X230t first impressions (it's not good) -- cross post

I'm from your sister site, tabletpcreview.com. I got my X230t today and had major build quality issues with it, as well as a run-in with censorship on the Lenovo community site. I ended up initiating a return.

I can't say whether these build quality issues exist for the non-tablet version, but you might want to take a look: "X230t first impressions? Fail. Build quality issues."

I'd be particularly interested in knowing the following: does the non-tablet 6-cell battery stick out of the bottom the way it does in the tablet version?

 

So is it better to buy a Mac since Lenovo has become garbage?

We should boycott all Lenovo products.

 

This. I hate this. With a passion.



At least on the standard 220 the 6-Cell still sticks out a little, but it's nowhere near as bad as this monstrosity.

 

most of the problems you have are already present on the X220t (other than the keyboard). So it is somewhat old news for people whom have a X220t.

 

Don't all X230 tablets have the 3 cell standard? You have to buy the 6 cell now..

 

Honestly, I am also disappointed with this release (x230 in general)--expected a evolutionary change--it seems they stuck with tried and tested. The only thing going for it is its weight, and powerhouse specs. Else it is a brick by today's standards.

 

What's a "menu" key?

Btw. The battery. Mother of god. What IS that thing?

 

I'd recommend getting the 3-cell for everyone. Seriously. Only buy the 6-cell if you find yourself NEEDING the extra unplugged time.

That said, battery life is pretty awesome with the 6-cell so far.

 

No, I've used the regular X230 and it does not have that odd looking hollow area. However, the reasoning I believe (though I haven't used an X220T or X230T yet) is to offer better grip for field workers that use this while standing. I can't really say whether it's good/bad without having used. I had an X61t and it was kind of hard to hold slate style, slippery. Field workers such as those on oil rigs or rigging phone lines don't care how their laptop looks, just that it's functional, look at ToughBooks and you'll see that. Ugly, but tough and very usable.

I read your post on Tablet PC, the uneven feet and wobbly front right side is certainly unforgivable, I'm sure that's not supposed to be the case and you got a bum unit, but still you would expect better. The flaking off insert sticker is something I once had happen before too, but it is rare.

 

I'm sure Lenovo's Human Factors group in Morrisville, North Carolina has done intensive research on this montrosity.

And it sounds like @Andrew has a point: this thing is designed for field workers, such as those on oil rigs or rigging phone lines, who don't care how their laptop looks.

Stay away.

 

So if I understand this thread correctly, the major (or only) complaint of the X230T is the 6-cell battery? So it sticks out like a sore thumb or a swollen nose. I guess that's a trade off for excellent battery life. If it wobbles on the desk, then slap some adhesive rubber pads on it to balance it. That's a lot less expensive than buying a 3-cell battery.

Of course, my X230T is scheduled to arrive on Tuesday. If the 6-cell battery pisses me off too much (which I doubt), I'll probably bite the bullet and order the 3-cell to use when at home and use the 6-cell when I'm out and about. I'll probably just get some rubber pads...

 

Yeah, the battery is like that on the X220. I had the tablet version and hated the battery design. Also hated how it "raised" the laptop on the desk... I much prefer the flat design when it is sitting on the desk.

Lenovo really jacked up the battery design and I don't know why. What benefit, exactly, does this "hollow" design have other than creating an annoying look/elevation/cheap feel?

It's hideous.

 

They should include them in the box with self-service instructions. They should also provide CRU number for a pack of rubber pads.

 

I hope Lenovo reads these forums! That would be great if they threw in some rubber pads with the 6-cell. Then again, I guess putting your own pads on it would be a way to customize it even more.

Does anyone know just how much the X230T wobbles on the desk? Would putting a nickel or other coin under it prevent it from wobbling?

 

If you read the thread I linked to you'll see these complaints:

* My computer arrived with flaws, such as the LED panel overlay peeling off and the laptop only resting on three feet.

* No Caps Lock LED

* Menu key replaced with Print Screen key, bizarrely. No Scroll Lock, etc.

* The laptop can't be opened with one hand. Trying to do so rotates the whole computer into the air. (Another decision created by jealousy of Apple, but without understanding what they're doing.)

* Though mild by other laptop's standards, the keyboard flexes more than the X201t. Pressing Q, for example, displaces the entire left side of the keyboard. You can see the number row go up and down.

* No LEDs dedicated to telling you when you're plugged in and charging

* Low res screen (but this has been talked about to death by now)

The conclusions I drew were that the X230t is cheap. It's probably designed to cut costs; it's definitely not as well-designed as the X201t, X61t, or X60t; and the laptop's problems indicate, at least to me, that Lenovo is sacrificing the ThinkPad brand. These changes could only have been made to cut costs and imitate the MacBook Pro.

After all, this is the new Lenovo. A company that produces this laptop:



I guess copying another company instead of innovating really boosted their sales, as did coming out with a line of computers that are cheaper and more poorly designed than ThinkPads.

My only hope is that Apple innovating by including a high res display on a laptop ( finally!) will cause the more timorous PC manufacturers to follow suit.

I wouldn't hold out much hope for Lenovo caring about customer feedback. I posted these issues on the Lenovo support forum and a mod buried my post by merging it with an unrelated thread: X230t first impressions? Fail. Build quality issue... - Lenovo Community

He even told me in private messages that he did it because he doesn't like my opinions and username. I messaged this to other mods and an admin, but, apparently, no one cares.

 

Oh god, you had a lemon. Most X230t and X220t don´t suffer this problems.

You can not judge them for this, you could have informed yourself before you bought it. You could also search for images of the 6-cell battery. This is your fault, not Lenovos.

Scroll Lock etc. are also there with FN combis:

Break = Fn + B
SysRq = Fn + S
ScrLK = Fn + C
Pause = Fn + P

 

Funny you should suggest that. I researched the X230t as much as I could, but I bought it on the day of release. I viewed every image on Lenovo.com, and they never showed the 6-cell battery sticking out on the bottom like that. I also had no idea it was the same design as the X220t; Lenovo.com certainly didn't tell me (nor do they have pictures of the battery for the X220t), and I skipped that model anyway.

Look at this and tell me the 6-cell battery looks suspicious:

It looks like the T series and all other ThinkPad batteries, which don't stick out. They're lying by omission.

I suspect they don't show it because it's incredibly ugly. I had to wait for third parties to show the laptop on YouTube before I saw what I had ordered.

Re: the keyboard, yes, I did read about those issues, but that's one of the things where you don't fully realize how it'll impact your productivity until you're sitting with your fingers on the keyboard. That's the case for me, anyway.

Since I've bought six ThinkPads since 2000, can you really blame me for putting trust in Lenovo to get these small details right? Clearly my trust is now shaken, but I really thought they were going to deliver a product that held up the ThinkPad brand.

 

I was going to say "in all fairness, you could have done a simple image search" but after doing numerous image searches for X220t battery, etc, I cannot find a good photo of the "hollow design" battery sticking out.

So, it appears Lenovo is intentionally hiding this from view. Sneaky as I'm sure they know it's a terrible design. Buyer beware for sure. I hated it on my X220 tablet and am sad to see they continued it to the X230. Gives me pause as a potential customer, that's for sure.

 

I suppose Lenovo would care about customer feedback if they received negative feedback from enough customers. I don't know what number constitutes "enough." 50? 100? I have no idea.

I don't doubt that you found flaws on your machine, but it seemed to me that the majority of people on this thread found the 6-cell battery to be the major issue.

Regarding the flaws you found, don't forget that this is the first production run of the X230T. I was concerned about ordering one so early in its production run. Usually the advice is to wait until the manufactorer smoothed out all the rough edges. It seems that you really got a lemon that slipped through their quality control. While a first impression is a lasting impression, we all know it sucks to get a lemon, but it might be premature to say that the entire X230T line sucks or that Lenovo makes a crappy product based off of one sample. I would definitively return it for a replacement. Now if the 2nd one is substandard, then I would definitely get a refund and/or notify their upper management and make heads roll. It just seems the odds of getting lemon decreases as the rate of production increases.

 

That sounds like good advice, and I admit I'm a bit heated on this issue. I'm especially pissed off because I tried to get support and input on the official forums only to have a mod censor my post. That right there made me more likely to say "screw the whole thing" and return the laptop, rather than try a new one with a 3-cell battery.

I'll give it some time and keep using my X201t for now. Maybe the X231t will fix some of the design issues too, such as the LEDs.

I think contacting Lenovo and letting them know what we want in a laptop is definitely a good idea, though. I know that Mark_Lenovo is an admin and reads this board: X Series Tablet ThinkPad Laptops - Lenovo Community. (The ThinkPad Tablet Slate forums have had 10x the number of hardware issues, and the employees sometimes reply directly to the customers.)

If you start a thread I'll add my $0.02.

 

I'd say that most of those issues are known ... But the 3 pads on the desk (looks like the whole thing is warped?) would be cause for me to return any system.

 

this video from lenovo clearly shows that the battery of the x220t sticks out

Lenovo Unboxed: ThinkPad X220t tablet - YouTube

and this is specifically about x230t

Lenovo Unboxed: ThinkPad X230t convertible tablet - YouTube

 

Maybe I'll start one there after I get my X230T. Maybe not, because I don't know where Mark_Lenovo stands on the Lenovo totem pole. Is he a manager or just a run-of-the-mill customer sevice rep? If I got a complaint against Lenovo, I'd rather talk to a supervisor on the phone and get a ticket #.

I didn't know about the missing Caps Lock LED light, but that wouldn't bother me. I'm using a T60 base (the LED screen assembly removed) hooked up to an external monitor. The screen assembly has all the LED lights for Caps Lock, Power, etc. Originally, it bothered me not having those LED lights, but now I'm used to it. Maybe the missing LED lights is a way to conserve power. The little things like no Menu Key, Scroll Lock, etc. are things we're used to; getting a new laptop means getting used to a new layout. Not having a LED for power/charging doesn't seem like a problem, since you can check the battery status on the desktop.

I didn't know the laptop is supposed to be opened one handed. I know it doesn't have a latch, insteadit's magnetic. Maybe you got a really strong magnet, which might be a good thing because then it'll take longer for it to wear out.

Anyway, if you're not satisfied with your X230T, then get a replacement especially if it flexes too much or doesn't seem sturdy. I mean, ThinkPads are supposed to be built to military specs and used on the international space station, right?

 

Mark_Lenovo is the social media manager (Lenovo forum) for Lenovo.

 

How was I to know that the X230t battery was the same as the X220t's? Especially since they didn't show it anywhere.

That video posted June 6th. I bought mine June 5th, 10:33 PM, after doing research in the preceding days. It wasn't until June 12th that I even saw that video, and that's when I made a thread where I was surprised at how ugly the battery is: Battery is extremely ugly; not shown on Lenovo.com - Lenovo Community

That video isn't linked from Lenovo.com and the battery still isn't shown on the site. And my God, is it ugly.

 

Yeah, I don't like the X220t/X230t 6-cell battery design either, and admittedly, with many laptops the extended battery's profile isn't shown on the manufacturer website. The lack of the Caps Lock LED is also a strange omission, although it is visible in the Gallery pictures.

The real defects are the warped chassis and plastic insert issue. I think there were a few complaints about warped chassis defects early on in the X220's production cycle but it seems Lenovo had gotten it all sorted out. Strange that the issue's back with basically an identical chassis.

At least they did waive the 15% restocking fee after some haggling.

 

X220/X230 was a completely new chassis (16:9), and X230 is the same chassis as X220.

 

You can see that the have a similar chassis and that they use the same batterys very easily if you compare them:
X220t
X230t
It is also very usual for Lenovo that they keep the same batterys and the same chassis for minimum two generations. It is no excuse that you say "I don´t know that they use the same batterys".

This video is linked there in fact: ThinkPad X230t - Convertible Tablet and Business Laptop PC from Lenovo (US) "Unboxed Video"

There is also one picture where the battery is shown:
http://www.lenovo.com/shop/WW/produ...230t-Laptop-PC-Side-Back-View-12L-940x475.jpg

 

...which does not show the appearance of the underside of the battery, which is the primary issue.

 

See my previous post regarding why I didn't see the video.

Besides, it should be in the pictures on the site. They don't show it because it's ugly.

 

I was about to order one for my daughter just before this tread came to my attention. I won't order it now. I am going to wait or go for the T series. I do not want to buy RMBP, given the lack of post-sales flexibility.

 

Were you ordering the tablet for your daughter, or the X230? Keep in mind the T will have many of the same "issues" this guy talks about, although hopefully not some of the lemon stuff such as being warped --- but I would suspect that most X230's don't have those problems.

What made you change your mind from the X?

 

You were considering the X230 for your daughter. The X230 T is a completely different beast.

 

op's best course of action is probably to call lenovo and explain that 1) the unit has some faulty parts even though minor; 2) didn't realize that the change of battery shape from X201t, and ask for a replacement with a 3 cylinder battery.

 

Toying between the two.

The overall layout except the screen is same, is it not? The battery I believe would still stick out like a lump (though differently) in X230 than a X230T version. I also do not see forward and backward key buttons (minor issue though). More importantly, given the battery, is it going to be unstable or wobble making typing difficult? I would not care as long as it is stable. But I want to see it probably from a local store, if not read on forums before ordering.

Lenovo ThinkPad X230 Review - YouTube

Lenovo ThinkPad X230 Review | Digital Trends

Can't believe Lenovo could mess-up like this, after seeing comments on the forum. I am surprised.

 

I can only tell you about the X230 (not the T) from my direct experience with the X201 and indirect experience with the X220. The 9-cell battery does stick out about an inch. This has been the case for all ThinkPad models, X and T alike, for years. The look is rather tasteful, and not a hideous lump.

You can always order the 6-cell battery (giving about 8 hours). This battery pack is flushed nicely to the chassis. I personally prefer this.

Oh yes, Lenovo can mess up, and has messed up on various occasions. But, please keep in mind that most forum posts, by nature, are about reporting problems and seeking recommendations and/or solutions from the community of fellow users.

 

The forward and back buttons are gone on ALL _30 series systems... The wise ones at lenovo got rid of the old keyboards across all systems. If you want the old keyboard, you will have to get a X220 or T_20 system.

I can speak for the X220 that while the battery is slightly lower on the back (I have the 9 cell) it is nothing like what is pictured on the X230T. I have no issues with the look or size of my X220's 9 cell battery, however I do wish it fit in a little better... But batteries that feel loose also seem to be common across all lines again.

 

I re-read the posts and it seems op has already returned the unit for a full refund. If that is the case I really fail to see what the fuss is about.

 

that looks promising, though I want to have a look at the retailer if possible.

This is an advantage as you get a first-hand experience.

 

I suggest you download this PDF document and look through the photos and technical specifications.

In the meantime, an X230 with the flushed 6-cell battery looks like this:

 

With the X230 and X220 ( not the tablet versions):

4-cell: Flush, entirely flat on bottom. Left laptop foot and the foot on the battery will touch a flat desk surface.

6-cell: Not flush on the bottom, but flush with the back (as seen in the picture Kaso inserted). From the bottom, there is a very slight protrusion (~0.25 inch), but the battery has two rubber feet, so the laptop is perfectly stable.

9-cell: Exactly the same as the 6-cell on the bottom, but extends out almost exactly one inch from the rear of the laptop.

In my T500 and X120e, which both have extended batteries, I don't find the 1 inch protrusion from the extended battery to be a problem at all, either aesthetically or ergonomically.

 

Thank for the little details. I guess 6 cell, as recommended by Kaso, is the best choice. The protrusion at the rear is fine. If the notebook is stable for some serious work/typing, I am happy with it.

 

get a Samsung.

 

If you like soldered components and premium prices, Samsung's high end series 9 offers a good alternative to the mbp

 

You guys know the all Macbook Pro's and X series are all BGA soldered too?

 

what's soldered on the x230t (beside prob the cpu)?

 

Whats soldered on samsungs other than the CPU? All the RAM?

If the battery has a hollow bump sticking out of it, maybe you can modify it and remove the bump.

 

Everything but RAM, HDD, WLAN card, etc. CPU and GPU are BGA soldered, as almost all ULV/LV CPUs are BGA soldered.

 

Sounds like a LOT more opportunities for customization and upgrading than a macbook to me. How well does the series 9 warranty cover ram and hdd upgrades?

btw, nice call throwing the integrated gfx in there lol. Is the memory controller soldered to the motherboard too?

 

Which is exactly why none of them would touch a ThinkPad or a Mac with a 30-foot pole during work hours...