You are still enthusiastic about Thinkpads as you were a few years ago?

I post the following in another thread about any pre-Black Friday deal at Lenovo.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo/697181-lenovo-pre-black-friday-sale-really-deal.html.

I bought 7 Thinkpads in total in the past. I feel that I am not that enthusiastic about Thinkpads any more, but I have to say that many folks here are still very very helpful. Big thank-you to these people!!!

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I feel Lenovo sale is very different from that of IBM.

I have monitor the price of T530 at Barnes and Noble site daily over a month. The price is almost the same each day, just very small changes.The funny thing is that they constantly change coupon names. Appears that China does not have BF.

Any thoughts or comments?

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Yes! A Thinkpad for me was something unreachable. I've got one now (the X220) and it has completely lived up to my expectations. The best Laptop I ever had and I couldn't tell you what could be improved.

 

Yes and no. I would be lying to you if i say all of the ThinkPad remained the same as they were in the T60 series days. Personally for me T430 has become the R series of old, something i would buy if i can't afford the W530, T430s, X1 Carbon. Obviously, i am not too happy with the quality of the LCD above all else on many of the laptop, i can even live with ThinkPad using 6 rows of kb. But having said that i am excited by ThinkPad's price, now i can afford the machine more than ever in the history of owning ThinkPad.

I remember having a X31 that costed nearly 3500 dollars for a medium spec, now a X230 + IPS medium spec can be bought for nearly 800 dollars, i am sure that X230 isn't really 1/4 of the machine that the X31 were. I lament the demise of the T430 and R series, but for that i get more affordable ThinkPad, i guess that is the cost of change.

Also, you can not expect ThinkPad to remain the same and at the same time survive as a namesake in a ultra-competitive market environment where new competitor products are churned out every month or two. There is no market like the PC market, where fortunes are made and lost within a super short time frame.

 

Will sell off what I have immediately and get a T/W series with eGPU if they ever stick a IPS in either 14" or 15"

 

I want my X240t with 15W dual core SV i5, dual mSATA SSD slots instead of 2.5", 1080p 12.5" RGBLED IPS panel and maybe I will consider another Lenovo X series tablet. But the Helix and Twist? Eh.

 

Dream on . Computer don't sell unless you give them some superficial name.

 

I am actually looking forward to helix. It will not be my main notebook, but as a mobile notebook to run small scale applications and also as a pdf manager/e-reader.

 

Nope. Although I thought thinkpads were evolving well since when they switched to three digit model numbering, I became very disappointed once the new keyboard layout was revealed. I saw it coming, given how the 6-row keyboard was being included in more and more models, but it's still regrettable.

Lately, I've been thinking about getting a 15 inch retina display macbook. Lighter than some 14 inch laptops, with longer battery life, a quad core processor, an IPS display, still 16:10 ratio, a great touchpad. For the same computing power in a thinkpad, the W530 weighs close to 6 pounds, and I would have to carry that brick of a power adaptor and have a battery that sticks out the back. If future releases of windows continue in the direction of Windows 8, I would be better off switching to OSX. I would miss the trackpoint though.

 

Your X240t dream will be a dream. X230t line will br the last of X2x0t machine. It will be replaced with Helix. In fact X230t is not even shipping win 8, so i am guessing it would have a very short life and will soon be discontinued.

 

My thoughts exactly, apart from the fact that I'd use a far stronger term than "regrettable"...

I'll be more than happy to give a hand to anyone owning a pre-*30 series ThinkPad as long as I'm around, though...

 

There were external forces in play that pushed Lenovo from 7 rows to 6 rows.

 

Sorry, old friend, I'll have to disagree with you on this one.

We saw this debacle coming a few years ago, but were reassured that the "real" ThinkPads would not be affected.

Guess we were lied to, once again.

Like we were lied to about the "Windows" key. You know, the one that IBM felt no need to include on their keyboards.

About the FlexView screens.

About the 4:3 and subsequently 16:10 formats.

I'm sure you're catching my drift by now...

It's their business, and their policies. I've got no say in them, and can only vote with my wallet, which is fine.

But it's my intelligence that they've been insulting with feeble excuses for way too long...

 

A focus on revenue does that.

 

Well, the windows key is essential nowadays. I couldn't imagine a windows computer without one, since it's now the shortcut to launching any program or accessing any file.

I do understand the external force driving lenovo to the 6 row, and that is the 16:9 display. In the T420, the first 14 inch model with the 16:9 display, the bezel below the display is huge, a big black reminder of lost vertical real estate. But it was big because the 7 row keyboard and trackpoint mouse keys and touchpad and mouse keys all had to fit in the chassis. Sure with the T430, the bezel remains huge, but I bet with the following generation, lenovo will switch designs to a less deep computer case. The example is the X1 carbon, whose 6-row keyboard is different from all the other thinkpad 6-row keyboards.

If you look at it this way, market forces drove the 16:9 display, and the 16:9 display drove the 6 row layout. I can't imagine any other reason for it. A sinister 6-row conspiracy by all the keyboard manufacturers?

It seems like the switch away from the traditional layout will be permanent. If that's the case, maybe all there is to hope for is the return of the context menu key and grouping of the function keys.

I also sometimes wonder about the move to 16:9. I wonder about how it first started. I'm guessing that display makers offered the cheaper design to laptop makers, and the laptop makers decided that they could reduce their costs while marketing the new screens as HD. I always thought that the move to 16:9 would at least allow lenovo to source newer screens for thinkpads, and newer screens would have improved manufacturing processes for better viewing angles and contrast. We've seen some of that in the 15 inch sector and for the X220, but there's been no significant improvement for 14 inch thinkpads.

 

I'm actually quite excited about the Thinkpad Helix. The Samsung ATIV 700T isn't quite there in terms of what I would want from the tablet/laptop hybrid device, and I hope the Helix will provide a better overall package, with Thinkpad features (TrackPoint!).

 

I consider my X220i to be as good as any ThinkPad I've used. As always there's some stuff I think some stuff I'm very interested in like X230 or Yoga and some I'm not.

 

Okay, does anyone here have a Win 8 shipped ThinkPad? Do you notice any change in the logo design of Win shortcut key? Do you think it is something that the computer manufacturer did for fun or because it was something they had to do?

 

And what force it might be? The old 7 row keyboard even fits into the current series, it's unique to Lenovo (not like LCD panels), hardly very expensive to manufacture, does not require any R&D, and the only thing missing is a small BIOS switch for layout.

Lenovo could have supported the old 7 row as option, at least in some models (as they do support, for example, rarely used color sensor as option), they just choose not to.

 

That's the one key that never gets used even on my newer ThinkPads that have it. I've learned the computing (ThinkPadding...LOL) when it was nowhere to be find on IBM's machines, and am doing quite well without it. I do understand that it is essential for a vast number of users, though.

Well, the first 6-row so-called ThinkPads were the SL series, and quite a few of us oldtimers started screaming at Lenovo at the time and were reassured that no other series would have this blasphemy introduced to it. We all know how that went.

Look, I do understand the profit motivation. I just don't like the BS about it.

There were many manufacturers who used the 6-row format even in the 4:3 days...so I really don't think that one has a lot to do with the change to 16:10 and then 16;9, but it's just my opinion...

Honestly, 14" ThinkPads - regardless of the era and aspect ratio - never had great screens to begin with.

 

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@ajkula66, if screens were shipped with a general calibration profile, they would come across a lot better. Apple does this with every screen for example. With windows laptops, the screen invariably has a very strong blue color unless calibrated. A screen with a weak contrast ratio appears better if the color has been adjusted properly such that white looks white.

 

Well...you really can't expect Lenovo - who is sourcing panels from a plethora of suppliers - to take that route.

And why would they? The vast majority of their customers couldn't care less about the quality of the LCDs to begin with, otherwise Lenovo would've started offering semi-decent screens a long time ago in order to stay in business altogether...

 

Well they kept Flexview screens from IBM...until they realized most people wouldn't opt for them and no other manufacturer were offering them, so begins the trend of crappy screens with horrible viewing angles.

 

with occasional blue tint and super cool color temperature.

 

I guess I'll chime in here, though the W530 I've had for a week now is my first "Thinkpad."

I've been using computers regularly since the TRS-80 and the last 20 years or so have earned my bread and butter (and what I use to pay for them) with one. I manage linux servers, and design and develop web sites, and have been doing such using everything from oem desktops and laptops, to a couple of/or three desktops I built myself these past two decades.

That said, the W530 is the first computer I've bought that one might say is strictly designed for business apps, and I'm very pleased with my purchase, and the things that seem to be bothering others here haven't made similar impressions on me (yet). For instance, since I wasn't used to the older seven row keyboards that apparently were previously used, I've got no gripes about the six row layout. As for Windows 8, well, I've never upgraded any of my OS packages to a new kid on the block without waiting at least a year for them to work the bugs out of things, and will continue using Win 7 which I believe is stable (read: mature), and a great OS.

As for the screen, proper calibration takes care of that (I still use a Microtek scanner and Kodak 4x5 color calibration slide for that purpose), and when my laptop is home it's connected to an EIZO monitor, so the laptop screen really isn't an issue. The one thing I might eventually do is upgrade the Nvidia K2000M, but that's only if it looks like I'll need it for video down the road

Btw, if the thinkpads of today were as expensive as those of yore, like others here have already mentioned, I'm sure I would have opted for something else.

 

The x220 is my first Thinkpad as well after using Macs for two decades (at home). After a good year of use, I cannot be happier with my purchase. I have thrown out all my Mac gear now (which was extensive). Like you, if the Thinkpads were as expensive as the Thinkpads of yore, I would have opted elsewhere. I was looking to buy a w530, but the x220 with a 23" monitor makes one unnecessary for me. Regardless, I may have to get one now because my wife just bought an expensive fashion item for herself. It's only fair...

 

"Well, the windows key is essential nowadays. I couldn't imagine a windows computer without one, since it's now the shortcut to launching any program or accessing any file. "

I guess I've missed something as I never known what it's for and still don't.

Renee

 

The Windows key is used to access the Start Menu when the task bar is hidden. Not having a Windows key is not that big of a deal, as Ctrl+Esc is the keyboard shortcut for it.

 

I have become quite fond of the familiar black bento box aesthetics of the ThinkPad line. One plan I do have with one of my ThinkPads is I am thinking of selling my X200 and a T60 that is sitting in a box to finance an X220. I have weighed the pros-and-cons and feel the increase in battery life, LED IPS, familiar keyboard (non-chiclet), and more storage configs make the X220 the next step up in my scheme of things.

There are a couple of reasons why I keep ThinkPads. The wonderful community of users, relatively easy upgrades (on the ThinkPad-series), the trackpoint (although I like having both trackpoint and trackpad for flexibility), and the prompt replies I have had with the Atlanta division when I needed assistance with CRU parts.

I have looked at the HP business class line and may purchase one at some point in the future. Mainly just to switch things up and curiosity but for the 99% of motivation that remains I will stay with the Thinkpad line.

@windows key. I look at it like the trackpad. Instead of ThinkIng of it as a hindrance I have incorporated it into using shortcuts. Works out fine so far

 

If you don't run Windows, it's indeed useless. Otherwise, there are essential keyboard shortcuts (Win+R, Win+L, Win+D etc) and also some useful features that can't be accessed in any other way (like Windows + Left / Windows + Right arrow keys, especially handy if you have more than one monitor).

I have to reprogram right Alt to work as Windows key on keyboards that don't have it, major pain

 

WinKey combos are very useful in Windows. WinKey by itself brings up start search. Win+D is desktop, Win+E is explorer, Win+Shift+Num launches program Num pinned to taskbar, etc.

Not really. You can make keyboard shortcuts out of it. Or assign to some other key your keyboard is missing, e.g. compose.

 

^ my external keyboard shows how I feel about the windows key.