X220 display has: light bleeding, burn-in and low brightness

You are being quite unfair. ZaZ did not give you a lesson, simply commented on the subjectivity of the issue on hand. Both of us don't have the issues you are so concerned with, but it appears to me that you want to be overly negative and critical. And in my previous post I send you the link of a video that compares TN vs IPS of the X220 so that you can compare it yourself. And concerning the surface, the IPS is matte.

I believe you have gathered enough information to make a purchase decision and I don't think the community can help you any further.

 

I hope I did not offend ZaZ or you (that was not my intention) but he clearly came across who gave me a bit of a lecture. It was very carefully worded and I understood it.

I asked valid questions that everyone would ask before you decide to purchase the premium item (which we do not know at this point but may have defective units) or buy the regular.

Pintu, nobody really answered my questions I asked earlier. By the way, thanks for the video. As I said before I like this display but knowing myself it would drive me nuts if it has bad image retention. ;-)

You can try out yours by leaving on a page that has lets say red top logo and white areas the rest for between 10-30 minutes. Apparently that's how long it takes. Then switch on to your desktop.

 

1) my X220 has this phenomenon if forced.   for my use i wouldn't personally define it as a problem.
2) absolutely not.   i use my X220 for CAD/DCC work while mobile and am personally not affected by it.   the benefits far outweigh any negatives.

the IPS panel is well worth the price despite any shortcomings.

 

It starts at about 5 or 10 minutes on mine but it fades away after about a minute or so under those conditions. The longer the time the worse it gets. When browsing the web and going back to the desktop it is more pronounced and longer lasting because many of the graphical elements are in the same place. Sometimes it takes 20 to 30 minutes to completely fade. I think there are tricks you can do to speed the process up though I haven't tried them. Don't want to run a special screen refreshing program every time I close my browser.

 

I did not wish to lecture anyone, but my point was the foundation on which you based your claims on is flawed. That is not to discount others concerns, but I myself have never seen this and I consider myself to be a pretty regular user.

 

@ ZaZ
Thanks, comment is well taken.
The bottom is line that I know often things get exaggerated and especially on forums. As I said before and Mark@Lenovo can support my conclusion is that in some degree these panels exhibit this phenomenon. What I tried to determine is that how bad it is and how it would affect my work vs ordering a regular panel.

 

I think that's a fair concern. Back in the day any ThinkPad could be returned no questions asked. Unfortunately, people abused it and it was taken away. Now you are asked to pay a 15% restocking fee. The upside of that policy is that Lenovo doesn't have to deal with as many returns and can offer lower prices because of it. The downside is people with a legitimate claim have to be persistent or charming or both to get action on the matter. It's not really a right or wrong of doing things, but each way has its pros and cons.

What's the worst case? You buy a X220 and in your work the image retention is a problem for you. You could have it repaired. You could return it. You could sell it. You'd probably be out a some money on the latter options, but to me it's worth a $100 or so to at least try the best ultraportable on the market even if it doesn't work out.

 

I can only observe the ghosting phenomena when I focus on the screen in the night with lights switched off in my room. Also, the light bleeding issue is minor - I can't notice it unless I intentionally search for it.

I have to say that X220 IPS is not a good option for photoshop, but a superior solution for daily use like web browsing / documents editing etc.

 

@sniper_sung
Thanks for the reply. Why do you say that the IPS is not good for photoshop? Do you find the contrast a bit overboosted?

Have you had a chance to try the regular TN display in the X220? Is that better?

 

Because in a dark room if I set maximum brightness of the IPS screen, and run any screen diagnostic software to set fullscreen black, I see slightly more brightness from the bottom corners. I assume this might affect the color accuracy for professional people. However for me this isn't a problem - I can't notice it if I'm not in a dark room, and even if I am, these two corners only affect the Windows taskbar slightly, and wouldn't affect anything above.

I didn't try the regular screen of any X220. I only have a T420s beside me. The IPS screen of the X220 makes the screen of the T420s look so much inferior. (sharpness, view angle)

 

graphic pros don't work in dark rooms with their displays at 100% brightness.   what you're assuming here is a non-issue in reality.

 

Certainly it's at least a bit better for Photoshop than your typical screen?

 

My desktop monitor is a Dell U2410. That's why the IPS of X220 can't impress me until I compare it to the screen of T420s.

 

I just confirmed again that the ghosting problem is not easy to reproduce for me. I have to be inside a dark room, set max brightness and black wall paper, then leave a white window there for several minutes. When I minimise the white window, if I intentionally stare on the screen, I can see the trail. It also takes several minutes to disappear.

 

When comparing TN and IPS panels, people always mention only the advantage of IPS panels. As a matter of fact, TN panels do have much better response time compared to IPS panels. That's one of the disadvantage of IPS panels, and also why all LCD monitors marketed as "gaming" monitors use non-IPS panels.

So if you are one of those who are very picky about LCD response time, or if you are used to gaming on TN panels, you would notice the slower response time on an IPS panel. That being said, I haven't seen any IPS screen which response time was slow enough to bother me in the last few years. It's just that, if you look for problem, you will find it.

And honestly, I'm not sure if there is anything Lenovo can do about the quality of these screens. There are only a handful of LCD manufacturers that make IPS display, and even fewer that make screen of this size. There are simply no alternatives. Unless Lenovo can sell Thinkpad like iPhone/iPad/iPod in terms of volume, Lenovo just isn't in the position to custom order a screen to be made to its specification.

And as someone mentioned before, the reason why Lenovo is finally able to put an IPS display on the X220 probably has to do with the success of the iPad (both made by LG, same vertical pixel number and length means they can be cut form the same panel). Even though people praise Apple all the time for its tight quality control, there are tons of complaints about backlight bleeding with the iPad 2's screen as well.

The situation should improve rapidly in the next few years though. As consumer tablets become more popular, the demand for medium-sized IPS (and high pixel density!) will sky rocket, which also means that manufacturers will find medium-sized IPS economically feasible to make. That means more choices, and more competition in quality...

 

My only question is that since LG makes IPS displays for other computer manufacturers as well, why only the X220 IPS display exhibit this severe ghosting? I mean I have never seen another IPS screen that had such ghosting especially not in 2011. I start to think that maybe something is wrong in the display driver and this triggers the image retention while the panels are just fine. The problem is that Lenovo does not seem to investigate this issue. (I am saying this based following the thread on the Lenovo forum.) What is really sad is that they do not even bother to respond to those who ask them.

 

^^^ LG just does not walk into the warehouse and bring out a bunch of IPS panels for Lenovo. Not all orders are the same. Not all IPS panels are the same. Also, IPS is not the only choice for display panels, given the various usage/budget considerations.

You can get a "Sandy Bridge" CPU for $65 (G620) or $300 (i7-2600K). Similarly, you can get a "Radeon 6000" graphics card for $50 (6450) or $500 (6970).

Given the usually unimpressive display offerings by Lenovo for the ThinkPads (except, perhaps, the FHD on T/W510 and T/W520), the IPS upgrade option for the X220 is greeted with enthusiasm. However, it should not be compared against the desktop IPS panels -- unless you insist on causing frustration for yourself.

 

My X220 is arriving next week, I'll see if I'll get any of these problems.

I'm not particular concern by Lenovo's "low quality" (so people here claim, I haven't seen it myself and I doubt that) IPS offering. After all there are really no alternatives out there for Lenovo to pick, at least for now. What's more concerning is Lenovo's inability to source relatively high quality TN LCD screens. If you think the IPS is not worth the insignificant $50 upgrade, you can just choose the default TN option and forget about this upgrade. It's not like you can pay $50 or even $250 to get an IPS on other laptops anyway. But the problem, of course, is that Lenovo's TN offerings are notoriously bad across the board, except perhaps the FHD panels available only on a limited number of Thinkpad models.

Anyway, once I get my X220, I will try to compare the IPS screen against the AFFS screen on my X200 and the IPS screen on my iPad 2.

 

This.

Compared against X200 AFFS: maybe. Compared against iPad 2 IPS: hmm.

 

I don't see iPad's IPS screen being particular good. It's spectacular on mobile device simply because IPS screen of this size was a rare find before the introduction of iPad. But it's not really outstanding compared to desktop IPS.

Judging from reviews, the numbers ( measured contrast ratio, color range, etc.) of X220's screen and iPad 2's screen are similar, except that the iPad is brighter on maximum settings (somehow the IPS screen specification on Lenovo's tabook says that the contrast ratio is only 500:1, but they are measured around 800:1~850:1 in reviews, on par with iPad's). Given that they are both manufactured by LG, same size (on one edge), and... both have the same "backlight bleed" problem, I won't be surprised to find that they are very similar.

 

People complained for years about the lack of good screens on ThinkPads, going so far as to mod their ThinkPads, and now that Lenovo has offered one, they're not good enough? I don't really expect my $50 upgrade to compare to a desktop IPS LCD. At $50, it seems like a no brainer to me. It's still better than almost all other notebook LCDs. I've been very happy with mine.

 

I'm happy with $50 IPS upgrade, and in fact I have been very excited about it. If you've read my posts, I'm the one defending it.

But the fact remain that IPS is only available on X220 and X220t, and Lenovo's non-IPS screens are really below average. As you said, the IPS is a no brainer on the X220. It is a no brainer even for people who don't care that much about screen quality because the alternative display option is just too bad. If say, the default TN panel was a MacBook pro quality TN panel, many people wouldn't mind sticking to the TN and save $50.

 

Well said. I always value a balanced view. (It's not about Mac vs. ThinkPad. It's about your accurate perception of the situation and the way you put it.)

 

Question:
Can somebody tell me whether it is possible to cause image persistence on an IPS panel by using a faulty display driver or bios?

 

Like wrong voltage supplied to the display? I dont' think so, it would probably cause a lot more serious problem than that, like, simply killing the monitor.

 

Faulty driver? I suppose it's possible... sorta.

That's not's what happening here. I'd be willing to bet a brand new X220 on it.

(To clarify: it's possible that a faulty driver could, for example, fail to clear some buffer somewhere resulting stale image data being displayed. It wouldn't look like the "ghosting" people are reporting though.)

 

ThinkRob, the reason why I asked that question is because we know that there are multiple display drivers out there and we know that the bios of the X220 had some issues.

What I am trying to establish is that whether it is possible to trigger with drivers and/or bios this behavior or this is clearly hardware/parts related issue.

 

both of these have been established already.

as i've said before, the BIOS contains no changes to the display.   you can learn how to disassemble the BIOSes yourself and prove your own hypothesis incorrect.   as was also said, this is in the hardware.   drivers do not control displays to this finite of a level.

now that this has been established, can we let the topic go for a bit and concentrate on using our computers rather than complaining about them?   please?

 

erik,
You read what you want to see but not what others asked. Please ignore my posts in the future. I will wait for somebody who will actually answer my questions.

1) I do not care whether the bios include changes or not. It is possible that the bios is wrong from the very beginning. We do not know this and you cannot prove it otherwise that the bios is correct.
2) I asked whether this ghosting effect can be created by bad drivers and/or bios

Obviously you do not know the answer so ignore my posts.
Thank you

 

I already posted this question to another thread, but I think this topic is more appropriate and relevant.

I'm having a high level of light bleeding and image persistence in the two x220t's I own, and have experienced the exact same poor quality screens in two additional tablets which I have routine access to.

I called Lenovo and spoke to a representative, and then supposedly to an "engineer". I like these Thinkpads, so, instead of simply returning them, I asked if they would replace my screens with properly working ones. I was told repeatedly that even though my return policy was running up soon, I needed to wait until they are able to analyze the problem so that they could then help me. I was assured that there would be no problem with waiting.

So I did as Lenovo instructed me. I waited for a solution. Now I am no longer able to get a refund. To make things worse, there was no solution, as Lenovo officially stated that they consider such ("serious"?) IPS problems I'm having to be "normal". I was told by a representative not to bother returning my screen for repair since they will just put another screen on it with the same level of "ghosting".


Has anyone here received an x220(t) laptop with the outdoor display yet?

According to Lenovo's order page, this display doesn't support multi-touch. I am interested in hearing how the screens on those laptops perform and if image persistence is common.

I use my x220t's professionally. Multi-touch is an unnecessary "frill" I disabled as soon as I received the laptops. If Lenovo would help me, I would definitely be willing to have them replace my multi-touch display with the outdoor one if the trouble with light bleeding and frequent image persistence (that I am experiencing right now) would be solved.

Thanks!

 

Is this an IPS display? Can you look up the specs and post it here? If it has 300nit then IPS and most likely exhibit some degree of ghosting.

 

Have you finally ordered and/or seen an X220 IPS screen in real life? Why does a bright IPS display automatically lead to ghosting?

 

My neighbour just ordered one today, I am going to wait and see how his display works and order mine.

A bright IPS display does not automatically lead to ghosting! However, a fairly large number of the Lenovo X220 IPS display exhibit that. So far everyone I know (personally) said that some ghosting is apparent. On the other hand quite few people on this forum and other forums claim their display is just fine.

 

I have used tons of IPS, VA monitors and X220 is the first screen have short term burn in, ghosting problem.

Easily reproducible (no.. it exists every single moment)

I am fine with it but most people will not satisfy this flaw.

 

the BIOS only sets display resolution via specific microcode.   the controller on the display itself is responsible for voltages.   you're putting blame on the wrong item here.

no, neither drivers nor BIOS are responsible for the display at that level.

 

Thank you Erik, now you answered my question. Basically the ghosting cannot be created by driver failure of bios. In this case either the display or its controller is at fault. That's not good as this really depends on LG and not Lenovo.

 

Well, a BenQ FP241W I have at work (MVA panel) has over the years developed a semi-permanent burn-in, i.e., one that does not disappear when the monitor is off overnight. In comparison, the faint image persistence of X220 is negligible.

And you are basing this opinion on what exactly? Have you done some market research or something? My guess is that most people won't even notice, and most of those who will won't be bothered by it. I certainly fall in the latter group, and I care a lot more about the display quality than most people I know.

 

Thanks for replying. I looked it up but I'm not sure since I don't see specific details. What Lenovo's website states is that it's Infinity Glass and an Outdoor display.

Has anyone here seen a review? Or does some here personally own an x220 with this outdoor display?

 

I wonder if it's not worth getting an IPS display on the x220.
Should one pass on the IPS display on the X220?
What is the visual quality of the non-IPS displays?

 

I'm interesting to see these question answered too. I'll be fine if the issues are temporary, but definitely can't bear it for few years. Also I'm afraid those problems will get worse in long term.
I think I'm not too picky about screen quality as I'm fine with the screen on my R61, so normal screen is just as good as that then it will do it for me. Plus, the advantage of having non-IPS screen is privacy People can really see what are you up to unless they look straight at the screen

 

The average x220 buyer doesn't even know what ghosting is. Vast majority will be completely satisfied. You should have said, "I'm fine with it, but a small minority may not be." Most people I talk to who have bought the x220 with IPS think it is unreal compared to their previous screens. I'm sure that will be the general consensus among the majority.

You have to remember that this forum isn't filled with the average consumer. A lot of people here are far above the average user in experience and knowledge. So minor flaws are amplified 10 fold. You get most people coming into threads saying, "Man I would've never noticed xxxx problem if it weren't for this thread."

 

Also, I'm noting that, at least on my machine, the issue is dissipating slowly. As in, I'm seeing the ghosting less and less. I wonder if it because I'm just getting used to it?

 

I definitely agree with you on this. Casual laptop users tend to be less picky about minute details than professional users are.

For the job I do daily, I need to analyze and work on the almost pixel by pixel level. So having such prominent amount of image persistence is completely horrible and less productive for me. I see the "ghosted" lines and shapes constantly, and really just want Lenovo to acknowledge that their premium screens are not living up to the standards of some of their professional users. I would like Lenovo to honor my warranty and place a "non-ghosting" screen replacement on my x220t's.

So far they refuse to help me, despite me having a 3 year warranty on each x220t. I don't understand their hesitance and lack of concern.

 

Got my X220 today, and I can definitely confirm that all these "issues" mentioned are overblown. I'm sure that some units have some real issues and some unfortunate users had received them, I'm not discounting that. What I mean is that the IPS on the X220 isn't some "low quality IPS display" someone has suggested. There may be quality control problem, but at least the panel that I have received is of top notch quality.

For comparison, I have a AFFS-modded X200, and an iPad 2.

Brightness: The X220 display is significant brigther than the AFFS panel on my X200, and seems slightly brighter or at least on par with the brightness of the iPad 2 (at max brightness, auto-brightness off).

Light Bleed: No noticeable light bleed during normal use. In a dark room with a black background loaded up, I can notice some minor light bleed at the bottom of the screen. I said minor, because it isn't bleeding more heavily than other LCDs that I have experience with. In fact, my iPad 2 bleeds a lot more light than my X220 screen.

Burn-in: Didn't notice any. I will go and read some threads here to see how people "reproduce" the burn-in. But since I didn't notice it, that basically means that it doesn't matter for normal use.

I have only played with it for around 5-6 hours. Having been using SSD on all my computers for the last 2 years, I can't bear the slowness of spinning harddrives... so I don't want to touch my X220 until my new SSD arrive tomorrow. When I have time later this weekend or next, I will do a detailed comparison between the three screens, and will try to take some pictures. I have a Datacolor Spyder 3 Pro that I use to calibrate the screen. While one cannot calibrate iPad 2's screen, Datacolor has a photo viewing app that allows the Spyder 3 to be used to calibrate the screen within that app, that will be pretty handy for this comparison I suppose.

By the way, the shorter side of the X220 screen has the same length as iPad 2's, and the pixel count is the same too (768), which means that they both have the same pixel density.

 

Here is something interesting. LG announced the P220 ultraportable laptop. ( Here is the article)

The intersting part is that it uses a 12.5-inch IPS display. I assume this is the same display the X220 has since we know LG makes the 12.5 for Lenovo. It will be interesting to see whether the LG P220 with the same display has image ghosting.

 

Got my X220 from UPS, yesterday. I have to agree that I feel that the IPS issues are overblown. I see some lightbleed in lower right corner on black screen but it is unnoticeable to me during use or when watching a movie. This screen is friggin' beautiful.

 

Can you test the image ghosting please and let us know the results.

Thanks

 

After browsing on Internet for over an hour, I rebooted and could see faint horizontal line where chrome's address bar is separated from the rendered web page. Doesn't really concern me since the effect fades out and it is not permanent.

 

Another positive experience here. I browse and work in a terminal for fairly lengthy time periods and I'm not seeing any artifacts being left behind. Not really interested in any scientific tests since nothing shows up in daily use.

 

Got my X220.

-Light bleeding
-Low brightness (unless using the 12-15)
-NO burn-in or ghosting (yet?)