Would you consider buying a Thinkpad if you had a Macbook Pro ?

Foxconn, Wistron, Sanmina-SCI, and Compal all have produced various components/systems for Lenovo. In the past Quanta also produced ThinkPads for Lenovo, but I don't believe they've done any fab since the Z6x series (at least not for ThinkPads).

Lenovo designs the ThinkPads. Other companies (mostly) build them. I believe Lenovo does do some manufacturing (they bought Sanmina-SCI, after all), but they certainly don't do all of it.

It's also interesting that you think that QC was lacking for every ThinkPad after the 600X, considering that spans nearly a decade of machines produced by at least six different manufacturers.

Yeah, Lenovo's failing and they don't know it.

IBM made the smart move because they know that you just can run a PC division profitably any more.

Good call.

Just a couple minor points of order:

1) IBM's PC division was *never* a profit center. Not once. It lost money nearly every year of its existence.

2) IBM didn't sell their PC division solely because they didn't want to lose money. IBM sold it as part of a much larger shift towards a service-centric business model, and because -- as has been their strategy for decades -- they try to avoid competing in commoditized markets.

3) Lenovo's run IBM's PC division profitably, with the last several years being record-breakers for them.

4) Lenovo's managed to increase their market share and profit, year after year, in contrast to many of their competitors such as HP.

5) That T4x that you held up as an example of being superior to Lenovo's current T series? IBM didn't make it. Like Lenovo nowadays, they too outsourced manufacturing to a third party. If the problems you perceive with Lenovo's current offerings were a result of outsourcing production, don't you think that they would have shown up back c. 2001 when IBM started doing the same thing?

But apart from all that, you're exactly right.

Smarmy response aside, I do actually agree with part of your statement: laptop QC now is a lot less stringent than it was in the early 90s. Then again, improvements in technology have reduced the need for many of the strict tolerances that were common back then. Standardized connectors, more interchangeable parts, more durable components, etc. have all enabled looser tolerances to be used with no harm to overall durability. Sure, that carbon-fiber lid may not feel as solid as the old inch-thick ABS one -- but it's also a fraction of the width, and houses a screen that doesn't need as much coddling, since it lacks fragile mercury-filled bulbs. The plastic on a T420 may creak a bit more than your T41 when you pick it up by a corner, but it the planar won't bend and kill your GPU. Etc.

Laptops have changed a lot in the last two decades. There are engineering constraints other than price. People nowadays don't want two-inch-thick laptops. They don't want to put up with tiny screens (at least on desktop-replacement notebooks). A 100-nit passive display isn't acceptable. 2 hours of battery life is unacceptable, not the average. Comparing a notebook that was designed to meet the expectations of the 90s with one that was designed to meet the expectations of 2011 (or vice versa) is just silly.

 

+9000

There's a planned obsolescence conspiracy in everything everywhere, but maybe I'm being too cynical.

 

don't believe everything you read, because they are not always accurate. If Lenovo only gets involved in 1% of the manufacturing company, they are still called a manufacturer.

Also, regarding the 600x, how much did it cost? and how much does it cost now when you factor in CPI?

HP left because the people at the top were incompetent with PC market and they made lot of wrong decisions that drove them into the corner. Like the WebOS saga.... The fact that Apple can make so much money out of these consumerised products, while others failed.... means that there are still money to be made if you have the right strategy and product.

Pioneer got out of the Plasma business, because no one really buys Plasma TV anymore, due to the shorter lifespan, heat output, energy consumption and the fact that LCD can undercut them in cost and volume.

Regarding BMW, well they may not manufacture everything, but they do manufacture a large chunk of their car chassis (from roll of sheet steel from Micelor and they are the final assembler of these parts. Lenovo don't really do much assembly anymore (like most other tier one computer companies).

 

Not really, in fact your statement is still far too optimistic. Actually it is much worse, as this has become the basis of our economy and culture.

 

I would not underestimate the resale value of your current machine. There is a very active market for machines 3-4 years old. As a selling strategy, always sell with a month or two left on the warranty. Potential buyers like that.

I neglected to offer you some recommendations.

As a programmer, I would stick with a 15 or 17" machine. The T520 and W520 from Lenovo with the 1600x900 or FHD 1920x1080 screen would be good programmer platforms.

The Dell Precision M4600 or M6600 are also good dev machines.

In the HP line, look at the 15 and 17" EliteBooks. Like the Dell, they offer some pretty stellar screen choices.

 

The next round of Macbook Airs with Ivy Bridge, better GPU performance and USB 3.0 support are going to be tempting -)

 

i think Apple MBA is always tempting in so many ways. But Ultrabook + windows 8 will also produce some very interesting machines.

 

Unless they've got a good screen, they'll hold little interest for me. I'll stick with the X220 or X221. That's the real appeal of the 13" Air, it's got an above average WXGA+ LCD. Plus, the pixel density for a 13" 1600x900 LCD is starting to get a bit high.

 

For OP i've found the answer to your problem on a blog.

Her points are valid to some degree.

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Why do I hate my IBM Thinkpad? Let me count the ways…

#1: It’s so damn CHUNKY.

I am a commuter, which I would think like most of the working population. And I do carry around my IBM Thinkpad almost every single day. It’s just so HEAVY that my shoulders, wrists and back is suffering. BOO!

I just actually came from a grueling climb up to the house with my laptop AND gym bag. Not good. Hello IBM! Have you ever thought of making your laptops lightweight? Oh and could you stop issuing the useless un-ergonomic standard IBM Thinkpad bag?

#2: I click so many times before I get to the file I need.

After being exposed to the Apple MacBook Pro, the IBM Thinkpad is so not user friendly. To get to a file, I need to click at least 4-5 times to find it. The time wasted from clicking…tsk tsk. Versus the Apple, where I just type in the file name and VOILA!

I now know why they say: when you go Mac, you will never go back.

#3: Battery Life goes kaput at 30%.

Waaaaahhhh! I need to start charging my IBM Thinkpad when it reaches the 30% mark after less than 2-hours of use. How crappy is that? And no, my IBM Thinkpad is not secondhand at all. It’s brand new. Amazing right?

And my 1-year old++ MacBook Pro still lasts for more than 3-hours per use.

#4: Did I mention it weighs a ton?

I just had to say it again! The IBM Thinkpad is soooooo HEAVY!!! I could definitely feel the difference every time I switch to carrying around my Macbook Pro.

HAY.

I wish HR / corporate management of ANY company could reconsider making the Apple Macbook the official laptop. Besides, the Macbook’s cost is already parity with the IBM Thinkpad.

 

@Likvid

That is a very comical quote you have there.

 

Comical indeed.

Also totally lacking in context.

 

It's even simpler than that. They are responsible for the design of the device from start to finish even though they are not building it so they are the manufacturer. It's similar to Microsoft with the Xbox 360 and Sony with the PS3.

Both devices are outsourced and built in China but both companies are considered the manufacturer. Case in point with the Xbox 360 RROD fiasco. Microsoft was held accountable as the mfg and had to extend the warranty so as to stave off class action lawsuits. And it was down to defective and inferior solder on the motherboards that would break. It was done at the outsource plant in China but MS was accountable for the product and was viewed as the mfg.

The problem here is one individual wants to lump ALL Lenovo products into one and calls them junk. I can do the same and call all HP laptops junk because of the infamous Infinity displays that were susceptible to dust getting trapped behind the glossy screen. It gets silly doesn't it?

 

@Rodster, the RRoD problem was due to the use of solder with low lead contents to conform to the new RoHS standards pushed out by EU (which is a good thing due to the reduction of hazardous eWastes), the use of low lead solder have caused many problems in the electronic industry, from the Nvidia failing GPU to the Sony PS3 YLOD.

MS is accountable because they are the brand company that marketed the product, how the liabilities were spread out would depend on the contractual agreements they had.

 

setup your libraries for easier access or hotkeys. after doing graphics design and video editing for 20 years on Mac's I actually left the Mac platform 2 years ago thinking the exact opposite.

For the type filename to open in OSX. in W7 push windows key and type filename, app name or even a partial, its been around since XP actually and will search inside of your documents as well for keywords, I love it comapred to the revamp in Lion and S.L.

which thinkpad? my X220 on a really bad day gives me 9 hours and averages 11.25. it also charges 3 time faster than my MBA or MBP 13". your gving bad examples here. lets try comparing similar machines

yes Ive heard this alot. by weight there isnt alot of difference. size yes but its a trade off between durability, thermal management and performance.

most businesses cant even think about it until Apple adds HARDWARE level TPM encryption gives options for real docking units and not these mickey mouse USB/TB things, fixes OSX to work securely on their existing network infrastructure and billions of dollars worth of custom applications could be ported to OSX. not to mention adds small things like WWAN, and remote shutdown and wipe, at a firmware or hardware level.

small to medium companies wil also not look at MBP's until business class warranty is available and proven, you cant get NBD onsite warranty with Apple. there is no acidental protection etc.

your comment is actually funny because unless your in a niche business such as small to medium graphics design and are hung up on the aesthetics going Apple is like going Acer Aspire. ( the Timelines and Travelmates are nice )

 

The PS3 GPU issue was also solder related as there is a company in the US that now does the reballing service for the 1st Gen PS3's. My point was that MS and Sony can be considered the manufactures as they initiate the design and send them off for outsources but they are responsible for the implementation of those designs. They are also responsible for signing off on the outsource company so indirectly both can be viewed as the manufacturer.

Also the original Xbox 360 had an atrocious cooling system which added to the high failure rates along with failing solder joints.

 

the contract manufacturer does everything to the spec required by the company, they are purely just responsible for assembly of these products. So whatever solder they use, would follow the requirement that the brand/design company put out.

FYI, Foxconn was responsible for the assembly of these gaming consoles.

Problem with low lead solder is that they do not stand up to repeated thermal stress or mechanical stress that well. Nor do they handle electromigration loss that well either.

 

Yeah I already knew it was Foxconn and i'm aware of the solder issues. Back in the 70's when I was a bench tech and we actually troubleshot down to the component we used 60/40 resin core. I still have a supplier for that solder.

 

T420s advertised thickness: 0.95" - 1.05"
Macbook Pro 13" advertised thickness: 0.95"

Same functionality exists in any modern Windows or Linux environment. But I blame PEBCAK here.

User-replaceable batteries. Nuff said.

T420s: 3.94 lbs with optical drive installed
MBP 13": 4.5 lbs (Half a pound heavier and 1" less screen space. Who weighs a ton now?)


I guess it wouldn't have been a post about Macs without the FUD. </facts>

 

actually, I liked Macbook Pro too when I went to shop to compare lenovo w520 vs Macbook Pro 17, here are my finale thoughts:

1. 17 inch screen on mac pretty cool + it has 1200 in height compared to 1080 on lenovo 15 inch.
2. Mac has some wow effect and positive feeling while using it, w520 is just pro tool without much fun feeling while using it, until your are geek.
3. Mac has very good big trackpad/mousepad?
4. Non removed battery with Mac not so big issue, as most peoples using external batteries with Macs, what can power 17 inch pro book up to 40 hours + U don't need to replace battery, so U don't need to shutdown mac - just put cable from battery in your bagpack to your mac and you are running. Same batteries will work for lenovo though.
5. Mac Case looking cool, not sure how practice is it - I mean scratches, dents e.t.c. In this case lenovo looks more reliable, but not so fashion like.
6. Mac pretty hot even while idle, it's using his case as radiator to dispense heat, so it's good thing while you are somewhere in cyberia or alaska, but not so cool while running in hot countries, as under heavy load it must be very hot.
7. Mac keyboard layout + Mouse ONE button click is very specific thing if you are using many vmwares on your mac with linux and windows inside, it maybe nightmare for you.
8. No good dock stations for Mac, only some port replicators.
9. No easy way to connect 2 external monitors to mac pro, yeah you can 2 connect new thunderbolt monitors, but you need to buy them first from mac or you have to use some vidock or matrox dual/triple head.
10. From Mac owners I really rare hear that something doesn't work, so it's pretty good product where everything works from the box. You don't need to update bios/drivers all the time to make your system stable - like you may need to do it with W520 what has long list of issues what hurts many peoples and 0.1 response from lenovo regarding this.
11. You can't install second HDD on mac 15/17 without breaking apple warranty, you can but it's not allowed, so you need to hide this activity if you'll need to return mac to your warranty.
12. Mac is usually more expensive.
13. With mac no 3g modem inside.
14. only 2 ram dimms on 17 inches macbook pro, so do you want 16gb ram? be ready to pay 500$ for this upgrade on aftermaket.

Finally, I like more Lenovo, as I more geek like person, not fashion dude, but I'am very doubtful about stability and reliability after reading all these long threads with issues regarding W520 model I like.

 

In all honestly I'm getting REAL tired of Windows. Running virus scanners 4X a week is starting to get old real quick. Although I guess after 4 years of owning the same laptop AND being on it's original hard drive is something to brag about lol

With that being said, I'd love to get a MBA, or MBP as my next laptop. I went to the apple store a few month back to play with the at the time new MBA and LOVED the MAC OS. (This is coming from someone who has NEVER used a Apple computer before, but has had an iPhone since 2007 lol). But ya, I loved it. Computer seems really durable, OS was silky smooth, and the chances of it getting a virus are MUCH slimmer than a Windows based computer. Also, the screen was EXCELLENT, battery life phenomenal, excellent built-in web-cam, etc.

So when my Thinkpad T61 craps out on me (I'm hoping to have at LEAST another 2-3 years with her), then my next computer will almost definitely be an Apple product. I'll still use my Thinkpad X301 for vacations / on the road use, but my primary machine will be a Mac.

Just my .02 cents

 

MBA is a revelation, but the MBP format seems somewhat failing behind, since it is thicker and heavier then what it needs to be.

I think MBA format is really cool. But Ultrabook will soon flood the market and Windows 8 metro interface will also make the Windows more user friendly (well for simple tasks).

 

The 17" W70x had WUXGA. The difference in size makes it difficult to compare.

More of a personal taste issue. My viewpoint is that the ThinkPad design stands out as distinctive and professional.

Things do break due to updates over on OSX, but Apple's structure lets them assess and repair faster.

Erm. Pick a good real-time security solution, free or paid, and leave it be. I've been with Kaspersky for a few years and have had zero malware issues and essentially never bother to run a virus scan manually except for when I have a suspicious flash drive from someone else. Then again, it's never actually caught anything significant, which I hope means I'm being vigilant enough.

Lol, no.

You can disable a lot of the flashy animations in Windows to make it go faster. An SSD drive helps, but a well-defragmented platter drive can also be very fast.

See above .

We've got those too on the X220 in the form of IPS, 9-cell, and 720p webcam. XD

 

ThinkPad T420s 14" with 1600x900 screen versus MacBook Pro (SandyBridge) 13" 1280x800 - ThinkPad is lighter:



MBP - horrible screen reflections, small keyboard, no TrackPoint, hot aluminium at the bottom, cold at the top:



MBP - sharp edge will cut your wrists:



ThinkPad - the best keyboard in the world, smooth surface, always cold, fingerprint reader to quickly authorize both my BIOS password and (different) Windows password:



MBP - I couldn't connect 2 USB devices at once, no VGA (D-Sub), no DisplayPort, no USB 3.0:



No problem connection 2 or more devices with ThinkPad, plenty of ports:



To me, MBP is a joke. Flashy notebook? Yes. Great tool to do my work? No.

Once you try ThinkPad, you cannot go back to inferior tools like MBP.

 

The Thinkpad looks like something from the 70's, i don't care about that but some may do, just a reflection.

1. You bought the wrong screen from Apple, ever seen the Highres antiglare screen? guess not....

2. Sharp edge? yeah right, problem is that your hands never reach that down when you type on a MBP you rest the hand on the palmrest and not the edge, get the point? don't make it a problem when it isn't...

3. USB photo is a stupid comparison as you clearly use a old thick USB device, buy a new USB stick that is smaller and it will fit nicely.

 

Some people love red cars, some black ones. I do love ThinkPad design. Might be retro and uncool for some, but super cool for others, and does the job better. I could not do my work on MBP.

 

1. I can't configure an HR AG screen on the 13" according to Apple.com.

2. I'm on my W520, and my wrist will lie on the edge while typing. Some people have larger hands.

3. I don't think anyone makes USB 3G modems that small in significant quantities if at all. Or USB TV tuner cards. Or pretty much anything cable-less beyond a flash drive.

 

yeah, with mac you too often need to buy new stuff, for dual monitor setups you also have to buy new thunderbolt monitors, it's what officials offered me )) for usb - new flash cards e.t.c.

 

Not available for 13" model (at least where I live). 15" models are too heavy. Hey, even 13" is heavier than 14" ThinkPad.

Those 2 USB devices are pretty slim. Apple design decision is stupid. Looks over usability.

 

A small USB extender cable solve this problem easily on Macs or PCs.

While I am enjoying the spirited debate, it's off topic for the original request on recommendations.

 

Yeah, but you need to carry these cables around + you have to buy them, what doesn't make life easier with mac - isn't it?

 

I bought mine for my ThinkPad T400 with the odd vertical USB connectors. It had nothing to do with a Mac.

These discussions usually gravitate to this level and become unproductive.

 

@Likvid, won't you arguing that you like the quality of the early Thinkpads, because they have a higher quality feel to it? So you are saying that you don't like the Thinkpad design now?

Thinkpads and Apple MBA/MBP represents the opposite spectrum of design philosophy, and such they satisfy a different consumer demographic. There is nothing wrong with liking either of these designs (or both), each has their strengths and weaknesses.

 

Which is why it's hilarious when people go out of their way to compare apples (no pun intended) to oranges.

 

No, none of the MBP issues are insurmountable

You can deal with the USB port placement with some different cables or a new dongle. You can deal with the lack of VGA by buying an adapter. If your battery dies you can send it back to Apple and get it replaced. If you want to upgrade your optical drive you could take it to the Genius Bar and pay them for an upgrade (if one is offered.) You can pay more for a high-res, anti-glare screen upgrade.

In general, with the MBP, if you're willing to pay more you can work around the shortcomings mentioned here.

It's just that with the ThinkPad you don't have to.

 

Some folks view this as an advantage.

If you happen to live in a major metro area with an Apple store, you can go fondle the Apple machines before you buy. That isn't so easy with a ThinkPad. Lenovo doesn't have retail stores and you won't find a ThinkPad W520, X220, X1, or T420s in BestBuy. And BestBuy may not be around much longer.

There is no ThinkPad Genius Bar.

Instead, you get the geniuses here.

 

lol @ fondle

 

Yes the Thinker Team here are the Mavens of their industries (which ever that maybe) and happen to use a Thinkpad as their daily driver.

 

I have always been a mac owner until I bought my W520 recently. They both seem to be very deliberately designed. However, the mac focuses more of sleekness and gloss, and the thinkpad is black and boxy. It's made to be functional, with little attention payed to looking sexy. The thinkpad sacrifices a plasticy feel in order to be more rugged, while the MBP feels more solid even though its much more fragile.

 

Everyone has a different definition of 'sexy'. As a metaphor, some people are into plastic supermodels and others are into librarians with glasses. The MBP has attention paid to looking like a MBP. The Thinkpad had attention paid to look like a Thinkpad.

 

I would, yes. I like having both a dedicated Windows and Mac OS X box. That said, I have both a MacBook Air and a ThinkPad. And I use both nearly every day.