questionable build quality?

we are all still living with the legendary IBM thinkpads in our minds, lets move on...

 

This is true. Yes, I think QC has slipped a bit, and build tolerances have increased -- but I hardly think it's the sort of massive, catastrophic change that a lot of folks here seem to...

Yep. It was built entirely by Lenovo and under Lenovo's ownership of the brand. It, however, carries full IBM branding hence the reference to IBM.

 

I know but the T43p wasnt built in the US like it was implied in ur profile.

If anything it was US/Japan designed during the IBM days. Yet, even to this day, Lenovo Thinkpads are still US/Japan designed as far as we know. I guess the only difference is the branding and corporate steering then. So perhaps:

US-branded IBM Thinkpad T43p, Lenovo-build and branded ThinkPad X200...

 

^^^ Well, "the comforting glow of nostalgia may be warping some folks' memories," as ThinkRob said.

 

I think Dell latitude might have better built quality. At least when you look from outside. Latitudes are much more solid. Thinkpads always have flex here and there... But which one last longer, I can't comment. Latitudes have 3yr warranty as default though.

But I do like Thinkpads better. Same reason that apple fans buy Macs

 

Well 90% of all computers and its components pretty much are from China. The only thing that tops it is made in Japan laptops and you don't see very much of those anymore. Even my Sony Vaio is from China.

QC is QC regardless what country its from.

 

Shouldnt have to. The fact that a company is letting QC as well as material quality go in the crapper is not a good enough reason to forget an icon. What needs to happen is lenovo raise their quality and stop riding out the name. But sadly I doubt they will do so moving on is inevitable. Just hard for alot us to watch an icon die out due to money grubbing companies.

 

Actually that is not true according to the stats we keep in our company. Really depends on which ThinkPad you are talking about, which Dell, etc.

But so far the ThinkPads have continued to rule the roost on reliability.

 

i should be ok with x200s right? sl9400 is a lot slower than i5-480m in the x201.

but i mainly do office work on the laptop. occasionally virualbox ....

 

Reliability? ThinkPad Edge? ThinkPad SL?

As you noted (but ignored in your own claim), which specific ThinkPads? The one you're using?

 

Most weren't. Mine was.

Machines made for Lenovo and certain major US government contracts were assembled in the US. I paid a premium

 

^^^ Well, one (really mint) T60 14" was recently "rebuilt" in the US.

 

Yeah, but I built that one. My T43p was assembled for Lenovo in the US.

 

My T43p Flexview says "Manufactured in China" at the bottom. Should I feel inferior?

 

Nope. I really doubt there's much of a difference unless you consider one to be a "collector's item". Personally, I just got the machine that I did because I wanted a UXGA T43p with FlexView, and George (from the ThinkPads.com forum) had an offer that I liked.

I do suspect that the QC was a little more rigid on the machines destined for internal use, but I have absolutely no proof of this.

 

I got my hands on a SL510. It seems to have better build fit and finish than my IBM logoed Z61m with less flex in the plastic and more consistent panel gaps. Is this normal?

 

The real ThinkPads. T410 and W510 are two of our internal standards. They have been solid for us.

 

My office has been using ThinkPads for... well, a long time. (I recently saw what I believe were some 700-series machines being decommissioned...)

The general perception seems to be that the T4x/R5x series were solid. The T60s were solid. The T400/T500/W500s were a step down in terms of durability. The T410s and T510s are a massive improvement in build quality and durability. No word on longevity yet, but the folks I've asked seem to agree that the T410/T510 is a return to the design qualities that they're used to.

 

T410/T510 just looks newer and there is no IBM logo on it, that's a problem for some people.

 

There's no IBM logo on the T400/T500 either. The T61/X61/R61 were the last generation that could accommodate the IBM logo sticker even though Lenovo had license to use through 2010.

 

The ULV core 2 duo chips are more potent then most give credit. For those tasks you should be fine.

 

I have had my t61p for over three years and it has served me well. My only compliant would be that it runs a little warmer than my liking and that there are "imprints" on the screen from the red track button and the mouse buttons from pressure that was applied on the laptop while it was in my bag. I guess this could happen to any laptop, but I don't carry many heavy textbooks around w/ me.

I spilled some milk on it while eating cereal and it drained out the bottom. Much props for that!

 

I myself have few complaints about the design --that is if you count ThinkPad lines truly worthy of the name (W, X, T, and R-series) and not the stuff Lenovo is marketing off the ThinkPad name.

I think that we have a combination of issues. It's generally agreed upon here that quality-control has slipped, but that's only one issue. Lenovo's logistics (configure-order-assemble-ship) needs some work; we've all known people who have waited a month to get a ThinkPad after ordering one, even if it hasn't happened to us.

Lenovo's customer service and repairs process is also wildly inconsistent. The only reason I stuck with depot warranties was because I figured that in case I had an issue, I could convince them to send me parts as an FRU, and do the work myself (fortunately, Lenovo still makes the service manuals available online), since I have a fair amount of laptop repair experience. If I had been faced with no other choice than a depot repair though, I'd have upgraded my warranty on the spot; at least I'd be able to have the repair done onsite, under my supervision.

I've seen similar customer-service situations from different posters on the forum that got wildly different responses from Lenovo CSRs. The inconsistency makes it difficult to trust that I'd get good service if I needed it. It might happen; it might not.

In my case, both of my ThinkPads have been good units. I haven't had a need for repair, and I can do upgrades (like my T400 CPU or the wireless card on my SO's T61) fine on my own. However, the inconsistencies make it near-impossible for me to recommend a ThinkPad to someone who isn't a techie or a computer-enthusiast, because my reputation as an IT professional is on the line when I recommend gear to others. I don't trust Lenovo won't make a liar out of me if I praise their products.

I wish I could be more positive about a product that has worked well for me. If Lenovo developed consistency, predictability in their business practices, maybe I could.

I helped a friend get a Latitude E4200 ultralight from their outlet with a similar CPU. They work just fine. Since the E4200 had a 64GB SSD, it actually seemed prety blazing fast for what it was.

I would be surprised, considering the SL-series is a budget-line versus the Z-series (considered pro-level multimedia at the time it was built), but it's not impossible, just unusual.

 

I will get the x201 back this week. I can't wait any more. It's been sitting at the depot for over a week, so I asked them to ship it back.

I did receive a replacement keyboard from lenovo. so I will swap that in. and for the gap, I am thinking about some all-purpose glue.

don't know why, but I ordered a x200s off the outlet. Will probably return it...

 

Jor,
Where did you say the gap was? I really can't recommend gluing parts together to resolve a gap - typically if plastics aren't aligned properly there is a reason. I often find that palmrests and bezels aren't fitting right because the keyboard is not seated properly. I've seen cover lids with a bulge because a wire is out of the channel relief, etc. Usually, taking it apart and reassembling carefully will resolve most issues.

FWIW I think the X200s is a decent system.

ThinkRob,

Systems used internally are pulled off the line just like any that go to the public - no special extra QC, etc.

I joined the IBM PC division in 1993 and moved over to Lenovo in 2005 when the PC division was sold. Many of the same people are involved in ThinkPad now as were 10 years ago. Some models have been better than others, as is the case with everything - then and now.

I'm typing on a T43 that I keep at home, and it has been really solid - I've had it since 2006. I also have an X60 tablet that I've hauled around as my daily work system since 2007, and until this past week when I replaced the fan, I've really had no trouble with it. Both show some minor wear and tear from use - I've worn impressions in some of the keys from typing, but aside from that, both are solid.

It is really great to see people like yourself, who have a lot of ThinkPad experience sharing their long term perspective.

Best regards,

Mark

 

Mark,

Since you are an insider, you should know some of us that have used ThinkPads for a long time aren't real happy. Some of the models are pretty good but even the T410 has a screen with questionable quality. And many of us HATE the widescreen sizes and resolutions now.

Please improve the quality of the screens on the X, T and W lines. If you don't, you are getting ready to lose customers. I haven't thought about buying other brands in a long time but I am now.

Please send this feedback up the chain.

Looking forward to seeing the launch next week and the reviews. Good luck.

 

I am so disappointed with the depot service. I called technical support and was told to send it to depot for repair. Then, the depot asked for 350 to fix it, because it's no covered by warranty.

It is a new machine....

I post some pictures on page 2.

Maybe I can dissemble and reassemble by myself.

I love lenovo, but some policies just don't make sense to me.

x200s is nice. if I have money, I'll keep both.... but i don't have the extra dough...

 

Even today Mark, the T42 and T43 are examples of some of the best ThinkPads ever made.

We were given twenty T42s as a donation (I work in IT for education) by a business. They have no hinge play, despite being in constant use. The keyboards are still in perfect shape. In fact, if I could buy them used in bulk for a reasonable price, I would, because they beat the heck out of a $300 brand-new netbook any day of the week.

Heck, Anandtech did a legacy review on the T42 recently, reminding us all of just how good they really are.

IBM's ThinkPad T42 LCD: A Blast from the Past - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

The problem is that the depots aren't Lenovo --they are subcontractors.

That said, I think Lenovo should be placing some high expectations on those subcontractors for consistency in approach to repairs, and look into some sort of review process that evaluates user's experience with the depots in regards to repair (quality of repair, timeliness, customer service, etc.). Hopefully this is being done to give a clear picture of what overall results are. I know we hear mostly the negative here, but some of those negatives I've heard of have made me nervous.

 

Damn. Well there goes my theory. Either way, I love the fit and finish on my T43p, whatever the reason for its presence.

One of my coworkers is an ex-IBMer from the RTP area, and I recall he said the same when I asked him about the post-Lenovo PC division. He seemed to think that the teams involved, and not the brand, are what make the ThinkPads special. I agree.

 

The OP posted 3 pictures on page 2 of this thread.

Were you saying that as a Lenovo employee on behalf of Lenovo? Thank you for substantiating my expression "Lenovo's cavalier attitude toward the customers, especially those with problems." Do you honestly expect the (business) customers to take their laptops apart and resolve the issues themselves?

Why does the customer have to tighten loose screws in a "premium" T410s? Why does the customer have to fix palmrest squeaking/crackling and keyboard flex in a "premium" T510? Why does the customer have to fix loose-fitting wobbling battery and keyboard flex in a "premium" X201?

Would Lenovo also expect the customers to replace the mediocre displays with better ones?

People do not spend between $1000+ and $2000+ for DIY projects. They want quality tools that match the premium expenses.

Although I've owned/used various ThinkPads since a 600E in 1998, I do not contrast Lenovo with IBM -- nor with any other PC manufacturers. Lenovo problems are Lenovo problems.

 

Kaso, Mark has been one of the most helpful Lenovo employees end-users have ever known. When he speaks here, it is to try and give us help, and has nothing to do with the company's official position.

He's not in charge of their production line, so the "cavalier attitude" thing really is a step over the line. While I'm definitely one to give Lenovo criticism where it is deserved, all Mark is doing is trying to help out in a forum where, since people here are more technical than most, they may be able to resolve their problems with his help. No need to shoot the messenger, here.

 

Reseating the keyboard is some "help" that has already been recommended by someone of lesser stature! Also, the assumption that "people here are more technical than most" is not a useful basis of discourse.

I maintain that Lenovo, the company, has a cavalier attitude toward its customers.

 

Then the question becomes who's offering anything better? Not the Latitudes and Elitebooks I've seen. Those are ThinkPads direct competitors. Sure, there's the DreamColor 2, but who's dropping $3k on a notebook these days?

 

I have no problem with the screen. It's clear. not as vivid as those glossy ones, but not a big deal.

but did you see those mac pro screen? really nice

 

So you're saying he should keep his mouth shut and not help at all?

I suppose then you could blame Lenovo for having an unhelpful attitude. Of course, then the rest of us would lose a valuable resource.

As I said, this isn't a Lenovo.com forum. Mark could choose to offer help here, or stay entirely away, and Lenovo would tell you that his posting here does not constitute the company line.

 

As long as they at least come back to the standards of the t400 Ill be happy. My t400 has literally been tossed across a room while running and suffered zero damage. Is it as tough or awesomely built as previous thinkpads? Probably not. But for todays standards its a tank. As for the screen I never had an issue with my t400's screen. It does everything well and sure its not as bright or "vivid" as my WLED in the XPS, but its more then good enough for anything.

 

Good question. Unknown answer at the moment. But spring is nearly here and many new announcements this week and beyond.

Samsung is launching their Series 9 notebooks. New MacBook Pros on the way. New ThinkPad details this week. And I'm sure HP, Dell, ASUS, and others are on the way.

Can't wait to see the new goodies.

 

Based on past history, I think it's unlikely you'll see anything significantly better than what's being offered now, but I'd love to be proved wrong.

 

Kaso,

if i got a laptop that had build fit problems i'd not be happy either and would contact customer service. but to say that lenovo has a cavalier attitude is exaggerating more than a little.

speaking of exaggerating...

there's no way you could have been using a 600e in 1998, they weren't even out yet. better get your 'facts' straight.
.
.
.
lastly, i really don't get the continued reference by you and a few others about mediocre screens on the x200/1 series. if they were that bad, we'd see that mentioned in the reputable laptop reviews. it's time to stop the misinformation.

imo at worst, they're on the same level as other screens on the business laptops made by dell & hp and i personally rate them as more than decent quality, certainly very adequate for their price point and their product placement as business laptops.

 

I don't have any of the X series so I can't comment on the screens on them. The W510 FHD screen is pretty nice in my book.

The T series 1440x900 screens are ok. They fall down quite a bit due to the contrast ratio when you need to reduce the brightness at night. Compared to my T61p screens, they are much harder on the eyes.

They can be improved. We'll see if they are in the next round. At least IPS screens are getting more attention now with the slate devices. Maybe that will help the business class notebook models.

 

today is my last day in the 21-day period.

i don't want to work... so i am calling technical support for the last time. hopefully, they can issue an exchange or have it fixed for free...

 

Here you go. Poor screen quality isn't a huge deal in the 12" X-series though with the availability of the tablets which are excellent. It was the X301 and 14" T-series that were hit badly.

About as reputable as it gets:

Review Lenovo ThinkPad X201 Notebook - Notebookcheck.net Reviews

 

It would be a couple years before major manufacturer start using ips screen on their laptop, since Apple are sucking the suppliers dry with their demand. However the 15 inch laptop for Lenovo is getting way to heavy and thick. I saw some in real life on my campus, let just say that I would not want to carry that anywhere. They need to make a more t-series more slim, just as durable; leave the thick and heavy to the W series.

 

Other than the FlexViews, none of ThinkPad screens of yesteryear were all that great. You could probably argue some of the newer screens are better because they're LED and offer some more battery life, and they're brighter. The Latitudes and Elitebooks, other than the DreamColor 2 of course, aren't any better either.

 

True that. Mark really is a gem of that company, as without his help before on a technical issue with my notebook, I would have lost a lot of brand loyalty to thinkpads due to the poor service by tech support. At the minimum, he secured lenovo a future sale from me due to restored confidence, even though he is not in sales.

 

Lenovo agreed to fix it for free.

I send it back again. to NC not GA.

We'll see.

 

OK...

They had me shipped my machine back to NC.

A guy left me his number and email. No case number provided.

I sent it in last Wednesday. No updates so far. I called and emailed. No response.

What is going on with Lenovo? You call this customer service??

 

Thats why I hate having to send anything in cause you never know how long it will take to fix, or how competent the techs are at fixing it.

I had a few dead pixels before (warrents exchange as technically classified as bad screen) that I decided not send it in to fix it because of such worries.

 

i can understand your frustration but it's only been at lenovo for one or two days depending on how it was shipped (overnight or 2-day).   it's possible that other systems are being repaired and that yours hasn't been queued yet.   it's also monday - one of the two busiest days at most people's jobs.

 

maybe you are right.

the guy called me finally. said they started working on it.