Yoga 2 Pro Release Thread

I completely agree. I'm currently using the Zenbook prime with 1920x1080 for work, and it's really difficult on a 13.3 inch screen. I'm excited to test out the 200% scaling in 8.1 though. For email and web surfing, I felt the Yoga's screen was the best most comfortable I've used.

 

#51: actually, windows 8.1 will support scaling up to 500% ( Configure DPI Settings in Windows 8.1 Using Registry) - the issue remains applications that doesnt support scaling (besides draining the battery faster etc.)

/BS

 

I don't think there is standardized brightness measuring between manufacturers...

I use 150% scaling on my Dell L702x and out of the hundreds of programs installed, only three have any issues with DPI scaling: Virtuous Ten Studio (indie developer), iTunes, and Prayer Times PC Pro (small developer). The worst was iTunes, where all the options were slightly too large and thus cut off. However, @ 200%, these may be exacerbated. I would never use a high-resolution display at 100% scaling; on my 17" 1080p, 125% was actually the default!

I'm not defending Lenovo's decision, but let's have a reasonable discussion. Now, Andrew Cunningham doesn't list what applications he had issues with: "Some applications just look blurry, some are crisp but exhibit odd rendering problems, and others ignore the scaling settings entirely." Just scroll to the bottom--the first 3/4, he talks about using multiple monitors with different DPI scaling, which does seem poor, but not something I would have an issue with. Again, as someone who uses 150% scaling on a daily basis, over 99% of my programs had no issues.

Really, I was afraid when I realized 125% scaling on my L702x was still too small; but, 150% has been working fantastically. I actually forgot I was using 150% until you mentioned it.

If you want me to test a certain application at 150%, give me the name and I'll try to test it.

 

Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro Performance Test - Intel Haswell U4200 Processor - YouTube

Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro Performance Test

 

Nice, just saw this!

The overview:

SSD is nice, definitely SATA III:

Sequential: 500MB/s read, 256MB/s write
512K: 423MB/s read, 249MB/s write
4K: 28MB/s read, 71MB/s write
4K QD32: 281MB/s read, 241MB/s write

These scores aren't PCIe-level, though, so if it was crucial that you transfer many GBs @ 800MB/s, the Yoga 2 Pro won't do it for you. But, for the rest of us "plebians," it's mighty fast.

CPU: it shows an i5-4200U
GPU (HD 4400): Cinebench score is ~ NVIDIA GT 640M

 

Will we be able to upgrade RAM and the SSD by ourselves in these?

Thx

 

Ram is almist certant soldered. Ssd should be upgradable.

 

I think one thing to take into consideration is that the Retina Macbooks also ran into the display scaling issue when they were first released. However, as software vendors caught on, they started updating their software to deal better with essentially double(/quadruple) the resolution. I am hoping/assuming that the same happens on the Windows side, albeit perhaps at a bit slower rate, now that there are a number of manufacturers releasing high-resolution screens. One thing to keep in mind is that it's very difficult to upgrade the hardware, as opposed to software, so I don't see future-proofing in this regard as a negative.

 

Does anyone know if the 512G SSD storage option in yoga 2 pro is on one single drive of 512G or a set of 2*256G? since the original yoga13 has 2 mSATA connectors. i worry because from a youtube video i saw, it shows that samsung is providing the SSDs for yoga 2 pro, and the largest SSD they put in their own flagship ATIV 9+ is only 256G. i have an Acer s7-391 with 256G actually consist of two 128G in RAID0, so i have a C drive and a D drive with about 113G usable apiece, and i really prefer one single drive or a managable partition of a smaller C for windows and applications and a larger D for data storage. if it is a single 512G SSD, i'll be preordering one the first moment i see it become available. after been using T series thinkpad for so many years i'm ready for something colorful and slim now, may miss the track point a little. i hope the stated 9hrs of battery life is indeed close to real world use, and hope the off center touchpad is not a problem while typing, since the right hand palm might touch the top right corner of touchpad.

 

at least you should be able to upgrade the SSD if it is still standard mSATA.

 

What is the graphics card for the i7 model? Definitely not dedicated, but is it perhaps better than an HD 4400?
I wish more ultrabooks had Iris like the UX301 but it will be way out of my price range

I do some CAD work (FRC robotics) but need something slim, and no one has really pulled through on this yet

The T440s did not meet expectations due to it's graphics. A real pity.

Now I'm hoping on this, the UX301, HP zbook 14, U430 touch, and the t440p

 

some people are speculating that there could be yoga 2, not yoga 2 pro, with different config and resolution. So do you know anything?

 

That's doesn't sound like a proper RAID on your Acer. I don't think Lenovo creates extra partitions just for data (and hopefully they learned from the Yoga 13's partition craziness). So, even if it is RAID, you should be OK.

Newer touchpads have palm rejection. Or have you adjusted those settings and it still hasn't worked?

Nobody knows. If you want upgraded graphics, you want a ix-4x5x CPU. They are the only ones with the HD 5000 series.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell (microarchitecture)

I know just as much as you concerning any Yoga 2, haha. It's possible....

 

Funny I thought I remember there being a vanilla Yoga 2 when first announced but maybe I'm confusing it with the Thinkpad Yoga. Loved the original Yoga but for many of the issues addressed in the Yoga 2 Pro, except lack of 5 GHz wireless band. I opted for the X1 Carbon Touch because work was a priority but I do miss the entertainment side which the Yoga 2 should excel at, so I'm very interested.

 

So, I've skipped a bit in this thread but, when is the Yoga 2 Pro coming out in the USA? Any idea?

 

October 18th!

 

This thing won't hold up under extensive CAD use, I'd go for the T440p (actually I am planning on buying it unless the T440s comes with dGPU). The T440p should have a long life under heavy use and feature many benefits over other options (quad core, dGPU, FHD display, 4 USB 3.0 ports, cars readers, docking station, ultrabay/expansion for extra SSD/HDD).

 

Confirmed info from Lenovo's webpage:

http://www.lenovo.com/shop/emea/content/pdf/IdeaPad/Yoga/en/ideapad-yoga2-pro-datasheet.pdf

CPU:
Intel® Core™ i7-4500U Processor
Intel® Core™ i5-4200U Processor
Intel® Core™ i3-4010U Processor

RAM
Up to 8GB DDR3L 1600 MHz, 1 SO-DIMM slot (2GB / 4GB / 8GB)

Graphics
Integrated Intel® HD graphics 4400

 

Also specified battery life:
>=9 hrs Windows 8 Idle @150 nits
>=6 hrs FHD playback @ 150 nits

 

Awesome. So everything has been confirmed except a price and release date. Can't wait!

 

Thanks, mates. OP is updated.

I like everything, except that the Datasheet shows only B/G/N as an option. But, it could be a typo, as they listed 2GB RAM as an option, which is hard to believe.

 

A single band wireless NIC is probably a done deal for the configuration, it is an IdeapadPad and not a ThinkPad. The only negative of the original that didn't get "fixed" as far as I'm concerned.

 

The data sheet said "Up to 8GB DDR3L 1600 MHz, 1 SO-DIMM slot (2GB / 4GB / 8GB)"

I think that means the slot can accept a 2, 4, or 8 GB stick. I can't imagine Lenovo would ship the Yoga 2 Pro with 2 GB of RAM.

 

Huh, 1 DIMM slot means single channel memory. That probably explains why the Cinebench GL score is pretty high while the 3DMark 11 is low. 3DMark11 is closer to a game and is actually memory bandwidth sensitive while Cinebench GL is lot less sensitive to memory BW.

Leaning even more to Thinkpad Yoga. Come on, Core i5 with 9 hours with battery life and its mine...

 

That's true...I don't think the WLAN card is user-replaceable. For my house, there are too many 2.4GHz devices for 5GHz devices to be useful (on my Linksys E4200, enabling both 2.4GHz and 5GHz kills performance). And 2.4GHz WiFi isn't going away any time soon.

Really, it's the 2x2:2 WiFi that's important and that still seems likely, as long as Lenovo is calling this an Ultrabook.

Ah, that actually makes a lot more sense. Edited OP.

Sony did dual-channel with one slot by wiring it as two channels. I don't know yet whether Lenovo was smart enough to do that, though.

I looked at the Thinkpad Yoga and I wish it came it a bigger screen. 13.3" is my minimum and 12.5" is too small.

 

I mentioned this in the ThinkPad Yoga thread. If some or all of the RAM is soldered, it can still be dual channel. (All is not the case, but some of it can be)

BUT, your 3DMark 11 score explanation makes sense. The Sony Vaio Pro 13 which has soldered dual-channel memory gets 791 in 3DMark 11 - While the Yoga Pro 2 got 681 in the MobileGeeks.de video, which is the lowest of any HD 4400 I could find. The Basic version of 3DMark 11 doesn't run at full resolution, so that doesn't play a factor here, although I think basic does offer both 1024x768 and 1024x600.

The only explanation is:

• Preproduction Hardware issues or drivers
• HD4400 in Yoga 2 Pro is underclocked or limited for whatever reason.
• Single Channel RAM
• I'm comparing a 1024x768 score to 1024x600 scores. (doubt it)

The more I read about the Yoga line the more I feel like I should just get a T440s.

Edit: I thought I had previously read that the Yoga 2 Pro had soldered on-board RAM, but now my searches are coming up empty. All I can find is mention of a single SO-DIMM slot, which is quite disheartening. - I guess I am getting the T440s after all.

 

The Thinkpad Yoga is very tempting, especially with the digitizer pen. But I'm still going for the Yoga 2 Pro for the simple fact it's 0.5 lbs lighter. 3.1 lb. is the same weight of the Yoga 11S (which I was super close to buying...glad I held out for Haswell upgrade). The light weight let's the Yoga serve as a pseudo-tablet, which is the entire point of the Yoga line.

Hypothetically, I would buy Thinkpad yoga over a Yoga 2 Pro if it weighed 3.1 lb. without the lift & lock keyboard mechanism. As cool as the keyboard is, it's not worth an extra 0.5 lb.

I think most of us won't notice the single channel RAM. You can still do some light gaming on the Yoga 2 Pro (I checked the specs and it should be able to run Grim Dawn and SC II). We'll see how the fulls reviews go.

 

If I remember correctly, the original Yogapad could do light gaming like FIFA and Civilization. So, I definitely think the Yoga Pro 2 can hold it's own. I'm just wondering when the reviews for this will come out?

 

New Yoga 13 and Yoga 2 Pro comparison by Mobilegeeks. Although I don't think she worked Hidpi mode right though.
You're suppose to scale the text and not the resolution.

The shock is the battery life, 6 and 1/2 hours? As noted, it was a preproduction unit.But that's a bit low for Haswell. Either way, it wasn't a sophisticated test as much as it was a rough estimate of using the computer here and there.

 

Thanks for posting that... she is great. For the record, Nicole has been using the original Yoga13 as her daily driver, so her point of view is a really good one.

 

The power efficiency gains of Haswell will be taken by the very high res screen, so I expect battery life to be almost a wash when compared to the original Yoga.

I'm now more interested in the Surface Pro 2 as I am looking for something very different from my X1CT and since it is a pound lighter and offers a/b/g/n WiFi even though it is on the pricey side.

 

The panel is no excuse for poor battery life. The ativ 9plus easily achieves over 8 and a half.

 

In her comparison between the two, I am taking her advice seriously. I've actually never seen a Yoga 13 in person, (Only the 11 w/ Tegra) so it's kind of like I'm getting a two for one.

The only problem is she's really excited about her original Yoga, which while great, it adds some bias. (Not that she's trying to be bias)

I hear a lot of Yoga owner's loving their device, but when you drop $1000 on something, you try and convince yourself it's worth it. It's kind of like how everyone jokes that Apple owners are in cult, they love Apple devices. The truth is, it goes both ways. I own an HTC phone and am a little bias towards HTC. (Where's 4.2 update HTC!?) And I keep buying HTC products even though every two years I get a phone that I find huge flaws in. (I still love it though...)

Her review is great and it was a good inside scoop, but I really want an "outside" scoop now. I'd like to see the 2 Pro compared to the Vaio 13, AB9+ and MBA 2013. Hopefully we see something before October 18, but I'm starting to itch here. (I have a problem, I know)

This is how I feel. The 9+ gets 8h 44m, ( Engadget) 20 minutes more than 1080p screens, (VAIO Pro) so why is the Yoga getting ~5:30/6 total, or ~3 less. Haswell is suppose to be the biggest step up in power efficiency in Intel's history, so why is such a remarkable achievement a lack-lust flop on Lenovo's part? Maybe they cut the battery capacity to save on weight? I don't get it.

I have a good feeling that Nicole had the brightness at 350nits the entire time she used the 2 Pro, thus draining the battery life at a high rate. So maybe that's why she got such a lower number. But I can only assume she uses her Yoga 13 in the same way she got 5 hours.

I thinking of giving up on this whole "convertible" form factor. The Dell XPS 12 looks nice, but it's heavier than 2 Pro, the hinge is a little odd and I'm not that big on Dell. (I really want a Lenovo keyboard) The AB9+ is really nice, but its crazy expensive. The 8GB 256SSD version has popped up for $1700, which is what I'd like, but that's outside my price range and the screen, like the 2 Pro, has some issues. The Vaio 13 is cheaper, but not by much once I get 8GB and a 256SSD. Adding in touch and that's ~$1600ish. - The last option is the most affordable and well specc'd. The MBA... Although I'd like a 1080p screen because I do web development and I like to see native resolution screen sizes.

I really wanted touch to start developing Windows 8 apps or HIDPI to test my mediaqueries versus just "believing" they work, but everything is flawed or expensive or missing something important.

I say all this now, but I still want the 2 Pro :/

 

Nice video-thanks for the link. Great to see all the improvements. Some quick notes:

1) Her mouse speed issues might be mitigated by mouse acceleration, which I don't think she had turned on (but it's hard to see the screen clearly). EDIT: she replied to my YouTube comment. Yup, it was on already. Darn, DPI scaling is the only solution I've found, then.

2) She didn't change the DPI, as far as I know. That would've been my first step if things were small or my mouse didn't move fast enough.

3) Her battery life: she was USING the laptop, guys. Engadget's "8 hours and 44 minutes" on the Samsung ATIV 9+ is with a video rundown! Those (normal usage vs. video rundown) are COMPLETELY different...not even close. Lenovo already told us the Yoga 2 Pro has 6 hours of a video rundown. For me, I like real-world usage numbers, but maybe the video rundown time is indicative....unsure!

EDIT: No, it looks I'm wrong. Video run-down is indicative of high usage: http://www.computershopper.com/insi...laptops/computer-shopper-battery-rundown-test

See note 3 above.

See note 3 above.

--

For me, the Yoga series has the perfect form factor. I've never used it for a long time (just a few times at Best Buy, playing with the Yoga 13), but it just gets it right. Every other "convertible" is weak, in my opinion. The stand mode is perfection. You can't get that type of functionality in any other convertible.

~Ibrahim~

 

If the keyboard and touchpad are important to you at all, Lenovo is the way to go.

I own the Yoga13 and the Asus Zenbook Prime Touch. The Zenbook is fully alluminum, a little better build quality, but the Yoga has a MUCH Better keyboard and touchpad. I also work closely with someone who has the Samsung Series 9, it's keyboard is poor also. IMHO, the Yoga13 is the most comfortable laptop I've ever used, and I power through laptops like new cellphones, at least one new one a year. BTW, Dell's keyboards are pretty good also, I've used the XPS 13 extensively and it's comforable, but not sure about the 12.5 convertible.

One thing that's never been mentioned.. screen brightness. The Yoga has the widest range of options for your screen brightness... from 0% off to 100% bright it's a very slow and gradual smooth process. Dell and Asus have screens that jump brightness levels without as much customization. My Zenbook is 350nits 1920x1080, the Yoga13 is 350nits 1600x900 and I really feel Lenovo's is better quality... just my opinion, and I have them side by side.

 

First, thanks for the credit in your original post! Didn't have to, so I appreciate it.

1 & 2) It's 100% the scaling. She responded to my questions as well and told me she had issues with scaling so she turned it off. It wasn't consistent enough for her. Some apps do not recognize or understand the new HiDpi mode.

I've been reading the Samsung Ativ Book 9+ forums and a lot of the people there are switching their resolution from 3200px to 1920px because they're encountering the same problem as Nicole. Even apps with Hidpi support like Chrome Canary and IE11 have issues.

The bottom line? Windows 8.1 doesn't fix scaling for Hidpi screens, it gives developers the ability to scale their applications to Hidpi screens properly. So it's 100% up to developers to support these new devices with high resolution screens.

I'm probably going to have to do the same if I get the Y2P, as I live in Chrome. (I program for the web)

--

I need to get a little more realistic with my hopes for battery life. I know this is a bad example, but after reading the first Haswell reviews of the MBA getting 12 hours with light web browsing I've since assumed that other ultrabooks should be capable of this under the right circumstances. Yes, Windows 8 is less efficient than OSX concerning battery, the resolution is lower on the MBA and it doesn't have a touchscreen, but I was expecting more than the ~10% to 15% increase with the Yoga 2 Pro. (The MBA got ~35% on light web browsing and about 13h on a video run down)

But again, the MBA only saw a ~7% increase on battery with heavy workload. Review I'm using for comparison.

/end bad comparison.

Either way, that was pretty stupid of me to compare the video run down to real world usage. I think I need to see both to get a better estimate. It just bugs me seeing the MBA getting 13 hours a video loop test and the Y2P getting 6...
(Testing methodology may be different, so still a bad comparison)

Still better than my netbook.

Keyboard is number 1.
All I do all day is "Clack clack clack," so keyboard matters. So much so, that I go to Reddit /r/mechanicalkeyboards almost daily. That's the main reason I've set my heart on Lenovo. I've also heard good things about their trackpad. The fact that the drivers have been refined for the Y2P is also great to hear.

I think a milk carton has a higher quality display than what I currently use on my netbook. I mean, it's alright, but that's for its class. (1024x600 matte)My only worry is that I'll be going from matte to glass if I go the Y2P route

Serious question. Yoga aside, how is it using Windows 8 as a tablet? That's my biggest deciding factor as of now. I've never used Windows 8 with touch extensively. I'm also deeply embeded in the Google ecosystem and I know they're refusing to release Windows 8 apps and are fighting Microsoft on anything Windows Phone.

I've read about how the App store is a mess and how the majority of apps are terrible and low quality. But I feel like it'd be a waste to buy a ultrabook that I'll be using for 5 years without touch if that's the direct Microsoft is pushing their OS. It's either the Y2P or I forget touch and go with the Lenovo t440s.

(I'm not comparing the two, touch is just a deciding factor. I'd rather save the weight and battery life on the t440s and skip touch if I get it)

Thanks!

 

B3RL1N: BTW, its important to remember the Vaio Pro only has a 36WHr battery. The fact that it achieves 8 hour battery with that is remarkable. The previous Samsung 9 had 50WHr battery or something.

That makes the Lenovo one quite poor, because the Yoga 2 Pro has the same Whr as the Yoga, which is 54WHr.

dan76: I have the XPS 12. The keyboard is fantastic. I tried "clacking" the keyboard a bit on the Best Buy's Yoga 13 and 11, and even the Vaio Pro. It doesn't come close. The feedback and accuracy is very nice on the XPS 12. Remember that when I moved to the XPS 12, my primary computer has been a desktop computer with full keyboard(not those Chiclet ones).

Battery life: Haswell can be quite good on battery life, and Yoga 2 Pro needs an official review, as I feel the video review is too simple. Based on what the Lenovo rep has been saying, I'm optimistic it'll be better than that.

But it seems Sony is pretty good at designing efficient Haswell systems. The Duo 13 achieves 9-10 hour battery life.* If it wasn't for the price, Sony's questionable brand, and the WiFi issues the Duo 13 would have been one for me.

Oh well it looks like I might have to see how XPS 11's keyboard is.

*Also, LPDDR3 is quite important on the battery part it seems. LPDDR3 allows ~15% lower active power use and 1/7th power use in suspend, which is important for features like Connected Standby. The only LPDDR3 featuring devices I know is the MacBook Air and Vaio Duo 13, which coincidentally are in the top of efficiency category.

 

ikjadoon could you plz take a look at my thread? I desperately need your help, will just be 2 mins, thx!
http://forum.notebookreview.com/dell-xps-studio-xps/733718-dell-studio-xps-y517r-motherboard-compatible-y507r.html#post9394076
Sorry for the inconvenince, hope not to be disturbing

 

Yeah, no problem. I would've never found that video!

The 3200x1800: ugh, well, if even other laptop owners are having the problem, why didn't they just enlarge the touchpad? That's a big usability misstep, at least for me, as I'll use the touchpad 80% of the time. An external mouse defeats the portability an Ultrabook is supposed to have. I haven't found anyone who's tried the new 200% scaling option. I bet there are some graphical quirks, but I'd like to know how big they are.

Well, I think I was completely wrong about the video being different. It turns out that it's actually close to a high-usage scenario (I expected it to be much less), as stated here. Huh..I can't extrapolate well enough from her testing and Engadget's, but my rough estimate is that during *normal* usage, it should last more than 6 hours (assuming battery is better than Yoga 13; if the Yoga 13 got 5h 32m in a high-usage scenario, we can expect the Yoga 2 Pro to last longer in the same scenario; and then in normal usage, we should expect even longer than the run-down).

The MBA w/ Haswell has amazing battery life, especially compared to the Ivy Bridge model. It shames all Haswell and Ivy Bridge PCs. I think, though, that you're right. We'll need a Yoga 2 Pro review by Engadget to see how it really turns up. Nicole's numbers are low, but it was pre-production, so maybe there was some bug somewhere. Or, Lenovo just threw away a year's worth of CPU architecture.

A 36WHr? Darn, that's impressive. Two USB 3.0, a PCIe SSD, a full-sized HDMI port--seems like Sony is really competing with Apple.

Wow, 15% lower active power use with LPDDR3? That's ridiculously awesome; that should be standard.

 

I didn't realize the battery was so small on the Vaio Pro 13. Like you said, it's a nice machine, but then there's the WiFi problems, (This seems to be an Intel driver problem) a medium quality keyboard and CPU/GPU has a lower clock than normal. The latter probably helps a lot with battery life, nor is it really something that you'll really notice in normal usage.
It's still a really nice machine. If I was to get an ultrabook and wanted maximum portability, I'd get the Vaio Pro 13. The Duo is a great machine, but the form factor weirds me out.

I was highly considering the XPS 12 until the Y2P was announced. Its design is very "different," but it's a solid device none the less. The benchmarks are good, battery life is awesome and it even comes with an HD 5000 on its enterprise model. The weight is a little up there for a tablet, but is average for an ultrabook. I've wondered about the keyboard, so thanks for your input. The only thing I can't get around is the awful font they used. At least it isn't Comic Sans... (Kidding)

I never looked up the DDR3 vs DDR3L power efficiency difference. I knew it was more efficient, but those numbers are actually pretty significant! Especially while the computer's suspended.

I asked dan76 this, but you also have a convertible, so I'll ask you as well. How well does Windows 8 work as a tablet? I'm on the fence about Touch and Windows 8. I worry that buying a W8 ultrabook without a Touch would be a waste. Especially since the "Metro" ecosystem will only improve with age.


Concerning the XPS 11, that keyboard is a tough call. It's pretty much a piece of plastic with letters on it. There's no tactic feedback whatsoever. It's a tablet first, laptop second, which is the opposite of the 12 or Yoga's laptop first, tablet second approach.

You have no idea how often I'm Googling information for the devices I'm interested in, haha. This has been a month long research project for me, so I really appreciate your thread listing everything in one place! It's helped a bunch.

The problem is mainly software related. Yesterday the XPS 15 was announced with a 3200x1800 and the Notebookreview hands-on found Windows 8.1 playing nice with its Hidpi display. Whether this is Dell's doing or Microsoft, I don't know. Chances are we're looking at newer version or maybe even a final RTM version of 8.1 - There's bound to be issues, but it shouldn't be as bad as what we're seeing with pre-builds or previews of Windows 8.1.

We're both, "right and wrong." Real world is going to be somewhere between the max of 9h and min of 5:30h, that's the best we can estimate until the Y2P comes out. Nicole certainly got the short end of the stick with her battery life, but we don't know what she was doing on her Yoga or what her settings were.
Like you said, we're just going to have to wait. (Something I'm having a hard time doing, lol)

 

Great question, and I suspect every user will give you a different answer.

I think Win8 Metro/Modern interface for touch is great! I first got the Yoga (on Windows 8 release day last year). There's definitely a learning curve. Once I learned and understood the gestures to swipe between apps, bring up the options and settings, etc, it's really fun and a pleasure to use. The Windows Store supposedly has over 100,000 apps now. For reading, browsing, using any of the Apps available, I'd say tablet mode in Win8 is really good.

That said, the Yoga13 is 3.5 lbs... compare that to a 10inch average tablet, and you're going to be tired after about 30 seconds of holding it. For me, the Yoga's real strength is in it's stand and presentation mode. I often have it in "presentation mode" on my lap on the couch reading and swiping between apps.

Most recently, my daughter has been playing tons of toddler games on it... she's 2 1/2 and has completely mastered Windows 8's moder/metro interface.

The big negative is when you need to get back to the "Desktop" or use a program that runs in Desktop mode, like Word, Excel, etc. While touch still works, it's just not practical. My Win8 use is split evenly between work and home. While at work, I stay in the desktop environment in desktop mode almost 100% of the time. I'm really looking forward to 8.1 making the transition between the two a little less jarring, and offering more flexibility with settings; like going back to Desktop after an app is closed, booting to Desktop, and simultaneous wallpaper backgrounds.

I bought the Asus Zenbook touch about a month ago... it's just a really nice touch enabled Win8 laptop, not a convertible. Because it's always in laptop mode, I find myself using the Metro/Modern touch interface much less. That really needs the convertible form factor that the Yoga and others offer.

One caveat and tip on browsing... I practically live in the Chrome browser... my work and personal email are Google, with all of Google Apps services, etc. BUT Chrome's metro touch interface completely sucks. I've found that Windows8 works better leaving IE as the default browser and what you get when you're in Metro/Modern with touch interface. IE10 and 11 are smooth as butter and really a pleasure to use in tablet mode. Leave Chrome for manual opening on the desktop when you really need to get serious work done.

To each their own... I imagine everyone's answer would be a little different. I hope this helps you!

 

Thanks for your input.

Everyone's going to have a different opinion, especially when it comes to something new, like touch on Windows. I'm just trying to get a general consensus.

The thing that worries me is even though there are 100k apps, there aren't many high quality or official apps. I use Android and while there are ton of apps in the play market, most of them are terrible or are just knock offs. I've learned to stick with a few good apps and using anything Google or "Official." (There are exceptions though)
But as you mentioned with Chrome and its problem with touch, Google isn't going to be giving much support to Windows 8. I too use Gmail and my life revolves around Google products. (It's a little scary how integrated I am) The lack of a native Gmail, Google Calendar or YouTube app is something I'm a bit worried about. I'm sure there are alternatives out there, so it may just be me getting use to them or using their web apps.

The highlights of the Yoga is stand and tent modes. Even though the 2 Pro is half a pound lighter than the original, it's still too heavy to carry with one hand for too long. (Or at all) I don't expect to be using Desktop mode with touch other than for gestures here and there, but even then hotkeys are quicker. Work will all be done is desktop and the ability to turn my laptop into a tablet is just nice plus. Putting it in tent mode and hooking up an Xbox controller to play video games also sounds like a really neat trick. The only downside is that integrated graphics will be hindered by Single Channel memory. If it wasn't for that, I'd be much happier with getting the Yoga 2 Pro.

Was there any special reason you picked up the Zenbook touch?

And yes, you did help! I'm not too worried about usability now. It's great to know that Windows 8 actually functions as a pretty decent tablet.

 

Your use sounds very similar to mine. I'm sure you would be very happy with the Yoga 2 Pro... it looks like a really awesome upgrade over the Yoga.

It's worth mentioning why I bought the Zenbook touch.

First of all, I found it on woot.com for $599... it retails for $1200, and I made an impulse buy because of the great deal. I've been aware of the Zenbook series for a while, I wanted to check it out and was especially interested in the backlit keyboard.

Secondly, having a light weight laptop is critical for my job, and I wanted a backup. As much as I love the Yoga and how great it's been for me, in the ten months I've owned it, I've had to send it in to the depot for repair THREE times. Twice for touchscreen failure, and once for motherboard problem... completely no power. Each time was a pretty good experience, but still took more than a week for turn around time. I've been active in the Yoga Owners thread http://forum.notebookreview.com/ideapad-essential/640537-ideapad-yoga-113.html since the beginning, and it sounds like my problems are pretty unique, but they were enough to warranty buying an additional backup laptop. It could be me being rough on it... I travel all over opening and closing the laptop probably a hundred times a day in different businesses, etc.

All that said.. the keyboard on the Zenbook is terrible compared to the Yoga... typing right now on the Zenbook. ...my wife is on the Yoga and won't let me have it back! So, the Yoga is awesome when it's working. I completely expect kinks to be worked out for the second generation.

 

I'll add... one of the main reasons I bought the original Yoga was that it has user upgradeable RAM and an empty mSata SSD slot. I immediately upgraded to 8gb and a second 128ssd.

Any word on whether or not the Yoga 2 Pro will have either? Nothing I've read says either way.

 

On the Yoga 2 Pro page at Lenovo.com they have an "ask a question" feature where the reps addressed the upgrade-ability: they said "Yoga 2 Pro is designed as an enclosed system to keep it lightweight and as thin as possible, so RAM and hard drive for it will not be swappable". But who knows if they really know?

The also said the Yoga 2 Pro would ship to Lenovo US on 29-Oct, that it would be available for order a week or two before that, and that it uses the Intel Wireless 7260 2X2 BGN card.

Again, I'm not sure how reliable this info is.

 

Dang, thought the release date was the 18th. May have to take a look at the XPS 15.

Sent from a different Galaxy using Tapatalk 2.

 

I've heard release date is the 18th... when 8.1 is released. Lenovo.com may have shipping dates of later in the month. There may be 3rd party retailers like Amazon and Newegg that have it also... Remember last year, BestBuy had a launch day exclusive...

Back to upgradeability, what you heard from a Lenovo rep about non-upgradeable was their official statement of the original Yoga also... there were 10 torx screws to get to the SSD, but an empty slot. SO, don't be discouraged until we see someone open it.

 

When I said that, I meant on a device level, not system. Meaning that difference is just for the memory.

It's important to note the difference between various DDR3 standards:
-DDR3
-DDR3L
-DDR3L-RS
-LPDDR3

The latter 3 is almost always used in 4th Gen Core(Haswell) Ultrabooks, and the lower the list, the lower the power. But the real jump is the LPDDR3. DDR3L-RS is merely standby power reduced version of DDR3L, about 40% lower power in standby. But with LPDDR3, voltage goes from 1.35 to 1.2V and standby power is 1/4th of DDR3L(actually the 1/7th is against regular DDR3 which isn't relevant).

You are talking about small gains at the overall system level, but its probably not a coincidence the only two systems using LPDDR3 are the two efficient ones. The trade off is that per capacity, the LPDDR3 modules cost more.

But since I'm getting a high end system, I prefer having high end components, whether single vs dual channel, or DDR3L vs LPDDR3. I don't think its really excusable saving on the part that's probably the cheapest main part in the entire system.

 

I don't prefer using the Modern/Metro UI except for cases like checking the weather. I find the counterparts to the legacy applications(like Skype) are defeatured. It does not help that the selections are poor and search engine itself was confusing for a while as well. I was looking at the app store and thinking: "Where the heck is the search button?" And later I tried search but it showed nothing. I found out that in search, I need to click on "Store", which I think is unintuitive. IMO, a better idea would have been to be a general search for everything, and just categorize the results out by where it found it(for example: local storage, USB storage, files, settings, Store, etc).

But I love touch, even on Clamshell mode with Desktop. I'm not bothered by the whole Ultrabook rocking when using touch(say clicking on a link) as I either have it on my lap on the sofa/bed/ground, and I found for me touch movements are dominated by scrolling, rather than clicking. I know some people don't like it on the Desktop, but I find it quite enjoyable, a faster, direct way of clicking on links compared to using a touchpad.

As for the XPS 11, the thin and light part is important with these convertibles. A whole point of a Tablet is portability, and much lighter and thinner device makes sense, which does not with the XPS 12. And its to be seen, but I see a potential with the keyboard as well. Reports say that the feedback, both haptic and audio is adjustable.

Benefits I can see with the XPS 11's keyboard:
-The keyboard isn't zero travel, its said to be 0.5mm. If the input pressure needed is really light, I might be ok with it, because there's some sort of travel. This time though, unlike with XPS 12, I'll wait a bit to see and read reviews and try in person
-It's a full keyboard, unlike touchscreen keyboards which needs switching between numbers and alphabet.
-It looks like it might be easier to clean as well, since dust can't get in between keys and you can simply wipe it off

 

I do wonder if placing a pre-order when it is available is smart..or just buy it launch day at BB or Amazon...