Will the ThinkPad line ever be sold by Lenovo?

Lenovo being banned from sensitive branches of Western government is a problem for Lenovo, but far, far, far from being even close to the main problem. Being banned for "security concerns" is much less of a marketing nightmare IMO in the free West than a perception of the brand being lacking in quality.

As others (who know far more about Lenovo or notebooks in general than myself) in this thread and elsewhere pointed out, quality is the end-all and be-all.

How many cameras does Canon sell to the "guvment"?

It's at the level of prosumers that Lenovo is failing (to deliver at least at a level commensurate with expectation). I look around my colleagues (and myself), who invariably pays for our own hardware with our own dime (notwithstanding a portion of government subsidies to physicians who commit to "meaningful" use of EMR), the ratio of MBP/MBA to Windows notebook is 10:1 (probably more like 30:1 with Thinkpads specifically).

Granted, being leashed to the overlord in Redmond is rather like swimming in high seas with a millstone tied around your waist. This by and large holds back all three major PC OEMs (Dell/HP/Lenovo). But why is that the best Windows laptop widely said to be a boot-camped MBP (at least in pre-retina days) or the best Windows tablet a modbook (SP2 notwithstanding)?

Substandard manual, bundling AV and other trial-ware in Txxxp models without giving professionals even a choice - does Apple do that?

 

The "wide" ranks of these people are not particularly wide, and they are not particularly well-informed either. Marketing and bias is everything.

Watching people using Macs to run Windows applications (bootcamps or VMs), and gloriously working around issues that wouldn't have existed if they went for more appropriate hardware, have always been amusing. In my experience, people who work with OS X/web software on *nix servers/iOS end up with Macs more often than not. However, people who mostly work with Windows end up with non-Apple laptops eventually (some try Apple for a few months/a year, before coming back). Usually this occurs after a discovery that contents of an average Bestbuy isn't quite representative, and in addition to consumer-oriented Windows laptops, there are Elitebooks, Thinkpads, Dell mobile workstations etc.

 

A lot of reviews I've seen about various models of MBPs come from people who think that a $300 Windows based laptop is the same as a $4000 one and that all Mac laptops are superior to all Windows based ones. How can you expect good reasoning from people who are so misinformed?

Lots of people tend to generalize too much. Just because two different computers run the same OS , that doesn't mean the experience , performance , etc. would be the same.

Some guy posted an article at forbes.com and he really isn't qualified to be doing that although he has a doctorate. His doctorate was in education but we all know that people who do education degrees as their highest degree run away from the technical stuff.

 

If the Chinese government wanted to spy on american devices, they would have done it already, since much more than just Lenovo laptops are built in China, putting in a backdoor would be easy. Look at Apple, Dell, etc.

And please, did you know every iPhone and every Android phone has a backdoor that allows Apple/Google to remotely delete files off your device without your consent?

 

Point taken even though you made up a straw man, too. Most semi-informed folks - i.e., the ones who configured a Txxxp / Wxxx and looked at a MBP with comparable specs are not comparing $300 acers with anything. They are perhaps comparing $2800 setups with $2900 rigs.

I did that myself and only came to the Thinkpad side for two reasons:

1. I want to shoehorn it into a tablet
2. I need to run Dragon Medical for voice recognition.

But I could not convince myself (let alone any colleague) that my T440p is superior in construction/layout in any way to a MBP13. Of course the new retina MBPs make boot-camping undesirable for people with legacy software requirement unless they are willing to go blurry. Even then I heard there are headaches.

The point is that Apples to Apple wanna-bes (i.e., Lenovo), at comparable price points, the latter's construction/hardware choices/delivery/user experience are wanting. This is a subjective statement. But most people have endorsed it with their wallet, and are too busy to come to a forum like this to inform you loyal Thinkpadders. I went the other way but still would like to convey the message. It pays (literally) for the message to sink in for Lenovo.

I didn't read the article as I couldn't be bothered. But just because he ain't "techie" doesn't mean he isn't using his laptop to make a living and hence has as valid an opinion on this work tool of his as any other.

Plus more importantly, he represents the kind of people from whom Lenovo and the likes must get their money. The techiest of the geeks (or the geekiest of the techies) always have different needs and they may even eschew Windows entirely. But if a large systems integrator relies only on them to make a living, bye bye Lenovo.

I say again, it is at the level of prosumers Lenovo will be made or broken.

 

I normally buy the cheapest configuration possible that has the main things I want (e.g. 1080P screen) and then buy aftermarket parts. I believe in saving a few hundreds dollars by using some basic skills and learning how to shop. The aftermarket parts I buy also tend to be better quality than what the laptop manufactures use.

Most people don't even know about the TXXX and the WXXX in the first place and most people who buy a Mac don't even know what a Quadro GPU is either. How do you expect them to know about that stuff? They can't go to Best Buy and ask for a computer made for graphics professionals because the person at Best Buy will just direct them to a Mac instead.

 

He says that the brand of a computer doesn't matter. How could you trust someone who says that? That's like saying the brand of a car doesn't matter as well.


He leaves out so many details that it would be fair to say that he just comparing Windows 8 vs Mac OS X but the problem is that hardware and software work together. You can't ignore that a cheap Windows based laptop will be using an HDD while a Mac will be using an SSD. That small piece of hardware alone can be the difference between something taking minutes to load on a computer vs seconds.

Apple has shown that many people will pay extra for their computers to be optimized from the start and there is nothing wrong with that but it just leads to unfair comparisons. Apple believes in limiting the choices that users make but that has benefits as well.

 

Okay if he indeed doesn't know what he is talking about then I can't defend him. Nor will I even try.

Then again as you yourself alluded to, for every genuine "techie", there are perhaps 100 "tech commentators". 97 of them are just shooting from the hip.

My point isn't for Lenovo to ape Apple. In fact if Lenovo turns their T/W series into big shiny blocks of aluminium, the company is instantly done with. Look at HP.

There is no money for wannabes and also-rans.

Lenovo needs to stake out the ground and play it for keeps just to survive. Otherwise indeed it should just sell the Thinkpad brand to someone who can play the game at the prosumer level. Realistically, aside from Lenovo, I am not sure who can at the moment.

Having said that, Dell has gone private, which means it's a dark horse potentially full of surprises.

 

But THEY are the one whose CEO said that they wanted to take Apple head-on...which is an utter nonsense IMO, but what do I know...

Lenovo doesn't need to do anything of a kind to survive. They have a virtual monopoly on the Chinese market - being a "home team" and a lot more than that - and the largest portion of their revenue comes from phones and tablets sold there.

So, they'll just keep on re-designing the ThinkPads until no one can tell one apart from all the other laptops on the shelf.

 

^^^ I have nothing specific to reply or comment on wrt your post.

But I just clicked the link in your sig to "FankenPads".

What a pity Lenovo isn't building one!

I'll take anything 4:3 or 16:10.

Please do ape/imitate/copy/ that aspect ratio off the fruit company, Lenovo!

 

Some other companies still make laptops that use a 16:10 aspect ratio.

Getac | V200 - Fully Rugged Convertible

 

It's good to see that some are still holding out (even Toughbook sold out).

But I must hasten to add that in addition to the aspect ratio, I must have a minimum of 1280x1024 (not 800p), and much, much preferably 1050p (either x 1400 or 1680 will do).

Basically, all I am asking for is to have the old Thinkpad T60/61p and Fujitsu/Toshiba tablet screen ratio and size back.

They can sell the QHD s#x somewhere else.

 

How do you figure that?

CF-52 is 16:10

Panasonic Official Panasonic Toughbook 52 Rugged Laptop

CF-31 is 4:3

Panasonic Toughbook 31 Rugged Computer - Panasonic Toughbook 31 Laptop

As is CF-19

Panasonic Toughbook 19 Rugged Tablet PC - Panasonic Toughbook 19 Convertible Laptop

So while Panasonic does offer a 16:9 aspect on some of its machines, they still hold on to *both* 4:3 and 16:10 as well.

 

Quite right you are then. I was previously mainly looking for a tablet/convertible and the C2 was briefly on the list. But at 768p it would be worse than the C1 from previous gen (800p) in portrait mode.

I wasn't even going to consider the CF-19 with its XGA goodness.

I must have assumed that Panny's laptop lines went 16:9 just as C2 did. But thanks for straightening it out.

The CF-52 sure looks interesting. But at 7.5 lb, I would've thought they'd put in a quad-core i7.

 

Interesting it is.

I should know since I own one of them...:hi2:

Panasonic never shoves too much CPU power in their machines, which makes sense considering their primary target markets.

I mean, what difference does a QC make when you're beating someone to a pulp to coerce a confession.......

 

^^^ Or eating bullets like a flak jacket?

 

All I can say is that the hot air exhausted from an Intel QC (even at 22nm) has its own "coercive" quality on my thin skin ... Perhaps, just perhaps, now that water-boarding is supposed to be out of fashion (so we plebs are told).

 

I've actually had an Apple fanboy argue with me that the 750M in his Retina was better for video editing that a quadro.... In this case my OC'd 755M gives me the most powerful laptop in the world /sarcasm

16:10 is overrated.

Getacs are not meant to compete with Thinkpads, i'm all for rugged laptops in the field, but in the office it's a waste of money.

 

I think your friend might be a little weak in the mind

 

Depends on the software and filters used. For many video editors no GPU at all is better than discrete GPU : more thermal headroom for CPU

 

I'll give you some more quotes:

"If you are gonna spend over 1000$ on a PC, might as well get a Mac" + "Macbook Pros are the best for video editing" + "Macs are the best computers for running Windows (Bootcamp)"

#5555th post

 

Who really cares about 16:10 debate anymore? This is by no means linked to Lenovo/Think, it is industry wide. If you want 16:10, go buy an old computer, with 3/4k becoming more prevalent, who cares if it isn't 16:10, you are still getting 1800 vertical pixels now.

 

Wasn't there a time 800x600 VGA was "industry wide"?

And who cares if Lenovo insists on being an also-ran and bit player?

I care about effective resolution. 16:10 by itself is meaningless (e.g. "1280x800"). As it had been said over and over and over, there is an optimal size where mobility meets productivity - hence our rehashing this here on "notebookforum" (and its sister tabletpcforum ad nauseum).

Many would tacitly acknowledge that the "sweet spot" occurs at around 13-15" diagonal. You can pixel-double, triple, and quintuple up the yin-yang and it won't change the fact that a minimum of 1024-1050 effective pixels are needed in the short axis. That is the real drive behind 16:10.

1800 vertical sexy pixies in what? A 14 incher so it can be fuzzied back to 900p? A 14" needs 4k no more than a starving anorexic needs weight watcher.

Until someone shows me a 4k/8k/16k looking as sharp interpolated to SXGA+/WSXGA+/UXGA as panels with these native resolutions, this Xk display remains not just a joke, but a scam.

 

That is easy. Quite a few manufactures, including Lenovo, are nowadays willing to sell you 1080p screens. More, you can even choose the size, at every stop from 11" to 15", especially if you're ready to accept glossy screen. And you can choose a form factor even, and whether it will be touchable or not.

If your sweet spot was 14" 16:10 1680x1050, this is about 140ppi. Nowadays, you'd need to grab 15.6" 16:9 1920x1080 screen to get this 140 ppi and vertical pixels. Bonus +300 horizontal pixels. Weight of the modern 16:9 15" laptop is likely to be comparable to 14" 16:10 laptop from the older days. +1" of laptop width isn't much really.

If you wanted real 1920x1200, at the same 140-ish ppi, it would be a sad story. Thing of the past. As is a decent laptop keyboard layout, or real TrackPoint.

 

Spot on you are. 140ppi is exactly where my money's at. In fact this ceiling of ppi is non-negotiable for myself and many others given the restriction of our line of work. Not just me, it is mandatory for a relative of mine who runs a medical illustration/animation firm, too. Many of his workhorse graphics design software still sport menu items that are not "DPI-aware".

Now if Lenovo made a DisplayLink-powered LT1523p or Wacom made a Cintiq DTU-1531 or if anyone had made a 15.x"/1080p tablet with oomph (and light enough), then I surely will have no grounds to complain just as you say.

But I don't see any tablet (perhaps not until Skylake but even then I am doubtful) ever cracking the 15.4" diagonal even with 16:9, which would be the minimum that could make 1080p usable - for me. Perhaps running Atom will give such device a chance to keep weight at less than 3 lb, although I highly doubt it. Assuming same thickness, the glass panel in a 15.4"er would weigh 1.5 times that of a 12.5"er. And I wouldn't be surprised if the 15.4" glass panel has to be a tad thicker than the 12.5" for structural reasons.

For above reasons, 14" is indeed the "sweet spot amongst the sweet spots." Here I see no option but WSXGA+ or UXGA to get me an effective pixel density close to 140ppi, and at the same time a usable number of effective pixels on the short axis (1050p+).

Anyway, Lenovo doesn't have to listen.

But I don't have to stop complaining and tarring their black name.

I'll extend the courtesy to Dell and HP when I get around.

 

I see a lot of hate towards high dpi screens. I'm dealing with non-dpi-aware applications myself fairly regularly, but so far none of them would become unusable on high-dpi screens with proper settings. Considering that with (more and more) applications that are dpi-aware fonts look sharp and absolutely gorgeous... I'm sold to high dpi, my 3K display is on it's way.

Disclosure - I'm a software developer (hence importance of fonts) and a gamer (higher resolution ~= better graphics), and I run Linux rather than Windows on my machines (less problems with non-dpi-aware applications).

 

The weekly "Lenovo is going out of business" thread, but in a different guise...

It's hard to even bother reading something that's based on such a clear logical fallacy:

"in places like America, where ThinkPads are popular, they've become increasingly unpopular and untrusted. a whole slew of issues have haunted ThinkPads ever since Lenovo took over."

If you looked up "begging the question", you couldn't find a better example.

 

So basically you're unhappy not about Thinkpads, or aspect ratios, or keyboards, or something that ever existed. But rather that nobody makes powerful and light 15"/1080p tablets yet, and hasn't ever made them?

Btw. Sony makes Vaio Fit 15" Flip laptop convertible with 140ppi screen & pen input. 5 pounds, while heavy, is less than T440p + LT1523p. Costs less too.

 

VGA was industry wide, but the OEM's had no control over exactly what aspect ratio. OEM's buy panels from AUO, Chi-Mei, LG, Sharp, Sony, Samsung, etc. I'm using 16:10 as an example, because that's what people complain about the most (huge 16:10 thread in hardware). My point is, there's no sense in writing well 16:10 is far superior if it's not even offered by most OEMs.

Alot of laptops smaller than 15" are being sold with 1080p, business and consumer laptops.

Alot of 15.6" laptops are coming with 3k screens, and more will come. The smaller 3k screen I think is on the Yoga 2 Pro, 13.3" 3k is probably too small.

16:9 for the most part does suck, I'm not going to lie about that. BUT what it has given is the ability to go higher resolutions on much more notebooks (think 4-5 years ago, how many notebooks had 1680x1050 or 1920x1200 vs notebooks now with a 1080p option). There was a time when 1280x800 was the only option on 13.3", then 1440x900 and it maxed out. Now there are 13.3" convertible laptops with 3k. With that growth of higher resolutions screens, ultra HD was bound to happen, and look at the computer industry now.

 

The position of Officer of Medical Informatics is open at our hospital, would you care to apply? With your good sense we can waive the MD requirement since we know nothin' bout pickin' no thin'pad anyway.

You summarized what I need better than I did.

- large enough screen real estate - minimum 13.3, but up to 15.6", or otherwise I might as well lug around an XPS 18 (laugh it up, but I briefly - very, very briefly entertained it over a fraction of a second).

- must have sensible, non-bulimic resolutions (pixel "binging" followed by pixel "purging" by way of down-resolution is not my idea of healthy IT practice), and a minimum of 1050p in short axis in non-negotiable (my biggest, and practically only gripe with my LT1423p to date).

- Adequately powered processor (i5/i7 with a minimum 4MB L3 - ideally 6 - 8MB L3 cache to handle Dragon with aplomb)

- Weight should be sensible (< 4 lb but we will be realistic).

- Must support convertible or standalone tablet function, which means not only touch, but for a doctor, pen input.



I didn't know about the Vaio Fit 15" Flip. But thanks to you now I do. I can grudgingly make myself live with its 5+ lb heft, and even strip out the non-essentials to work with its 4MB cache, but only if it has pen input. But the Vaio Fit doesn't. Let me know if I am mistaken.


Basically let's put it this way, if any OEM/ODM put out a 13-14"er with IPS SXGA+/WSXGA+ IPS, sporting a pen, and with a processor just a notch higher than the SP2/TPY, I would instantly recommend to my peers in an official capacity without reservation.

Even warranty is optional. Just kidding.

Wait - they did make those - in 2006! albeit with lesser processors and TN panels.

How can we not be bitter? The real culprit is M$ of course. But here we digress.


For the time being I recommend all my co-workers to wait for the iPad Pro, which is likely to have a sensible effective resolution, even though likely without a pen. Nor can it do Dragon, which is a pity. But at least Citrix works impeccably on iOS and it is a workable platform first and foremost because of its functional layout.

I singled out Lenovo in fact because Lenovo has been perhaps the most innovative plant in this wasteland called "Window's ecosystem" filled from top to bottom with also-rans and me-too cheapskates.

Basically Lenovo right now just needs to fix one thing: a sensible sized screen with sensible layout (that's resolution combined with aspect ratio). It's got pen, processor, and most other areas as well down pat as any Windows ODM can hope for. The TPY was in fact a very serious contender in my book. I also have high hopes for the yet-to-come Skylake Helix 2 (repeat after me, Lenovo: 14" 1050p).

I am waiting to see what our new "private" Dell pulls out of its hat, if anything.

I gave up on HP even though my home computer is a Z400 with Xeon W3580 (bought it "new old stock" and couldn't afford it "new new"). Similarly I have an ML110 G6 pulling desktop duty in my parents' house and an Elitebook 8730w in its 17.3" 1200p goodness in mother-in-law's house (I purchased all of those since I use them for work on occasions when I am there and tax break on IT capital is one of the few perks still accorded to a hard-working small business person).

But the current HP offerings just leave my head shaking.


Anyway, let me leave on a positive note. If Lenovo is compelled to aid and abet Japan Inc. in its perpetration of IT fraud by pumping out more and more of that bulimic nK display on the dumb and dumber only to raise cash, then don't let me stop them (nor can I stop them). After all, they want to ape Apple and Cupertino did succeed at that (albeit with equal emphasis on form and function).

Work harder Lenovo. A real prosumer device may be within your reach yet.

 

Thanks, but no thanks. At this stage of my life I prefer to stay as far from hospitals as reasonably possible, and visiting them daily for whatever purpose isn't my idea of fun or pleasant work environment

While I haven't seen or used this, according to Sony web site, it does, has IPS screen (choice of 1080p or 1620p), and pen input (pen is included in some configurations). User Guide | How to Use the Pen . Even, unlike Thinkpads of late, it does have full keyboard, with Insert, Delete, and Pause/Break physical keys.

AFAIR the only 14" Tablet PC existed from popular brands was a Toshiba Tecra-something-or-other. I was contemplating to buy one at the time, but it wasn't exactly popular so was hard to find in physical stores to have a look. And that wasn't any lighter, nor had any better battery life, than this Sony.

Aha, found it, Toshiba Tecra M7 Tablet PC - Our Full Review . 900p TN screen btw.

Wait for vaporware, which is highly unlikely to have larger that 12" screen (4:3 12" device is quite big) even if released? And is most likely to have the exact same resolution as iPad 4/Air? And can't do anything you want it to do, possibly not even have pen support? And still recommended? I don't really follow the logic.

 

Well we tried.

D@mn you are a resource! I just attempted configuration, and right there is the pen indeed for $40! Can't steal it any cheaper. I don't mind N-trig for apparently it is more accurate and responsive than Wacom anyway. Having said that, my LT1423p passes in these two critical aspects. But I can always use more of a good thing.

What I have no particular use for is this 2^64 pressure sensitivity. So all the more reason for us to look into N-trig I suppose.

I vaguely recall that the Vaio's flip mechanism has been criticized. But then again, the long-term mechanical reliability of the TPY keyboard trick is also far from proven.

I really should've looked at this device more closely.

Perhaps "we" at the hospital would. We trialed a few tablets last year that included Motion and SP1 - both extremely wanting for our purposes.

Now we only have to weigh the 5 lb and factor in the relatively anemic U processor. Having said that, SP2 users reported good results with Dragon Medical so it's unlikely a deal breaker for us. Besides, most people use Dragon on desktops anyway - mobile voice recognition is hampered by other factors (noise filtering/cancellation limitation etc).

This 15" 1080p Sony sure is a contender right now. Maybe I should return the T440p? I still am quite taken by the LT1423p, however. Besides, I won't be able to "wear" the Sony Vaio as I do the T440p. But that's a minor quip only pertaining to crazy me. Other colleagues might indeed find the Vaio meeting all their needs.

I am afraid I now have to take the laurel away from Lenovo since Sony is at least as innovative.

BTW, I am still hoping that the old stalwart Fujitsu will come to its senses. Maybe, just maybe with Skylake it will.

Weren't there SXGA+ versions of Tecra back in 2006-7 (around the time of the M7)? But all that was water under the bridge ...

We will all find out later this year whether the 12+" iPad "Pro" is vaporware. Apple is known for a lot of things, and vaporware so far hasn't been their specialty. But there could always be a first.

I will stake my non-existent reputation here that it won't be 16:9 though.

The thing is: if it is something close to 1280x1024 (effective resolution after pixel-doubling or tripling), at a 12.9" diagonal, then a pen may not be needed while a humble "capacitive stylus" may do the trick. That's pure speculation on my part, of course.

 

iOS apps are known of being developed with certain resolution in mind (or 2x that), unlike Android and Windows apps, which always had to consider various hardware and screen options. Changing aspect ratio in iPhone5 caused lots of extra trouble for developers, and black bars in apps that haven't been updated.

So it's fairly certain that whatever that iPad Pro is going to be, if anything, it's going to have the same 4:3 aspect ratio and the same 2560x2048 (or 4096 x 3072), just larger physically.

 

Just want to point out that if it indeed comes with 2560x2048 (you seem to have a pretty good knack at knowing who has what), then this is 1280x1024 pixel doubled - strictly speaking 5:4 and not 4:3.

And if it does come in at 12.9" diagonal, then what we will have is a blue-blooded SXGA device at a very functional effective PPI of 127, and just a smidgeon under the finger-friendly 20mm effective dot pitch (after pixel-doubling of course).

Almost the exact effective resolution specs of a 2011/12 13.3 MBA/MBP.

Apple knows what a gold standard is and I am just not surprised.

You'd really want to cry for Lenovo/HP/Dell and all other Redmond slaves.

A device like this I cannot not buy for my work, irrespective of the snazziness of my LT1423p's pen, or how happy I am with Dragon use in a relatively quiet place on my current rig. It may even come in at 1.5 lbs - just under the LT1423p itself!

I don't need to advise my colleagues in the hospital. You can't keep them away from it.

I just came back from an evening departmental retreat, and I saw 4 MBPs (no MBA however), a slew of iPads/iPhones (a given), one lonesome beat-up HP and one convertible Windows tablet that kept on going into standby while the guy was using it to give a presentation.

In the entire hospital I do not know a single doc with a Surface anything. I did come across a couple of admin and an IT support person using it. Of course these admins and IT support guy don't have to actually use our workhorse medical software.

HP/Dell/Lenovo really don't deserve to be routed like this.

I know someone will be indignant at how I just arbitrarily hopped from Think brand's "sale" to trolling over innocent ol' MS. I kind of explained myself in a previous post and I don't even care to rebut those who question it.

No I just feel sorry for Lenovo.

No it will never ever with a proverbial snowball's chance in hell to be the next Apple, and not because it's a darling of the "Chinese guvment", nor because its black exterior is not sexy, not even because it bundles Norton with my T440p without a choice.

But simply because it is OEM for Redmond.

It's been nice conversing with you on this forum, Power7. All the best to you.

And your long-suffering loyal thinkpadders and above all, Redmond groupies can now pile it on. I am outta here - for now.

 

What is the point of this water cooler chat?

 

Yeah, my mistake, new ipads are 2048x1536. Apple might double it again, just for fun, to 4Kx3K, still staying 4:3 and preserving compatibility with existing apps.

5:4 is unlikely, might as well do a square

Yes. Whatever is well advertised And even then, iPhone/iPod aspect ratio has become 16:9, and iPad has become 8", despite all the "we know better what's best for you" marketing for years.

Just in addition to decent hardware and great marketing, Apple also makes decent general purpose software. Arguably, Google and Microsoft do even better job in certain areas, worse in others. But there isn't anyone else even in the same league really, so the Lenovo & Co are surely OEMs.

And that's for everyone's best: when Lenovo, Samsung and Asus try not to be OEM, and start putting their fingers into something they have no clue about, particularly software, disaster follows. E.g. Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 1. How bad it really can be if Lenovo tweaks a few things in Android, and puts a bunch of their own "fine apps"? Very bad, unusable bad. I own one, I know.

Worse, Lenovo's new Beijing R&D team who's fine ideas we apparently seeing in the last year, has real difficulties distinguishing between good and bad choices. If, by sheer accident, Lenovo has decent software - e.g. Power Manager, it's thrown away. When they have best keyboard layout and trackpoint, praised by any review, they iteratively replace it with worse and worse versions, to absolutely ridiculous ones.

So yeah, I wish Lenovo stayed an OEM for Redmond. And made well made black laptops, with good screens, standard keyboard and trackpoint inherited from IBM designs. But no such luck

 

Just like somewhat larger R50p a decade ago...

QFT, plain and simple.

 

Why is everyone so angry about having Norton/McAfee bundled, it takes like one minute to remove...

 

16:9 has enabled more laptops to be sold with Full HD. How did we know 1920x1200 wouldn't have been sold in 12-13"? There's no way we could know. But now there are 11-13" laptops with 1080p (real world data). Apple has such a small grip on the market compared to PC OEMs. My point being, it's a transition period, enabling more and more laptops to get Full HD, and now 3-4k. I'd prefer 1920x1200, and 16:10, heck I still like high res 4:3, but they aren't sold in newer laptops when I need the power.

 

NBR, where every product line regression thread turns into a aspect ratio war.


BTW, avaerage customers in main land China can simply smuggle TP's from HK/US at reasonable prices, which they all do. So overseas sells is still important to Lenovo, even if plenty of those end up back in China.

TP's "global" warranty works almost around the globe, but not in China.

 

Why should they sell the ThinkPad brand, just the name alone suffices to sell them, as ThinkPad has a long history of building awesome notebooks. Even if they want to sell the brand, who wants to buy them, the most huge OEMs already have a buisnessline or, or, or... I don't think that it would be easy to sell ThinkPad, however I have not enough knowledge on this topic to give an answer.

My question is: Why is everybody hating Lenovo ThinkPads so much? I personally never experienced an IBM Thinkpad, so I can not judge how much better or worse they were, although I think that the usual "in the past everything was better" plays a part in here, good memories get exaggerated and bad ones marginalized, happens to me as well, not with ThinkPads, but it does. Of course there are issues with the ThinkPad series, but in comparison to other laptop series they are pretty good. My father equipes his whole company with T-Series notebooks and they work with them for a long time before any problems occour and these can be easily solved in the usual case. My father actually ditched his T61 last year in autumn, as he wanted a lighter device with better performance. During the lifetime of the T61 he had the keyboard and battery exchanged once (due to abrasion), but nothing broke down while he was traveling constantly with it(My father usually uses a plane twice a day). I exchanged the the keyboard, touchpad and battery and reinstalled Windows and the laptop is like new (exept of some scratches,...). My T420 works great to, exept of one small issue which cannot be fixed by Lenovo (if it is the suspected CPU whining). When I help a friend with their notebooks or hear story from somebody I always feel myself reassured that a ThinkPad was a right choice as their PCs have issues you do not hear from ThinkPad users, e.g. broken HDD, Touchpad doesn't respond, battery doesn' recharge,... All this happened in less than a year after buying the Laptop and they usually have poorly designed keyboards, displays which should rather be used as mirrors, an insufficient amount of connections, no swapable batteries (some ultrabooks) or too small batteries and a really poor customer service.

Have a great day,

gunit

 

I think someone either here or in neighboring topic had a good answer to that - for people that never experienced an IBM ThinkPad going to Lenovo ThinkPad is like going from an economy class car to BMW, whereas for people like me or ajkula66 it's like going from Ferrari to BMW.

T61 series were actually IMHO among the best ThinkPads ever - sure, by then Lenovo already bought the brand, but they haven't "innovated" it much yet, with exception of switch to plastic/roll-cage instead of solid magnesium composite (there are +/- to both), wide screens (arguably) and addition of windows key (actually) - pretty useful. The *20 series, sadly, are the last decent ThinkPads, with signs of things to come among the E-series machines. The universally mutilated keyboard in *30 series was the beginning of the end, the clickpad in *40 series is an atrocity. Sure, I still bought W540, but not because it's the best machine ever, it's just (marginally) better than anything else currently present on the market.

 

i doubt the ThinkPad line has any worth to other companies, also most computer companies are trying to exit the PC business where possible. If Lenovo sells ThinkPad line, they also have to sell the IdeaPad line too, which basically means Lenovo exits the PC business entirely, while the PC business is not a huge profit turner for Lenovo, it is a core business asset. Until Lenovo has some other more profitable business, i doubt they will sell the Think business and exit PC business as a whole. Maybe Lenovo could sell furniture and whitegoods or cars.

 

A better question is why would IBM sell the thinkpad line in the first place if it were so viable.

 

There is no single simple answer to this question but the closest we'll get to it is by observing that IBM started changing the direction dramatically in 1999/2000 and that the sale of PC Division was pretty much the last step...prior to the sale of the low-end server line that Lenovo just bought as well.

The reorganization started while the business was still very good.

 

I remembered the announcement from IBM in 1999 that it would focus more on the service side as it was (and still is ) more stable. IBM in Atlanta, Georgia, still makes a lot of money just by repairing the thinkpads for Lenovo.

The low-end servers line that IBM just sold to Lenovo has been a money loser for several years.

 

Actually, Atlanta is just a call center, they do not repair anything. The repair depot in Memphis is run by Flextronics.

 

IBM PC problem started with young Bill Gates refusing to hand over the ownership of its OS, and also decide to go with Open source for its parts.

 

I miss sending things to IBM EZServ, it was a little bit smoother than shipping it to Lenovo.

 

massive dent in their revenue