Why not to buy Lenovo - My Story

This is a long story, but you should read it if you are considering buying a Lenovo computer.

A year and a half ago, i bought a new T60. I loved the thing to death, and it had only minor flaws (a lot of god awful thinkvantage software, some of it uninstallable).

Three weeks ago, I spilled coffee on my T60 in the middle of finals week (I am a law student). It was hit pretty hard. I sent it to IBM to have it looked at, and they quoted me $750 to have it fixed. So I decided it was basically totalled and ordered a new T61. This is where everything went to hell.

I selected Windows XP as the operating system (I hate Vista, and XP home was $50 cheaper). However, after I clicked the final button, and got the sale confirmation, it listed my computer as having Vista. They switched it on me, without asking, after charging my credit card.

I e-mailed Lenovo, and they told me they couldn't help me because of a "bug in [their] system", and to call the sales line instead.

I called them up, but the guy on the phone wouldn't help - he mearly repeated over and over "we are no longer shipping XP." That's great, but it doesn't change the fact that I ordered a computer with XP and you are giving me something different. If Lenovo decided to "stop shipping laptops" and start selling toasters, could they just send me a toaster instead of a laptop without giving me any choice?

I asked to speak to a manager, he said that I couldn't. He literally refused to let me speak to a manager.

So I e-mailed Lenovo and asked them to help me. They didn't get back to me until after my laptop had shipped, and told me I could return it if i was unhappy.

Concurrently while this was all going on, I was dealing with my old broken laptop. Someone from their service department called me, and i called back three times, but each time she was "unavailable," and the people who were there were completely unfamiliar with my case and couldn't help me.

Then a day after the last time i tried to reach her, she left me a message saying she was going to ship it back unfixed that day (i didn't get the message that day until after they'd already shipped it). Here's why this is a problem - I am on winter break, 3000 miles away from the place they just shipped it - I won't be back there for 2 weeks - and until then, anyone can just come along and steal my broken laptop, which has my hard drive, and loads of personal information, communication, passwords, and financial info, let alone family pictures, etc.

Then my new T61 comes, and I am delighted to learn that not only did they give me vista, but they gave me the useless third-world country Vista version - Vista Basic.

Also, the computer is asymmetrical in about 30 different ways - the screen is shifted right, the trackpad shifted left, and the to (screen side) is bigger than the bottom (keyboard side) so that the entire top juts out over the bottom and both sides in a way that is really annoying. The battery sticks out the back an extra inch (not shown in any pictures), and the button to open the screen is shoved too far to the right in this model, making it hard to get leverage on it.

These changes might be fine if they were disclosed on the website - instead, Lenovo only shows a 1 inch picture on its website, hiding the ugly and unwieldy design changes they made.

Oh and here's another awesome thing - Lenovo doesn't ship computers with an operating system CD. Who knows what you have to do if you need to reinstall your OS, but at the very best, it would require a phone call and waiting for Lenovo to mail you a disc.

I'm leaving out about 10 other super annoying things so that this doesn't get any longer than it already is. But the moral of the story is that ThinkPads are going down the toilet. Lenovo took what IBM gave it, and is turning it into crap. If anyone remembers when Dell used to be really good, like 8 years ago, and how it turned bad so quickly, this is what is now happening to Lenovo ThinkPads. They have lost their way. Think twice before buying.

 

Wow. Dell's service is better than that (in my case).

 

Yes you have a choice - CANCEL the order and not wait till the toaster arrives at your desktop.

 

Oh man, that's terrible.... it's time to order Dell..

 

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

Looks like you should've done your homework and researched a T61 before making a purchase. All the cosmetic "flaws" you have mentioned are mentioned pretty much in every review. Battery protrusion and the shifted touchpad is part of many modern laptops.

As for the customer service, how many times did you call back and ask for the supervisor?

 

But surely you knew this from buying your T60 a year and a half ago. You're supposed to burn your own copies.

And this was the policy at least as far back as 2004, when I bought my T41 from IBM.

 

Yes, I suppose much of the complaints I have about the T61 are already out there - I just didn't feel like I had to do any research, because I loved my T60 so much - I assumed they wouldn't mess with the formula too much. As far as the OS goes, I didn't notice the lack of CD when I ordered my original computer - but I don't think that makes it ok - I mean we are paying for the OS license.

However, those problems were merely the rust on the blade of the terrible customer service I received. In my opinion, a company shouldn't be able to ship you something totally different than what you order, without asking, nor should they be so unhelpful when confronted with their mistake. And in my opinion there is no excuse for them shipping my old laptop to a location where I won't be for two weeks.

I don't want to sound like a complainer - there are lots of things I love about these laptops. It's just my opinion that you pay a premium for ThinkPads (you should see what you can buy at Best Buy for 500 bucks), and in my opinion they treated me pretty badly considering the fact that I've bought two laptops from them in under two years.

 

Yeah, agreed. I especially find their decision to ship Vista Basic just bizarre.

 

Yikes - this is horrible. What has Lenovo done to the Thinkpad line?

 

If they ordered XP and noticed they were going to ship you Vista why didn't you cancel your order right then and there? It makes no sense to me.

 

I didn't cancel it because I thought I could get them to fix the order for me. When they originally e-mailed me back they said the only reason they couldn't fix it was that they had a bug in their system and told me to call instead - so I called and the guy was unhelpful, and I e-mailed them back. Then they shipped my laptop, two weeks earlier than they estimated (generally i would be jumping for joy, but in this case it prevented me from fixing the problem before they shipped it). They didn't get back to me until after the laptop was shipped. Maybe there was a better way of dealing with this problem, but I thought I was going about it the right way - calling and e-mailing customer support and trying to work through the system.

 

Actually, I don't really see how they are really faulted at all....and Im looking hard.

First, you spilled liquid on your system and they gave you a quote. I bet the 3rd year warranty would have been nice in that case.

Next, you bought a new system with XP right when there was obviously a transition period so they sent you Vista Basic. Yes, its there mistake but this is common with alot of manufacturers all the time. What they did was upgrade you believe it or not.

As for getting Basic, you could have easily changed this yourself if you would have ordered Vista in the first place.

Now as for the design, who can you really blame but yourself? I can tell you that I don't know of ANYONE else who would order a laptop simply off of, how big was that picture again??? There are lots of reviews and tons of pictures available that most would have checked out before the purchase.

Did I miss anything??? Oh shipping. Is it their fault you are so far away? Can you imagine the repercussions of them sending it anywhere except your registered address? "Yes sir, please just send it to my temporary address in "insert foreig country here""

Sorry, but someone needed to put a realistic spin on this. As much as I am not a devote Lenovo lover (oh oh here comes Andrew), a fine painter never blames his brushes.

Happy new year...aside from this.

PS... I know this sounds a bit harsh but truly, I do empathize with your situation. Maybe approach us here first and foremost next time; we may be able to offer some valuable advise or...yes a Lenovo review perhaps.

 

I think the Thinkpads themselves are still solid - aside from the cosmetic things I complained about - I'll be honest, I can't stand a lot of other company's laptops - Lenovos just feel much more solid and no nonsense.

 

Loving one model so much and assuming that the next model isn't really an excuse to not research a computer. You are about to purchase an expensive machine but don't have the common sense to know what you're buying? As for the OS restore CD's, it is integrated into the laptop in a hidden partition. This way, you can burn as many recovery discs as you like in case you lose one.

You are completely right about this. There was no excuse for any customer service to treat their customers like this. It's their job to provide service, not workarounds. And again, sorry to hear about this.

Again, you are paying a premium price here, so shouldn't you take the time to look into an item you're willing to spend so much money on?

 

It's definately my fault I spilled coffee on my laptop. No argument there.

But I don't really follow how Lenovo isn't at fault for shipping me a different OS because it was a transition period, or that I could have avoided getting shipped Vista Basic by choosing Vista in the first place. Nor do I agree that it's an upgrade - I do a lot of music recording with software and hardware that is not compatible with Windows Vista - unless and until all those other manufacturers make their stuff compatible, I need a computer with Windows XP.

As for the address issue, they should've never shipped my old computer back in the first place considering that I had been trying to reach the person in charge of my case for days, and she was never available.

All of these things may seem minor individually, but in the aggregate, it to me shows a company that doesn't care about its customers. Feel free to disagree, I just wanted to put my thoughts/experiences out there.

PS Happy new years to you too. This seems like a cool forum - wish i'd known about it before.

 

Lenovo Customer Service sucks shid. I went though something not as tragic but due to an error in their website, they overcharged me IMO. The amount is trivial but more trivial to them than to me. I called, got confusion. Got some people that said they would call back but did not and are unreachable. Then I got someone who said I would get some money back. Said it on my voice mail and to call. When I called they said no we didnt. I MP3ed the VM and emailed it to the support person numerous times and no response. Called and wont take my call. As a matter of priciple am about to put it on a blog and let the world listen to it. They tell me I will get some money back and its all set up and approved by a sup. They are so urorganized its pathetic.

 

The problem is...they need to send you a computer and it has to have an OS in it. yes, they probably could have tried to contact you but this is a normal business practice. that is why you can return it if you don't want it. You won't get XP from them but you may have a great case to get a free upgrade to Vista premium or Ultimate.

As for the shipping concern, they have your laptop which they are not going to make any money from so they want it out of their hands soonest...

 

This was sort of my rationale in posting about this - I think that people should post about poor service, because otherwise it is a hidden factor - you won't ever find out about whether or not a company has good service until something goes wrong and you need it, and by then it is often too late.

 

coolidge, i feel your pain on the whole vista issue. i think the rest are just due to unfortunate events and timing.

but yeah, in my experience (i've returned 3 thinkpads over the past year) would recommend calling several more times as if you are calling for the first time, and patiently explaining your situation. the service you get comes single-handedly down to the rep that you get.

when you get a good rep, remember their information, and try to develop a good relationship with them. in my case, i spec'd out my computer online, then phoned in the order. then, i contacted the same rep and he helped me switch it out. i also asked him for his representative id, and made sure he got rep'd when several of my friends made purchases.

there were some mistakes along the way, but i would just call him, and he'd get back to me because he knew i was looking out for him, and that i wasn't going to give him a headache each time he called.

 

thanks - this seems like the best strategy. And I can totally see how you'd have to return 3 in the past year - They act like they would rather have you return your laptop than help you with it, which seems absurd from a business perspective. Next laptop i get i might have to defect to the dark side (apple)

 

Oh cool, to add insult to injury, my comp has the sound stuttering problem described here

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=141867&highlight=t61+sound

 

I recently used a ultra portable HP Compaq nc2400 business notebook that my friend has. It puts my X61 to shame, it even had a DVD burner, and widescreen 12" that was 1280X800. Only downside was that it's only a Core Duo.

However, the build quality is soooo solid, not a single creak, it's built like a tank (as the NBR review even states). The keyboard puts that on my X61 to shame... they are very beefy keys. I'm thinking of returning my X61 and getting a nc2400. Plus, get this... I had to have Lenovo come out an repair my X61 already because the power socket was horribly loose and the lid didn't lock down all the time when you closed it... it would pop back up.. The guy who fixed it didn't even reconnect the fingerprint reader when he left, and the lid still pops up and doesn't lock down into place. Sad.

I feel your pain OP!

 

All I have to say is to do your homework first. I spent months and countless hours on this forum and other forums I joined reseaching different models, before I made my new laptop purchase. IBM/Lenovo always came out on top of all 3 forums I joined.

As one user here mentioned there is tonns of pics and info on the design of the Thinkpads. So in all honestly that's your own fault.
Spilling water on ya computer is once again your own fault. It just like me ringing up Sony and saying "I was drunk and I fell on my plasma, can you fix it?" Of course they are reluctant to hear from you.

It's not about Lenovo/IBM going down the drain here, its about using your brains and common sense.

 

dude, no offense but this is a ridiculous post. i never blamed them for me breaking my old laptop, nor did I ask them to fix it for free. I ordered a new one. Read the OP. HTH.

 

That was supposed to be a humerous add in. Sorry if you got offended. My main point was to say, research, look around, and ask questions before buying a computer, or anything for that matter. It avoid's dissapointment.

Happy New Year.

 

may be just think that Lenovo upgraded you to vista home basic for free.... people are gonna upgrade to vista sooner or later just like xp from 2000, so why not now....

 

I was kinda thinking the same. Maybe they figured well Vista is the new OS and he has ordered something older, the customer surely would be happy with something newer.

Coolidge: But I do have to agree with you there. You order something- you expect to get what you payed and ordered for.

One other tip too- I NEVER order anything that is customizable online. I phone order or (like I did with this) find a retailer. I find by talking to an actual person you get what you want and it saves stuff ups!

Hope you have your computer issue resloved.

 

I don't agree about the 'free upgrade to Vista' part of the argument. If it were disclosed on the Lenovo website that they will ship the OS of their choice, then fine - but it wasn't. Some people hate Vista (I don't).

Coolidge, Are they going to charge you a restocking fee if you send it back? If not, then you should just return it - obviously you are not happy with the unit you were shipped.

If they try to hit you with a restocking fee, then if you put this on your charge card, write a letter to your charge card company - tell them that the vendor did not ship the product you ordered, and refuses to correct the mistake. Ask them to charge back the item. Most card companies will do this no questions asked. I assure you it will get Lenovo's attention...

 

Thats a real good idea....

 

I completely agree with coolidge. They should have never shipped the laptop without XP (they could have at least called you and asked!).

Also, to all those interested in buying a laptop, I highly recommend getting a good sales rep to do business with. I found Mark F. to be extremely helpful and resolve any issues I've ever had. I return the favor and have directed others to buy from him (they receive bonuses for different sales goals) which I'm sure he appreciates.

All considered, I consider the thinkpad's to be superior machines, but through various experiences I think their customer service and organization to be lacking. My theory is that we are not a large part of their annual income, but they cater more to the big purchases corporate IT departments make, universities, and larger businesses, so I sometimes wonder if the everyday consumer is just at the bottom of the totem poll so to speak

 

Retail is usually a small part of the big manufacturers business...

Not only manufacturing, notice how if you have internet for business from same ISP you use for home, and how much better business support always is.

Most of IBM business comes from equipment leasing for businesses and services, no wonder they drop the retail line, its a big hassle to deal with consumers like us

 

As far as I know, Lenovo is not offering XP Home as an option on any of its new Santa Rosa based laptops, which would include the T, R and X series.

Very few manufacturers are sending out OS discs with their machines anymore. Most provide you with the means to burn them off.

 

Assuming you meant Core Solo.

Here's the lead paragraph from the PC Magazine review of the nc4200 by Cisco Cheng:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1952978,00.asp

A first for HP, the Compaq nc2400 ($1,599 direct) ultraportable is a long-missing link in HP's lineup. This tiny laptop weighs just 3.6 pounds yet features an extended battery and a built-in optical drive. For frequent travelers, these are huge selling points, especially on such a light notebook. But its lackluster performance and some subpar components leave it a step behind our ultraportable Editors' Choice winner, the Lenovo ThinkPad X60s.

 

FYI .... i would never buy a Dell again without serious consideration. Bought 10 desktops for my office and 2 laptops. They came with dated software that I was stuck with and my "personal" sales rep won't talk to me after the order was final. Laptops are constant headaches. Desktop CDR drives have problems - several failed after the warranty period. We did not figure it out until it was too late because we do not use them that often in our work. Tech support is a little better when you get through but you have to deal with Indian techs initially and they go by a script (no thought process invovled).

 

they do offer XP professional for about $70 more... cold-blooded people who just want to suck all your money.

 

I could agree with the customer service.

It appears that alot of people always mention the perks of the Lenovos. But then...they usually talk about the crappy customer service that Lenovo has. I can vouch for that.

I mean for the XP => Vista upgrade, they should of just asked if you wanted to be upgraded. I remember when I was soo happy when my Lenovo came. And then totally pissed cause I ordered a x61 with the antenna thingy on the side of the laptop. I called to tell them and then it took them a while to understand the situation. And then after the lady understands what im telling her, she asks for the order number. Fine. I tell her and then she tells me that I did not ask for the piece. When really, the standard screen comes with the Ultra connect II 2x3 antenna. I was like..uhh yeah i did .. placed the order on the website and had the circled filled for the antenna". And then the rep is like"I believe we are sold out of that piece, sir". I freaking flipped inside my head. How can a company run out of parts? Thats her response to the situation? And moreover, how can they send me a laptop with what I had asked for is missing? My only choice was to resend the laptop after waiting close to a month to arrive (3 weeks wait ...ordered in October '07) and wait again.

Is it me or does it seem like the respect for the consumer is worth nothing now a days?


LOL im getting pissed writing about this now. I think im gonna pay the stocking fee and just get a mac or wait for the new intel chips to come out.

 

I guess I'll say it. I ordered a T61 back in December, and ended up with a Macbook. No, Lenovo didn't screw up that badly, but they did lose a customer. When I placed the order, the estimated delivery date jumped from the "1-2 weeks" given to the end of December, 2 or 3 days before the New Year. I couldn't wait that long. I specifically ordered it because the estimate left several days for it to arrive in time for me to take it home over the holidays. When the estimate jumped magically after they received my credit information, I started searching for the customer service number. I canceled the order the next morning, and ordered a Macbook.

I later learned from reading this site that Lenovo had been lying on their estimates--pushing them forward in order to make themselves look good by delivering them before the revised estimates. That deception cost them a customer. I don't have time for such stupid games. I can understand a company not wanting to disappoint customers with late delivery dates (yes, I followed the disaster this past summer with the T60s), but lying in the other direction doesn't make things any better; it just made them look like thieves. So yeah, I'd say Lenovo's customer service is going down the tubes.

As for my Mac? It's okay. I'm thinking about getting a T61 due to a few programs I miss (Media Player Classic, µTorrent), but I don't feel like dealing with Lenovo's incompetence again. Their outlet store seems to be even worse than the regular online ordering service, and I don't really need a T61; it'd just be nice to have one. Well, that's my Lenovo story. I still love the look of their computers, and the functionality, but I need my gear to come when it's supposed to come, and work out of the box without all the crap people seem to have to deal with on this forum. I'm still deciding whether or not to place an order. We'll see.

 

No, they were originally Core Solo and then went to Core Duo, check the NBR review. A newer model has been released, but it's changed a lot. The nc2400 is unique.

 

I never order online- find a retailer. They will normally take care of all the service warranties should you ever need it.

Three years ago I ordered an IBM through a retailer and a few times it had to go in for small repairs. They took care of everything. I took it to the shop 10 minutes away and 3 weeks later is came back fixed and repaired.
They dealt with IBM and not I.

I purchased this laptop (in sig) the same away. And I find becuase you purchased through them they discount alot of their accessories for you.

 

Are you talking about the WWAN antenna? Did you order a WWAN model? The other antennas listed are for WLAN (802.11).

 

When you need something quickly, I would recommend figuring out what you wanted customized in your Thinkpad, and then finding a TopSeller model that is closest to it. These are pre-configured machines that ship within a couple of days. You can look through the HMM to look at the detailed specs for the various TopSeller Models.

 

Where can I find these TopSeller models? At the lenovo.com site?

 

I've a positive experience with my recent T61p purchase.

I ordered on 12/12/07 configured with an upgraded RAM, HD, DVD burner and it came exactly as I configured it and it even arrived a day earlier than the UPS tracking number on Dec 20.

My old notebook was a Dell 600m and I've always wanted a Thinkpad. The black casing was perfect after many years with the silvery blue of the Dell which by the way was known for its flimsy LCD screen and generally poor keyboard and overall construction.

I was tempted by a MBP but it would have cost almost twice as much for the configuration I like. The T61p with C2D 7500/2GB/100GB/DVDR/Nvidia 256MB/WSXGA+ cost me $1300+.

Even the newer Dell (XPS M1330) would have cost more and only WXGA screen only.

Sure, I wish the T61p has LED backlighting, but at least I can get it with a matte screen (to be fair, this is the only option) rather than the glossy screen that HP and Dell seem to be pushing down customers' throat.

Keyboard is the best which everyone knows, but the CTRL key and FN key should have been swapped.

The ESC key could be on the same row as the F1-F12 keys since I use VI/VIM editor and I keep hitting the F1 key. But I'm slowly getting used to it.

The screen offset doesn't bother me. Perhaps because I'm always using the computer in a dimly lit room and with the black frame, I don't notice it as much. But even in a brightly lit room, I don't think it'll bother me. It is purely cosmetic. As an analogy to cars, I still prefer my instrument cluster be right in front of me, rather than the Scion or Saturn approach of putting it in the middle of the IP and making everything to appear symmetric.

The only thing I didn't like is the screen release mechanism. Since it is offset to the right, it is a pain for me to release the latch and than have to use two hands to open the lid. But even if it is centered, I think I still have to use 2 hands, coz' the LCD hinges are strong.

Fortunately, this T61p is my main home computer. So, it rarely leaves the desk and the screen is already opened anyway.

I did however prefer them to include a Vista disk. But purely from a selfish standpoint. I wish to install it on the Dell 600m

On a side note, for someone who uses Unix/Linux at work and pretty much since college, I didn't think Vista is that bad. I did turn off the transparently and none of the *fancy* Aero. But it isn't as bad as everyone puts it out to be and I actually prefers it to XP. I still prefer the stability of Unix/Linux boxes running the variants of X11 out there. Dell 600m is dual boot XP and Ubuntu.

 

hamproof, you should deifnitely post that in the ThinkPad Appreciation Thread in my signature.