Why all the "Owners threads"

I'm interested in computers and admittedly I dont read on the X series machines but other than that I do read and the owner threads mess that up. I have a t61p running xp and a W520 running 8.1 and when I used to participate, these owner threads didn't exist.
Renee

 

It's useful to find information on Computer X if there's a "Computer X Owners' Thread". Plus, people like associating with other like-minded people.

 

I think there is a little problem here. I used to check New Posts search to find threads to help and now I almost don't bother due to owner's thread is every second there or more. Also I used search "Unanswered threads"... no more button.

 

"Like minded people"? Sounds like prejudice. And I wholly agree with "James D" above who said:. "I used to check New Posts search to find threads to help and now I almost don't bother due to owner's thread is every second there or more. Also I used search "Unanswered threads"... no more button."
Renee

 

"It's useful to find information on Computer X"

It's makes it impossible to find specific information on a processor. Have you looked at the owner threads lately?
Renee

 

There is a hardware session for general hardware question.

And, I guess owner have better answers for most questions than non-owners ?

 

By "like-minded", I mean they all own the same computer.

Anyway, wouldn't it just be easier to look up spec information on Lenovo's website? Personally, I see the owners' threads being more useful for tech support and advice rather than looking up spec information. Just my two cents. I have seen some of the threads (I'm in the W520 one, and was in the W530 one for awhile when I had a review unit), and they aren't well-organized (at least the ones without a Table of Contents in the first post). But personally, I either ask a member posting in such threads about which page certain information is on, or I just do a Google search on the thread.

 

" I either ask a member posting in such threads about which page certain information is on"

In all due respect, what if everyone did that? Your asking really dilutes the information density just by your asking.

Renee

 

There's the PM option...

(Also, there's a "Reply with Quote" button)

 

" went to a thread that I think is the W520 thread (but im unsure and this is the very first comment in the thread):

"Ordered the top spec model of this on the first day and thought it was time to start an owner's lounge as the other thread is full of a lot of posts regarding getting discounts on the machine."

(Bolding mine)

Renee

 

Hi Renee :hi2:

If you have not heard of the ThinkPads Forums give it a try. The forum contains a treasure-trove of ThinkPad-related resources as well as a bevy of nice and helpful people

 

The TPF is an excellent resource. Some of our members over there also post here as well.

It's a very good resource to have handy and the community is very helpful.

 

The owner's threads are both a blessing and curse. On the hand they concentrate information in one place instead of having the same questions asked and answered repeatedly in the forum. On the other hand, they get so large, it can be hard to find things, though the NBR search ability has improved some of late.

 

I don't like them because they're so huge and unwieldly and information gets lost in them. If it were up to me, I would not allow them.

 

THIS.


The Owners Threads gets way too long, bogged down, and very hard to follow. They are good at first, when the new machines come out, and you want to see what the new owners think of them, but after a month or two, forget it. They get to be 20+ pages long, and very hard to follow.

 

As to me nobody asks you to follow) But there should be some real separator between those and other threads in Forum fast search links.

 

"I don't like them because they're so huge and unwieldly and information gets lost in them. If it were up to me, I would not allow them."

I agree JanetL. It's beginning to appear as if the owners thread are for people who aren't really interested in computers....just the products they own.

Renee

 

Here's a novel solution: when you see the term "owners' thread" in the thread title, don't click on it.

 

Actually, it's "damned if you do and damned if you dont. Anyway one looks at it, the reader looses with owner threads. One can not find information in them. They are definitely for lay people who are not interested in computers.
Renee

 

Relax.

 

I own a W520. The owner thread is 520 and pages long. Of what?

Renee

 

It's got a bunch of stuff all over.

-----------

If you don't want to use any of the owners' threads, simply don't visit them, don't subscribe to them, etc. Simple enough, no?

 

In addition to right when a model is new and you're looking for reviews of it, the Owners' Threads are useful when you are still using a laptop that has become old. I find the Inspiron 1520 Owner's Thread quite useful, as it's an easy place to check to see if there is any new info about my by-now-old laptop, and many of the NBR users who still run this model check that thread regularly, so it's a quick place to get an answer if you do have a question.

In between the "new model, read reviews" and "old model, makes it easy to follow all new info" I can see where it would be less useful than multiple threads. It probably also matters a fair amount how well-organized the first post is. The 1520 Owners' Thread has a very good first post (which has been updated a few times) that makes it easy to find the most commonly-asked questions, such as what upgrades are possible. It also does have some advantages over the official documentation, as it covers upgrades that aren't officially supported, such as 6 GB of RAM being used.

But yeah, there's no point in trying to read all 520 pages of an owner's thread. I don't think anyone really expects someone to have read thousands of posts in a thread before making a new thread or post asking if anyone has an answer to their question.

 

They work well when there's a directory and pertinent, up-to-date info in the opening post(s) of the "owners" threads. Otherwise, as JaneL said, "they're so huge and unwieldly and information gets lost in them." They are about as organized as a Facebook page (hint: not at all).

Examples of Owner's threads that work(ed) very well*:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-envy-hdx/515212-hp-hdx-9000-dragon-owners-lounge-part-2-a.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-envy-hdx/633055-hp-envy-17-17-3d-3xxx-series-owners-lounge.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-envy-hdx/648067-hp-envy-14-spectre-3xxx-series-owners-lounge.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-...beats-1xxx-series-owners-lounge-part-iii.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...icial-alienware-18-owner-s-lounge-thread.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/ali...fficial-m18x-r1-r2-owner-s-lounge-thread.html

There's a bunch more. But the one's maintained by either mods or dedicated forum members work the best.

A solution would be to encourage the creation of "guides" for specific aspects of a particular model. There are some exceptional guides made by forum members in almost every section. Some used to get stickied. The wealth of information in many of these guides is priceless and really enhanced one's ownership experience.



*Yeah, I tooted my own horn listing the one I created first. 'cause I cool like that.

 

Ah... I have a ThinkPad
My question is did you take that picture in your avatar? Where was it? I'm a big hummingbird fan and have LOTS of hummer pics I've taken on my website:
Hummingbirds

 

At one time, THIS forum was a great forum populated by people interested in computers. Let face it, 520 pages is a bit much and most of it is, "Oh I got my 520 today". So what? This forum used to have no owners threads and used to impart good technical information.
Renee

 

OK, there is nothing wrong with someone saying "I got my 520 today! They are excited... they want to share! :hi2:
Let me explain some things about forums. I have been a member here since 2006 and I have ran a Corvette forum for over ten years... and what keeps a forum going besides getting info, tips, is comradeship from owning something similar as another person, or just a place to hang out, like the local bar..etc.It is EXCITING whenever one gets a new or used machine for the first time and they like to share. On my Corvette forum, I made some great friends that I even went from the west coast to east coast to visit from time to time. I got a new Corvette one says.... he is excited and wants to share. Why do you think they have Corvette shows around the country? Haven't really done that on this forum, mostly because I was pretty busy with that Corvette forum. Anyways, sure... most folks come in for info, but many look forward to sharing info etc. Nothing is forcing you to stay in a particular section or area. If you use search, you will find whatever you need soon enough.

So relax and just use the forum the way you want it... but don't try to force it to be what you want it to be. Myself, I've enjoyed this forum over the years and why I keep coming back.

 

And that was also in a time before the social media mindset... set in. If we were to ban owner's threads, surely you don't think things would return to how they were?

You'll just end up getting threads titled, "My 520 arrived!" and a bunch of congratulatory posts (aka "likes" in text form) as well as others reporting the same. Then when those participants who now own it discover this or that or they or would-be owners have a question, they will ask in those threads. And thus a micro community forms.

The best way to get technical discussion that interest you, is to start a focused technical thread. (Avoid titling it "Here be technical discussion for model XXX. For noobs, that means read only." Be very specific about what you want to discuss.)

But again, given the social media mindset most have, expect tangential, community bonding posts to occur... anyway.

Welcome to the new internet.

BTW, just out of curiosity, what exactly are you looking for? I mean specifically? For instance, how to tweak GPU performance or some such? What do you mean by "good" technical information/discussion?

Consider also, that in the quest to make things more user friendly (and therefore not user serviceable) some things that we used to be able to do back in the day, can't readily be done today. This is part of the reason why there is less "technical" discussion. There's less you can do "technically" to or with modern devices.

 

You've made the mistake of assuming that correlation equals causation.

 

Lenovo Forums had a pretty interesting idea with "Knowledge base" articles covering different models. However, my impression is that no one ever reads those, so we're back to square one, answering the same questions we did 5-6 years ago, again and again and again and...

On the other side of the coin, I'm a member of several "technical" - not necessarily computer-related - forums which were once aimed at professionals and pretty active but now most of them are following the path of the dodo bird...

There are simply too many individuals who believe that all the correct answers can be found in wikipedia and that everything can be discussed on FB, and THAT is not going to change.

More often than not, I'm extremely glad that I'm a dinosaur whose retirement isn't all that far away...

My $0.02 only...

 

Sadly no. The only thing remotely close to a camera I own is my smartphone. I suspect any attempt at capturing an image of a hummingbird with my phone would be disastrous in respect to image quality! The hummingbird pic I use for my avy is courtesy of search engine.

Love the hummingbird pics on your website! Thanks for sharing :thumbsup:

 

Turquoisegirl08 you are WAY OFF topic.

Ajkula66 that must be what's happening here. This used to be a good forum.
Renee

 

Well, if you don't like how the forums are now (for whatever reason), the Log Out button's on the top-right of the page...

I've checked out TPF and those are some pretty nice forums. Could make an account there.

 

I'm interested in computers not the bs here that passes as technical information. This used ti be a nice forum.
Renee

 

Renee...YOUR the problem!!! You complain too much about everything!
Turquoisegirl08 was NOT off topic, she was simply answering my question about hummingbirds that was in her Avatar...

 

Neat. Then leave. If the creation of a dozen or so threads bothers you so much as to ruin the entire NBR experience for you, then I don't see why you keep coming here then.

I'm usually a polite poster most of the time, but there's a difference between bringing up a (possibly legitimate) problem and continually whining about it (which adds nothing of value to this thread, by the way).

 

She was just answering a question asked by another poster.

Odd that you would single her out for having done so as being "way off topic." It calls your judgment into question. Especially considering how innocuous the off topic banter between her and Jack53 was.

There's that subjective "good" again. Not that there's anything wrong with subjective assessments. But you've been asked a few times to specifically define what you consider "good." You seem to oddly ignore those questions in favor of merely levying criticism of what we all seem to acknowledge as a "change" in the forum relative to how it was a few years ago .

If you take the time to articulate some specifics, you may spark an idea that leads to a novel resolution or a fundamental change.

So I'll ask again, what do you consider to be "good technical information?"

If you feel that you can't properly articulate it, perhaps provide a few links to old threads that you feel pass your litmus test of what constitutes "good technical information." Doing that would give a better jumping off point for discussion.

Additionally, if you would, could you clarify what you mean by:

That assessment as stated doesn't particularly make much sense.
If owners threads are congregated by people who own the thread's titular model, wouldn't that instantly suggest that they are interested in computers? After all, a notebook is a computer.

Do you see why I'm asking you to be specific in your criticism?

Here's what I gather from what you've posted:

• You have difficulty finding pertinent information about specific models. (e.g. specific processor)
• The owners threads are large and full of posts that don't pass your litmus test for what constitutes "good technical discussion."
• You'd rather not ask the owners specific questions in those threads for fear of making them even longer.
• Owners threads appear to you as a meeting point for lay people who are not interested in computers.

With regard to those points, it begs the question... what seems to prevent you from creating a thread asking for specific information? Is there something in the forum rules that you are interpreting as prohibiting the creation of such a thread? Have you seen unfavorable and/or intimidating responses to other posters who have started such a thread which asks such questions?

Talk to us. You'd be surprised what can result from focused dialogue.

 

"There's that subjective "good" again. Not that there's anything wrong with subjective assessments. But you've been asked a few times to specifically define what you consider "good." You seem to oddly ignore those questions in favor of merely levying criticism of what we all seem to acknowledge as a "change" in the forum relative to how it was a few years ago . "

I'll define "good" as you ask. 1.) The density of technical material is quite low. 2.) The owners threads are unbelivevably large: The W520 thread is almost 510 Pages long.The myth is that they protect one from having to repeat themselves. How?
Does one say on page 510 that question was answered in the 350s? Or does one just answer them again. However the density of ABC saying, "Oh boy, I just received my 520 is incredibly high. I personally dont care if XYZ just received their 520 and when they ordered it.

Renee

 

"Renee...YOUR the problem!!! You complain too much about everything!
Turquoisegirl08 was NOT off topic, she was simply answering my question about hummingbirds that was in her Avatar..."

You were both off topic.

Renee

 

Refer to the well-indexed Owners' Thread examples that 2.0 posted a while ago. Yes, the W520 forum isn't as well-organized, but that's just a single example out of the... Few dozen(?) Owners' Threads here.

Anyway, I dont know why you're still going on about this. Why is it so hard to ignore the W520 thread, or create your own thread if you have a specific question (seriously, NBR doesn't charge money for that ), or in the case of "Oh woe is me! This website sucks!", go somewhere else? Nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to visit the W520 Owners' Thread, or even NBR for that matter.

You're pretty much whining like a little kid at this point. I really dont get why this is such a big deal.

And, just to add, while they might have been off-topic in this thread, so what? Grow up and start acting like how a mature, long-time member should be acting.

 

Please read carefully:

Here again, you're merely levying complaints rather than defining what "good technical discussion" looks like or constitutes. Look at it this way, by just saying that the owner's threads are "unbelievably large" one would have to conclude that what you think is "good" is for them to be the opposite: "small." Moreover, by saying that "the density of technical material is quite low" you're telling us very little since we still don't know what you consider "technical material."

What do you want to see, exactly? By answering that question, the forum could potentially be improved. We might be able to create a new standard or template for threads pertaining to specific models.

You also remarked:

If a poster gave either answer to your question, why would that not suffice? Or is it that given the size of the threads and the community atmosphere that you're afraid to even ask? I've answered the same questions tirelessly over and over again either specifically or pointing to a better reference. Many posters here do the same. Rude posters may respond with something along the lines of "Ommegerd, like, that's been answered 10 times already." But I've noticed that there's almost always someone who steps in to answer that question (by either previously mentioned means) and rebuke the rude poster either by word or deed. So there's really nothing material standing in the way of asking any question in an owners thread other than the fear of initial rejection or offending the group for having asked an oft asked question. Many regular participants in owners lounges are acutely aware that questions will be asked many times over and know that they will need to cater to them. They know that they themselves as owners are quite possibly the best resource of information about a model. So in a way, you could say that ownership pride compels them to want to answer questions.

Nevertheless, I can understand that the same social graces and anxieties which exist in real life can and do manifest on the web.

So...

Best bet: cite examples of what you consider "good technical discussion." You can post links or give a broad overview of the kind of information you'd like to be able to acquire.

We'll use that as the focal point going forward to try to come up with a solution where a new type of thread or threads are created where the predominate theme is technical discussion to supplement the community focused, social media evolved owners threads. I'm thinking a thread where forum members can deposit technical discoveries about specific models.

Maybe start a trend where they are called: "[Model XXX]: technical discoveries discussion lounge"

You might be thinking... "lounge?! Noooo...."

Yes, otherwise by not titling it with something seemingly inviting, noobs may be too intimidated to participate or even look and end up losing a learning opportunity and remain forever noobs. Remember, we all started as noobs and all of us will still be noobs at something.

 

Ah... I'm one of the many that has done that, more than once.
You don't belong here...
Why don't you go to another forum and bug them, we don't need you here!

 

I do sympathise with Renee as the W520 Thread is a classic case of how not to do an Owners Thread. While of course getting a new notebook is always very exciting sometimes you have to think how such information would be helpful and relevant in say 2-3 years’ time for prospective users. The lack of indexing and mass amount of information makes it a daunting affair for people to go through.

But Owners Thread can work if it’s done properly and requires a lot of time and commitment from the OP to continually index and add information over a period of time as 2.0 pointed out with some examples. I personally look after the ThinkPad T420 Thread myself and when it first started I looked at the W520 thread and thought to myself of the upcoming problems it may (well now) face and how I could avoid it. So since the beginning I decided to keep track of individual posts and links I found useful as I went along and "stickied" it on the first two posts.

It's over 3 years now since it started and now there is a list of information that old and newcomers can dive in and hopefully find what they're looking for about the T420 with minimal effort - Fit a Quad Core in a T420? Well yes you can find the info here and here. Guides to clean up the fan and add new paste while I'm at it? Sure it's here. These were stickied years ago and hopefully remains to be a help to the older and new generation of T420 owners in the community - by doing the legwork the scale of the thread no longer matters!

Though there should a be a template or standard of how an Owners Thread should be set up, right now its far too easy for anyone to make one but falls to the same trap that's affecting the W520 thread right now.

 

Yep, that's why I'm thinking that maybe starting a new thread type that can act as a clearinghouse of information with links pointing to things found/learned from various sources including owners threads. Perhaps reserving the first 5 posts to 5 different posters (maybe chosen from the owners threads) who can commit to managing an index of sorts. This way if, say, 4 slack off, at least one of the posters can keep it up to date in their own first opening post.

And if need be, someone can always ask a mod to update one of the first 5 posts.

This might be a reasonable solution to bridge the social aspects of owners lounges with the more strict technical desires of others.

 

Speaking of which, just throwing the idea out there, maybe a thread where users can link to content they find useful and think should be indexed in whatever relevant owner's thread. I mean, it is quite the task to maintain an owner's thread, I should know, I have done some maintaining the Asus gaming forum index at one point, especially when it came to the G73 series.

I will not make any promise that mods will update owner's threads that are forgotten by the one who started it because it can be quite the task, but like 2.0 said, ask us, you have nothing to loose. At worse, we won't have the time tot take care of it and at best, we will update it and make the thread better.

The owner's threads also provide a place for owners to discuss the notebook rather than having a single thread that covers pre-ordering, specs, prospective buyers, etc. which would just end up even more unwieldy.

 

Ok, I've gone back and re-read this thread. I can answer most of the questions. When I say "used to be" I am referring to about 2007 when I joined the forum.

A little bit of background information. I am a former VMS Development Engineer for from Digital Equipment Corporation, the people that inspired Gates to develop Windows. I want to be very subjective and say the that this forum used to interest me technically. It no longer does and I am asking myself, "Why?". I still write code. I find that the curve has shifted. Formerly, this forum was occupied by people who were interested in computer hardware and software and we fostered Newbies when the showed promise and I shall define that."Promise" was where a person could formulate a question that was technically answerable ans that other would be able to use.

A basic question is: How on earth do you expect someone to find answers in 510 forum pages? Now people are not here for interesting problems...people are looking for solutions and one will NEVER find them in 510 pages...so it is self-defeating to organize "information" as it organized here. That has to make sense or we are lost. I shall continue but first I want to post this much.

 

"With regard to those points, it begs the question... what seems to prevent you from creating a thread asking for specific information? Is there something in the forum rules that you are interpreting as prohibiting the creation of such a thread? Have you seen unfavorable and/or intimidating responses to other posters who have started such a thread which asks such questions? "

That's my point...I'm not looking for specific in formation....I'm here to learn... generally.


But I rarely ask questions. Usually I answer questions. Ask Zaz....he knows and remembers me.

" Or is it that given the size of the threads and the community atmosphere that you're afraid to even ask?"

Not in the least.

" ending the group for having asked an oft asked question. Many regular participants in owners lounges are acutely aware that questions will be asked many times over and know that they will need to cater to them. They know that they themselves as owners are quite possibly the best resource of information about a model. So in a way, you could say that ownership pride compels them to want to answer questions. "

You could say that or moronism. There are no absolutes.

"Best bet: cite examples of what you consider "good technical discussion." You can post links or give a broad overview of the kind of information you'd like to be able to acquire. "

I will have to look. In the t61p days there was a lot of discussion on how to install an interface in the t61p to the phone company for remote login. That was a good topic. I still have it in my T61p.

"e'll use that as the focal point going forward to try to come up with a solution where a new type of thread or threads are created where the predominate theme is technical discussion to supplement the community focused, social media evolved owners threads. I'm thinking a thread where forum members can deposit technical discoveries about specific models. "

That's a good start!

"Maybe start a trend where they are called: "[Model XXX]: technical discoveries discussion lounge"

You might be thinking... "lounge?! Noooo...."

That's exactly what I'm thinking. I do not come here to socialize. I have come to answer questions.

"Yes, otherwise by not titling it with something seemingly inviting, noobs may be too intimidated to participate or even look and end up losing a learning opportunity and remain forever noobs. Remember, we all started as noobs and all of us will still be noobs at something."

So? Either they will get over their intimidation or leave.

"Yep, that's why I'm thinking that maybe starting a new thread type that can act as a clearinghouse of information with links pointing to things found/learned from various sources including owners threads. Perhaps reserving the first 5 posts to 5 different posters (maybe chosen from the owners threads) who can commit to managing an index of sorts. This way if, say, 4 slack off, at least one of the posters can keep it up to date in their own first opening post. "

But personally, I hate owners threads. What's wrong with individual topics? Or is that too computer person like?

"This might be a reasonable solution to bridge the social aspects of owners lounges with the more strict technical desires of others"

My desire is to have individual topics to pick and chose from.

Renee

 

Strange? I've had no problem finding whatever I want using "search" anywhere on this forum no matter how large the threads..
So that makes these complaints about too many posts moot.
Now I'm done with this useless thread... now down to the subscription box so I can "do not subscribe......"

 

Just what everyone needs, someone else to chime in

I've been on and off these forums for years, have always used Thinkpads and have always come here for Thinkpad related information.

I love the owners threads, it's a great way for people with the laptop to get together to ask questions and share notes. The idea that people come here looking for specific solutions to problems is a bit off base. It's not like people here are graced with knowing all things Thinkpad. The way I see it, there is no definitive question and answer process going on, there's questions, some conjecture, some additional input, maybe some clarification and so on. Very rarely do you get a question followed by a succinct and definitive answer. That's really the beauty of it is to follow the conversation along and see how the solution develops from different perspectives.

It's as if you want a spec sheet to tell you information in black and white, and that's not what forums are. Sure, you may have found the discussions more interesting in the past, it's normal to miss days gone by, some people can make a living out of it. But things change and it's best to evolve with it...