X220: Replacing thermal paste, anyone have any noticeable differences?

So I just received my X220 w/ i7 last night and tried playing some games, for about 10 minutes or so, afterwords I checked my temps and they had reached a blistering 96 degrees! After some searching it seems to be normal for the X220 performing at max... So i was thinking of replacing the thermal paste, was wondering if anyone had any noticeable differences when they did theirs?

 

No, it didn't help at all. My temps still go to 95+c on full maximum load. The full disassembly is a total pita, and not worth the trouble. I used Shin-Etsu G751.

I'm sad to report that these temps are normal for this laptop. These sandybridge chips are obviously pushing the heatsink and fan design to its max.

I find that when you get to about 95c, the laptop will throttle back to 2.7ghz, which is its non-turbo speed. The laptop will go to the turbo speed, as long as you're not at 95c.

 

See that note above? It's right on. Putting thermal paste on a machine is something to be done by a specialist, not by readers of a forum.

Renee

 

I've reapplied thermal paste on many laptops and improved their temps, just checking to see if this one is worth my time

 

I have the i5-2520m, my results are:

stock thermal paste: temps 88c + with throttling (15x multi)

with thermal paste: temps 81c with minimal throttling 29x multi (30 multi max = 84c but it kicks me down)

also, this was not on most updated bios, sorry i forgot to update bios before doing this experiment.

 

I guess I'll be re-applying thermal paste myself on mine when I receive it.

Mind sharing where you got the disassembly guide? THanks

 

The X220 Hardware Maintenance Manual can be found here:
Hardware Maintenance Manual - ThinkPad X220 Tablet and X220i Tablet

 

Thanks, I think you probably meant the non-tablet version? Hardware Maintenance Manual - ThinkPad X220 and X220i

After going through the manual, I've been kinda scared because going through so many disassembly steps I might break it. Is it possible to call for Onsite support and ask a technician to disassemble it for me?

 

I wouldn't count on that -- they're of course going to ask why, and you're also going to need to put it back together again once you're done.

IMO, it's not worth it. I replaced mine with AS5 and have noticed no difference. If you like taking things apart though and have the time, go for it!

 

err... played it by ear. one thing you have to watch out for is that the motherboard cannot be removed without undoing the screws that the vga connector screws into.

I took a video with my kodak zi8, i may post it when i clean it up abit.

 

disassembly guide:

whenever i remove screws, i use scotch tape to hold them in place and then mark where each screw came from by taping the screw to the laptop. (works quite well)


1. remove battery
1.5: tricky part: remove the screws beside the vga port, I managed to do this using only a pair of tweezers, although if you have another tool it could work. alternatively you should probably try to do this first, and if you can't just give up.
2. remove ram and hard drive
3. remove keyboard screws, remove keyboard by sliding towards screen and lifting from the middle click button.
4. remove the connector above touchpad; actually, remove all the connections.
5. undo rest of screws with markings (rectangle with four dots); lift pry touchpad from the sides, and then slide away from the screen (try not to pry the wristwrest off, otherwise you might not get a perfect seal when you reassemble.
6. remove any wifi card, disconnect cables and remove from the guides (lift up)
7. remove the remainder one screw that is unmarked on the bottom of the case, and the screws holding holding the wire guide piece of plastic down. following that start prying from the right side first, there should be accesible latches where the hard drive used to be, and also where the battery is. when you have loosened it to the left side of the laptop, slide off.
8. tricky part: remove the screws beside the vga port, I managed to do this using only a pair of tweezers, although if you have another tool it could work. alternatively you should probably try to do this first, and if you can't just give up.
remove any remainder screws and make note of where they go; i used scotch tape to tape around the screw, and then attach to the correct hole, marking on the tape with an arrow pointing towards the hole
8. remove screws holding motherboard in place, make note of where they go.
9. remove the metal holder keeping the charging port in place (easier than disconnecting)
10. lift mainboard from left side, and when you have gotten the left ports free from the chasis, slide left to remove motherboard.
11. voila! remove cpu screws one turn at a time, following the numbers 1,2,3,4 repeat ect until it is free.
12. clean cpu with arctic clean or rubbing alchohol (99%)
13. place two dabs of thermal paste, divide the cpu into two halves, and put halfgrain thermal paste in the middle of each half.
14. remount and assemble. (if you want, take some brasso and polish the copper on the heatpipe, it looks better)

overall this was a very worth while process. not for the faint of heart. I personally removed my screen while disassembling, but i don't think this is required. maybe someone can try without removing the screen.

feedback strongly encouraged. i like to read what you guys think

 

it might be just as easy to watch the official service videos from lenovo:

http://www.lenovoservicetraining.com/ion/X220/index.html

with that said, replacing TIM (thermal interface material) is pointless on these systems.   the factory compound used is already very good and intended to last the life of the system (up to 5 years in the event of a full warranty).   unless you're disassembling for other reasons there's no point in going out of your way to chase this down.   more variance can be found in ambient temperature than what can be found in changing the TIM.

 

I would disagree, there is no way that ambient temperatures can make that much of a difference in my case. I live in Vancouver, and the temperatures are fairly mild and remain the same throughout the day. The fact that I was able to maintain 80 degrees with minimal throttling vs heavy throttling and still hitting 88 degrees is a significant difference.

I have seen the thermal paste application, and it is simply horrendous. Anyone who assembles their own computer knows that there is a difference even when you "pre-spread" vs "dot in the middle" technique in TIM applications, and it seems that Lenovo is using the quickest method which is using a pre-applied thermal pad (dry).

I don't have the link off hand where someone experimented with different TIM application techniques using an acrylic board to see the distribution, but I assure you that replacing the TIM on this laptop does indeed make a difference.

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyXLu1Ms-q4
This is similar to what I learned, I haven't found the exact page.

 

having worked on well north of 300 ThinkPads over the last 18 years, i respectfully disagree.   even when slopped on, the factory TIM works very well.

i've tested this on my personal X220 using X23-7783D and three different methods of application.   the difference was +/- 2°C for all tests and miniscule enough to be caused by fluctuation in ambient temp.   if you think 2°C matters at full load then i'd have to ask why.

in short, it's not worth it.

 

Hmm, I may have gotten a dud then, but if anyone else does replace their thermal paste, could you:

1. update to latest bios
2. run prime95-max heat
3. record the temperatures (how it climbs, of course initially it will be on turbo, what temperature it starts to throttle, and finally the stable equilibrium temperature reached and throttled clock speed)
4. replace TIM, note mounting/application technique and post results

I used MX-2, IMO, it is the best value/performance TIM out there and is suppose to last 10 years so no need to worry about reapplying. It is not as viscous as AS5, which makes it easier to spread with less pressure (as laptop heatsinks are).

Also, note for anyone who does replace their TIM. It is most economical to do a rough cleaning with 99% isopropyl, and then clean in detail with arctic clean. I used to think arctic clean was snake oil, but after thorough isopropyl cleaning (clean cloth) arctic clean still comes out dirty (it is still removing TIM). I bought mine for $5 and it has lasted many many uses, well worth it if you are looking for the best performance. After all, it is ALOT of trouble to disassemble the x220, you might as well do it right.

 

Maybe not in your case, but on a hot day here it makes a HUGE difference. My x220 goes from not even feeling like it was on to hot. I'd say ambient temps have a very big factor on core temp. On normal 70 or 80 degree days my x220 is definitely very cool.... which is nice.

 

You're so full of it, and your posts as of late are full of it. Computers are like any other discipline, and I'll tell you from experience that an experienced self-taught computer "expert" can often know more than the so-called "specialists" out there. Computer knowlege or any knowlege is directly proportional to the time you're willing to put into it.
I hate to say it and have never said this to a member before, but please, do the NBR forums a favor and just stop posting. I don't know what's been with you lately, but your posts lately have just reaked of a fundamental lack of basic computer knowlege, and spouting off a bunch of stuff you think you know, and quite frankly, have been very arrogant.

 

+1

...and in addition to that, it seems like the most arrogant of the 'specialists' are the ones that really dont know much of anything.

 

Will applying better thermal paste (such as arctic silver) void the warranty ?

 

if done incorrectly and CPU-related issues arise from it then service can deny coverage at their discretion.

however, TIM has been replaced in the field before by authorized technicians using commercially-available products.   the lack of original paste isn't an automatic warranty-voiding scenario.

like anything, be careful and follow instructions.   this stuff certainly isn't brain surgery.

 

I was under the impression that opening a laptop voids the warranty

Lenovo allows self repairs and upgrades like adding memory ect ?

 

For some parts yes, I believe they label them CRUs (customer replaceable unit) or something similar.

 

I believe you are taking this out of context. What I meant was that ambient temperatures were not a major factor in the reduction of temperatures I experienced.

 

Try using IntelBurnTest, or any other stress tester based on Linpack.

I'm almost 100% certain that the heatsink and fan assembly are rated to almost exactly 35watts.

Like you, when I first replaced my thermal material, I thought I saw about a 5c reduction in my temps. But after a few more days and weeks worth of testing, I realized that there was no difference.

 

You meant where "on a machine"? On the lid? On the palmrest?

Not all forum participants are technically ignorant (in fact, sometimes I find that they know too much for their own good ) and it doesn't take a "specialist" to fix/upgrade/build computers these days.

 

"Not all forum participants are technically ignorant (in fact, sometimes I find that they know too much for their own good ) and it doesn't take a "specialist" to fix/upgrade/build computers these days."

I notice several things. Not one of the claims got to specifics. They were just generalizations.

I have been a professional operating system developer since the seventies through the nineties for what was the worlds second largest computer company.

I'll keep on making rash claims that are fully justified and fully supported. I think putting a coolant on a CPU chip is skilled worked. There may be those who get away with it. It's a precaution. I've built all my cpu's since they were at 35 MHZ. You will probably get away with it, but what is recommended here is far too little in the way of preparing the reader and in instructing the reader.

What's the matter are you afraid of considering something and actually thinking about it? At DEC engineers we were known for our arrogance.

Renee

 

Putting thermal paste on a CPU and getting decent temperatures is a very simple procedure that majority of people (even unskilled and computer illiterate can replicate if shown once) as long as they are careful, have the correct tools and follow instructions. Just search Youtube and you will find several good videos for applying thermal paste.

The technical skill comes with research, testing, and experience, in order to minimize your temperatures, there are specific methods of application that are better and controlling the amount of thermal paste make more difference than the actual brand of thermal paste used.

 

I never said you don't know what you're doing, I'm just saying that it isn't very difficult to do but difficult to master. There isn't much to go wrong if you follow instructions. If I'm mistaken, then please enlighten me.

 

Sick brag, bro.

And yes, we engineers may be arrogant, but we don't have to stuck up about it.

Lastly, instead of playing the arrogance card, you could contribute a little bit to the discussion on providing tips and such on how to do a proper thermal paste swap. Pointers, anecdotes, guides, links, etc.

At the end of the day, we're all just enthusiasts that know a thing or two about computers through years of picking stuff up, breaking it, and fixing it.

For the OP, you can check my sig for a brief TP rundown I did on my uMBP. Just something to add to your resources.

 

I'll also add this, a guide w/ lots of photos for an older Lenovo system, a T61. I used this guide when I redid the TP on my own T61, and it helped a lot:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo-ibm/484577-thinkpad-t61-thermal-paste-guide.html

 

"At the end of the day, we're all just enthusiasts that know a thing or two about computers through years of picking stuff up, breaking it, and fixing it."

While your busy educating me, I'm a sister. And you're wrong, I was an engineer for the second largest computer company in the world for 20 years.

I didn't come up breaking and fixing stuff.

Renee

 

Glad you said it since I was just about to.

And frankly, replacing thermal paste isn't some giant task as long as you are smart about it. I think Renee is just trying to feel special. I've done it on three computers and no, I have never built a single computer in my life. Pretty much every technical/hardware problem I have with my computer is solved by reading forums. Never had an issue. Moral of the story, you don't need to be an engineer or a technician to replace thermal paste. Just don't be stupid.

 

We get it you're awesome. But I ran that company for 20 years... so technically I'm a little bit more awesome.

 

No. If you ran ran it, you were a manager and there's nothing awesome about you. I also doubt that your namr is Ken Olsen who did run the company.

Renee

 

bickering over who is more intelligent in a thermal paste thread is absolutely laughable.   impress people with your knowledge, not your CV.

get the conversation back on track or enjoy a vacation from the forum.   all of you.

 

Back to the main topic: temp differences are going to vary with model and mfg. In the case of my MacBooks, I saw a 5-10 degree difference in various applications. The MBPs have been notorious for having poor thermal paste applications from the factory. There's a thread on the NBR Apple forums on the new 2011 MBPs and needing thermal paste swaps.

In the case of Lenovo, maybe they do a good (better) job at applying thermal paste.

Also, OP, have you tried undervolting? That brought my max temps on my T61 (tested with IntelBurnTest) down from 90 C at full load to around 80 C at full. It may help a bit on the X220, but I don't know if RMClock is compatible with the i5/i7 series. Can anyone else confirm this?

 

Unfortunately, Intel changed things with the Core series CPUs and the undervolting programs don't work. In addition, RMClock development stopped over 3 years ago.

We are stuck with a situation where the cooling system is designed to just about handle the 35W with no headroom, knowing that once a CPU core reaches 95C then it will reduce speed. In fact, if you believe HWiNFO's CPU power, the throtting arrives before the CPU power reaches 35W (at least that's the situation on my T420s). Because of the vagueness of the operating conditions relating to TurboBoost, Intel and notebook manufacturers don't have any obligation to deliver the maximum TurboBoost speed for more than a few milliseconds.

John

 

That's an interesting argument John, but I'm not sure that's quite the case. I think it's more of the computer makers having to make sacrifices to be able to fit a complete computer system into such a small case. Compromises have to be made somewhere, unfortunately. Many seem to just design a cooling system that lets them barely squeak by and not much else.

 

The old Intel P series CPUs used to be a good compromise between power and performance being 25W parts for a small price premium. Now it's either standard 35W or pay a big premium for the lower power hardware. And I suspect that manufacturers are opting to reduce costs by using the standard CPUs. We customers benefit by getting the best performance for the price within the constraints of our package.

The i5-2520M in my T420s will run continuously at 3GHz at a temperature in the 80s C if there is one CPU-intensive thread. However, a second CPU-intensive thread will trigger throttling of core 1 (which runs about 4C hotter than core 0). The 95C that triggers throttling is higher than I'm used to seeing with previous CPUs although the external temperatures are not exceptionally hot. which brings us back to the original question: Will changing the thermal paste drop the temperatures? Perhaps I should find out for myself.

John

 

The P series was more of a marketing ploy than anything. Yes, it probably was better binned and ran at slightly less voltage but reviews showed that was more to do with lower clock speed than anything else. If you haven't replaced your thermal compound in more than a year (and cleaned the heatsink fins first), changing pastes will probably help since the old paste tends to get displaced to the sides and contact between the heatsink and die lessens.

 

It was a joke, have a brew and relax a little.

Actually nevermind.

 

A bit too lazy to quote from the previous page, but the new chips have variable voltage, they turn down voltage at low load and turn it up to maintain reliability. It's completely irrelevant to compare to older chips which did not have this capability, as those were a compromise, and this is the best of all worlds. You just have to see throttling as getting the most out of the cooling setup, instead of losing performance.

 

This is a link to an 80-way heatsink compound test:
80-way Thermal Interface Material Performance Test | Thermal Interface Material,Thermal Paste,Heatsink Compound,80-Way Thermal Interface Material Best Thermal Paste Heatsink Compound Cooling Performance Comparison Benchmark Tests

It brings to mind a quote from James Burke, "What a bore that must have been."

I would be curious about the new diamond mixes, but then again, I would be hesitant to tear apart a machine under warranty, and someone else's risk.

This may seem cross, but if you let the machines burn up and send them back for repair, next time they might put an little larger fan in or be more careful making bios fan tables.

[Apple, may have underestimated the i7 dual thermal issues (as well?) in the new Mini, which almost breathes through a credit-card sized slot.]