X200T display

According to tabook (02/24/2010), there are:

• CCFL: 190nit, FFS, frameless screen
• LED: 200nit, IPS, frameless screen
• LED: 285nit, IPS, frameless screen
• Touch: 230nit, IPS,
• MultiTouch: 270nit, IPS,
• Outdoor: 400nit, IPS, 1,2% reflectivity, multible antireflective layers

All: 12,1 (308mm); WXGA (1280x800) TFT; 16:10 asp.r.; 500:1 cont.r.; 170° WideViewanti-reflective and anti-glare protective coatings;

1) What kind of display would you choose? - Why?
2) What are the advantages of Multi/Touch display?
3) What about handwriting, is it worst on MultiTouch display, or doesn't matter?
4) Which of them runs down battery more quickly?
5) Are touch models more faithful in colours?
6) Which of them is more resistant to scratchs and st. like that?
7) Would you get better display with X201T?

Thanks

 

1. definitely ignore the non-ips (i.e crap) screens (i.e the first one), the rest just depends - if you want multitouch, there's only one choice, if you want a super bright screen, there's also only one choice - i'd probably go for the outdoor one, because it's a lot less reflective, and i don't really need multitouch - i'll be satisfied with the wacom digitizer, and with the antireflective layers, it should provide the widest viewing angles.

2. without (multi)touch, you NEED to use the digitizer to, well, touch the screen. the difference between touch and multitouch is one finger vs mult-fingers (4 i think, but don't quote me on that) (might be 2). also, as far as i know (but, again, don't quote me on this) the system would disable the finger-touchscreen if it senses the digitizer nearby (i.e. if you're using the digitizer). this is awesome and necessary because this enables your hand to rest on the screen while writing, like how your hand would rest on paper when you're using a pen (how old school is that?)

3. shouldn't matter if you're using the digitizer, but if you're using the onscreen keyboard multitouch would definitely help. haven't tried handwriting on a multitouch display though, so can't comment on that

4. the led models should use less power than the ccfl, but i don't know, realistically, the power consumption differences between the other 5 choices (in general the brighter the screen the more power used - but then presumably you can simply lower the brightness)

5. shouldn't matter

6. should be more or less the same - they're all designed to work with a digitizer scratching all over it anyway (when you write or draw or whatever). that said the hardware maintenance manual lists two ccfl screens, two 200-nit screens and two 300-nit screens as "protection plate LCD", and the rest as "touch panel LCD or direct-bonding glass LCD". i'm sure if you dig hard enough you'll figure out what these mean. I'm guessing "protection plate LCD" means "frameless screen", and the other means, well, the non-frameless ones. so maybe the ones with protection plate is slightly better than those without. (that guess is purely based on the word "protection")

7. well...all i can say is the hmm doesn't have any x201t-only screens, so i'm guessing the answer is "NO"

p.s. hmm for x200t/x201t can be found here : http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-70830

 

To cassiohui:
Wow, that was comprehensive answer!
Thank you very much for your time. It was helpful.

 

oh its just coz i was in a relatively good mood

that said unless you found a brilliantly awesome discount for a x200t, or you're in a hurry for a new tablet, i'd recommend waiting for the x201t - all thing (clock speed, cache size, fsb, etc) equal* the core i5 gives you about 20% more performance while retaining more or less the same battery life, plus all the juicy new functions, such as turbo boost and a slightly better graphics chip. i reckon it's worth it.

* Core 2 Duo P8700 vs Core i5-540M, both 2.53GHz, 3MB L2 cache, FSB 1066MHz and so on. http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3705

 

When I read x201t (i7) review on laptopmag.com I was quite dissapointed with battery life, so I wanted to buy X200t. On the other side X201 (reviewed on notebookreview.com) with i5 has better endurance, so according to this and your link I assume, arrandable cpu (i5) are not glutton for electricity as I thought. I haven't noticed that.
Now it seems to me, the "last" question is, how to catch the best price.
Profuse thanks

 

no idea. i'm not in the states.

 

Non-IPS doesn't necessarily mean crap. There are many Non-IPS but yet Non-TN panels that offer very good image quality. FFS panels are on par, if not better, than IPS panels. In fact,

and from wikipedia:

There is a LONG thread discussing putting AFFS panels on X200 series laptops. Go here

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=366472

Also, it has been confirmed by members here that many of the X200t models which the tabook claimed to come with IPS panels in fact come with Samsung PVA panels. Not that these PVA panels are crap though, just that some people would go nuts immediately when they find that the display they are using is not IPS, even if they couldn't notice the difference wihtout checking up the model number.

 

I would just point out that most typical notebook usage like Office, Media and Internet, isn't very CPU intensive. The iCores certainly offer better performance, but it's only in the CPU intensive realms like media encoding or crunching databases where the better CPU will offer an advantage.

 

True, however given the fact that iCore is today's technology, I would always recommend iCore over Core 2 Duo, if nothing else than for future proofing.

 

KHTSE very interesting info on the screens ... would you know if any 12.1 inch FFS Hydis screen could be fitted onto an X201? Or are they connectors not compatible? is there a solution as has been done with the X200 series. Will there be an option to do that. I have eye problems with LED and I am trying to find a solution to make it work with the X201 series ... if technology allows

 

Screw that. When yesterday's technology provides better driver support, better battery life and is a proven model, and more likely to have available discounts.

The only time you'll bog down the current SU9400 is if you open a particularly cpu hoggin app, like play a 720p video with Outlook, two Browsers, OneNote, and Excel already up. That tends to slow things down a bit..

 

The X200 and X201 are very similar, but the X201 is going to use a LED BL screes. It won't be a straight swap like the X200 since the LEDs use difference parts. If you want the AFFS screen, I'd get the X200 as I think as I said most typical notebook usage isn't very CPU intensive. The iCore won't offer much of a performance or battery advantage. Plus swapping the screens will be more difficult and costly on the X201.

 

That's a matter of opinion. The iCore offers much better graphics performance in an integrated graphics solution. To me, the extra performance and "future proofing" is worth more than saving a couple hundred bucks on yesterday's technology.

 

Stop calling it iCore, making it sounds like an Apple product! It's Core i-something, the "i" follows the "Core", not the other way round.

 

Yet that graphical performance still sucks. It's like a 1.40cm tall grown man saying that he is taller than his 1.35cm friend, which is true but nothing to write home about.

The CPU, on the other hand, is much faster. If you use CPU intensive programs very often, then Core i5 or Core i7 is clearly the way to go. Just that the price of X201 series will be high at least for the next few months. If you are buying an X-series 4 months later or more, go for a X201. If you are buying one now? Unless you really need a lot of processing power (no, not gaming, the graphic card won't do it), X200 is a much better choice given how has become (with some combinations of Lenovo discount and coupons). It's not hard to find a below $800 X200 with 2.4Ghz Core 2 Duo and 9-cell battery these days (and much much lower if refurbished, anyone got some good stuff from Lenovo outlet with the 20% off coupon the past weekend?)
Oh, not to mention that X200 with CCFL backlit screen can be easily modded to use AFFS screen. No such luck of X201 goes all LED backlit.

BTW, many reviews shows X201 with 9-cell battery has about an hour (or slightly more) battery life when compared to X200. A few things to note here:

(1) Anandtech's article here
http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3705
shows that the new platform offers only marginal, if any, battery life improvement.

(2) Laptop Magazine tested the X201t (with 8-cell battery), and found that its battery life is 2 hour shorter compared to X200t.
http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/lenovo-thinkpad-x201-tablet.aspx

(3) The 9-cell battery for X201 has a capacity of 94WH, a 10% increase over the capacity of X200's 9-cell battery (85WH). The improvement in battery life could come solely from improved battery cells. Given there isn't much change in X201's case, and that the new battery looks virtually the same as the X200 battery, I wonder if the new 9-cell battery is also compatible with the X200. If yes, I may grab the new battery to get 10% improvement in battery life for my X200.

 

Show respect for your elders, son.

 

I am a little bit confused with AFFS/PVA/IPS screens. Could sb. summarize in few sentences which technology belongs to certain screen and what are the problems with some of them? Is there a way how to ensure you get the screen you want?
Thank you

 

I have the 400nt screen. It can be a bit overwhelming indoors. From what I hear, the 285 is more than enough outdoors. Moderator jonlumpkin has the 285nt screen. From what I hear, it has more than satisfied him.

 

KHTSE do you know here I can get a good AFFS screen? I would like the HYDIS one but the one neding in 120 ...which is a matte screen. I have no clue where to source it. Well I was hoping that the X201 series came with a CCFL for modification because I love a touchpad ... failing that I don't need the extra power, so an X200 would be fine (well an X200s actually ...here in Europe they have the same WXGA CCFL screen as the X200 so same mod is possible), but I need to know where to source the screen. And how difficult is it for a newbie like me to replace the screen ? Wish someone could buy the machine do the mod and I can buy it off them LOL

 

AFFS/PVA/IPS are all very good LCD panels, much much much better than TN panels typically used in 90+% of laptops. Currently, only Tablet models have the choice of non-TN panels. All other Thinkpads come with crappy TN-panels.

CCFL and LED refers to the backlight behind these panel, and they can be manufacturer in any combination (correct me if I am wrong), for example, you can have LED backlit IPS panel, or CCFL backlit IPS panel. LED backlight is newer technology and is supposed to be superior in terms of power usage, heat, size, and image quality (depends on the specific model, some people find CCFL backlit LCD display looks better).

The problem is, X200 that uses CCFL backlit screen has different cable than X200 that uses LED backlit screen. For the former, it is directly compatible with a few models of CCFL backlit AFFS screens. For the latter, no one has found a compatible AFFS screen for it yet.

The trend so far is that laptop manufacturers are moving to LED backlit screen in all the models, and Lenovo is one of them. Assuming that X201 with LED backlit screen uses the same display cable as its X200 counterpart, there is no compatible AFFS panel to replace the stock crappy TN panel with.

 

The 285nit LED frameless (LED S-PVA) works great for me. I tend to run it at 10/15 brightness indoors, and full brightness outdoors or when using it as a slate under harsh fluorescent lighting. The viewing angles, contrast, and overall quality are very good (far far better than the TN panel on the x200). The extra 115 nits could be useful in direct sunlight (mine gets a bit washed out, but is still usable).

That being said, if I were buying again today I think I would get the Enhanced Multi-Touch (EMT). It is nearly as bright (270 nits) and supports two finger capacitive touch (the one finger resistive that was available when I got mine had limited appeal). General consensus is also that the EMT panel is true IPS rather than S-PVA for even higher quality. The one thing that gives me pause on the EMT panel is the reports that it takes an extra 1.5-3 watts to power (reduces battery life by 20-40%); however, this has not been officially confirmed and is purely based on a handful of reviews of EMT equipped tablets.

 

i now have 400

 

Yes, join us.

Where the air is more crisp....

 

Well. My knowledge is that virtually no one in the US sell them. A friend of mine bought the panels for me from China (he hand carried them into the US, those Chinese sellers don't ship internationally). I was selling a few of them here the last few days, but they are all gone now, sorry.

 

can you use finger on the outdoor screen?

 

No. The 'sunlight' readable panel is pen only.

 

my bad - i didn't immediately relate ffs to affs

but i still think i'd go for the outdoor screen

 

So no more of the good panels ? Ouch ... Khtse do you have any particular Hydis model number for a matte IPS/AFFS? I can see if I can get in Europe somewhere. I mean the fact that they exist must mean one can buy them. Secondly how long does it take to convert them. Is it a simple task, one out click other one on and connect cable ? If not I will be hunting for a full option X200 with CCFL somewhere.

 

well the ips ones are still very very good~

 

What am I, Wikipedia? Google has your answers.

I did get a X200 with the coupon from the Outlet for $600, but I've not received my confirmation as of yet, which has me concerned. I'll have to call later today.

It looks like the Hydis screen is available on eBay in the $75-350 range depending quality, with the new ones starting at $150. Those are the glossy ones with the digitizer and writing surface attached. While I'd prefer matte, not enough to spend $100-150 to get one. Looks like I'll be buying a glossy one and removing the digitizer/touch surface, assuming my order went through of course.

 

the Core i or iCore with the integrated GPU wouldn't matter really all that much, especially given the fact that the variants of these CPU used in the X201/t would be a lower end model, which would bring small increments in performance increase then compared to the W500 -> W510 with the quad core cpu and HT technology.

Also, whether the integrated GPU is integrated into the CPU package or not does not really matter to the end users of the X201/s, since the CPU package is soldered on to the laptop. If intel does update cpu model with better integrated GPU it would not matter, since you can't change the CPU anyway.

Also, the integration of the GPU with the CPU is partly to do with the fact that Intel wants to save money for itself (by using less silicon) and also for the laptop manufacturers (more compact heatsink packaging, since you don't have to use heatpipes and copper heat sink on the separate controller/gpu).

If you feel that the X200 can't crunch through your large CAD model or your large database, then i guess one misses the point of owning the X series in the first place. This machine is mainly aimed at portability and not really for outright CPU/GPU power....

 

Zaz can you give me the link to a matte IPS AFFS screen on Ebay? Not sure what I am looking for. I Looked for HV121WX4-120 but does not seem to be on there... I have just mailed Derrick.NY from Ebay and waiting for a reply ... thanks

 

Is there a way how to avoid TN-panels?
How do I recognize them before buying X200T?
(e.g. X200T with the LCD LED 285nit display from outlet)

• CCFL: 190nit, FFS - low brightness
• LED: 200nit - low brightness
• LED: 285nit
• Touch: 230nit - lower battery life too?
• MultiTouch: 270nit, - IPS, but lower battery life
• Outdoor: 400nit, - pricey

 

read your own first post...all are ips apart from the first one, which is ffs

in other words, there are no tn panels

 

Sorry for the silly question, but when I read jonlumpkin's post...

...psref seemed to me unreliable, because according to it, there are no PVA pannels.

 

well ok but still, pva is not tn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD

 

The PSREF is wrong.

190 nit CCFL - FFS (although I have heard of some S-PVA panels)
200 nit LED - S-PVA
285 nit LED - S-PVA
230 nit Single Touch - S-PVA (poorly regarded)
270 nit Enhanced Multi-Touch - IPS (although Erik's seems to be S-PVA)
400 nit LED - unsure, but most likely S-PVA

The x200(s), x301, T400s, T500, et. al. all use TN panels.

Also, the 190 nit CCFL or 200 nit LED should be plenty bright for almost any indoor setting. I only take mine above 10/15 brightness when outdoors or using it as a slate under harsh fluorescent lights.

 

Are there any other screens apart from the famous Boe Hydis that could be fitted on the X200 or X201 ? And are there any other CCFL or LED but much better on the eyes than what Lenovo offers ?

Just one more thing: Are the LED panels on the new X201 and X201 s the same manufacturer as the T400 LED screens ?

 

mine's a pre-production model.   disregard my statistics.

 

Psh, he broke into Lenovo headquarters!

 

erik's all stealthy like that! ;-)

 

shh.....

 

I just received an x200 tablet with a multitouch screen. The viewing angle problems are so bad that I'm not sure it is useable as a tablet. Multi-t does work (two finger works in paint). Part numbers from original order:

13N7255 13N7271 FRU 12WXGA LED W/MULTI-TOUCH GLASS DIGIT YES
42T0567 0000000 12.1 INCH LCD DISPLAY:FLAT PANEL DISPLAY NO

I need to fool with it more to see what is up, but does anyone have advice?

Are the viewing angles that bad? Or could I have a bad screen?

Is there more than one version of the Multitouch screen, where I might have a poor one?

Should I send it to Lenovo and try to get a fix?

Any advice at all?