X61s vs. X200s for programmer/developer?

There is another thread like this, but didn't want to hijack the thread since it was very specific to battery life.

I'm getting a new laptop to replace my aging, well loved and now cracked X31.

I can't for the life of me decide between the X200s and the X61s.. I'm basing my decision on the X200 for the X200s, assuming most features are similar. There are far too many improvements on the X200, but the X61s screen and dimension is too good.

I intend to use this laptop for a lot of on the road traveling and programming (i.e. Java programming using eclipse IDE, some Visual Studio with C# and some web development). I have always used standard aspect ratio (4:3) on all my screens, and have no idea how effective widescreen is for my type of use (or programming)..

Anyone care to weigh in their experience?

My thoughts are

**** X61s ****
Pros:
- Laptop size is perfect
- Screen size is larger than X200s
- No ugly lip around the screen
- A little cheaper than X200s (about 10-15%)

Cons:
- Laptop runs hotter than X200
- Have the hot right palm rest issue
- Wide screen is nicer with Vista (I like the widgets on the side) and the X200 has overall higher resolution vertically and horizontally

**** X200s ****
Pros:
- Excellent screen (LED)
- Higher Resolution vertically and horizontally (ideal wide screen setup). More software is taking advantage of the wide screen now....
- Better customization option right now over X61s
- Faster processor that runs cooler
- Better sound (?)
- Faster graphics chip! (can it run Starcraft 2?)
- Digital output with Display port i.e. ability to output to DVI

Cons:
- Only an inch wider, but still I don't like the form factor i.e. size of laptop
- huge ugly lip around screen (major for me, because it is always in my face to remind me)
- small screen size compared to X61s (almost an inch lost vertically and only a gain of half an inch horizontally)
- higher cost than X61s

By the way, I searched but surprised there wasn't a thread like this already.

 

Is there display port on the x200s? I didn't think so unless you're talking about the ultrabase. Regarding the bezel...I would check out the pictures I took from my x200 discussion thread. http://jedicore.com/x200 . I don't notice the bezel in everyday use because it is black...and tends to not get my attention. I think you need to see it in person for that part to come into play. However i think the full size keyboard is beneficial for long sessions of typing or programming. You might lose an inch physically...but you still have the resolution. If you have decent eyesight all I think you will be fine.

But ultimately I think we need to wait for reviews of the x200s.

 

I do lots of programming on the road/airplane/hotel.

I was between the x301 and the Vaio Z, but it looks like I'll be waiting for the x200s with WXGA+ instead, unless it bombs in the reviews, which I really doubt.

 

The bezel issue and price difference are hardly worth mentioning IMHO. The bezel affects aesthetics only, and if aesthetics are important you probably shouldn't be looking at a thinkpad The difference in price is quite minor and is easily made up for in what the notebook can be resold for a year from now when the X61s is ancient and the X200s is still a fresh model. So then I think you are left with 2 cons for the X200s: dimensions and aspect ratio. The dimensions of the notebook are only *very* slightly different - we are talking about an inch in width - and the widescreen aspect ratio has as many advantages as it does disadvantages. If we assume that these are both indeed "problems" with the X200s, I'd say that considering the long list of other advantages of the X200s over the X61s that the decision is easy.

BTW, one thing you may not be aware of is the brightness difference between the two displays. The X61s display is 180 nits. The X200 LED screen is 250 nits. That is a big difference.

 

leesiulungm

You are wrong when you say the screen size is larger since the X200s has a higher resolution.

The X61s is 1024x768 where the X200s is 1440x900. You shouldn't worry about 4:3 vs. 8:5 since the X200s has more resolution in both directions.

 

The screen on the X61s is physically larger than the X200s. However, you see more on the X200s as you mentioned since it has a higher resolution. Everything will be sharper, but appear smaller on screen.

I wasn't aware that the X200s is 1440x900 though, I thought it would be 1280x800.

I went to the store today and saw a 12.1" widescreen 1280x800 and the screen was small... way small... Wish they could fit a 13" screen instead of the 12.1". The resolution though was a significant advantage and I'm leaning a little bit more towards the X200s now....

 

Since in a workspace you decide how much zoom you want in your project, having more resolution means the top toolbars will be smaller but you can acutally fit more of what you want to work with on the screen.. The reason the X200 is not using a 13 inch screen and filling the edges of the top bezel in order to fit a larger antenna up the sides. That and using the 12.1 screen keeps the cost down which is another plus. If they had a larger screen, it would be a direct competitor with the X300/X301 series which is another reason they made it smaller. Simply by upgrading the screens resolution from the X200 from 1280x800 to 1440x900 in the X200s and using carbon fiber instead of magnesium alluminum to make things lighter, the price has gone way up in comparison. To Lenovo's benefit, they do have a wide selection for those Road Warriors to choose from and I think I'll be happy once I get my regular X200 on Monday or Tuesday. However if I needed the extra resolution and lighter wieght but didn't need a strong cpu, then the X200s looks lie the best choice..

 

Lets make this simpler
programming/developing => high resolution => x200s

How many lines of your code can you see on a 1024x768 resolution screen?

It is nonsense to compare the size of the screen between x61s and x200s.

 

It looks like most people seem to like the X200. However, I hear reports of 12.1" Widescreen 1440x900 reoslution screens. That has to be small and hard to read?

 

The x200 is 1280x800. The x200s will have the option for an LED screen that does 1440x900. It is probably harder to read for some...but I wouldn't mind it (I have a x200 though).

 

I'd vote to go for X200.

I am Java programmer as well. Here are some reasons why you'll need the extra processing power.You'll never know when you need to simulate something on your development environment, eg: JMS Server,Terracotta Server,Clustering ,VMWare etc. Faster machine (processor, ram) means extra productivity. I used R40 before upgrading to T61. During development I often need to restart tomcat server to test changes I made. On R40 it need around 40 s, while on T61 around 10 s.

I switched from 4:3 to widescreen. I don't feel comfortable at first, but now It does not make any difference.Also the extra resolution 1440x900 compared to 1024x768 makes my desktop feel more spacious. I am able to put more things on my screen. The only downsize is lots of game are optimized for 4:3 resolution, so you have options to see black borders during playing or see unnatural scretch.

 

Having just received my x200 today, and spending the afternoon with it, there are a few things I really like about the x200 over my x61s. The screen real estate is really, a prime reason for keeping this machine. Even though I was okay with the 4:3 ratio of the x61s, the resolution of the x200 lets me do more work and is very important to me for school note taking. I can do without the bezel, but its not that bad. Knowing that the rest of the machine is one of the best out there right now appeases me for that respect.

The keyboard does feel different from the x61s, and feels more quiet and spongy almost. Still a pleasure to type on, and not nearly as loud as my x61s. I kind of like it.

 

I don't know if you've ever worked with a wide-screen before... but it makes a huge difference in everything.... especially programming.

I highly recommend you go with the x200s just for that alone.

 

How is the readability of X200 with 1280x800? With 1440x900 I imagine it is though to read?

I don't want to strain my eyes too much, as I have terrible vision.

 

The best bet is go to your local computer store and take a look at it yourself.

 

See a Thinkpad in person? Isn't that like, impossible? I once saw some Lenovo computers in a Staples, but I've never seen a Thinkpad in a big store (best buy, frys, etc)

 

It doesn't need to be a thinkpad to compare the resolution.

 

Are there any 12.1" 1440x900 laptops other than the x200s?

 

You could always take a screenshot of a 1440x900 screen on a memory stick or something then view it fullscreen on the laptop.

 

You got a point. But maybe it would be easier to ask an x300 owner for a screenshot and resize it to 12.1" screen size.

 

you don't need to see a 12.1" screen with 1440x900 res, you just need a display that has the same DPI. The X200s display is 140 DPI. Netbooks are generally 133 DPI I think (1024x600 10" or 800x480 7"). So the X200s will have just slightly higher DPI than a netbook. Try that for a comparison.

To calculate DPI, check this out:
http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html

 

There are other screen sizes which have close to the same DPI. I know I'll be fine with the X200s (140.3dpi) since it's very close to my Lifebook P5020, which has a 10.6" screen with 1280x768 resolution (140.8dpi).

So you might go to a store to check out comparable DPI screens in some smaller machines. I can't think of any larger screens which align right... the common resolutions of 1680x1050 would need to be on a 14" screen, roughly... and 1920x1200 would need a 16" roughtly... but for whatever reasons there seem to be no displays at these physical dimensions.

 

I just remembered that one of my old notebooks, an Averatec 1020 ( LINK for pics) had WXGA on a 10.6" display (147.8 DPI) and I had no problem using it at all.

I'm quite pleased that Lenovo went beyond expectations and did WXGA+ for the X200s and am really looking forward to it.

 

Long exposure to 140DPI screens (at normal system DPI setting) will make you nearsighted sooner than later.

 

I am really tired of reading this over and over again - it is simply non true. You and many people may find high resolution uncomfortable, but no, it is not 'dangerous', nor does lead to unnatural eyestrain.

I worked on a Fujitsu P7010 (1280x768, 10,6") for the last four years and no, my eyesight did not get any worse than it was. Having more space to work in a smaller package is great, and I am glad Lenovo offers the opportunity to get a high resolution 12".

 

X200 and 12" screen for programming seems like a strange choice to me?

I'd think you'd want something more in the workstation caliber of things (T61p, W series).

 

Like all paper books with 300+ PPI/DPI do.

 

Nah. If you're just doing basic windows or web code in .NET, atleast, anything with 2gb of ram and a decent dual core processor will kick the crap out of it. I'm getting an X200s for myself when they drop in price, mostly to program with. It won't be bad... Infact, it'll kick all sorts of tail. 1440x900, a long battery life, 7200 rpm hdd and the kicker: full size THINKPAD keyboard I think I'll fall in love all over again - like I did with my T40.

 

The x200s has the perfect balance of mobility, performance and screen real estate. My job involves traveling a lot, and programming. I'll get a ThinkStation for the office. I do some cpu intensive stuff, but I'll just do it with remote desktop when on the road.

 

I considered a 4:3 T61p, but they removed it before I got a chance to order it. However, I realized that if it was big, heavy and bulky I would be lazy and not want to carry it around. At home, I just dock it to a 20" 1600x1200 LCD....

This Widescreen craze isn't making me happy and I think 1440x900 is just way too much to cram onto a 12.1" screen.

 

While it's a proven fact that reading books (or doing any other activity that forces your eye to look at close objects for long period) raise the chance to develop nearsightedness (myopia), still, the font size in most books is big enough to at least be comfortable and so leads to less strain. If Vista/XP had proper DPI scalling it would have been a non-issue, but they don't, they both rely on software developers to provide DPI scalability, and the latter don't give a ****.

 

Depends on the programming... at work I was using multiple screens and relying on Incredibuild to make compile times tolerable. That's what happens when you have too many programmers creating bloaty crap. I needed the screen real-estate to make up for my lack of deep understanding of the piles of code.

For working on a solo project, or an independent piece of a larger project, I find less need for screen-space. Not as much need for viewports serving as references to other people's stuff since it's in one head: mine. As for processing power, once iteration or testing starts feeling slow, you have to optimize and maybe simplify or break up the test cases... this will happen with great resources available too... just happens sooner with a little ULV processor and keeps you from letting things get too far out of hand.

This is just sooo much more power than the old 486... and greater resolution even though physically a little smaller than the 14" (13 viewable) CRT... it ends up closer to my eyes and taking the same visual space as a 24" screen anyway. I guess I'm suggesting it's a matter of perspective.

 

leesiulung- What did you get? I'm an X31 user that is considering getting something newer. I don't need to upgrade since the X31 does everything I need and does it well. I'm having some problems today which I think are software related but I don't want to be in a rush one day to buy one.

 

Might have better luck simply PMing him. Plus, this thread is 5 months old!

 

Did that after I posted. Some people never check their PM box...