Y500 SLI and Valve Source game engine stuttering fix

When I was doing my research on what Laptop to buy, this forum was essential in helping in my research. So, I'm here with information.

The Y500 SLI had an issue with SLI mode and Valve games (Source Engine) during Vsync. Turn on Vysnc and it crashed or had massive frame stuttering. Turn off Vysnc and deal with screen tearing. In order to deal with this, I just turned of SLI for source games in the NVIDIA control panel and went on with my gaming. Not anymore...

I'm here to say, that's no longer necessary. I got a bug up my butt about it and decided to look into it again. The solution is, quite simply, border-less windowed mode. For DOTA 2 and Portal 2, this can be activated in the Video settings. For Portal and TF2, this can't do it in the game's "Video Options". You can still enable it anyways for these games.

Go to your Steam Library, right click on the Source Game and choose "Properties". Go to "Set Launch Options". In that box, put the following:

-windowed -noborder +fps_max 60

What this does is use two command line options and one console command option when launching the game. Windowed mode, borderless (command line) and set the max fps to 60 (console command).

Why does this work? In theory, it is the result of the 59hz/60hz issue. The real refresh rate of the monitor is 59.94hz. Nvidia control panel shows the monitor refresh rate at 60hz, Windows rounds down to 59.

The kind of stuttering observed is, in my opinion, a result of the computer sending a different refresh rate to the monitor than the monitor was capable of. Somewhere in the process of trying to decide what refresh rate to send to the monitor during Vsync, the Valve Source engine got confused and decided to send a signal that the monitor didn't like. The monitor tried to handle it anyways and threw up visually.

 

I think I might've had the same problem but it only affected Source Engine multiplayer games. What I did to fix it was turn on and then turn off Vsync from within the game. That seemed to fix the massive stuttering/tearing and frame syncing issues I was having with SLI in those games. The only inconvenience is that I have to perform the fix every time I start up the game.

 

It actually affects all of them. Portal and Portal 2 have the issue as well. Screen tearing with no vsync or frame stuttering with vsync

Your fix works in TF2, it doesn't work in DOTA 2, Portal, or Portal 2. My solution works in all of them. The TF2 one was so annoying, it was the first game I disabled SLI on in the NVIDIA control panel. Sure, you could enable, disable, enable Vsync every time before you start (I did that for a while). That's just annoying and not worth the trouble.

You don't have to do that, at all, anymore. I haven't fully tested it in TF2, but I think it's entirely likely you can eliminate screen tearing and not have frame stuttering if you just use the start up option. I do know, what I suggested in first post does work with TF2. No screen tearing, no stuttering, and SLI is on.

+fps_max 60

You may not even need to run border-less full screen. It's just that border-less full screen when run as a video option in Dota 2 and Portal 2 fixes everything, so I went that route across the board with Source games and had the issue completely fixed.

EDIT: Tested launching TF2 with the without border-less window mode and just using the +fps_max 60, it does not work. You need border-less window mode.

 

I think my issue is a little different. The only common denominator is that disabling SLI solves each of our respective problems. My issue is only in Source multiplayer games and it's massive screen tearing and jittering when I use an FPS cap without Vsync. If I turn on Vsync or use no FPS cap (fps_max 0) then it goes away. Turning Vsync on and then off fixes it for me completely and lets me use fps_max 60 with no issues. There's still screen tearing due to lack of Vsync but at least I don't have to deal with the input lag and I don't need Source games to run at 300 FPS all the time.

 

I played Gmod and TF2 without any problems.. vSync off

 

I'm assuming you didn't change any of the console commands. By default Source Engine games use fps_max 300 which doesn't cause issues for me, it just runs at too high an FPS and is wasteful. Try fps_max 60 or fps_max 100 with Vsync off and see if you are still problem-free. Maybe they fixed or changed something with the 750M SLI systems.

 

OMG Ive been wondering why dota 2 has been messing up.... Only thing that fixes it is turning Vsync on/off.

In fact, just toggling it seems to work... Strange.

I'm running SLI 750M

 

I don't mind having my FPS at like 250 at all times, lol

 

In sourceengine it either causes tearing/stuttering OR with Vsync on it causes stuttering/graphic glitches

 

That's exactly what I worked for me too.

It's pointless to run at 300 FPS all the time as anything over 60 is just wasted frames heating up your video card more than it needs to. You also get more screen tearing than if you capped you FPS at 60 for instance. I actually have no visual glitches in Source games with Vsync enabled. It gives me the smoothest and cleanest video and animation performance with no jitter during panning or screen tearing but the input lag is why I don't use it. I can put up with a little bit of tearing at a capped 60 FPS in return for zero input lag which helps enormously in online shooters.

 

I have the i5 650m SLI y500.

I actually did that at first for TF2. Thing is, DOTA 2 never ran right with SLI under any circumstances. When you change view area, there's a stuttering as the view moves around. It's most obvious when you're spectating and using the directed camera. Portal 1/2 had the same issue, but the vsync off/on trick "fixed" it. Eventually, I just got annoyed with the whole idea and just disabled SLI for Source games in the NVIDIA control panel. There's no stuttering when you're using only one card. I never liked this answer because DOTA 2 doesn't run consistently at 60+fps with only one card active (where as all other Source games ran at 60+fps). Which is why I searched for a solution that worked with SLI on AND didn't require the Vsyc on/off trick and then started this thread.

You don't have to do the Vsync on/off trick with Source games if you use border-less windowed mode. They work as-is every time with no tinkering in SLI from that day forward.

 

Yeah borderless window mode generally solves a lot of issues. For a lot of games it makes it possible to ALT-TAB out of the game without crashing if running the game fullscreen makes it impossible to do so without crashing to desktop. The only issue might be performance going down slightly due to lower CPU priority than running the game fullscreen but generally I haven't found it to be a problem.

 

Just tried the border less window mode and it also solved the issue. Hi5@OP.

 

Finally I can put the dual gt750m to good use.

 

You know like pretty much all Source Engine games can run maxed out on a single GT 750M without breaking a sweat?

 

If you play the game you will know there are scenes where the FPS will take a huge dip. Take for example, when you have Phantom Lancers with his cancerous illusions, then you have Sandking ult going on, CM ult going on. All these big AOE skills with fancy visuals will dip the FPS alot.

 

Sorry I have no idea what that is. I assume that is a DOTA 2 reference. I don't play the game and know nothing about it.

 

It's just the nature of the game that at certain times there might be too many things going on at once, and that will drop the FPS a lot. Having a high average FPS will help preventing this problem.

 

HEY! This is awesome. I tried this on a few other games and just wanted to report that Borderlands 2 GREATLY benefits from a FPS limiter as well to smooth out frames (namely the fps limiter in rtss.exe- MSI afterburner's accompanying OSD program) I've found that not all FPS limiters are the same. The Nvidia fps limiter doesn't work as well as Dxtory, MSI Afterburner, or EVGA for smoothing out 60fps.


I have triple buffering + fps limit to 60, and borderlands 2 performs without any stuttering with physx on medium and everything else medium/high on 1080p. Constant 60fps This laptop is pretty beast. You would think forcing a 60fps cap would be redundant with triple buffered vsync but w.e

 

I also use the FPS limiter in RTSS for games that don't have their own FPS limiter either through the game settings or config files.

Yes that 60 FPS cap is redundant and not doing anything if you already have Vsync and tiple buffering. You could also use Adaptive Vsync in the Nvidia Control Panel which does just as well as triple buffered Vsync without requiring you to install D3DOverrider to enable tiple buffering in Direct3D games. I don't bother with any of that since Vsync gives me unbearable input lag and makes me suck in FPS games. It's nice for reducing screen tearing but the tradeoff in aiming precision and reaction time is definitely not worth it so I just use a 60 FPS cap by itself. I tried limiting FPS to 58 in conjunction with triple buffered Vsync because I heard it eliminates the input lag but it's not true.

 

Well guys, I can report that 320.18 completely breaks World of Tanks in fullscreen. It microstutters and tears like mad now even if I use the toggle Vsync trick, which worked previously in 314.22. I also went into the Nvidia Control Panel and made a custom resolution of 1920x1080 @ 60.001 Hz so that I could select 60 Hz in Windows without it automatically reverting back to 59 Hz every time, but that didn't fix it either. World of Tanks still works fine in windowed mode but that obviously disables SLI. Since there's no built-in way to run WoT as a fullscreen borderless window like there is for Source Engine games, I have consigned myself to waiting until whichever future driver release fixes this. I don't play WoT much anyway so it's not a huge deal.

As far as Source Engine multiplayer games are concerned, toggling Vsync still fixes the stuttering in those games for me on 320.18.

So it seems whatever bugger is causing the excessive stuttering/tearing in SLI, it's not only application-related but also driver-related.

 

this is ridiculous. Thanks for confirming its not just me though!

 

Scratch what I said previously about toggling Vsync still working in Source games. I just looked into it further today and it no longer works after updating to 320.18, just like World of Tanks. I'm running a fullscreen borderless window now so all is good.

 

Have you tried using msi afterburner framerate limiter set to 61 frames per second and turning on vsync. Read a thread some were with people having problems with screen tearing. Cant remember if it helps with micro shuttering, but it worked for me. I was getting 100+ fps in tf2 and it would screen tear like no tomorrow. Also works in bf3.

 

The problem is not normal screen tearing. It's a far more annoying and eye-straining kind of visual glitching. I have no problem with screen tearing but this just kills my eyes. I'll take a video of the problem and post it.

Also Vsync solves the issue for the Source games without having to use borderless window, but I can't play with Vsync because of the input lag. Vsync does NOT solve it for World of Tanks. The only way I can even bear to play it is to run it as a window.

Source Engine multiplayer games and World of Tanks are the only ones with this issue. I have BF3 and it is perfectly fine. I use a 60 FPS cap using the GameTime.MaxVariableFps 60 console command and there's some normal screen tearing but not the major problem that the aforementioned games have.

Anyway using a 61 FPS cap with Vsync is redundant. Vsync is limiting it to 60 FPS max anyway so the cap is useless.

EDIT: Here's a video of the problem in World of Tanks. Try to watch in fullscreen at 1080p if you can. It's pretty hard to see due to crappy point-and-shoot recording at 24 FPS but pay attention to the increased jitterying/glitching/screen tearing in the second half when I am in fullscreen. The difference is most apparent in the buildings in the background. It may not look like much but it's a lot worse in real life.

 

Hello Octiceps,

Last week I bought an Ideapad Y500 with the same specs as yours (minus the SSD) and I am having the exact same problems as you are in World of tanks.

With SLI enabled it is completely unplayable but as soon as you go in windowed-mode then there is no problem at all.

Are you sure the SLI disables when you use windowed mode?

And if so, when do you think it will be able to use SLI effectively in WOT?

It is simply just stupid to only use half of the availiable power.

 

No SLI works great in windowed mode. The only thing I can't stand is the borders around the window. World of Tanks doesn't have a built-in option for a borderless window like Source Engine games do. Hopefully they'll add it in the near future, or Nvidia fixes their driver.

 

Talking to someone I know who works in Nvidia, the problem with SLI on Source games lies not on the Nvidia driver but the Source engine. Valve has to fix it.

 

But the driver is at least part of the problem because toggling Vsync fixed it in 314.22 but not in 320.18.

 

I think i might have been the one to suggest this, and so far it really is the only solution that's worked "across the board" for almost all of my games. Almost.

Octiceps, I know it'd seem redundant and thus unnecessary to use MSI AB 61fps cap + Adaptive Vsync (considering the 60fps vsync traditionally brings), but it really does make a HUGE difference for my games, and apparently for the professor too IMO, the best example of this would be with borderlands 2 (it has an intro screen/main menu that you can manipulate-- the camera around your player character). I used the following combinations in my testing, and the stutter i mention is HEAVY (feels a LOT like the stutter in source games):

No Vsync and No FPS Cap - heavy rhythmic stutter AND screen tearing.

Adaptive/Standard Vsync (nvidia control panel) and No FPS Cap - same rhythmic stutter, no screen tearing

No Vsync and FPS Cap (set to 60fps) - No rhythmic stutter but still heavy tearing

Adaptive Vsync and 61FPS Cap - No stutter, no tearing. Adaptive vsync works as intended (mostly). I've noticed that some engines don't like this combo and the FPS will rise above 60 at times, resulting in some tearing. and for games that I don't have stuttering I don't place a FPS cap.

I've ditched triple buffering for adaptive vsync due to a weird 40fps cap triple buffering placed on some of my games. can someone confirm whether d3doverrider indeed works or not? I noticed it fluctuates the fps of some of my games to 40 and 60 (no # between), inducing what you could also call stutter.

 

Hey guys,

Great information and thread. I currently have only tried TF2 on my new Y500. I'm playing it at 1080p, High Settings w/ V-Sync Off. Fixed the crazy stuttering in game, although it still doesn't feel 100% fluid... a little jittery I would say. I have the stuttering when it replays the play when I die (Deathcam). I also notice that whenever I press 'V' to do voice chat, there is a lag as well.


I've done the following:
Launch conditions for TF2:
-windowed -noborder +fps_max 60

I've updated to the newest drivers from Nvidia's Website.

Tried MSI Afterburner + Riva and set FPS Limiter to 61 fps

Also tried the adaptive vsync in the nvidia control panel. And toggling Vsync in game before that.

None of these changes have stopped the deathcam from stuttering like crazy. I also feel like there is a slight video lag overall.. Maybe it will be better today. I have an excellent connection here, and the specs on the computer are way above was TF2 Requires... Any help would be appreciated!

- Mike

 

The jitter during deathcam never goes away, but with the borderless window fix everything else is smooth. As for the freeze after voice chat I have never been able to resolve that either, and it doesn't just affect TF2 but other games which have VOIP as well. What's weird is the problem is inconsistent, for example I get the freeze when voice chatting in CS:S and Rising Storm but not in DoD:S or CoD:MW3.

 

That's so strange!!! These are some weird problems if I do say so myself. I'm kind of thinking that the voice chat part could be sound related (IE programs taking priority over our specific soundcards-- esp with the dolby. there could be some kind of conflict). What are your settings in TF2

I'm running 1080p, in 16:9 ratio.. borderless windowed mode. The advanced settings are at:

Model & Shader & Shadow Detail = High
Texture Detail = Very High
Water Reflection = Reflect World ( Can I turn on Reflect All?)
AA Mode = None
Filtering Mode = Tri-linear
V-Sync = Disabled.

(I have not put adaptive Vsync on the nvidia control panel.. is this worth it?.. I also did not do the fps limiter 61 through riva... seeing as how we already limited it on the launch properties, right?)

High Dynamic Range = Full

Use Bloom Effect is unchecked.

I've also looked into unlocking the bios to boost the monitor up to 75hz and OC the video cards for more intensive games such as Watchdogs / Metro Last Light etc etc. What's your take on that?

Thanks for your help and quick response!! You da man =P

 

I wish there was some kind of consistent pattern to the in-game VOIP stutter because that would make it so much easier to troubleshoot and diagnose. Third-party programs like TeamSpeak 3 and Skype work just fine and don't cause stuttering when I'm running them in the background as I game. Steam chat is fine also. I've tried a a number of different things such as turning off Dolby Home Theater V4 and changing my audio playback rate and bit depth in Windows but nothing has worked so far. I'm hoping that the next Realtek HD Audio driver update will do something but it hasn't been updated in 5 months.

As for TF2 video settings, I just have everything maxed out except AA is turned off. I use FXAA forced through the TF2 application profile in Nvidia Control Panel because it looks better (does transparency antialiasing which MSAA can't do) and is surprisingly non-blurry, at least in Source Engine games. BTW these are my video settings for all Source games. The Y500 SLI runs them like butter so just crank everything up and go.

Also, use my autoexec.cfg file which has ideal network settings for all Source Engine multiplayer shooters (TF2, DoD:S, CS:S, HL2 DM) on a decent broadband connection. Put this file in your C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Team Fortress 2\tf\cfg folder and it will improve your hit registration over the default net settings. Do the same for your other Source MP games. For CS:S you should change the top 3 values from 66 to 100 as there are a still a small number of 100 tick and bunnyhop servers out there where you would benefit from the higher tick rate. You can edit or view the .cfg file using WordPad or Notepad.

Do not use Vsync in any form, whether it be from within the game or in the Nvidia Control Panel, as it introduces input lag which will be detrimental to your performance in shooters. If you need to keep the FPS below a certain value (e.g. 60 FPS) use an FPS limiter, whether from within the game or using an outside program. You don't need to use an outside FPS limiter like RivaTuner if you're already limiting it elsewhere as that is redundant. You don't even need to put it in TF2's launch options as the command is already there in the autoexec file and 66 FPS, not 60 FPS, is ideal for 66 tick servers.

You don't need to flash the BIOS mod to overclock the display panel. You can do it using the Pixel Clock OC Utility in EVGA Precision (easy way) or by creating custom resolutions in the Nvidia Control Panel (more difficult way).

Do you have 650M SLI or 750M SLI? With 650M SLI there is definitely a lot of benefit to overclocking, especially in the newest games, and you can push it a lot. 750M SLI not so much because it's already running higher clocks speeds and voltage and can get pretty hot if you try to push it more. I took my 650M SLI from 790/2000 at stock to 1120/2250 which is a 42% and 13% OC on core and memory respectively. It's gotten me 30-40% more FPS in demanding games and made a really noticeable difference.

I wouldn't get into the whole overclocking and overvolting thing unless you know what you're doing. It can be pretty time-consuming and you need to make sure the laptop is already running as cool as it can before you attempt to do so. For me, that meant buying a cooling pad and opening it up to repaste the CPU and GPU. But if you do get into it the gains can be pretty drastic. If you check my sig I overvolted and pushed my core to 1260 MHz, which got me the #3 all-time 3DMark 11 score for the 650M SLI configuration. I may have to update my drivers and go for the top score some day, just for the heck of it.

 

Wow. Wrote everything down and used all the settings, as well as the configuration you gave me. Everything is running much smoother! Thank you very very much for your help.

I'll keep an eye on different driver updates and fixes and report back here if I find anything that might help with the in-game chat lag, as well as the replay stuttering.

As far as the overclocking, I've got the 650m SLI version, so I will overclock them eventually, when I find a game that will need it. I've had experience with overclocking both desktop and laptop graphics cards. I've done thermal paste on both types as well. Just looking for a simple, conservative OC, not looking to break records like you! =P That's very impressive!! I will definitely be getting a laptop cooler before I try any overclocking as well.

Once again, thanks for all your help in getting me started with everything on my new laptop-- seems to be running great now! Hopefully others will stumble across some keywords and find your advice useful as well =)

 

This solution is no longer necessary in Windows 8.0. The NVIDIA WHQL R331 driver has fixes the stuttering issue with Source Engine games while running full screen.

 

331.58 to be specific, best drivers I have ever used on my Y500. Not 331.40, which even though part of the same R331 branch does not fix the stuttering and in fact causes it in more games.