Yoga 13 Haswell refresh imminent?

I have been shopping around for a new laptop for a couple of months now, and I have noticed recently that the Yoga 13 has less configuration options available than it used to. Specifically, the Clemintine Orange, though it is featured on Lenovo's home page, is available in only two configurations (vs. four for the silver) and is getting difficult to find at 3rd party resellers. Some resellers (like Costco) are out of 8 GB RAM variants all together. Could this be a sign that they are just selling through the remaining Ivy Bridge based inventory before revealing the Haswell based refresh or am I reading too much into this?

 

No, the Yoga is not getting a refresh right now according to Engadget.
Lenovo refreshes its IdeaPad laptops with Haswell and touch, designs unchanged

 

At least not one that's been announced yet. Author from ultrabooknews.com tweeted from a show in Germany that there will be a Haswell Yoga13.... he's been a good source of info.

I'd only buy it if they finally have an Intel wireless, comply with WiDi and get some better antennas.

 

A Haswell-Equipped Yoga 13S would be nice.

HOWEVER:

Yogas run on Intel Y series chips, which are even less powered than ULV chips. Haswell Y chips havent been released yet, so looks like we shall be waiting until Q4.


No Haswell Yoga 13 until we get Y chips, but we could see a Ivy Bridge 300S.

 

Only U and Y got the haswell treatment (im writing this from my haswell-equipped Y410P).

 

No, only the 11S runs on the Y chip. The 13 runs on the U one.

Haswell Yoga is indeed coming. Intel's Computex 2013 presentation has some details on the Yoga refresh.

-Thinner
-Lighter
-Much better display
-Backlit keyboard

Officially the Ultrabooks based on Haswell are slated to launch Back to School season. We'll see lot more in August/September timeframe. September 1st is where they get more Haswell mobile SKUs out as well.

My hopes for the Yoga with 4th Generation Core:

-Same price point as last generation
-10 hours of battery life(doable with Haswell)
-Dual Channel memory
-HD 5000 iGPU options

 

A thinner 11''-12'' edge to edge screen (get rid of these hideous bezels) Yoga with U series Haswell, Windows 8.1..., and a thunderbolt port. Too much to ask? Yes, of course.

 

If you use it as a tablet, though, bezels are important for gripping it, though. Unless Win8 has edge finger rejection like iOS?

I for one want it to have a 13.3" with tiny hardware bezels that becomes 11" with software bezels, like Intel's North Cape concept: http://m.digitaltrends.com/computin...-haswell-powered-prototype-laptop-north-cape/

 

Thanks for the info!

I wonder by saying much better display whether they are referring to

RGBLED like in the Dell SXPS 16 (a stunner - called by many the best screen in a consumer laptop)

Or

IGZO displays ( http://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/10/apple-to-adopt-igzo-displays-for-future-ipads-and-macbooks/ )

Or

3200x1800, the same resolution Samsung is using in its top Ultrabooks. Very convenient as double the current Yoga 13's resolution, so high resolution without tiny or botched UI!

 

Or, it might have a 2560 x 1440 IGZO panel (the 3200 x 1800 versions are only for 11.6", 14", and 15.6"). Maybe a Yoga 14?!

IGZO has lots of benefits, apparently:

"That's IGZO, folks, another acronym to start hearing about. IGZO stands for indium gallium zinc oxide, and it was developed by Sharp as a thinner, more translucent and responsive alternative to the amorphous silicon used in most of today's LCD panels. A thinner active layer means more light can pass through more pixels, which means greater-resolution displays with faster refresh rates that use less energy to run, and require less cabinet space to keep cool.

That's according to Steve Brauner, senior product line manager for professional displays at Sharp. During a phone briefing with the CRN Test Center, Brauner explained that without a new technology, today's thin-film transistor (TFT) displays had hit a wall. "To increase the number of pixels, you have to increase the light that goes through," or darken the viewing environment, Brauner said. "That's why viewing high-resolution X-rays requires a dark room." Each pixel has a transistor behind it, so displays packed with pixels also are packed with light-blocking transistors. "The IGZO TFT dramatically reduces the size of the transistor, allowing more light to pass through," he said.

Side effects of the new technology actually have useful benefits, said Brauner. Aside from reducing the required light intensity, Brauner said that IGZO enables more light to be distributed more evenly to the edges of the screen. The panel also has persistence characteristics that enable it to maintain unchanged portions of the display without the use of the graphics processor. While this characteristic isn't in play on the desktop, it's expected to greatly benefit battery-operated devices. Apple is reportedly considering IGZO in its next-gen iPhones."

From: http://www.crn.com/news/components-peripherals/240159384/review-sharps-32-inch-ultra-hd-monitor.htm

Not to get too hopeful, lol, but that persistence technology seems to line up well with Intel's panel self refresh technology Intel wanted to put in Haswell laptops: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6355/intels-haswell-architecture/3

Man, this laptop is getting exciting, even though we know very little, lol. We haven't even seen Haswell's final form!

----

These might be pictures of it:

http://www.thinkdigit.com/slideshow...3-Intel-and-Windows-8-Convertibles_14941.html

 

I apologize for the repeated bumps...maybe not something people are interested in talking about! Anyways, it looks like we might be getting 3200 x 1800 in a 13.3" screen!

http://hothardware.com/m/News/Samsu...0X1800-Display-Coming-This-Month/default.aspx

No word if it's IGZO or not, though, but with a 350 CD/m2 brightness and that Samsung bought 3% of Sharp to bolster the supply of IGZO displays, we might be getting it!!

 

Hmmm, how awesome would it be if they equipped this with the Wacom 3200 x 1800 that they were (are) going to put on the Ativ Q.... It would really give ux/digital professionals a dream device here.

There are a whole bunch of people, myself included who are just about ready to pull the trigger on the Vaio Duo 13 but are waiting for a little while longer to see if anything awesome comes out of the woodwork.

I can dream haha

 

Lenovo rep said Haswell Yoga = late 2013.

 

Here's to an Intel wireless card with decent antennas! (hoping)

 

I get the high resolution obsession, but it should only be an option rather than having it as the base. The current Yoga is very attractively priced compared to other convertibles. Beyond 1080p you are talking $200 or more to the system cost and sacrifice in battery life. The focus should be more towards better color reproduction and contrast instead.

The trend towards Ultrabooks and Convertibles should be really good systems in the $899-999 not having its prices set to the stratosphere.

Marketing lingo for "and" really means "or". So you either get the better quality with same energy use or lower energy use with same quality.

Ideally:

-2.5 pounds or less for Tablet use
-Core i5 U not Y
-Dual Channel Memory with LPDDR3
-Connected Standby
-$999

 

IntelUser, you are 100% right!!

 

Oh, I would absolutely wait--not even just for the Yoga to release, but the slew of others. When 8.1 releases (some people say between now and September), we'll see the Ultrabook 2.0: they'll hopefully incorporate IGZO, self-panel refresh (another battery saving technology Intel wants in these, Smart Touch (dynamically resize 13.3" to 11.6" via software bezels -> perfect for convertibles), the minimum of 9 hours of idle time, 7 days of standby, and 6 hours of HD playback, etc. See here:



If you can wait a few weeks, by all means, do it. Designing laptops with "just" Haswell is easy. Designing a Ultrabook 2.0 (my term, but there are many updated Ultrabook requirements) is hard--it's taking the OEMs time, so that's probably why we haven't heard anything yet.

That is actually guaranteed. Haswell Ultrabooks (if they are called that) must include "Robust WiFi" and WiDi ( http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/01/intel-haswell-launch/). Technically, a few Broadcom chipsets support WiDi, but it's *much* more likely they'll use one of the dozen Intel chipsets that support WiDi.

Now, Intel defines "Robust" as 2:2x2, so better wireless is DEFINITELY in store for the Yoga 13 ( http://www.anandtech.com/show/7047/the-haswell-ultrabook-review-core-i74500u-tested).

Connected standby (or Intel's Smart Connect, which is basically that) is a requirement, 7 days minimum.

The higher resolution: well, the IGZO displays actually use less power, even at a higher resolution. Of course, you're right: they could just up the brightness for "super-bright" and use the same power.

I don't think Lenovo will go backwards from IPS on the updated Yoga. I guess they could tweak it more, but, IMO, I never had any issues with color reproduction (just an average user). Contrast: that would be stellar. I'd prefer that, actually, even more than color reproduction! IMO, Lenovo should borrow Apple's displays...

Why is single-channel memory so bad? Are we really memory bandwidth starved here? If they can save money on that, I think it's perfectly fine.

I agree on the rest of those, though.

 

It doesn't say anything for "Connected Standby". The one they are referring is lot relaxed version of it. The only Ultrabook that meets such requirement is Sony's Vaio Duo 13, and one reason is because it uses LPDDR3 memory(which costs a bit more). LPDDR3 offers 1/8th standby power and ~15% less power in active compared to DDR3L.

In fact, earlier Intel requirements stated that Connected Standby isn't a necessary feature of it, and only higher versions will have it. That means you'll rely on much more crippled version via other techniques like Smart Connect(technically they have Smart Connect for CS systems as well, but its lot better). You'll need to rely on Intel drivers rather than being integrated into the OS, it'll last less on standby, and it'll take longer to wake up.

Yes, it is for graphics(its not like its 0% impact for CPU either, its small but its there). Dual channel equipped ones are 30-50% faster than single channel ones. The Duo 13 proves you don't need two sticks to do it when its soldered on. It's enough to knock a full class down. Imagine you spent $300 extra to get 4650U for HD 5000 graphics. Single channel on that means you'll be at HD 4000 levels. Now tell me about saving money.

Let's put it this way. I'd like IGZO on a 1080p display so the battery gain is even better! Plus super high res displays add extra $200 to the price which is undesirable considering the tradeoffs(battery life).

I forgot about the digitizer well. Perhaps Yoga being targeted to consumers and with no mention of having digitizer at IDF means I may have to look elsewhere.

(BTW, screw the HD 5000 graphics, if it offers comprehensive Configurable TDP options like the Vaio Duo 13. Basically, I want a fully integrated, non-detachable convertible that's by Lenovo and has all the advantages of the Duo 13 and better wireless)

 

Oh, so they are different technologies. I was under the impression that one enabled the other. So, you are using at the Connected Standby flag, like the one noted here?

http://ultrabooknews.com/2013/05/15...and-check-for-connected-standby-on-windows-8/

Looking at the specifications, Microsoft wants 0.3% battery drain per hour for Connected Standby, which is pretty strict. I presume Intel's is worse?

Oh, right...well, I'm not gaming on an Ultrabook. And, if someone's paying $300 extra on a laptop for somewhat better iGPU performance, I don't think they're buying the right kind of laptop.

Nonetheless, Sony's implementation looks awesome. Intel did some weird magic a few years ago to get in between single and dual channel performance with a single stick, but this "wire as two" technique sounds like the real deal.

I would consider 1080p, but then the scaling is a non-integer of the wonderful 1600 x 900 resolution. From what I've read, Windows 8.1's DPI scaling is hardly better.

But, yes, if Lenovo could "borrow" some of Sony's features, I'd be happy.

 

It would be wrong to say Intel's version, aka Smart Connect is worse, but it is different. Smart Connect was first devised with the Sandy Bridge based Ultrabooks, which doesn't have true instant-on, but a faster version of traditional sleep + ability to wake itself up in periodically to connect to the internet and update. Now it was same with Ivy Bridge, even though Windows 8 supported Connected Standby, the hardware couldn't. Haswell U and Y platforms can, so it can solely rely on Window 8's CS, while previous platforms needed Smart Connect.

In Haswell U and Y, I believe they'll segregate into CS supporting systems in mid and high end Ultrabooks, while low end(which is still a lot better than predecessors)gets Smart Connect. The high end can use Smart Connect too, it'll just be faster and use less power due to the systems also supporting CS.

Yea, I think Sony's implementation is only doable because its soldered on, and they can wire it any way they want. Forget about that on systems that you can swap out sticks. I just don't like sacrificing on RAM when its really cheap nowadays. It should be one part manufacturers don't skimp on in a system costing $999 or more like the Yoga.

I'd be fine with 1600x900, as long as the colors are better. 1366x768 I agree is gross, but 1600x900 with brilliant colors and contrast would be a-ok to me.

 

I bought a Yoga 13 with 256 ssd and 4 gb ram, but now I'm thinking I should take it back and wait for the next. I have about a week to decide.

 

Hi, Just created an account to post here..

What do You guys think could be the possible Yoga 13 Haswell Unveil date and place?

IFA in Berlin 6-10th of September??

Are there any other bigger events September-Oktober-November where they could unveil it??

I have already transferred funds to my paypal account so I can hit BUY the second it comes out! Why the Haswell? well I want the 13 screen but with the battery life of the 11S (or more). Since the Haswell will cost the same money ~1000€ I´d rather wait 1-2months and have the ultimate version and enjoy it for the next 3 years.



:: Written with my old "battleship" Lenovo S205 :: (Which has lasted surprisingly well)

 

Ill say November possibly December.

 

That sucks, I need one now. My computer died in April and I've been borrowing one, but have to give it back. I guess I'll stick with the one I bought.

 

You know, IFA makes a lot of sense. 8.1 hasn't even RTM'd yet, but I imagine they would like to launch with that. While we joke about the Surface RT not selling well, I feel pretty confident the rest of the manufacturers have lots of Ivy Bridge leftovers that they would like to move.

I guess the whole back to school launch was too optimistic. Most people start high school and college on the next two weeks if they haven't already in the US.

And,I just realized: it would look very weird to launch the new Ultrabooks with 8.1 before the general public had access to 8.1. That means, at the earliest, it would launch on October 17th.

 

Well, the Yoga13 was one of the few Windows 8 convertibles to actually launch on Windows 8 release day last year... so here's to hoping.

Although I'm sure information on the new one would have leaked by now.

It could become available for pre-order like the Yoga did... if that's so, let me save a lot of heartache and warn everyone to not pre-order from Lenovo directly if you want it quickly.

 

Go on....

Widespread or anecdotal? I bet there's an old launch thread on her somewhere.

 

It was widespread... Lenovo.com even said "Ships within four weeks" on all Yoga13 orders at release date. I ended up cancelling my order and going to BestBuy and picking one up. I heard many people had to wait 8 weeks, and aparently that's the norm for Lenovo. Here's a thread that talks about it on release date:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/ideapad-essential/640537-ideapad-yoga-31.html

So, if a Haswell comes out and it's on Amazon or Newegg, jump on those for your order if time is essential.

 

I doubt I could get the new one for what I paid for the one I have, so I think I am just going to enjoy this one. I'll wish I had the newer screen, haswell, and backlit keyboard, but it's not like those are needs. This one is still a great computer.

 

Oh, gosh. Well, that's disappointing. Isn't a pre-order supposed to prevent that? Man. Hmm, I do want the extended warranty, which probably means Lenovo.com -- thanks for the link. I'll investigate further!

It definitely is--the best Ultrabook out, in my opinion. And, like I do with all technology I buy and then an newer version comes out: can it still do all the things it could yesterday? Yup. Really, it's a laptop, not a defining aspect of our lives: go do on it all the fun things you wanted to do with it!

 

You can purchase elsewhere and still extend the warranty through Lenovo.com... I've done that twice now, and it worked flawlessly. Lenovo Support - Upgrade or Extend Your Warranty (US)

 

May I ask what kind of battery life You get from Your Yoga 13? Is it a I3/5/7?

I know there is a lot of information with regards to battery life of the 13" Yoga but just wanted to get a fresh opinion...

Value for money, I think it never makes sense to buy an "update" on a model You just recently bought (even when its 1 year old)... I try to buy the "newest" tech there is, with an optimal price/value ratio and then stick with it. Like this Lenovo Ideapad S205, I bought it when only one store in Germany sold it, bought it for dirt cheap under 400€ even though it was brand new on the market, and it still serves me well with over 4h battery life in mixed use + I can play Full HD over the HDMI cable which is was why I bought this little thing in the first place.

I think the Win 8.1 launch date could be a realistic, not too optimistic, launch for the Haswell Yoga update as well. BTW, which source tells normally first about "Lenovo" unveils and new products?

 

Oh, that's fantastic! Thank you for the info.

 

This great deal has to be a sign of inventory reduction.... Haswell model incoming!
Lenovo IdeaPad Yoga 13 59359567 Ultrabook Convertible Laptop Computer With 133 Touch Screen Display 3rd Gen Intel Core i5 Processor by Office Depot $799

 

Hmmm. I was looking at the U430 Touch but may instead look into the Yoga 13 once they start coming out with Haswell.

So it's the U processor we want and not the Y, correct?

 

Yep. U is low powered, Y is Ultra-low powered.

However, i do think the Core i5 4200Y ( ARK | Intel® Core) will sneak itself on the Yoga

 

Thanks Jobine. Is the Y that slow compared to the U? I wonder if I can convince my daughter to opt for this instead of a Macbook Air.

I'd rather go with a touch screen, especially in this form factor. Just not sure what the Windows app store ecosystem is like since I've only tried it on a W8 phone.

 

.2ghz difference between stock clocks of the U and Y CPU's, however the U can turbo to 2.6 while the Y can only turbo up to 1.9. Also, the Y has a TDP of 11 Watts while the U has a TDP of 15W.

Source: Intel Core i5 4200Y vs 4200U

About the real-life performance, i have no clue, but i know that laptops with stock clocks under 2GHz will have a hard time doing some simpler tasks, and the fact that the Y can't Turbo past 1.9 doesn't help.

U430 > MBAir, the U430 packs a Nvidia 730M under it's slim profile , however the 730M models havent been released yet from what i know.

 

I forgot one more thing!

The 4200Y packs the iHD 4200. The 4200U packs the iHD 4400.

This makes a world of difference. Lets hope for the U!

 

Jobine, between the U430 and upcoming Yoga 13 Haswell, the latter with IPS and various form factors, will hands down be the better choice correct?

 

(this is 100% opinion, you do not have to agree with me)

The apps on the windows 8 store, in my opinion, are a bit lackluster, which makes the whole concept of the Yoga a bit useless, not really bashing MS or anything, but a u430/u330 touch would probably be better suited to your needs. If you need a boost of power, theres also the Y410P. I like the innovation in the yoga, but in terms of actual practicality, it boils down being too heavy for a tablet, yet too small to be a laptop.

 

Just to give some data here on an Ivy Bridge 1.9GHz (no Turbo): Intel Core i3 3227U Notebook Processor - NotebookCheck.net Tech

Using the Cinebench R10 scores, it runs as fast as the fastest laptop processor in 2007. I think laptops in 2007 were running simple tasks pretty solidly. If they're editing pictures or unzipping archives all day, it'll be slower than other computers. But, I doubt most consumers could tell a difference unless it's side by side.

 

Meh. Got an old pentium laptop, plenty for daily tasks. Just dont play games on it, thats all Xd

Really depends on what you do. I also forgot that newer processors have HT and the likes. Still U > Y, well worth 4 watts.

 

Right! Yes, the fastest Y maxes out at 1.4GHz, which will probably be noticeably slow.

I just wanted to point out that GHz doesn't mean anything what it used to mean. Makes our lives pretty confusing.

 

If both processors have the same number of cores, same microarchitecture, etc. , then GHz would be the determining factor, on top of that the U CPU's have better GPU clocks too.

Reminds me of the time Intel released Willamette P4 and it was slower than the Tualatin P3... But with their GHz advertising, they got tons of people into buying them

 

I think October 18th is essentially the release date, considering this message from Microsoft:

" Only sharing RTM code with OEMs is really about optimizing the overall experience for our customers—putting our hardware partners in a position to prepare the variety of new and innovative devices consumers and businesses can expect later this Fall just in time for holiday. While our partners prepare their exciting new devices, we’ll stay close to them and continue to refine Windows 8.1 to ensure a quality experience at general availability for customers on October 18th."

I got worried when I read "holiday", but then they point back to 10/18.

http://feedly.com/k/1fhQay8

 

Good news for Yoga fans



+Lenovo rep lied to me AGAIN

 

That's the release date for Windows 8.1, but may have no bearing on Lenovo's plan for the Yoga.

If anything, we'll find out next week from IFA 2013 news IFA 2013: what to expect from this year's show | News | TechRadar

 

Right, but Microsoft states the preparation of new devices for the 8.1 release.

But, right, IFA should let us know for real.

 

It's called the Yoga 2, with at least a Pro version: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/ideapad/yoga/yoga-2-pro/?redir=y

Also confirmed with a Lenovo rep to be released in October. Thank you to tman2damax11 and tomtomek on Lenovo's forums for breaking this news. http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/IdeaPad-IdeaTab-Slate-Tablets/Haswell-in-Yoga-13/td-p/1107091/page/2