MBA, but people are saying that it's overpriced...

 

Santa Rosa? You can get the T61 with Santa Rosa chipset.

Lenovo and like most tier one computer companies are just answering the calls of corporate and business sectors on cheaper computers...

 

Didn't think I would need to do a clean install, but to rid the hard drive of most of the bloatware, or programs that I would never need, in addition to the "Services" that I disabled. Thought wrong I guess. Should not have crawled when opening some simple word programs or IE, but it did. This was also not a game ending issue for me, just a disappointment.

My desktop is normally faster at boot up after a number of days or week as well. Knew this might happen with the T420 but with EE 2.0 on the system, I thought it would boot faster right out the gate, not blazing fast but at least not slow either.

I've had a Dell notebook years ago so I cannot comment on that which I can't remember, but I have used notebooks from Toshiba/Sony not too long ago, and the programs come on quickly as well as booting up. Not the case for this one for some reason. I want to stay with Lenovo for its built quality. Do not want a gaming notebook or fancy looking one either.

I checked the power settings over and over again. Ever since day one, programs would be slow to open. Did checked the settings for what you pointed out that some settings would still need adjusting. Still a none starter for me.

Not at all. The MAIN reason was the screen that for my age was not up to par that I hoped for. IPS screens would be the one's I will look at and the X220 seems to be promising. Will read as many reviews from the Users on this prior to a purchase, not to mention a good SALE promotion as well

 

I think y'all are just being picky. Go buy a macbook pro.


My X200 had a terrible screen, but it was livable and vibrant, so i kept it around.
The T410 ive seen had a beautiful screen (crappy angles, but everything else was good).

I dont know what y'all DO with your thinkpads, but as tools, they work fine.

 

I was almost going to say something like this in a previous post, but honestly aren't the vast majority of their purchases from big corporate buyers, who really don't care much about screen quality? They may demand good support and a product that will last, but I'm not sure that LCD viewing angles would be a deciding factor in many cases.

Plus, reports are conflicted on whether the T420 screen is any worse than previous 14" T series models.

 

The thing I don't get about this explanation is this: it's not as if they're using the same LCDs for HDTVs and laptops. The sizing is completely different. Maybe there are still economies gained somewhere due to 16:9, but it's not clear where.

 

It has to do with how the panel are cut. All lcd start of with one large screen. When they switch to 16:9 there won't be much waste material when cutting the large mother panel. They are using the same machine to produce the mother panel as for the HDTV to save cost.

 

apple is pretty much the most cash rich company in the industry, so even with their small market size, they are able to throw their weight around when it comes to supply contracts which are longer term plus it takes a while for the suppliers to completely reconfigure all their facilities/production lines, and with apples relatively small volume there is still enough supply, cant say the same thing for lenovo,dell, et al.. and yes, you will see the transition happen for apple soon.

read the post re:cutting

i've seen it side by side with the T400 and T410, its brighter, but who cares because the image is grainy. i dont really see any difference with viewing angles, all of them are pretty lousy compared to the dell latitudes

 

I suppose I can see a lot of your problems. I solved them by buying a W520 with the FHD screen and than added an SSD. Yes EE 2.0 is more marketing that real. The SSD solves that.

I do think the T420 is a laptop for someone on a budget and honestly I don't see the big savings. If you want light and good it is the X220 with the IPS screen and definitely add or get an SSD. If you want power, light and good, get the W520.

The T420 has got way too many limitations for me. It appears to be a 2008 machine introduced in 2011.

Perry

 

We agree that the FHD on the W520 would have none of these issues right? Because thats the main reason I am not getting the T420 with a Quad (As I would rather like a smaller laptop, but I want a decent screen!)

 

That seems like a very exaggerated statement. If that were the case I don't think anyone on this forum would have bought one.

 

The Thinkpad L420 has a pretty good screen FWIW

 

so which Dell Latitudes have this amazing screen quality? Most of them i have seen is pretty much similar to the T400 with the LG LCD panel.

 

I LOVE everything about this laptop but the 768 is a show-stopper for me. 900 and I would be ready to pull the trigger the first time this one shows up on slickdeals. Over 900 and I'd be lined up to pay retail.

Meanwhile I'll wait to see what Sony comes out with - I love their monitors and high res squeezed onto small screens.

People do care. I don't understand why Lenovo doesn't recognize this. It will hurt them.

 

Some people do care. Most businesses don't. Individual enthusiast buyers aren't Lenovo's market, and Lenovo *does* recognize this. I don't think it'll hurt them.

 

+1 with most of the content, except that i think that Lenovo might even tacitly acknowledge that the displays on the thinkpad line may not be enough for a certain type of consumer which is why they offer something different with their other lines.

i have to laff a bit at all the posturing by posters here who say i'm not buying a a thinkpad with a TN display because they're horrible, yadda, yadda, yadda.

the thinkpad displays are pretty much on par with the ones offered with other *business* laptops from Dell, hp, etc. yes, yes...i get that it some of you find them insufficient and won't buy one, but the truth of the matter is you're probably not going to find another quaility business laptop with the same build quality, support longevity, etc with a significantly better screen at a similar price point.

the IPS in the x220 might be the start of an exploratory willingness by Lenovo to offer a display upgrade in some of their thinkpad models. but the bread-n-butter of their thinkpad customers are business users and i can tell you after having used thinkpads for more than a decade that the displays are better now than they were even as recently 2-3 years ago and that they're more than adequate for the job.

those of you who say their previous laptops had better displays...i'd love to know what models they were. they were probably not business-grade laptops (in which case you're comparing apples to oranges) or they're rose-tinted exaggerations. i've seen a few of the new latitudes and a couple of the new HP releases including their well-regarded new laptop tablet and they're nothing special imo.

so if you think you'd rather get a vaio or an apple with a nicer screen, go ahead and buy one and stop your belly-aching about the thinkpad displays. we've heard it all before and frankly, we can't help you. we're all just consumers like you.

 

I dont think I have ever owned a computer that came from the factory with a "speedy" software setup. Heck even my decked out m17x was slow when I got it and required a reformat. Like all computers I buy a reformat changes everything performance wise.

 

Aside from the screen, I'm trying to figure out what "limitations" you speak of.

The T420 has Sandy Bridge processors considerably faster than anything but the top-end CPUs of 2008. SSD options are available, including a new mSATA option that is quite innovative for its time. Optimus switchable graphics as an option, and Intel integrated graphics faster than anything previously available. The latest options in wireless networking. Option to have up to three storage devices (if you use the Ultrabay). It's well-rated for battery life. To put it this way, in 2008, the ThinkPad T400 was top-of-the-line in this segment. What does the T420 do more poorly than the T400, and what features does it lack that other 2011 business laptops in the same market (i.e., the Dell Latitude E6420) have?

Your statement seems so overly dramatic to me that I don't know where to begin.

 

With no disrespect intended, if you'd like to buy a Sony laptop rather than a ThinkPad --you were never in the market ThinkPads are targeted at in the first place. Sony laptops may look beautiful, but if you put a Vaio and a ThinkPad T-Series through the rigors that a business notebook goes through (i.e., travel, constant shoving in and out of a bag, heavy, rigorous day-to-day use) and brought them back to me after a year's time, I'd know which laptop would be in better shape.

 

I think the IPS exists on the X220 for one reason: the tablet has it. ThinkPad tablets have always had IPS (it's basically a requirement for a tablet to be usable). I would be willing to bet that the X220 IPS and the X220t use the exact same panel, which means that Lenovo had to source it anyway whether or not they offered the IPS option on the X220.

 

except that the hole in that your reasoning is Lenovo never offered the tablet IPS display on their non-tablet mainstream model (non S or T).

there's more to their decision about offering IPS on the x220 than the mere fact that it's simplifies their ordering process.

 

If the X220 is the volume model and the X220T is more of a niche product, then it starts to make sense. Lenovo may now source enough 12.5" TN displays for the U260 and E220s that reducing the volume used by the X220 may not substantially affect their pricing, but offering the IPS display on the X220 may increase the quantity enough to bring the cost of the IPS part down. It works something like this:

No IPS option on the X220 -> 120k 12.5" TN displays per month for U260/E220s/X220, 10k 12.5" IPS displays per month for X220T

IPS option -> 80k 12.5" TN displays per month for U260/E220s/X220, 50k 12.5" IPS displays per month for X220T and optional display on X220

In this case the pricing of the TN display won't dramatically differ, but the impact on the price of the IPS panel will be noticeable. These are made up numbers, but hopefully it gives everyone an idea as to why Lenovo may have started offering this option.

If response to the IPS panel option on the X220 is good and the take rate is high enough, they may decide it's worth it to offer it as an option on other products too. The size that would make the most sense next is 14.0" as it would offer an advantage for the T420s versus other business thin-and-light notebooks. The rumored IPS display on the X1 certainly lends credence to the idea that Lenovo is starting to see IPS as a way to differentiate its products. Offering the optional IPS on the X220 turns out to be an easy way of testing market response to the idea.

 

absolutely true, there's no doubt in my mind that by offering the same display with two models leverages into better pricing from their suppliers.

however, they could just as well as choosen to stick with regular TN displays which costs them less, thereby increasing their profit margin per unit.

i think that lenovo saw an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone, eg. offer an upgraded display which they can negotiate good pricing on due to economy of scale while gauging the level of interest in the market for this type of upgrade. i doubt that they're totally insensitive to a segment of the market which wants a higher end display (who've been buying the macbook, vaio, etc), just that they're be naturally cautious on a strategic approach on how to do this.

the IPS option might mark the start of a revision in their thinking...

 

"The screen issue(s) are going to hurt Lenovo and the other OEMs. I don't understand why they are making or buying the screens they are today. Every time I fire up the T61p and look at the 15.4" 1680x1050 screen I wonder why they would want to change that."

Actually, as I heard it, few of the individual manufacturers were in favor of 16X9 screens. This was forced upon the manufacters of notebooks by the desire of screen manufacturers to standardize on a singular and cheaper to supply screen size.

Thinkrob:"Sure they could, just so long as they were willing to become their own LCD manufacturer or pay several hundred dollars per panel..."

Exactly.

Renee