Will there be a 2009 T-Series Update?

Hi All-

I'll need to purchase a new notebook before fall, as I'm going back to school. I need something portable that I can reliably use the hell out of, so I've decided that a T400 would be a great choice.

I'll end up waiting until the end of the summer to make the purchase anyway, but I'm curious if anyone has heard if Lenovo is planning on any updates or refreshes for the T-series in 2009? I know a lot of manufacturers do yearly updates to their product lines in addition to releasing all new models.

Does Lenovo follow a predictable roadmap for udpdates/refreshes?

The T400 looks great, but ideally I'm hoping for an update that provides better screen options (LED 1440x900 or high-nit LED 1440x900) or possibly a bit beefier GPU.

 

You won't see any update from Lenovo that involves a complete refresh of the T400 line, they only really do that to coincide with a new chipset from Intel. Look to early next year for such a thing.

That doesn't rule out some type of "tweak" to the existing line such as the dual screen addition on the W700. If you wait until end of summer you may see something, but I don't think it will involve any GPU upgrades.

 

thank you very much for the info
i wonder if anyone has heard rumors about such "tweaks" you mention
if nothing else, i really hope lenovo figures out a solid 1440x900 LED solution by the time i'm ready to buy

 

Nope, 90% sure there won't even be a feature addition to the T-series before the next refresh with Intel's Calpella platform.

 

Aren't things going slower than they use to? I mean it is more than a year ago the T400 was unveiled. And that was hardly an upgrade over the two year old T61p.

The T400 is basically a fatter, slower and wider version of the T61p. It has ridiculous bezel size around the screen, slower graphics card and a much wider footprint for a 14".


It is the same with the much-hyped X200 and X300. Look at the two year old X61. It is actually much sleeker design and smaller footprint, with comparable specs.

What's up with this backwards innovation?

 

The mobile platforms are not at all the same...but if you want to point out that you don't like the transition to widescreen, that's fine. Also the t61p is basically now the slot the w500 fills.

The x200 would obviously have a larger foot print because of the widescreen, but benefits from a full sized keyboard. The x300 was not in existence. If you don't like the new thinkpads, that is fine but "hardly" an upgrade is a bit disingenuous. You might not see the value from current models vs the earlier ones but they have been redesigned and are quite different. Whether you see the value in the new models or like them is a different matter entirely.

 

how is the T400 fatter, slower, and wider than a T61p? none of that makes any sense.

 

It's not the transition to wide-screen. It's the fact that all the models are significantly bulkier than they would have to be for the screen size. The bezel sizes shows it clearly. In that sense design-wise its a step backwards.

No, because the old t61p was 14". That was clearly a "thin & light" segment. You can't really say that the W500 is

True. The X200 is actually a good design. The X300 really suffers from the excess space around the keyboard and screen, making it extra bulky compared to models from Sony for example.

Yes thats the point. It's IMO more of a redesign than a significant upgrade. And bear in mind i am comparing to more than two year old models. Normally you would expect new models to be clearly better in all aspects.

 

Fatter
Its heavier 2.4 kg vs 2.3 kg. And the 6 cell battery needs to stick out in the back and down. (It used to be inside)

Slower
It has a slower graphics card. (the processor speeds are very close to being identical).

Wider
It clearly has a larger footprint.

...And still we are talking about comparing the T400 to a more than two year old model. Maybe it has better battery life, but it comes with sticking out the battery. That is hardly a progress in my book.

 

The T61p came in both 14.1 and 15.4 inch models. It would be nice to have something like a W400 to fill the gap, but that seems unlikely. But T400 and T61p can't really be compared since they were intended for different uses.

 

I hardly consider the 14-15inch range to be something that demands thinness. Improved weight is great, but I foremost would like to keep the machine running cool. I am sure the machines would be thinner if the engineers felt they could keep the certain overall balance of the machine in weight/temp/performance intact.

I don't see why the bezel size is that big of a deal for you though. These machines are hardly good looking to begin with. I want it to work given my uses.

And the w500 is just lenovo hedging its products from the former t61p (which was both 14 and 15inch) into a single 15inch platform. You might not agree with that decision.

Also I do not think highly of sony's build quality, although its ultraportables are better than the rest of the offerings. So I would rather have some pretty decent weight levels with good build quality.

You could compare lenovo's offerings to the dell e latitudes which can be had for pretty good deals in the outlet, but I think there are different pros and cons of any of the machines you consider. It is really about engineering certain attributes and forgoing others (or to some extent).

That being said have you had the opportunity to use the new thinkpads. Some say they feel the older machines are better quality, which is valid. I am just curious if you've had your hands on any yet.

 

True that a w400 could be nice.

But i am comparing the T61p and the T400, because i was simply looking for the best Thin & Light segment laptop. And the t400 is a step backwards.

Sony, Apple, and every other brand has a powerful Thin/light laptop in the line-up. In lenovos line-up the Two year old T61p 14" is still the best they can offer both in terms of graphics power AND size.

 

I actually like the Thinkpads because of the no-nonsense design. For example the X200 is one of the coolest looking laptops out there. This is also the only one of the new designs that seems 'minimized' to fit screen and keyboard. Maybe i should get one of those instead.

Yes i have, i still think they have a pretty good build quality.

 

Isn't the x301 lenovos thin and light model? I thought that t400 was the portable desktop replacement machine that competes with dell latitudes.

 

Yes, but the X300's have no dedicated graphics, and pretty slow processors.

Then thin/light segment is normally defined by having medium/top-specs, in a thin/light package. Like the Sony SR series or the Sony Z series or Apple Macbooks. They all have pretty good dedicated graphics, and fast processors. And they are sized like the x300's.

 

"But T400 and T61p can't really be compared since they were intended for different uses."

Briefly what are the different intended uses for the T400 and T61p? Does a used T61p still hold some market value? If the W500 goes for about $1,500, a used 15.4" T61p would make sense up to what dollar amount?

 

The T61p is still worth some $$. I don't think I can accurately give an exact dollar amount, but I would guess in the high 3 digits area. It was designed as a mobile workstation with a powerful graphics card good for 3d work. The T400 is a business class laptop, and it's the newest from Lenovo as of now, so it offers some additional features like switchable graphics, led screen, and newer C2D procs, and better battery life over the T61p.

If you're looking at these two, then you've probably read the T400 Review and the T61p Review

 

The T61p uses NVS GPU while the W500 uses FigeGL.
W series are 3D focused laptops with OpenGL needs.
NVS GPUs are 2D cards.

 

From a reliable source indicates that there will be a T400s coming in second half of 2009.
The weight is going to be under 4lbs, and with a Intel SP processor and integral video card.

 

I had a t61p and it was 15.4" and I got it October 2007.

 

CPU I understand, but what is "integral video card"? Is it only an IGP like Intel's?

 

interesting... can you link anything or say anything more?

 

The T400s doesn't seem like much of an update:

http://itvoir.com/portal/news/News/Lenovo-to-bring-T400s-with-built-in-security-tools.asp

Doubt it will be < 4lbs. Seems to be a more secure version. If anything else is to be different, it would probably be similar to how the X200 and X200s are.

 

No, this is not that late 2008 "security" model.
The new T400s will be redesigned, I can't really say much about it, it is from the same source as last time when the first X200 came out, and I got an information that the new X200s will equipped with a WXGA+ LED screen, which turned out to be true few month later.

So, guess we just have to wait and see

 

thanks, man! keep us updated when you're able, please.

 

Wow, so many new speculations/models... first I read about Dell Latitude Z and now this. I really hope it's true, we need some fresh blood... I mean models.

 

A picture is better than a thousand words.

 

Pretty hard to see but you can definitely see something after the T400.

 

The keyboard configuration, especially the design of the media controls, power button and ThinkVantage button, also seem to have been updated. Plus the hinges are different - notice that both are now the same size. Interesting. Getting this at or under 4lbs would be a huge win, if durability and feel were not sacrificed. It's really the only thing holding the T400 back from being a truly great all-around road warrior machine.

 

very interesting! thanks, poky. i'll keep my eye out for future info from you on this.

for the sake of discussion here, i'll point out this link:
http://ark.intel.com/cpu.aspx?groupId=36691
which shows the specs for the "intel sp" processor that was mentioned
looks pretty identical to the current p-series (like p9500), except physically smaller (22mm x 22mm vs 35mm x 35mm)

could i also assume that when poky said it would come with "integral video card," that means that discrete video (like an ATI option) will not be available on this model?

thanks, again, poky - you rock!

 

I don't think so: a discrete video card will be to hot.

 

i suppose that is a safe assumption if the t400s is going to be a reduced size/weight model
i really do like the idea of switchable graphics, though - seems like a defining feature of the current t-series
i'm so eager to learn more about this going forward!

 

Yeah, but looks like an "s" to me. Very interesting, Poky, great information - seems too elaborate for it to be a Photoshop

The new keyboard design is interesting for sure, but I don't like how they made the ThinkVantage blue button straight, in a circular indent - why not match the theme of the other buttons and make it a round blue button? The hinges seem to look slimmer, but it may be the angle. Also, the video cable that is in the middle of the T400/T500 chassis is strangely missing. Perhaps it is finally integrated into the hinges? Or maybe it's just the angle again.

 

TV button is straight on the x200. The esc key looks funny being that big. ESC, ESC, ESC!!!

 

looks interesting, i certainly hope they use better LCD panels than the one that currently come with t400. Something like Apple or Sony uses would be just wonderful.

 

true, that would be excellent
although no glossy screens!

 

Yeah, true. But if they're going for a major keyboard redesign anyway, why not make things more congruous?

I did notice something else though: what is that button between the volume control and the ThinkVantage button? Is it a wireless toggle button, meaning that they (finally) ditched the extremely-hard-to-move wireless on/off switch on the front edge?

 

Big Delete button too.

Strange layout...

 

I don't really understand the function of these "-s" models. Lighter, slower processor, same general form factor? Pardon my ignorance. I'm interested in this as a possible alternative to the x301. The keyboard layout is rather goofy. I'm not even sure why pause/break and ScrLk are needed anymore, but that's a trivial issue.

Thanks for the photo. I've been trying to find info on this model online (mostly chinese sites) and haven't come across any real details, and this photo has a better angle on the altered layout/hinges.

 

where are you getting slower processor from?

 

X301 doesn't have an S option. Only X200 and X200s. The reason why the 's' line has slower processors is because it uses lower power consumption SL series (17W) processors, as opposed to the P series (25W). Also, X200s has LED backlight, rollcage, lighter, carbon/glass fiber top, and longer battery life but no webcam.

 

Sorry I wasn't very clear. I'd be interested in comparing the X301 to the T400s, which isn't really possible since there aren't specs released for the latter yet. Judging from the changes between the X200 and X200s you describe, maybe the same sort of changes would be made to the T400.

The photo here purports to be of the T400s, though it's hard to tell, and kind of doesn't look entirely like the same new keyboard layout shown earlier in this thread (especially the larger delete key). If the T400s is lighter with longer battery life, but still an SL processor unlike the SU of the X301, it could be a close call between them, especially if the T400s turned out to be rather cheaper.

sgogeta4 answered that better than I could.

 

That's an X301 in the picture, I believe.

 

The thinkvantage buttons don't look the same. However the hinges looked covered like on the x301.

 

except poky didn't say the t400s would use sl series processors - he said sp, which aren't really slower than the current procs - similar speeds, same fsb, same cache

 

I was again comparing the differences between the X200 and the X200s to try to infer what changes the T400s might hold. Missed the significance of the SL reference - my mistake.

 

Are they planning on C2quads at all? That would be a worthy update IMHO.

 

Is the T400s sort of like a companion to the actual T400 itself? Or will it replace the current T400?

 

The rumor of T400s originially comes from a site in Taiwan.

The owner of the site has high reputation about numorous "rumors" most of which turned out to be true later.

I believe the T400s will come into our sight soon!

 

Probably be a companion like the X200, X200s, and X200t variants.