"X2" coming sooner than expected?

Seems like the X1 already has lost its luster. With new ultrabooks and even MBA killers on the horizon (not to mention the new MBA itself), it seems like the X1 already feels dated.

LG introduced the P330 ultrathin, ultrapowerful laptop. It'll be a Sony SA/Z contender and on a totally new league above the X1. It even has a 13.3" IPS screen on a 13.3" body! If Lenovo wants to compete, they'll have to quickly dump the 13" screen in a 14" body concept. New hope for the X2 anytime soon?

 

I am not sure if the Sony Z has an IPS screen. However they do have 1080P on the 13.3in notebook. . The main draw for the Sony is mediadock. The mediadock $600+ on top of a $2000+ notebook is not cheap.

The LG seem to be a good contender, I hasn't hear the pricing option yet.

One of the core advantage of the X1 is that it is Thinkpad TOUGH and the Thinkpad Keyboard. I just hope the LG screen make it's way into the X2. Also please keep in mind that the X1 is just a little over $1000 in the US with coupon.

 

I think he meant that the P330 has an IPS screen, not the Z, although frankly, I'd take a TN 1920x1080 13.3" panel over an IPS 1366x768 13.3" panel.

I agree, though, that the X1 is not as compelling of a package as it could've been. The X220 is a far more logical choice at the moment, although it targets a slightly different audience.

 

It's really too bad the X1 hasn't quite lived up to its hype. The keyboard and thinkpad toughness are appealing, but not quite enough to overcome its screen and lack of discrete graphics.

Get an IPS screen with higher resolution, better screen-to-real estate ratio, and better battery life, and I'd gladly drop 1500 on this one.

 

HD+ IPS screen would be a great option, but I disagree with you on having a discrete graphic on the X1. Please consider that this laptop suppose to be a thin and light laptop, having a discrete graphic go against what it is design for. Although having a media dock that don't cost an arm and a leg would be a great addition

 

Lenovo says the X1 is their halo product, but doesn't design it like one. The T420s should still be their halo product imho.

T420s vs X1 vs P330
3.9lbs 3.7 3.6
26mm 16mm 27mm

Wait, the T420s is actually thinner than the P330! I'm pretty sure the Sony SA comes in at 30mm. The Z is thinner, at 17mm, but lacks and optical drive and other nice stuff that the T420s comes with. Lenovo has a great product that is extremely competitive with the new offerings imho, they just have to act like it.

 

Wow, didn't know that the P330 was that thick. (Note to self: read the whole passage rather than misleading headlines). BTW, the X1 is 21mm at its thickest (you listed all of the other thickest dimensions). And the Sony SA is 23mm thick, which makes it quite impressive and quite hot......

 

Sorry about the mistaken thickness.

I think Lenovo should try their best to shave off a few millimeters from the T4X0s design (maybe chiclet keyboard since that is supposedly thinner, they came up with a lot of stuff for the X1 such as a thinner CPU fan that could be applied to the T4X0s series), swap out the Quadro for a consumer card, and call that the X2. Its a bit heavier, a bit thicker, but it is by far the best built of the ultra things and MBA killers, not to mention a slightly larger screen that may appeal to some.

Lenovo has the best MBA killer out of everything I've seen so far, they just have to advertise it as such.

 

There are thinner and lighter laptops with discrete graphics. If this is Lenovo's magnum opus, they should be able to pack it with practically all the bells and whistles a professional might want...

As is, no GPU + no Optical Drive + Pathetic Battery Life = moderate fail.

 

I don't think that making a 14 would be that popular. You would end up with a thin fragile machine susceptible to torsion/twist.

The problem is: the X1 is not a strong performer, nor does it have good battery life. It looks to be a good quality machine, but on specifications, I would rather have an X220 over it for performance, and the X12x series has comparable battery life.

Provided a notebook computer isn't too high to type on or carry, then the thickness is not the dimension to worry about. The problem is: how much table, lap, or airline tray space a notebook computer takes up.

[I have never felt that my old T61p was too thick, but I'm still asking and asking for something with decent graphic and processor performance, in a 13".]

 

Agreed. The consumer 13" Asus U36SD and Toshiba's R830 offering more (dGPU/ODD) with the same weight or less. For the X2 to distinguish itself it would need:

1) a 900P LCD
2) an eGPU option via 34mm expresscard or Thunderbolt port
3) lighter and thinner like a 13" Sony Z2 or 13" Macbook Air refresh
4) improved battery life, perhaps ditch li-po for flat-packed 16850 cells?
5) work with manufacturers to create SATA-III mSATA drives, so could do RAID-0 mSATA.

Dismantling a 13" Toshiba R830, Sony Z2 and upcoming Macbook Air would give them ideas on how to accomplish this.

I hope they can also integrate the thinness of the E220s into their next X220. In current form, the X220 can be made at least 0.1" thinner since a 9.5mm drive can be made to fit in the 7mm drive bay by dremelling four posts.

 

I'm not really that concerned with thickness either, but obviously there are people that are.

I agree with all of nando's suggestions, but I doubt Lenovo can release a Thinkpad that is as thin and light as its competition. It wouldn't be a Thinkpad then, out of all the ultra thins, I don't see one business laptop. There are compromises to be made when going even thinner and I doubt Lenovo is willing to make them on their Thinkpad line. Dell and HP don't have ultra thin business laptops beyond a few experiments like the Latitude Z600. I don't see any plans for ultra thin business laptops from either company in the future as well.

out of a "main" business ultraportables
Latitude
E4200 20mm (ULV)
E6320 30mm
E6220 25mm
EliteBook
2560p 27mm
Thinkpad
X1 21mm
X220 35mm
T420s 26mm

The thinnest is the Latitude E4200, but it uses a ULV processor, while all the others user Standard Voltage I believe. Looking at these numbers, I can see why Lenovo is so proud of the X1, they created a durable laptop just one mm thicker than the thinnest Dell E series Latitude, but using a Standard Voltage CPU.

A Sony SA isn't a Thinkpad and its engineers made decisions for thinness the engineers at Yokohama won't touch with a 10 meter pole. I think the engineers behind Latitude and EliteBook won't do so either. Its not that the engineers don't know what to do, but that they know they are making a compromise their target market will scream blasphemy to.

If Lenovo wants to compete with the ultra thins, they have to sacrifice the Thinkpad brand (MUCH more than they already done) or put more effort into their IdeaPad offerings (The U260 sucked, you can do better than that Lenovo!)

 

Nando--you just gave Lenovo a succinct Roadmap for success on the X2. I'd buy that notebook in a heartbeat.

You reading this, Lenovo?

 

Well, there's just too many design elements that are so flawed in the current X1. I mean 13.3" screen on a 14" sized laptop? Look at the bezel on the X1. The gap on the bottom of the screen is huge! Dimensions are huge and the slanted sides don't help with dimensions or ports (rubber thingy). Those things would have never passed by me if I was the head engineer. Screen issue has been talked to death as well.

Point is that an X2 should be in the thought process soon, as come autumn, the X1 will be pretty far behind the pack.

 

the problem is the thinness, it wont be a enterprise class hardware with that compromise, I think that the thinness on the mbp and SA (both have the same thinness) is quite enough, more than that you need to compromise on something, the vaio Z2 is complete with custom hardware that people will scream murder!

 

I'm not following your line of thinking. Are you saying enterprise class laptops can't be thin?

What exactly defines an enterprise class notebook?

 

A laptop that corporations trust. The three major players are Lenovo Thinkpad, Dell Latitude, and HP EliteBook. I would say an enterprise class laptop would:
-be durable and reliable.
-have security features.
-have long support lifespans.
possibly also:
-have a good keyboard
-have a matte screen
-easy to service

I would expect most of the features to be met without problems, but the first is what prohibits business laptops from being thin. If you are restricted by the same materials and technologies, making a more durable product thinner and lighter than a less durable product is more or less impossible. Thinness also is bad with heat and heat kills hardware. Enterprise laptops can't be thin. I tried to illustrate that in my earlier post as well.

LenovoGringo, looking at the Hardware Maintenance Manual. It seems a lot of space is used up for the battery, so making the footprint smaller would probably kill battery life. The design does taper though, so making it less tapering might regain most of the space.

 

I take it you haven't personally tested the MacBook Air, Samsung Series 9 or ThinkPad X1.

 

"Feeling of durability" and "durability" aren't the same thing.

I don't think either the Samsung Series 9 or the MacBook Air passes mil spec tests. The Thinkpad X1 also has lower temperatures than the MacBook Air, despite using a standard voltage processor.

 

It's happened already: Runcore T50 SF2281-based mSATA (SATAIII) SSD
RunCore outs T50 6Gb/s mSATA SSD, SandForce speeds included -- Engadget

 

When did Enterprise = Mil-spec?

People are buying all of these machines and using them in the corporate setting. They'll also add the ASUS UX21, VAIO Z, new Macs, iPads, Android slates and others.

Everyone has a different notion of what is acceptable. Consumerization is adding new form factors and device characteristics. This will continue to morph.

 

the idea here is custom. when you buy HDD in an enterprise environment, you dont buy only 1, you buy 20+, how can you do that with laptop like the Z?

The ram is custom

The HDD is custom

The ODD is custom

and that may well be the trend when you put things smaller and smaller

everything is custom in that machine, thats what I was saying, you need some elbow room when you are dealing with machines that need to be back to work in 15 min.

 

You are still forgetting that most of those lack:
1. Serviceability. IT can't easily fix the laptop themselves, nor are parts required to fix them interchangeable with other laptops.
2. Long support lifespans. I'm pretty sure ASUS isn't releasing drivers/etc for the UX21 several years into the future. This can be remedied though, but it doesn't seem like anyone is trying.

I'm well aware what consumerization is doing. From design choices, it seems that the major business laptop companies also know. What I doubt though, is that consumerization will cause companies to not value serviceability, long support lifespans, and reliability. Not valuing durability, especially for laptops that are used on the go constantly, like what ultra-thins are supposed to be, is a stretch imho.

 

Do you think I don't know all of this? Do I sound like a n00b? Please

In some ways the serviceability issue is a good thing. It keep users from screwing things up. However, we have skilled techs in my company and they do a reasonable job with break/fix ops for the non technical workforce. For this reason I certainly prefer a design like that of the T420s over sealed case design.

As for the long support lifespans, that isn't always true. Getting driver updates from Lenovo for some of their models after they've changed over to the next wave of models can be an issue. I can cite numerous examples. It really gets to be a problem in year 2 or 3 for a machine and I see that all the time since it's the amortization schedule we have.

How all of this relates to the next version of the X1 remains to be seen.

 

My company is a Toshiba customer. They are very serviceable by anyone with some skill. Having opened my Sammie several times, I don't think there are any "major" machines that are not "enterprise."

And of course if you abuse a Thinkpad is the same as if you abuse a Sammie, Toshiba, HP or Dell...

 

Exactly my sentiment. I got an X220 with IPS at the same time as a Vaio Z with 1080p screen. Recently sold my X220, as the 1080p screen in the Vaio Z is AMAZING. Heck, I don't even use my X61s with SXGA+ mod that often any more. The Vaio Z really is all you need.

 

I hope if there were an X2, it could be like the design of X300

 

Beyond a certain point, thin is a marketing hype chest-beating thing.

"If I could only slide my notebook computer in that thin slot or under that low bar, the would would be mine for the taking!" : P

Think about it: When was the last time you discovered that your notebook computer was too thick?

...Too heavy, however is another thing.

 

Thin matters to those of us who use our computers in our profession and would like to carry them, along with a yellow pad leather folio and a few loose items in our thin, leather briefcases. In fact, it probably is a larger factor than weight, give or take a few ounces. Ultrathin is directed at the professional market. The X1 is a nice design and, for me, 13" is the perfect type display for my transportable desktop (my travel unit is my slate but there are times when I need to take my more powerful desktop along to do certain things at remote locations). So far, my Acer 3820TG has sufficed (it fits in the front pocket of my briefcase, inside its "Incase" sleeve) but space is at a premium, thinner is better and I would like a better display. The X1 is a decent first attempt. I would like higher resolution, a matt display and provision for an extermal GPU (for my work involving aireal images). However, if the price was lower, I would seriously consider picking one up. Maybe when it makes it to the outlet, which should not be too long considering that it does not seem to be setting the world on fire.

Bronsky

 

what happened to the quadcore model supposed to be coming out around now? that would certainly make the x1 interesting i suppose. cant think of any other ultraportable quadcore

 

A 13" computer is a nice size, but the X1 was designed by marketing people for marketing people, while the X220 is a more capable productive computer in almost every way except for screen-size, and to some including myself: keyboard.

Though, as far as maintainability, with an internal battery and non-serviceable parts the X1 fails as a business computer. Why copy Apple when Lenovo could have outdone them? Make a matte screen which makes sense when you are in an office with windows. Make the battery larger and removable. Get rid of the trapezoid Klingonese look and round the corners a little.

You cannot innovate by following: Me

 

I prefer the Edge KB over the standard thinkpad (herasey!!). I also will never own another notebook that does not have a backlit KB (I do a lot of work in less than optimal conditions). The thinklight is not as effective IMO and makes my eyes tired. As far as screen size, the difference between 12.5" and 13.3" is really significant to me. I would, however, prefer higher resolution (for cut and pasting) and matt finish.

Internal batteries are not a problem for me (although I must admit that it is nice to have a fully charged one in the travel bag). I agree that imitating a stealth bomber is not a great design.

Bronsky

 

Better comparison, yet : )

 

invention= creating something new
innovation= taking something that exists and making it better.

therefore innovation cannot exist without following

 

Hopefully, Lenovo knows that the X1 is a work in progress.

Bronsky

 

You make that up?

innovation
invention

Sounded pretty good.

 

I miss-typed; what I mean is I too, like the x120e (x1) keyboard better than the old one, because the touch is lighter.

On my aging T61P, with a newer keyboard, the keys rock/cant/tilt on top of the switches if I press on the corners of the keys.

 

the X2 should keep to the 18 months lifecycle schedules, otherwise it would not gather enough ROI. But i think Lenovo would upgrade the X1 a tad bit.

Also, enterprise class machines are defined by its:

-stability of service life
-ease of servicing and managing them
-defined lifecycle from purchase to decommissioning
-increased inter-operatibility of parts and accessories (also backward compatibility with old parts)
-greater control over softwares and hardware installation (i.e. like disabling certain hardware features)
-greater level of security measures (smart card sensors, computrace, etc)
-better aftersale and warranty support

 

The term innovation derives from the Latin word innovatus, which is the noun form of innovare "to renew or change," stemming from in-"into" + novus-"new". Although the term is broadly used, innovation generally refers to the creation of better or more effective products, processes, technologies, or ideas that affect markets, governments, and society. Innovation differs from invention or renovation in that innovation generally signifies a substantial change compared to entirely new or incremental changes.

from wiki

 

and therefore invented...

 

and thats why you cant have thinness like the Z21. Couldnt have worded it better

 

I hope they produce an update for the X301 instead..

 

Uh, the X1 is the update to the X301.

 

I agree, although keyboard, matte screen, and easy to service should be included as definite requirements an enterprise class laptop should have. In addition, a higher screen resolution would increase productiveness. I don't mind the change to 16:9 but I just wished that Lenovo had more options for higher resolutions on their laptops.

As for the argument of being thinner, it can only get thinner to an extent. I agree that my T410 could be thinner but not too thin that it makes it almost hard to hold. Apple's MBAs are nice in reducing weight and formfactor but it makes it awkward to hold and carry. I own an iPod Touch 2G and it's perfect in thinness with a case. When using my friend's latest gen iPod Touch, I was not a big fan of how thin it was; he didn't have a case either so it also made it hard to hold and use. Thinness is good, but only to a certain extent.

IMO, the perfect laptop for an business person and student on the go would be a 13" laptop with at least a 900p display, with the perfect balance between weight, form factor, and thinness. Other features would be the things that Pseudorandom posted.

 

Not a direct update but a laptop that infused some elements of the X30x and at the same time combining features from other market leading products.

 

It seems that the X1 has not been well received. Is there any history of Lenovo updating a model that is not selling well during the product cycle (like adding a higher res, matt display option) or will they wait until their next model refresh of the X1, which I assume will be in March or April, 2012, when Ivybridge starts to ship.

Afterall, that is the thrust of this thread. So, what are the odds? To be honest, I keep waiting to see an X1 in the outlet.

Bronsky

 

no major mid life changes. Major updates like screen, etc, usually are reserved for next machine models.

Matte LCD would not be in the X1 or X2....the Corning Glorilla glass is essential to the screen rigidity otherwise the LCD would be constantly cracking when you open the screen.

So Bronsky you are finally coming to the Thinkpads?

 

My office has a 2 year mandatory replacement policy for laptops. I like the x1 and would have seriously considered it with only a few improvements. I almost bought the x301 a couple of years ago. I am very dissapointed with Acer's replacement for my beloved 3820TG. It's a disaster. The new Z looks too fragile for me. I'm keeping a close watch on the new LG P330 but I will probably wait for Ivy bridge and give the X1(a) a look again. I have until next year to replace my current notebook (which works perfectly).

There must be some anti-glare coating that can be applied to G-glass to control the glare. That would be a big plus.

Bronsky

 

maybe the X220?

 

13" is an absolute minimum (and maximum ) for me.

Bronsky

Update: Looks like I wasn't that far off. The X1 is in the outlet for $983. http://outlet.lenovo.com/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/128r9e000b.html Nice price. With the small amount of interest that the unit seemed to be generating, I assumed that it would find its way to the outlet very soon. Now if Lenovo would just come up with a 20% off outlet coupon (I think they had one last year for back to school), I would be sorely tempted to pick one up.